RE: [Cal_Boats] West Marine

you can ask your wm to "manager buy" certain items that are not in the catalogue such as bristol finish which my store now carries because it is in production and a customer asked for it. same with awlgrip. ask and you shall receive Ben Koche ----------------------------------------------- > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com > Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:06:33 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] West Marine > > It's time for my annual rant about West Marine and their corporate model. > First, let me say that in the two stores nearest my boats, West's sales > clerks and managers are sailors. They do attract a staff that > participates in the activity. That is good. > But in their product selection, they keep getting worse. I went out to > buy myself a quart of Pettit Unepoxy for the Cal 20. I had enough in > the old can to touch up the hull, but I needed a bit on the rudder. > Well, they don't have it on the shelf any more. And they don't have it > in the catalog any more. The clerk was singing the praises of Pettit's > new Vivid...@$60/quart. I looked at the old can of Unepoxy in my hand, > and I paid $19 for it (on sale, from $27, it looked like). I'm not in > heavily fouling waters, and I'm not going to pay $60/quart. So I went > down the road to the place that bought the place that carried > Pettit--but they don't carry paints any more. So I went back to West > and bought their store-brand hard antifouling. It's too late to order > elsewhere so I was trapped. > The guy at West told me that if it wasn't in the catalog any more, they > probably don't make it, so I went to Pettit's web site, and they still > make both Unepoxy Standard and the next grade up, too. West just > doesn't see fit to carry it any more. > So I'll issue my anual lament, to the effect that if you are the biggest > (and usually virtually the only) game in town, you have a service > obligation to your customers to carry a range of products, not all of > which will be highly profitable. It's just one of those reciprocal > obligations. I shop at your store and buy high-markup items, and you > carry a few oddball things for my convenience. More and more I see West > honoring the first half of the bargain, but neglecting the reciprocal > obligation. It may make a lot of sense in pure financial terms, at > least in a narrow perspective. But I wonder if the overall effect isn't > negative, in terms of diminished customer loyalty. I've been a customer > since the catalog-only days, when they had all sorts of stuff that never > appeared on local shelves. I remember walking into my first West > store. I was amazed at the breadth of inventory that store carried, and > anticipating the pleasure of buying those cool items as I needed them. > But later the emphasis changed to narrowing the product line to > high-volume items. When I went in to buy that cool oarlock, it wasn't > there. And this was about the time the local guy down the street went > out of business because all of us had ben seduced by West's great > inventory. I feel betrayed. > Chris Campbell > SPONSORED LINKS > Boating sailing > Sailing boat > Sailing > Boating > ----------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > ----------------------------------------------- Enter the Windows Live Mail beta sweepstakes http://www.imagine-msn.com/minisites/sweepstakes/mail/register.aspx

On May 2, 2006, at 2:15 PM, Ben Koche wrote: > you can ask your wm to "manager buy" certain items that are not in > the catalogue such as bristol finish which my store now carries > because it is in production and a customer asked for it. same with > awlgrip. ask and you shall receive I did this with the Groco TM-10 tank monitor for the holding tank. I had the tank built to Fin's specification and added a 1 1/2 inch fitting in the top for a gauge that I had seen in a catalogue. The West Marine gauge is plastic and has a 2 1/2 inch fitting. Most of the others are external and can only be used with plastic tanks. Groco had the gauge I had seen but was not stocked by WM. They got it for me and I picked it up today after I got back from Chicago. Fits perfectly. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Ben Koche > > ----------------------------------------------- > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com > > Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:06:33 -0400 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] West Marine > > > > It's time for my annual rant about West Marine and their > corporate model. > >

A quick note. The Vivid paints are history at our store for lack of interest. I admit I have never heard of the Petitt paint Chris wants; that also means no one ever asked me for it. A good clerk would have checked on it and gone beyond the catalogue as Michael says. WM certainly deals with Petitt and has access to their line. The only complication is that a paint will be a 'Hazmat' and poses some shipping problems. (There may also be minimum quantity or handling fee issues that can complicate unique orders.) Jamestown has a similar advantage to Dell, in that they can buy and sell in relation to what is ordered instead of stocking many stores in a viable way. They also only sell what they want to carry, instead of asking you what your entire list is and trying to deal with it. All I can say is that the vast majority of people walk into this store and expect to pick up the most bizzare stuff because they really need it that day. But they won't wait five minutes for someone to research it, and they won't drive 20min to another location that has it, let alone ordering it on the weekly truck. Oddly, some of the same people will tout a website that involves hunting, buying sight unseen, paying fees to return their mistakes, offering no other services, waiting for delivery and paying freight. There are alot of things about the direction of WM I don't like right now, but most criticisms miss the mark in my opinion. John Dawson Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: On May 2, 2006, at 2:15 PM, Ben Koche wrote: you can ask your wm to "manager buy" certain items that are not in the catalogue such as bristol finish which my store now carries because it is in production and a customer asked for it. same with awlgrip. ask and you shall receive I did this with the Groco TM-10 tank monitor for the holding tank. I had the tank built to Fin's specification and added a 1 1/2 inch fitting in the top for a gauge that I had seen in a catalogue. The West Marine gauge is plastic and has a 2 1/2 inch fitting. Most of the others are external and can only be used with plastic tanks. Groco had the gauge I had seen but was not stocked by WM. They got it for me and I picked it up today after I got back from Chicago. Fits perfectly. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 Ben Koche ----------------------------------------------- > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: cl… [at] charterinternet.com > Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:06:33 -0400 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] West Marine > > It's time for my annual rant about West Marine and their corporate model. --------------------------------- SPONSORED LINKS Boating sailing Sailing boat Sailing Boating --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase

I think this is fair. I have Vivid white on my bottom as it is the only white bottom paint that does not yellow, according to Practical Sailor which recommended it a year ago. My bottom paint still looks white. There are issues about Vivid White in California (as with almost every bottom paint that works) but it was supposed to be cleared last summer. This is why many big race boats have their bottoms done in Mexico. On my other race boats I had Baltoplate and loved it but it was banned and then reformulated, according to what I have heard. On the Choate 40, I had Baltoplate on the bottom and Micron white on the keel and rudder so we could see kelp. I don't think you can get Micron any more. MIke Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On May 2, 2006, at 11:51 PM, John Dawson wrote: > A quick note. The Vivid paints are history at our store for lack of > interest. I admit I have never heard of the Petitt paint Chris > wants; that also means no one ever asked me for it. A good clerk > would have checked on it and gone beyond the catalogue as Michael > says. WM certainly deals with Petitt and has access to their line. > The only complication is that a paint will be a 'Hazmat' and poses > some shipping problems. (There may also be minimum quantity or > handling fee issues that can complicate unique orders.) > > Jamestown has a similar advantage to Dell, in that they can buy and > sell in relation to what is ordered instead of stocking many stores > in a viable way. They also only sell what they want to carry, > instead of asking you what your entire list is and trying to deal > with it. All I can say is that the vast majority of people walk > into this store and expect to pick up the most bizzare stuff > because they really need it that day. But they won't wait five > minutes for someone to research it, and they won't drive 20min to > another location that has it, let alone ordering it on the weekly > truck. Oddly, some of the same people will tout a website that > involves hunting, buying sight unseen, paying fees to return their > mistakes, offering no other services, waiting for delivery and > paying freight. There are alot of things about the direction of WM > I don't like right now, but most criticisms miss the mark in my > opinion. > > John Dawson > > snipped

John Dawson wrote: > A quick note. The Vivid paints are history at our store for lack of > interest. The local West guy said that they had just been to a seminar and the Vivid was being touted as the greatest thing since Dacron line. It's what he's pushing. (And at $60/quart, I can see why.) > I admit I have never heard of the Petitt paint Chris wants; that also > means no one ever asked me for it. The Unepoxy is an old, standard hard bottom paint. West sold it for years. I bought mine there, including my last can. > All I can say is that the vast majority of people walk into this store > and expect to pick up the most bizzare stuff because they really need > it that day. But they won't wait five minutes for someone to research > it, and they won't drive 20min to another location that has it, let > alone ordering it on the weekly truck. Actually, I was ready to wait a few days for it to arrive via truck. And I expected that I might find it on the shelf because it has been there for years. The only reason I had any fear was that West has been so aggressive in narrowing their inventory in the last few years. And when West didn't have it, I did drive to another (non-West) store that used to carry the Pettit line. But because West is the 1,000-pound gorilla, they don't carry finishes and bottom paints any more. So I went back to West and bought a substitute product. Next year I'll think ahead and order the stuff I want from another vendor. I used to be pretty good about organizing my purchases in advance, by mail order or special order at local chandleries, but I got seduced by West carying what I wanted on their shelves. Then they began removing the old stand-bys from the shelves. > Oddly, some of the same people will tout a website that involves > hunting, buying sight unseen, paying fees to return their mistakes, > offering no other services, waiting for delivery and paying freight. > There are alot of things about the direction of WM I don't like right > now, but most criticisms miss the mark in my opinion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was pleased when West first opened their stores in the two communities where I have boats. No more mail-order delays and inconvenience. All this cool stuff right here on the shelf. But once all the competition closed, West became a lot less friendly and service-oriented. And I mean the corporate West, the policy-making end of it, not the local clerks who are better now than a few years back (they are sailors). Chris Campbell

Michael Kennedy wrote: > I think this is fair. I have Vivid white on my bottom as it is the > only white bottom paint that does not yellow, according to Practical > Sailor which recommended it a year ago. My bottom paint still looks > white. The West clerk who was trying to sell me the Vivid told me that it's being used by racers who find it's an attractive alternative to the local favorite, VC-17, when it's burnished. He also said that it's not only available in a wide range of colors, but you can mix the colors to obtain different shades. I will add that, at $60/quart, it ought to apply itself and then levitate the boat. Chris Campbell not expecting miracles @$24/qt.

On May 3, 2006, at 6:58 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > I think this is fair. I have Vivid white on my bottom as it is the > > only white bottom paint that does not yellow, according to Practical > > Sailor which recommended it a year ago. My bottom paint still looks > > white. > > The West clerk who was trying to sell me the Vivid told me that it's > being used by racers who find it's an attractive alternative to the > local favorite, VC-17, when it's burnished. > > He also said that it's not only available in a wide range of > colors, but > you can mix the colors to obtain different shades. > > I will add that, at $60/quart, it ought to apply itself and then > levitate the boat. I think Baltoplate was about $150/ gallon 20 years ago when money was worth more. Pettit Vivid white is $ 144/gallon at Jamestown. The quart price is $52. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Chris Campbell > not expecting miracles @$24/qt. > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "Cal_Boats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >

Michael Kennedy wrote: > > I think Baltoplate was about $150/ gallon 20 years ago when money was > worth more. Pettit Vivid white is $ 144/gallon at Jamestown. The quart > price is $52. > I suppose this will have to go on the list of "why I'm grateful I'm on fresh water." I just touch up the old Unepoxy, maybe roll on a bit along the waterline where the sun hits the bottom, and call it good. Chris Campbell

Mike, I am about to use Vivid White on my Cal 40. I hear it is hard to apply smoothly. Please would you give some details of how you painted (roll-tip, just roller, just brush, spray), and about what the weather conditions were at the time? Any other details would be very helpful. --Kevin Cal40 "Tumble Home" #164 (for sale) --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@...> wrote: > > > On May 3, 2006, at 6:58 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > > > > > > > Michael Kennedy wrote: > > > > > I think this is fair. I have Vivid white on my bottom as it is the > > > only white bottom paint that does not yellow, according to Practical > > > Sailor which recommended it a year ago. My bottom paint still looks > > > white. > > >*SNIP*

Kevin Tisdall wrote: > Mike, > > I am about to use Vivid White on my Cal 40. I hear it is hard to apply > smoothly. > > My local West Marine guy said that you burnish it--fine sanding--to get the racing finish. Chris Campbell

Chris, I get the burnishing part, but what about application? I hear Vivid is very hard to apply, due to some component of the paint making it hard to maintain a 'wet edge' as you roll or roll-tip it. I can't afford a spray job this year but I want it as smooth as a roller job can be. I've had good luck with other paints (CSC, Ultra). Lately I've used Epaint ZO and it was very hard to roll a decent finish because it dried so fast. Now I've sanded all that off to prep for Vivid and I'm hoping it's not going to be a nightmare to apply also. I have good short nap mohair rollers and also west foam rollers as an option. I've had good results with the west rollers before. --Kevin Cal40 "Tumble Home" #164 (for sale) --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: > > > > Kevin Tisdall wrote: > > > Mike, > > > > I am about to use Vivid White on my Cal 40. I hear it is hard to apply > > smoothly. > > > > > My local West Marine guy said that you burnish it--fine sanding--to get > the racing finish. > > Chris Campbell >