liferaft candidate(s) pt.3

George & Co., The liferaft search has slowed a bit in the past few days because of my schedule, but I am doggedly pursuing it. Got the usual input from left field, or at least a left-hander named Steve, who tossed another candidate into the ring (with his usual independent and expert analysis), along with a number of questions. I decided it was time to bother Dave Apt at USA Services again. I had delayed this because I felt I didn't have any real new questions, other than to include the subject of a Givens raft on Steve's recommendation. The more you talk to this guy and the more you can think to ask, the more surprising it gets. So, here goes... I asked about Lifeguard rafts of England. He had heard of them but said there was very little support or maintenance in this country. I asked about Givens rafts. He said, promptly and emphatically, that he could not recommend them. He said he loved their design and reputation, but that there were 'issues' and 'concerns' and 'supply issues' and other unspecified problems with the company or products that prevented any recommendation. That's as specific as it got, but the point was clear and I am sure he was not just talking about business dealings. Other than that, they don't have an ISAF model and the SOLAS option is discussed further down here. I then asked to repeat some of our previous discussions. Unlike last time, I explained that George and KY were the subject, that I worked in WM, and he replied that he saw George occasionally and understood our objectives. Although he remembered that we had talked about 8-person rafts, the following info was not given at the time. On the West Marine ISAF rafts, he claims that contrary to the WM catalogue there is no WM/Zodiac 8-person ISAF raft - that the catalogue is just plain wrong. He explained that he is at Zodiac conferences several times a week, and would know. According to him, the raft is their Ocean Plus offshore raft (not ISAF, not SOLAS), and they may claim its 'ISAF compliant', but that doesn't mean its ISAF certified, which is a very specific, rigorous thing. They have a 6-person ISAF raft, but not an 8-person one because Zodiac doesn't make one. Period. Okay, does that mean there is really only one ISAF 8-person raft? YES! Does that mean, with a large fleet this year, most of whom are probably grandfathered, there will be something of a run on DSB rafts for those buying a new one? Yes. Will there be a run on 8-person DSB rafts? Maybe, according to Dave. He states that he sells very few 8c (8-person cannister) rafts for pleasure yachts. The great majority sold are either 6 or 4-person rafts, and most of those are valise. Dave says (admirably) that he does not like the valise type, prefers the cannister, but most boats do not want it on deck, and have a smaller crew. While they minimize their crew and costs, and opt for the six-person raft, KY is different in maximizing her crew. Price. I remember distinctly (and I have it written somewhere) that Dave said around $2850 or so, and I remember thinking it was strange it would be about my cost at WM. When I asked him this time, he said $4420 complete with cannister and stand. I had him repeat this figure, but was so silently surprised that I did not ask if that included the hydrostatic release discussed earlier. Either he had mistakenly quoted me a cost figure, or the complete setup added a pile. Okay, it gets even more interesting. I asked about the SOLAS option, which Steve had brought up. Hard to repeat even this brief but rapid discussion. According to Dave, a SOLAS raft does not necessarily trump an ISAF requirement, although you would expect so. There will be official decisions in the distant future about the raft requirements, and there is no guarantee that SOLAS will or will not be accepted as an ISAF alternative; i.e. SOLAS may not meet ISAF requirements. In the new ISAF standards, even the SOLAS A-pack may be superceded. Dave said everyone was very unhappy about the ISAF standards, and it might do alot of damage. Supposedly its purpose is to establish a standard for pleasure boats (non-SOLAS) based on the lessons of Fastnet and Sidney-Hobart, and should be a good thing. He says only a few largest raft makers in the world have the resources and the technical credentials (certifications and testing) to produce ISAF-certified rafts. That means the yacht world must buy these and leave many smaller companies and their varieties behind, a la big biz. Currently only a few, like DSB and Zodiac, have the wealth and ability and production/materials/testing certifications to offer ISAF rafts. I also asked him about a theoretical trans-atlantic voyage, would he be comfortable with an ISAF raft. Yes, he would have no reservations about it, although he would of course have a SOLAS raft if possible. He then explained this was not possible. The DSB weighed 90 lbs and was affordable. The 8-person SOLAS raft would weigh in at 160-170 lbs, too heavy for pleasure boats, be expensive, and very large, possibly 44"lx14"hx28"w. Launching such a raft would be counter-productive in practical terms. (In the article from Equipped to Survive, they launched a 4-man Givens raft in reasonable weather and said its a good thing it didn't weigh much more than it did.) My conversation with Dave led to one conclusion - for a new 8-man cannister raft for sailing events, the only 'safe' choice is the DSB, and reasonably soon. 8c SOLAS rafts are too heavy, too expensive, too big, and may not qualify for ISAF-compliant events in the future, if indeed they do now. Everything else looks like roadkill in this trend, unless there is a new direction in sailing committees. I am sure this will not sit well with some of us (Steve), - sorry I couldn't resist - but that's my report for now. John D. --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day