Cal 25 jib questions

First, let me apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge. This is the first boat I've owned and the vast majority of my sailing experience is in dinghies. My Cal 25 doesn't seem to point too well. The jibs are all pretty blown out, so I'm hoping that's the problem. FWIW, the main is new and seems to always look like a perfect airfoil shape no matter what the wind is doing. I'm really impressed by that. Q1: How much does jib quality help sailing up wind? I know it's probably a lot, but how much? 3-5 degrees upwind? Better? Not that good? Q2: Are Cal 25s supposed to point reasonably well? I try to tack 90-degrees and I always seem to be pinching. I like going fast, but racing probably isn't my top priority. I'll probably be sailing short-handed much of the time, so I'm curious about self-tacking jibs. In addition, anyone who sails in the esturary between Oakland and Alameda knows there's a long sail in a relatively narrow channel that's nearly always to weather before you reach the Bay, so pointing well is really nice. It seems the overwhelming majority of new jibs are roller furling and the smallest I typically see is 135%. I like the idea of roller-furling for quick down-sizing of the jib in the tumultuous winds of the SF Bay. I worry that a down-sized (partially furled) 135% jib won't be nearly as efficient as a hank-on 100% jib. Like I said, pointing well is pretty important. Q3: How much does one lose in efficiency of a 135% jib furled down to 100% vs. a hank-on 100% jib? I'm intrigued by Hoytt jib beams. Any thoughts of putting one on a Cal 25? Q4: Are there any good or recommended self-tacking jib rigs for the Cal 25? Lastly, Q5: In a self-tacking rig, does the balance between a 100% hank-on and a 135% roller-furler shift at all? How so? Many thanks in advance for any and all information in this regard. I'm not rushing out to do anything right now, but I spend a fair amount of time thinking, reading, shopping, and thinking some more about this. Thanks again! Jim Ivey Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> Law Offices of James D. Ivey

Jim... Charlie Husar is "the sum of all Cal-25 knowledge", but I'll do a little speculating regarding your boat. 1. A good headsail is a pleasure unto itself. 2. For "The Bay" (what we west-coasters know to mean San Francisco), a 100% sail on a Cal-type boat would be my first choice. 3. Assuming the fore-deck could be properly reinforced, the Hoyt-type jib boom would seem like an ideal solution, in that it keeps constant leach tension and affords the easy ability to "wing it out" when sailing short handed down-wind. The 100% size will offer much closer sheeting angles that you can ever get with the overlapping headsails. We've found this to be a clear advantage on the 40 when the true wind speed gets to the 14-16 knot range. The late-and-great Carl Schumacher used them on his Alerion 28's. I've never used one, but they must be great for the short-tacking you mentioned. 4. I don't much like roller furling to achieve a different size sail. My current thinking is that early generation Cal's can do just fine with a 155 for the light days, and a 100 for the breezier stuff. There is no way to make a decent 100 out of a 135 or 155. 4. Your dinghy experience is showing through, as evidenced by the quality of your questions. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: James D. Ivey<mailto:ji… [at] iveylaw.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 jib questions First, let me apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge. This is the first boat I've owned and the vast majority of my sailing experience is in dinghies. My Cal 25 doesn't seem to point too well. The jibs are all pretty blown out, so I'm hoping that's the problem. FWIW, the main is new and seems to always look like a perfect airfoil shape no matter what the wind is doing. I'm really impressed by that. Q1: How much does jib quality help sailing up wind? I know it's probably a lot, but how much? 3-5 degrees upwind? Better? Not that good? Q2: Are Cal 25s supposed to point reasonably well? I try to tack 90-degrees and I always seem to be pinching. I like going fast, but racing probably isn't my top priority. I'll probably be sailing short-handed much of the time, so I'm curious about self-tacking jibs. In addition, anyone who sails in the esturary between Oakland and Alameda knows there's a long sail in a relatively narrow channel that's nearly always to weather before you reach the Bay, so pointing well is really nice. It seems the overwhelming majority of new jibs are roller furling and the smallest I typically see is 135%. I like the idea of roller-furling for quick down-sizing of the jib in the tumultuous winds of the SF Bay. I worry that a down-sized (partially furled) 135% jib won't be nearly as efficient as a hank-on 100% jib. Like I said, pointing well is pretty important. Q3: How much does one lose in efficiency of a 135% jib furled down to 100% vs. a hank-on 100% jib? I'm intrigued by Hoytt jib beams. Any thoughts of putting one on a Cal 25? Q4: Are there any good or recommended self-tacking jib rigs for the Cal 25? Lastly, Q5: In a self-tacking rig, does the balance between a 100% hank-on and a 135% roller-furler shift at all? How so? Many thanks in advance for any and all information in this regard. I'm not rushing out to do anything right now, but I spend a fair amount of time thinking, reading, shopping, and thinking some more about this. Thanks again! Jim Ivey Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com<mailto:ji… [at] iveylaw.com>> Law Offices of James D. Ivey SPONSORED LINKS Boating sailing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Boating+sailing&w1=Boating+sailing&w2=Sailing+boat&w3=Sailing&w4=Boating&c=4&s=65&.sig=KgsPLsahA8AB__qRyAt_XQ> Sailing boat<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sailing+boat&w1=Boating+sailing&w2=Sailing+boat&w3=Sailing&w4=Boating&c=4&s=65&.sig=oZUJLnrR0FEbvZ5o13Ffaw> Sailing<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sailing&w1=Boating+sailing&w2=Sailing+boat&w3=Sailing&w4=Boating&c=4&s=65&.sig=eGOXnwatS3x0LYN3XxVdNA> Boating<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Boating&w1=Boating+sailing&w2=Sailing+boat&w3=Sailing&w4=Boating&c=4&s=65&.sig=yMCAyUrqzhoqLD5Ydiy-Rg> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "Cal_Boats<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats>" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi James, The jib makes a heck of a difference in pointing ability and boat speed. I just replaced my AP 150 and main. The old jib did ok, but I noticed the other Cals were outpointing me by at least 5 degrees. Now with a 1 month old Mylar AP 150 by North Sails, the boat is pointing and accelerating much better. The new main helps too, I'm sure, but my genoa was the oldest sail on the boat at about 12 years of age. In sum, yes, the shape/age of the headsail make a big difference. I don't know enough about jib booms or self tacking systems to give any useful advice, but I can say with a little confidence that roller furling systems aren't as efficient as hanked on sails when partially reefed. You're asking one sail to fill many needs, and the cut of the sail has to be generic enough to handle all types of situations whether fully extended as a 150%, partially furled as a 130%, 100%, etc. Again, this isn't my area of knowledge, as I have all hanked on sails, but I do recall the roller furling system on my uncles Ericson. It just seemed that when partially furled, the sail wasn't nealy as efficient as when fully deployed. Perhaps others with roller furling systems could shed more light on the subject. Cheers, Scott S. Cal 25 #1651 Indefatigable Annapolis, MD ----- Original Message ----- From: James D. Ivey To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 jib questions First, let me apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge. This is the first boat I've owned and the vast majority of my sailing experience is in dinghies. My Cal 25 doesn't seem to point too well. The jibs are all pretty blown out, so I'm hoping that's the problem. FWIW, the main is new and seems to always look like a perfect airfoil shape no matter what the wind is doing. I'm really impressed by that. Q1: How much does jib quality help sailing up wind? I know it's probably a lot, but how much? 3-5 degrees upwind? Better? Not that good? Q2: Are Cal 25s supposed to point reasonably well? I try to tack 90-degrees and I always seem to be pinching. I like going fast, but racing probably isn't my top priority. I'll probably be sailing short-handed much of the time, so I'm curious about self-tacking jibs. In addition, anyone who sails in the esturary between Oakland and Alameda knows there's a long sail in a relatively narrow channel that's nearly always to weather before you reach the Bay, so pointing well is really nice. It seems the overwhelming majority of new jibs are roller furling and the smallest I typically see is 135%. I like the idea of roller-furling for quick down-sizing of the jib in the tumultuous winds of the SF Bay. I worry that a down-sized (partially furled) 135% jib won't be nearly as efficient as a hank-on 100% jib. Like I said, pointing well is pretty important. Q3: How much does one lose in efficiency of a 135% jib furled down to 100% vs. a hank-on 100% jib? I'm intrigued by Hoytt jib beams. Any thoughts of putting one on a Cal 25? Q4: Are there any good or recommended self-tacking jib rigs for the Cal 25? Lastly, Q5: In a self-tacking rig, does the balance between a 100% hank-on and a 135% roller-furler shift at all? How so? Many thanks in advance for any and all information in this regard. I'm not rushing out to do anything right now, but I spend a fair amount of time thinking, reading, shopping, and thinking some more about this. Thanks again! Jim Ivey Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> Law Offices of James D. Ivey SPONSORED LINKS Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks to Fin and Scott for their thoughts. And I'll watch for and appreciate any other thoughts on the topic. I have several months to think about it. It's more or less as I suspected. I wonder if there's a way to back the jib in a Hoyt boom. I was reading about rescue maneuvers in last month's Sailing magazine, and many used a backed jib at one point or another. Other than that, I think I'll be dreaming of a Hoyt-style jib boom (less than $700 in one source). > 4. Your dinghy experience is showing through, as evidenced by the > quality of your questions. Thanks. I was reading in this month's Sailing magazine about a designer that learned in dinghies and is known for coming too close to other boats, docks, etc. I get a lot of angry stares in the estuary (at just about anything closer than 2 boat lengths), so maybe I do the same thing. I don't get nervous until a little closer than one boat length. One captain looked like he was trying to shoot me with his hand-held horn. My apologies if I've done this to anyone on the list. I don't do that anymore. If and when I sort out my pointing issue and perhaps ease my tacking, I won't be so reluctant to tack sooner. Thanks again! Jim Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> Law Offices of James D. Ivey

Hi, Jim - The original Cal rigger for the Cal 25 is Steve Seals. He runs a Cal rigging and spar shop in Alameda. You can reach him in Alameda at (510) 521-7730 and if anyone can give you information on using a Hoyt jib boom, Steve can. He is a great sailor (sails a Wylie 30) and is a generally good guy. His rigging shop is in his back yard and he knows all the sailmakers in the Bay Area pretty well. Another option is to ask Steve take a look at your sail inventory and perhaps take a foresail over to Rui at Rooster Sails and have him cut it flatter for you. Rui is really good at getting performance out of sails that are still in reasonable condition. Another nice guy. Both Seals Spars and Rooster Sails are on the web. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James D. Ivey Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:17 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 jib questions Many thanks to Fin and Scott for their thoughts. And I'll watch for and appreciate any other thoughts on the topic. I have several months to think about it. It's more or less as I suspected. I wonder if there's a way to back the jib in a Hoyt boom. I was reading about rescue maneuvers in last month's Sailing magazine, and many used a backed jib at one point or another. Other than that, I think I'll be dreaming of a Hoyt-style jib boom (less than $700 in one source). 4. Your dinghy experience is showing through, as evidenced by the quality of your questions. Thanks. I was reading in this month's Sailing magazine about a designer that learned in dinghies and is known for coming too close to other boats, docks, etc. I get a lot of angry stares in the estuary (at just about anything closer than 2 boat lengths), so maybe I do the same thing. I don't get nervous until a little closer than one boat length. One captain looked like he was trying to shoot me with his hand-held horn. My apologies if I've done this to anyone on the list. I don't do that anymore. If and when I sort out my pointing issue and perhaps ease my tacking, I won't be so reluctant to tack sooner. Thanks again! Jim Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> Law Offices of James D. Ivey _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "Cal_Boats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service. _____

What are the odds?! I bought new standing rigging from Steve and had a sail modified by Rui. Rui made a pitch for custom cut sails rather than the bargain Sail Warehouse main I got. I'm glad to know I'm already working with good guys (knew that about Steve, didn't have any corraboration about Rui). Good idea to ask Steve. Rui would be good to talk to, too. Thanks! Jim Oakland, CA Cal 25 #202 On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 16:53 -0800, Rog Jones wrote: > Hi, Jim – > > > > The original Cal rigger for the Cal 25 is Steve Seals. He runs a Cal > rigging and spar shop in Alameda. You can reach him in Alameda at > (510) 521-7730 and if anyone can give you information on using a Hoyt > jib boom, Steve can. He is a great sailor (sails a Wylie 30) and is a > generally good guy. His rigging shop is in his back yard and he knows > all the sailmakers in the Bay Area pretty well. Another option is to > ask Steve take a look at your sail inventory and perhaps take a > foresail over to Rui at Rooster Sails and have him cut it flatter for > you. Rui is really good at getting performance out of sails that are > still in reasonable condition. Another nice guy. Both Seals Spars and > Rooster Sails are on the web. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > From:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of James D. Ivey > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:17 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 jib questions > > > > > Many thanks to Fin and Scott for their thoughts. And I'll watch for > and appreciate any other thoughts on the topic. I have several months > to think about it. > > It's more or less as I suspected. > > I wonder if there's a way to back the jib in a Hoyt boom. I was > reading about rescue maneuvers in last month's Sailing magazine, and > many used a backed jib at one point or another. Other than that, I > think I'll be dreaming of a Hoyt-style jib boom (less than $700 in one > source). > > > > > 4. Your dinghy experience is showing through, as evidenced by the > quality of your questions. > > > Thanks. I was reading in this month's Sailing magazine about a > designer that learned in dinghies and is known for coming too close to > other boats, docks, etc. I get a lot of angry stares in the estuary > (at just about anything closer than 2 boat lengths), so maybe I do the > same thing. I don't get nervous until a little closer than one boat > length. One captain looked like he was trying to shoot me with his > hand-held horn. My apologies if I've done this to anyone on the list. > I don't do that anymore. > > If and when I sort out my pointing issue and perhaps ease my tacking, > I won't be so reluctant to tack sooner. > > Thanks again! > > Jim > Oakland, CA > Cal 25 #202 > > -- > James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> > Law Offices of James D. Ivey > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 1. Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > > 2. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > 3. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > -- James D. Ivey <ji… [at] iveylaw.com> Law Offices of James D. Ivey