High time I gave back more to the Forum. I have got so much from here, especially Mary Mac! Thanks Mary. I got a PM from "N***" who asked about my electrical system. So I thought I try and post what I got that might help others. I'll start with my diagram in this post and then see how big a file the Forum will let me add. I keep everything in Evernote (hate it, but thats what I started using) and the best way to get my Evernote notes into this Forum would be via HTML, and the HTML files are not that big - a few hundred kB - but the images and embedded file links end up creating huge associated folders (up to 100MB). I dont want to create web pages and sites and Dropbox stuff that will just go away. So we'll see. The diagram isn't unique to my Cal 2-34, but in a follow-up I'll try and post pictures to show where everything goes.
Mike on EOS
Cal 34 Electricals
Very interesting. One question though. It looks like you have a 12V/12V converter. I have one as well to keep instrument voltage regulated. But it looks like the output is connected to the start battery output. That I don't understand.
Allen
Allen
Hi Allen: I too live in Palo Alto. In Barron Park! I’ll answer your question best I can and add some things that I went through, this isn’t particularly relevant to a Cal 34 but some may be interested. I still have to post my installation details and I’m working on it.
Allen said >> It looks like you have a 12V/12V converter. I have one as well to keep instrument voltage regulated. But it looks like the output is connected to the start battery output. That I don't understand.
1. Yes, I have a Victron non-isolated (though isolated would work too) Orion 12-12/30 12V to 12V at 30A battery-to-battery charger [1, 2, 3, 5]. There are a number of ways to handle charging both starter and main batteries and I just chose battery-to-battery charger. Lots of arguments about this issue, which battery to connect to the alternator, how to wire batteries and switch(es). I learned a lot about all this during my trip back from Hawaii when I had alternator & regulator problems, I may get into that on this thread, we’ll see.
2. I have had problems with my NMEA 2k instruments and spikes (particularly the Airmar DSTs built during COVID when they changed sourcing on a key power component due to supply chain issues - and now a well-known problem with these DSTs). Solution is to use something like an Victron Orion but you dont need 30A, you can use the 9A [6].
3. There were a few considerations for the battery-to-battery charger: (a) My Victron MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN only charges at 4A on the secondary charger. Thats not quite enough for me to charge the Relion 50Ah lithium starter. (b) I used to use a Sterling charger [4], Sterling makes great products, fantastic support from the designer in the UK but no short-circuit protection and I accidentally shorted it offshore and it was a nightmare. The Victron chargers are short-circuit protected. (I’ll come back to wiring and “what I learned about ABYC, what’s not in ABYC, how I screwed up, what I do now” in a later post if anyone is interested, it did affect my layout on my Cal 34).
[1] https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1 ... Manual.pdf Page 10 Schematic showing battery-to-battery charger
[2] https://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/basic ... -chargers/ The Basics of DC-to-DC Marine Battery Chargers
[3] https://youtu.be/RXyZKbUTJCI?t=112 PKYS How to Charge a Lithium Battery House Bank and an AGM Starter Battery at the Same Time?
[4] https://sterling-power.com/collections/ ... y-chargers and https://sterling-power.com/products/201 ... =978775683 Sterling battery chargers
[5] https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... pdf-en.pdf Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Non-Isolated See Page 7 Fig. 2 Typical connection setup as charger
[6] https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... 0W-EN-.pdf Orion DC-DC converters. See Orion-Tr 12/12-9 (110 W)
Allen said >> It looks like you have a 12V/12V converter. I have one as well to keep instrument voltage regulated. But it looks like the output is connected to the start battery output. That I don't understand.
1. Yes, I have a Victron non-isolated (though isolated would work too) Orion 12-12/30 12V to 12V at 30A battery-to-battery charger [1, 2, 3, 5]. There are a number of ways to handle charging both starter and main batteries and I just chose battery-to-battery charger. Lots of arguments about this issue, which battery to connect to the alternator, how to wire batteries and switch(es). I learned a lot about all this during my trip back from Hawaii when I had alternator & regulator problems, I may get into that on this thread, we’ll see.
2. I have had problems with my NMEA 2k instruments and spikes (particularly the Airmar DSTs built during COVID when they changed sourcing on a key power component due to supply chain issues - and now a well-known problem with these DSTs). Solution is to use something like an Victron Orion but you dont need 30A, you can use the 9A [6].
3. There were a few considerations for the battery-to-battery charger: (a) My Victron MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN only charges at 4A on the secondary charger. Thats not quite enough for me to charge the Relion 50Ah lithium starter. (b) I used to use a Sterling charger [4], Sterling makes great products, fantastic support from the designer in the UK but no short-circuit protection and I accidentally shorted it offshore and it was a nightmare. The Victron chargers are short-circuit protected. (I’ll come back to wiring and “what I learned about ABYC, what’s not in ABYC, how I screwed up, what I do now” in a later post if anyone is interested, it did affect my layout on my Cal 34).
[1] https://www.renogy.com/content/RNG-DCC1 ... Manual.pdf Page 10 Schematic showing battery-to-battery charger
[2] https://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/basic ... -chargers/ The Basics of DC-to-DC Marine Battery Chargers
[3] https://youtu.be/RXyZKbUTJCI?t=112 PKYS How to Charge a Lithium Battery House Bank and an AGM Starter Battery at the Same Time?
[4] https://sterling-power.com/collections/ ... y-chargers and https://sterling-power.com/products/201 ... =978775683 Sterling battery chargers
[5] https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... pdf-en.pdf Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Non-Isolated See Page 7 Fig. 2 Typical connection setup as charger
[6] https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... 0W-EN-.pdf Orion DC-DC converters. See Orion-Tr 12/12-9 (110 W)
Here's some details of my Cal 2-34 installation. Not saying this is the best way to do things or even the best way for my boat. There are surely a few things I would do differently now.
Some pictures of EOS before I did the re-fit for SHTP are here: https://www.dwaynenewton.com/Sailing-Vessel-EON/ and these show some of the electrical stuff. Thanks to my boat neighbor Dwayne for these.
Shown below.
1. Electrical panel is a standard Catalina. https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by- ... -x-19quot/ Everything electrical went over the custom chart table which was built in the port quarter berth. The quarter berth holds the fuel tank (moved from behind the engine to give better access), a Seaward water heater (never use it). All the VHF, AIS (x2, Class B and Class A), antenna splitter, MFD, emergency instrument power etc. is here to above the chart table. Victron battery monitor, fuel gauge, USB outlets. It’s very tight. I put thumbscrew on the panel so I can pull it out completely.
2. The 50Ah and 300Ah Relion lithium batteries are in a locker under the bench settee. It’s a tight fit along with all the breakers and fuses. I dont think any other chemistry would fit. Some breakers (the windlass and alternator master disconnect are outside the locker and you have to follow ABYC for these). One practical piece of advice. I didn’t seal the ends of the platforms that hold the batteries level. I dropped a nut and it rolled under the platform. Cant get it out. It makes a really annoying noise offshore. Turns out thats a big deal when you are listening for chafe, mast pumping etc.
3. Fridge wiring was tricky. Have to feed it back, then across the engine compartment and all the way along the starboard side.
4. AC outlets at chart table, here at location 4, over the sink, in the forward cabin, under the bench settee. This location was the toughest.
5. All outside instruments goes on the bimini: satellite, Airmar WeatherStation, active radar reflector, GPS (x2), spare VHF, AIS antenna
6. Lewmar windlass 70A wiring threads all the way from aft along the port side in the various locker compartments. Nightmare.
7. Secondary instrument section around the Airmar DST. I have an Antisense terminator here so I can monitor the NMEA power injection.
8. Mast lights. Installing a separate Blue Sea switch box here saved me 6 breakers on the main electrical panel. The wood trim comes off fairly easily on my Cal 2-34.
9. Water pump for the two Nauta tanks under the forward better. another nightmare route.
10. Electricals under the sink. There’s a Shurflo deck wash pump here.
11. Electricals in the engine bay. Balmar regulator and Sterling APD.
Mike
Some pictures of EOS before I did the re-fit for SHTP are here: https://www.dwaynenewton.com/Sailing-Vessel-EON/ and these show some of the electrical stuff. Thanks to my boat neighbor Dwayne for these.
Shown below.
1. Electrical panel is a standard Catalina. https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by- ... -x-19quot/ Everything electrical went over the custom chart table which was built in the port quarter berth. The quarter berth holds the fuel tank (moved from behind the engine to give better access), a Seaward water heater (never use it). All the VHF, AIS (x2, Class B and Class A), antenna splitter, MFD, emergency instrument power etc. is here to above the chart table. Victron battery monitor, fuel gauge, USB outlets. It’s very tight. I put thumbscrew on the panel so I can pull it out completely.
2. The 50Ah and 300Ah Relion lithium batteries are in a locker under the bench settee. It’s a tight fit along with all the breakers and fuses. I dont think any other chemistry would fit. Some breakers (the windlass and alternator master disconnect are outside the locker and you have to follow ABYC for these). One practical piece of advice. I didn’t seal the ends of the platforms that hold the batteries level. I dropped a nut and it rolled under the platform. Cant get it out. It makes a really annoying noise offshore. Turns out thats a big deal when you are listening for chafe, mast pumping etc.
3. Fridge wiring was tricky. Have to feed it back, then across the engine compartment and all the way along the starboard side.
4. AC outlets at chart table, here at location 4, over the sink, in the forward cabin, under the bench settee. This location was the toughest.
5. All outside instruments goes on the bimini: satellite, Airmar WeatherStation, active radar reflector, GPS (x2), spare VHF, AIS antenna
6. Lewmar windlass 70A wiring threads all the way from aft along the port side in the various locker compartments. Nightmare.
7. Secondary instrument section around the Airmar DST. I have an Antisense terminator here so I can monitor the NMEA power injection.
8. Mast lights. Installing a separate Blue Sea switch box here saved me 6 breakers on the main electrical panel. The wood trim comes off fairly easily on my Cal 2-34.
9. Water pump for the two Nauta tanks under the forward better. another nightmare route.
10. Electricals under the sink. There’s a Shurflo deck wash pump here.
11. Electricals in the engine bay. Balmar regulator and Sterling APD.
Mike
- Attachments
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- Cal 2-34 EOS electrical layout.jpeg (67.92 KiB) Viewed 187 times
Thanks for the clarification. Just amazing. Your boat looks wonderful. Looks like you are on dock 6. I am on dock 3. About the only thing our boats have in common is I have a 12V to 12V converter but now that you explain yours, they are not even in common. Thanks for the detailed explination.
Allen
Allen
I went by your boat today. I was there because of an electrical problem on my boat (see -- my reply is on topic). My boat sent me an email saying the pump wasn't working. I figured with an old wood boat I should go see what was going on. After checking fuses and voltages I found something I have never seen before. The butt splice crimp connector, which is marine grade with heat shrink and all that, was an open circuit. I replaced it and then walked over to dock 6 to look at your boat.
I was impressed. You boat is really "tricked out". You have every system I can think of and several I have never seen. From your fold up mast climbing steps to your solar panels, to winches on the cabin top sides. I could ask 100 questions but I will just ask one.
I noticed a fair amount of mountain climbing gear but in particular four Ropeman 1 ascenders. Two are on eyes at the front of the jib track and two are up at the bow. They are even color coded port-starboard no less. My question is, what do you use them for?
As you may know if you follow my website, I use Ropeman 1 ascenders to climb my mast and think highly of them. But I have never thought of using them on the rigging. The only thing I can think of is that you use them to secure a dingy on the bow.
Allen
Papoose
L-36 #5
L-36.com
I was impressed. You boat is really "tricked out". You have every system I can think of and several I have never seen. From your fold up mast climbing steps to your solar panels, to winches on the cabin top sides. I could ask 100 questions but I will just ask one.
I noticed a fair amount of mountain climbing gear but in particular four Ropeman 1 ascenders. Two are on eyes at the front of the jib track and two are up at the bow. They are even color coded port-starboard no less. My question is, what do you use them for?
As you may know if you follow my website, I use Ropeman 1 ascenders to climb my mast and think highly of them. But I have never thought of using them on the rigging. The only thing I can think of is that you use them to secure a dingy on the bow.
Allen
Papoose
L-36 #5
L-36.com
Hi Allen: sorry I missed you this time around but keep coming by. I am working on CAD for an alternator bracket at home. I have a single foot alternator right now and I think a dual foot might be better. Its turning into quite a project (as it always does). I will try and keep this thread somewhat to electrical, but you asked about some rigging and I guess others may be interested too
>> I noticed a fair amount of mountain climbing gear but in particular four Ropeman 1 ascenders. Two are on eyes at the front of the jib track and two are up at the bow. They are even color coded port-starboard no less. My question is, what do you use them for?
You were knowledgeable enough to notice these were (Wild Country) Ropeman 1's and not 2's. So I'll start with the fact that I found the 1's with ridges are tough on Kermantle but not as bad as the teeth on the 2's.
I use the Ropemans at the bow for rigging twin headsails. I used this rig on the way to Hawaii in the SHTP race. Twin headsails allowed me to run downwind in the middle part of the race and furl in the squalls overnight. I took a different more direct (and slower!!) course than everyone else. I dont know if it was just me but I had three or four heavy squalls every night for over a week. It was exhausting but with my limited skills I know I couldn't have handled a spinnaker. I don't know how everyone else managed a spinnaker. I can furl the headsails together from the cockpit and I was doing it so often I learned to do it without light just by feel, and towards the end even from inside.
I use a two-part halyard system with the Ropemans on the furler drum. I use identical headsails. The ones I use most are 120% genoas. I have a heavy duty twin-groove Schaefer furler. I hoist a Schaefer Series 7 twin block on the upper swivel. Twin halyards run through that block. Thats the first key. Now I can hoist and strike each headsail independently of the other, but they furl together. The main part of the thin Dyneema jib halyards go up to the double block on the top swivel and down to the Ropemans. The main part of the two jib halyards each terminate in an eye loop. I can attach the rest of a jib halyard as a tail to the eye with a soft shackle. Both the eyes and the shackle can pass through the Ropemans. Thats the second key. I lower a headsail by attaching the tail, let the eye and shackle run through the Ropeman. Hoisting is the reverse, the eye and shackle runs back through the Ropeman, sweat the halyard using either the deck or mast winch with the Ropemans acting like a tiny clutch and a cleat at the same time, and then I can detach the halyard tail. This way you dont have 40 ft of halyard (one for each sail) to hide with sails hoisted. The whole point is I can do all this (two sails up and down) by myself from one spot. The two Ropemans you saw are attached to the drum clew tang with Hammerlock couplings like these https://www.go2marine.com/asano-5-8-sta ... hammerlock These are used on fishing boats to attach the auto shackles to purse ring. You can't weld a second clew tang on the drum, much as I would have liked to, because of the Torlon bearings. The Schaefer gear is so over-engineered it handled twin sails just fine.
The Ropemans midship you saw are on the forward track. I have three tracks on each side. The forward are for jib and storm jib. Mid for genoas. The rear for spinnaker, backstays, and odds and ends. These midship Ropemans are for the pole guys. I fly the headsails on twin telescoping Forespar poles. I run the fore and after guys back to tracked Ropemans and this allows me to set and strike the poles from one spot with fore guy in one hand, after guy in the other hand and topper in my third hand (!). I can use either the deck or mast winches if I need to depending on how scared I am (thats why I have 8 winches). Then the Ropemans act just like micro clutches. The guy anchoring locations are key and thats why the Ropemans are on the track. I dont know anyone else that uses this double-block, double-split-halyard twin-headsail system but it worked great for me. The heavy duty twin-groove Schaefer furler was the key. Thanks Fred and Steve. The only disadvantage is the number of lines. I run 2 sheets on each side to each of two clews (so thats 8 lines, and thats another story for another time and another post), two spare sheets (2 lines), there are 2 guys, fore and aft, each side (4 lines), pole topper on each side (2 lines), a brake on each side (2 lines), a preventer each side (2 lines), and a furler line, which means up to 21 lines plus mainsail controls (halyard and furler), some spinnaker lines and spare halyards. It's not any worse than flying a symmetric spinnaker with two poles though (which some of the other SHTP folks did, who are way better sailors than me). The twin headsails do work without poles and both can be used overlapping each other on one side, so thats an added bonus for me over a spinnaker (though clearly its not as fast).
The aluminum climbing gear holds up pretty well. I had one Ropeman spring fail. The climbing gear is not going to last the 20+ years that the Schaefer stainless blocks will last though.
Hope to see you on Dock 6!
Mike on EOS
>> I noticed a fair amount of mountain climbing gear but in particular four Ropeman 1 ascenders. Two are on eyes at the front of the jib track and two are up at the bow. They are even color coded port-starboard no less. My question is, what do you use them for?
You were knowledgeable enough to notice these were (Wild Country) Ropeman 1's and not 2's. So I'll start with the fact that I found the 1's with ridges are tough on Kermantle but not as bad as the teeth on the 2's.
I use the Ropemans at the bow for rigging twin headsails. I used this rig on the way to Hawaii in the SHTP race. Twin headsails allowed me to run downwind in the middle part of the race and furl in the squalls overnight. I took a different more direct (and slower!!) course than everyone else. I dont know if it was just me but I had three or four heavy squalls every night for over a week. It was exhausting but with my limited skills I know I couldn't have handled a spinnaker. I don't know how everyone else managed a spinnaker. I can furl the headsails together from the cockpit and I was doing it so often I learned to do it without light just by feel, and towards the end even from inside.
I use a two-part halyard system with the Ropemans on the furler drum. I use identical headsails. The ones I use most are 120% genoas. I have a heavy duty twin-groove Schaefer furler. I hoist a Schaefer Series 7 twin block on the upper swivel. Twin halyards run through that block. Thats the first key. Now I can hoist and strike each headsail independently of the other, but they furl together. The main part of the thin Dyneema jib halyards go up to the double block on the top swivel and down to the Ropemans. The main part of the two jib halyards each terminate in an eye loop. I can attach the rest of a jib halyard as a tail to the eye with a soft shackle. Both the eyes and the shackle can pass through the Ropemans. Thats the second key. I lower a headsail by attaching the tail, let the eye and shackle run through the Ropeman. Hoisting is the reverse, the eye and shackle runs back through the Ropeman, sweat the halyard using either the deck or mast winch with the Ropemans acting like a tiny clutch and a cleat at the same time, and then I can detach the halyard tail. This way you dont have 40 ft of halyard (one for each sail) to hide with sails hoisted. The whole point is I can do all this (two sails up and down) by myself from one spot. The two Ropemans you saw are attached to the drum clew tang with Hammerlock couplings like these https://www.go2marine.com/asano-5-8-sta ... hammerlock These are used on fishing boats to attach the auto shackles to purse ring. You can't weld a second clew tang on the drum, much as I would have liked to, because of the Torlon bearings. The Schaefer gear is so over-engineered it handled twin sails just fine.
The Ropemans midship you saw are on the forward track. I have three tracks on each side. The forward are for jib and storm jib. Mid for genoas. The rear for spinnaker, backstays, and odds and ends. These midship Ropemans are for the pole guys. I fly the headsails on twin telescoping Forespar poles. I run the fore and after guys back to tracked Ropemans and this allows me to set and strike the poles from one spot with fore guy in one hand, after guy in the other hand and topper in my third hand (!). I can use either the deck or mast winches if I need to depending on how scared I am (thats why I have 8 winches). Then the Ropemans act just like micro clutches. The guy anchoring locations are key and thats why the Ropemans are on the track. I dont know anyone else that uses this double-block, double-split-halyard twin-headsail system but it worked great for me. The heavy duty twin-groove Schaefer furler was the key. Thanks Fred and Steve. The only disadvantage is the number of lines. I run 2 sheets on each side to each of two clews (so thats 8 lines, and thats another story for another time and another post), two spare sheets (2 lines), there are 2 guys, fore and aft, each side (4 lines), pole topper on each side (2 lines), a brake on each side (2 lines), a preventer each side (2 lines), and a furler line, which means up to 21 lines plus mainsail controls (halyard and furler), some spinnaker lines and spare halyards. It's not any worse than flying a symmetric spinnaker with two poles though (which some of the other SHTP folks did, who are way better sailors than me). The twin headsails do work without poles and both can be used overlapping each other on one side, so thats an added bonus for me over a spinnaker (though clearly its not as fast).
The aluminum climbing gear holds up pretty well. I had one Ropeman spring fail. The climbing gear is not going to last the 20+ years that the Schaefer stainless blocks will last though.
Hope to see you on Dock 6!
Mike on EOS
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