Pop rivet help URGENT

Hi all, I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone know where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless poprivets. My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I shattered the head off the thing trying) Please any advice welcome Scott Sauvageot

Hi Scott, The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out their serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you one. As for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum fitting on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as not to cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen Cal 3-34 #21 Moon Shadow ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Sauvageot<mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT Hi all, I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone know where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless poprivets. My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I shattered the head off the thing trying) Please any advice welcome Scott Sauvageot

It's a new boom, so it never had anything in it before. Dwyer mast recommended (and sold with the end cap and gooseneck kits) the stainless steel rivets. Now, most cal 25's have their mainsheet on a tang attached to the endcap, so it's under heavy load. My end cap is only going to have a topping lift and possibly the outhaul. I suppose aluminum pop rivets will work fine, but I just don't want to find out the hard way when they fail. Will the aluminum rivets take the load adequately? Cheers, Scott >From: "glen fromm" <gl… [at] msn.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:52:30 -0400 > >Hi Scott, > The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out >their serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you >one. As for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum >fitting on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as >not to cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen > >Cal 3-34 #21 >Moon Shadow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Sauvageot<mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com> > To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT > > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the >end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end >cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone >know > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless >poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > > Please any advice welcome > > Scott Sauvageot > > > >

Scott – You don’t want to use stainless pop rivets with aluminum. Galvanic corrosion will result. Many boatyards will loan or rent pop rivet guns including pneumatic ones. Also, you can just take your parts into most boatyards and they will charge you ¼ hour for the labor and tool. Hope this helps. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of glen fromm Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 4:53 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT Hi Scott, The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out their serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you one. As for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum fitting on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as not to cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen Cal 3-34 #21 Moon Shadow From: Scott Sauvageot <mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com> To: cal_boats@yahoogrou <mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ps.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT Hi all, I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone know where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless poprivets. My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I shattered the head off the thing trying) Please any advice welcome Scott Sauvageot

greetings All.... i really hate to be contrary to what seems to be the prevailing wisdom, but...... having specialized in just this sort of thing over the years (structure integrity viruses saltwater environment). and having done a little aluminum mast work, and worked with Raytheon a bit on the same. i got to tell you, i would never use an aluminum pop-rivets for any structural attachment, period! and i don't give two-hoots-and-a- holler what dis-similar metal i was dealing with. there are always "ways" of dealing with possible rivet-erosion and or corrosion. even when putting the "guts" into sub's, we used ton's of pop-rivet's. aluminum for the non-structure work of putting little storage lockers together and even putting the hinges on them as well as some of the SS hard-wear on them too. but where it came to the structural fastening requiring pop-rivets; that was all done with SS rivets through aluminum sheets. you can see a bit of corrosion and replace your rivet. but you can't see a damned rivet about ready to fracture from stress! you can always have one of the part's power-coated as Raytheon does their mast-mounted radar mounts. or use an electrical isolating gel of some- sort to keep salt-water mostly out. we are talking "Safety-at-Sea" here, folks. i always use the strongest, not the prettiest or the longest lasting. there is also the practice of putting a backing washer on the inside (the blind side of the rivet). this gives the rivet even more metal for holding and lessens the stress on the thin surrounding aluminum. as far as a good rivet gun goes; try a commercial truck parts sails place. that is where i got my air powered pop-rivet gun for $100. and that thing will drive anything made; no more sore hands....... fiver of old 54 (built like a battleship; sails like a sub) *************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Scott Sauvageot" <rxnumbercruncher@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone know > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > > Please any advice welcome > > Scott Sauvageot >

I'm not familiar with the setup and loads on the 25 boom. Maybe another option would be if you have a tap and die, just thread the aluminum, coat some s/s machine screws with antiseize and run them in. My H23 is set up that way on the gooseneck and end cap, and it's been holding well for 20 years. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Sauvageot<mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT It's a new boom, so it never had anything in it before. Dwyer mast recommended (and sold with the end cap and gooseneck kits) the stainless steel rivets. Now, most cal 25's have their mainsheet on a tang attached to the endcap, so it's under heavy load. My end cap is only going to have a topping lift and possibly the outhaul. I suppose aluminum pop rivets will work fine, but I just don't want to find out the hard way when they fail. Will the aluminum rivets take the load adequately? Cheers, Scott >From: "glen fromm" <gl… [at] msn.com<mailto:gl… [at] msn.com>> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:52:30 -0400 > >Hi Scott, > The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out >their serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you >one. As for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum >fitting on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as >not to cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen > >Cal 3-34 #21 >Moon Shadow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Sauvageot<mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com<mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com>> > To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com><mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT > > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the >end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end >cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone >know > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless >poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > > Please any advice welcome > > Scott Sauvageot > > > >

The loads on these fitting are insignificant. Nonetheless, I really like Glen's solution best - no offense, Fiver. The facts of life are that these are toys anyway. The average owner will hang onto one of them about five years. I'd much rather have something I can take apart later on.. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of glen fromm Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:47 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT I'm not familiar with the setup and loads on the 25 boom. Maybe another option would be if you have a tap and die, just thread the aluminum, coat some s/s machine screws with antiseize and run them in. My H23 is set up that way on the gooseneck and end cap, and it's been holding well for 20 years. From: Scott Sauvageot <mailto:rx… [at] hotmail.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ps.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT It's a new boom, so it never had anything in it before. Dwyer mast recommended (and sold with the end cap and gooseneck kits) the stainless steel rivets. Now, most cal 25's have their mainsheet on a tang attached to the endcap, so it's under heavy load. My end cap is only going to have a topping lift and possibly the outhaul. I suppose aluminum pop rivets will work fine, but I just don't want to find out the hard way when they fail. Will the aluminum rivets take the load adequately? Cheers, Scott >From: "glen fromm" <glenfromm@msn. <mailto:glenfromm%40msn.com> com> >Reply-To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com >To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com> >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:52:30 -0400 > >Hi Scott, > The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out >their serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you >one. As for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum >fitting on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as >not to cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen > >Cal 3-34 #21 >Moon Shadow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Sauvageot<mailto:rxnumbercruncher@ <mailto:rxnumbercruncher%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com> > To: cal_boats@yahoogrou <mailto:cal_boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com<mailto:cal_boats@yahoogrou <mailto:cal_boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com> > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT > > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the >end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end >cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone >know > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless >poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > > Please any advice welcome > > Scott Sauvageot > > > >

no offence taken, Rog; you know more about these boats then i. and i am very glad to hear that the "boom-load" for the cal-25 is light; as with that i can extrapolate that the same goes for it's big sister the cal-28. you see, i just despise end-boom sheeting in these boats (too much line snaking around, & the helmsmen should be aft i think). so top of my list of stuff to fix is that; mid boom sheeting for me! though my "sense" is that the OEM boom will fold in a good off-shore blow (up here), with mid-boom sheeting. so i will keep a look-out for something with a better cross-section made for a bigger boat, and just cut it down to fit. i guess i do get carried away a little, but this boat is my "dream- boat". i have wanted a Cal-28, and nothing but a Cal-28, ever sense i was in grade school and these boats were new. i wouldn't sell this thing even if i could never sail it; just look at it out the window from my bed every day. and if i win the lottery as they say.... well i will do two things. the first is to have a "Delta Trawler Yacht" custom built that is big enough so the Cal-28 can be carried as a lunch. and then i would collect a matching set of every one of the Cal-flush-decks, and put them in a nice clean well lit building so i, and other's could look at them whenever we wanted too. fiver and old 54, (built like a battleship; sails like a sub) **************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > The loads on these fitting are insignificant. Nonetheless, I really like > Glen's solution best - no offense, Fiver. The facts of life are that these > are toys anyway. The average owner will hang onto one of them about five > years. > > > > I'd much rather have something I can take apart later on.. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet

There is a great deal of original CAL information online in the archives, located here: ftp://ftp.sailjazz.com/cal/tech_drawings/CAL_2-29/fullsize/mast-1.jpg This link applies to the Cal 2-29, and talks of the original rivets and screws on the mast. It is worth the time to check out. I checked the site out too soon after buying my boat and failed to appreciate a lot of the information. Spending time on the boat and on this list puts it all into perspective. I revisited the site yesterday and reviewed and downloaded all of the files again. Bruce --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > Scott – > > > > You don't want to use stainless pop rivets with aluminum. Galvanic corrosion > will result. > > > > Many boatyards will loan or rent pop rivet guns including pneumatic ones. > Also, you can just take your parts into most boatyards and they will charge > you ¼ hour for the labor and tool. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > _____ > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of glen fromm > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 4:53 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT > > > > Hi Scott, > > The marine center/ boat dealer where I buy my hardware will loan out their > serious rivet gun. Maybe there is a store/ yard that will loan you one. As > for what type to use, what came out of it? If it's a cast aluminum fitting > on an aluminum boom, I would suggest using aluminum rivets so as not to > cause a reaction between the two metals. Glen > > > > Cal 3-34 #21 > > Moon Shadow > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Scott Sauvageot <mailto:rxnumbercruncher@...> > > To: cal_boats@yahoogrou <mailto:ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ps.com > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:37 PM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Pop rivet help URGENT > > > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does someone know > > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > > Please any advice welcome > > Scott Sauvageot >

Scott Sauvageot wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm assembling my new dwyer boom and using 3/16 SS pop rivets for the end > cap and gooseneck casting. I'm not attaching my mainsheet to the end cap. > Would it be ok to use aluminum pop rivets instead or SS or does > someone know > where I can find an affordable pop rivet gun for 3/16 stainless > poprivets. > My poor sears "commercial" tool won't handle them (as I found out when I > shattered the head off the thing trying) > I probably should have looked ahead to see if others had answered this, but here goes. I recall years ago that a lot of aluminum boat parts were joined by using things called, as I remember, "drive rivets" or some such. These were heavier than pop rivets, and they operated by driving the stem (the thing you'd pull on a pop rivet) _inward_. That caused the inside of the rivet to expand, because of the way the thing was designed. It didn't depend on compressing the inside of the rivet. Instead, it spread the inside outward. Are these still available? Chris Campbell

slickbutfoxbuger wrote: > > and then i would collect a matching set of every one of the > Cal-flush-decks, and put them in a nice clean well lit building so i, > and other's could look at them whenever we wanted too. > OK!!! I smile every time I row away from the mooring and look back on my cool Cal 20--what a lovely sight. Just looking at the little boat justifies the money it took to buy and keep her. The fact that she sails well is a bonus. It's kind of embarrassing but I can actually get a bit moist-eyed gazing on that nice boat, or sailing in a blow when I'm the only boat out there except for the local tourist schooner. I like my end-boom sheeting. Yes, it's a lot of sheet and too many blocks adding too much friction, but the boom isn't going to break in half and doesn't need to be a telephone pole to be strong enough. One of these days I'll buy some fancy Harken blocks (when I win the lottery). Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, "Martha C"

Thanks for the responses everyone! I found a heavier duty pop rivet gun from Sears. Their web site wasn't too helpful, but I visited the store. They had one with a sturdy steel head, much better than the cast aluminum one I had previously owned (and shattered). All of the rivets were coated in lanocote to prevent galvanic corrosion. The new boom is on and worked beautifully during trials on Saturday. Cheers, Scott >From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Pop rivet help URGENT (all) >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:22:55 -0400 > >slickbutfoxbuger wrote: >> >>and then i would collect a matching set of every one of the >>Cal-flush-decks, and put them in a nice clean well lit building so i, >>and other's could look at them whenever we wanted too. >> > > > > > >OK!!! I smile every time I row away from the mooring and look back on my >cool Cal 20--what a lovely sight. Just looking at the little boat >justifies the money it took to buy and keep her. The fact that she sails >well is a bonus. It's kind of embarrassing but I can actually get a bit >moist-eyed gazing on that nice boat, or sailing in a blow when I'm the only >boat out there except for the local tourist schooner. > >I like my end-boom sheeting. Yes, it's a lot of sheet and too many blocks >adding too much friction, but the boom isn't going to break in half and >doesn't need to be a telephone pole to be strong enough. One of these days >I'll buy some fancy Harken blocks (when I win the lottery). > >Chris Campbell >Cal 20 #1220, "Martha C"