Racing and the So. Cal. "lake"

Mike Kennedy wrote: I was a bit amused by the earlier post about the "lake." Every summer a half dozen small power boats disappear between the shore and Catalina leaving Newport Beach or Long Beach with maybe a compass and probably a VHF. Lots of people think that 26 miles is a snap; after all you can see Catalina. Power boats with one engine are really at the mercy of luck. Over a certain size, they can't be rowed, and their typical maladies are most apt to arise in uncomfortable circumstances (big seas stirring up fuel sediments, big seas stressing equipment). It makes for a profitable business for the Sea Tow folks. Another doctor I knew had a half interest in a little fishing boat. Three guys (One may have been a girl) were doing the fishing and he was paying the bills for fuel, etc. His fishing boat investment (like a lot of doctor investments) disappeared. My Dad was a physician in a small-medium community. He was an orthopedic surgeon with few others, so he worked very hard in the days before they had ER docs--all the car accidents, with alcohol and without seat belts, brought in maimed bodies. He had little time for studying investments, and was a bit embarrassed by not being more financially acute, since his less hard-working colleagues all talked incessantly about investments. Occasionally they'd snag him into joining some sure-thing investment scheme (real estate, etc.) and the scheme usually went south in short order. But Dad also "invested" in worthwhile things like a sailboat that paid huge dividends in mental health and pleasure. It was an escape from the telephone and the operating room--especially from the telephone, since he enjoyed the operating room. It was a good lesson for me. I've still got that little used sailboat, my other boat, by the way. I've kept varnish on the mahogany trim and spruce spars for 38 years now. I'm sure everybody has horror stories but if you go out enough around here, you learn that the "lake" impression is made on the really pretty days. Unfortunately, the world is well populated with fools. Now I'll confess to having made some really dumb decisions on the boat, most of which have been valuable learning experiences ("Wow, I'll never do THAT again."). I'll probably make a few more before I'm too old for sailing (i. e., on my deathbed). But to really appreciate folly and stupidity, you have to study the powerboat crowd. Powerboats, you see, appear to be just nautical cars. You put gas in, you turn the key, you drive away. They're nowhere near as complicated as those sailboats with all those ropes to pull, and who can figure that out, anyway? So the fools tend to end up in powerboats. We all know that a few of them sneak into sailing, but most end up in powerboats. They ignore nautical charts (too complicated, must be for sailboats). They run across rocky reefs at speed, losing their props or outdrives. They run out of gas. They set GPS courses without accounting for islands or breakwaters. Their ground tackle consists of a little iron mushroom anchor made for 12' fishing boats on inland lakes, hanging on a 5/16" polyethylene rode. Hello, Sea Tow. Quite a few years ago, salmon fishing was really big on Lake Michigan. The DNR had planted fry some years earlier, and they finally matured. You could go out and catch these great big fish. Half the state headed out to sea in little runabouts on a day when the Lake was a "lake." But a few hours later the wind picked up from the west and the big seas rolled in, and there was no place to go for the little boats way out in the big lake. People drowned and lots of boats were lost in one day. Even here in Michigan, where we're surrounded by water, many people just have no concept of what wind and water can do. Chris Campbell

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: > > Mike Kennedy wrote: > > > > I was a bit amused by the earlier post about the "lake." Every > summer a half dozen small > power boats disappear between the shore and Catalina leaving Newport > Beach or Long > Beach with maybe a compass and probably a VHF. Lots of people think > that 26 miles is a > snap; after all you can see Catalina. > > > Power boats with one engine are really at the mercy of luck. Over a > certain size, they can't be rowed, and their typical maladies are most > apt to arise in uncomfortable circumstances (big seas stirring up fuel > sediments, big seas stressing equipment). It makes for a profitable > business for the Sea Tow folks. > I have seen several instances of large powerboats leaving (usually) Marina Del Rey and putting the boat on autopilot with a course for Catalina. Then the owner and his party go below and get good and drunk. The autopilot works like a charm and they plow into a cliff at the Isthmus at about 25 knots. There have been a number deaths over the years. They seem to be more frequent in the Marina Del Rey crowd, maybe having to do with too much money and not enough experience. Maybe they could set an egg timer or something but that would require caculation. It is not limited to that harbor as one time we were milling around in the fog off Alamitos Bay (Long Beach) in pre-GPS days waiting for the fog to lift to start a race when a large powerboat blundered into the racing fleet and asked if anyone could tell him where the harbor was. Somebody led him to the entrance. As I recall it, he had radar but may not have found where the on-off switch was yet. This may display a slight anti-power bias but that's not so. Someday, when I get really old and decrepit, I may buy a powerboat. Not yet. Powerboats require thinking faster than sailboats and that may be an excuse. My partner was a very experienced powerboater and one night, while on the way out to albacore fishing off San Diego, they ran into a freighter at about 25 knots. They had it on radar and visually but did not realize it was so close until they hit almost bow-to-bow. My partner was asleep with his wife in the v-berth when they hit. He was awakened by the rise of the bow on the bow wave of the freighter. The boat was a Uniflite 31 and the bow was smashed back to the fordeck hatch. They didn't sink and nobody was hurt. They powered backwards to San Diego, about 70 miles. Uniflites are well built. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 96

it tickles this mariner pink to read all of the sudden influx of stories about *safety at sea*. it's a subject that i feel all too little is said about in the first place. when i took delivery of my Cal-28 in Marina Del Rey a few months back; i was not expecting a *Yacht* of the first order as i had only paid $1800 for BB-54. but neither did i expect to find that the man who i was buying it from had been sailing back and fourth from the Channel Islands with nothing more than the shoddy and mostly missing safety gear that i found onboard. this man had been taking his kids with him on these trips, Folks. when i was much younger, and before i was in the Navy; i rebuilt and outfitted a charter boat that was to be used in Salmon fishing off of the Columbia River Bar. when it came to the Coast Guard requirements for boat, and safety gear; the Owner/Skipper kept telling me just do it to the CG minimums. and i kept telling the guy that the CG minimum requirements were just a starting point; not the finishing point. but this nimrod just didn't get it and i ended up fighting with him all during the job. the point here is that safety is job-one. and at sea, or on any body of water big enough to wipe up a few wight-caps on and get in trouble there-in. you better be looking out for your self, as well as your loved-ones. the coasties may just be busy with some other damn fool when you call, that is if you are even able to call when you need them. Yes, i knocked *The Lake* as that was where most of you seem to go sailing. but i will tell you what. have you looked at the changing weather lately? or is it just fiver who knows that it's getting rougher down there these days? yes, the world warming problem is also changing sea conditions. and you guys on the south-coast are getting hit harder and harder with each passing year. Thank You All for giving Safety some much needed Air- Time..... :)(: fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now resting outside my shop Federal Way, Wa. (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......)

> Mike Kennedy wrote: > > So the fools tend to end up in powerboats. We all know that a few of them > sneak into sailing, but most end up in powerboats. Only too true. But the _real_ idiots end up on those annoying "personal water craft". Most boating fatalities here in western Long Island Sound are drunken PWC types - including one who used a barge tow cable to decapitate himself driving between the barge and its tow. > Lake was a "lake." But a few hours later the wind picked up from the > west and the big seas rolled in, and there was no place to go for the > little boats way out in the big lake. People drowned and lots of boats > were lost in one day. Even here in Michigan, where we're surrounded by > water, many people just have no concept of what wind and water can do. Western LIS really is a lake compared to So. Cal. or Lake Michigan. Still every time I am out when it is 2 foot chop, (all we get is chop) I hear the calls to the CG and Sea Tow going like a litany - engine failure, taking on water, lost, you name it. On the other hand, when the hurricane roared up through PA two weeks ago, we had 9-11 foot seas, with a period of as low as 7 seconds. In my harbor a brand new Sabre 42 (i think 42) was lost. It became just a pile of fiberglass. The owner didn't bother to check the mooring bridle; the bridle went, and so did the boat, right on to the rocks. The only thing recognizable was the radar mast, sticking straight up out of the pile of fiberglass. On a more amusing note, another sail boat ended up on the beach, without any damage other than cosmetic. It is still there, upright, hull completely clear of the sand, with the fin keel stuck into the sand 2 feet above high tide. It looks like Neptune picked it up used it for a map pin... td DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

mtkennedy1 wrote: > > They > seem to be more frequent in the Marina Del Rey crowd, maybe having to > do with too much > money and not enough experience. > Otherwise stated, too much money and not enough sense. Chris Campbell

> mtkennedy1 wrote: >> >> They >> seem to be more frequent in the Marina Del Rey crowd, maybe having to >> do with too much >> money and not enough experience. >> > > Otherwise stated, too much money and not enough sense. > > Chris Campbell Ayep. A power-boat last year admitted to being embarrassed by his poor boat handling skills, and asked for pointers/training. I told him, "there is nothing wrong with having poor boat handing, it is only wrong when you don't do something to improve them." To which I might add, "it's really wrong when you assume that because you bought a boat with a wheel and a key that you know how to drive it." Of course, that would never occur to these types. td DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

We frequently get these message threads started and invariably end up with what a bunch of dumb b#*@!&%s those power boaters are. As usual, I will come to their qualified defense. First, I don't think we should generalize to as much as we often do. This weekend I saw a dumb sailor try to head off a container ship escorted by two tugboats entering the Oakland Estuary. It was a very narrow miss. About once every year or so on the Bay we see a sailboat run down by a ship because the sailor heard that sailboats always have the right of way or were just, plain not keeping a good watch. Typically, this happens on a bright, sunny day, in open waters with plenty of maneuvering room for the sailboat or in a designated shipping lane clearly marked as a no sail area on the charts. Dumb b#*@!&%s come in all flavors and some of them sail, too. In contrast to what we've been reading, we all at one time or another have seen excellent powerboat operators who can spin a single screw craft on its axis, dock with expertise that would amaze the most experienced Coast Guard helmsman and who exhibit courtesy and marine etiquette at all times. Cruising a forty-eight foot sailboat on the Intercoastal Waterway I was approached or overtaken many times by small to medium powerboats who would slow as they approached, signal their intended passing side, make no wakes as they passed and then speed up again only after they were well away from us. However, in contrast to that I am reminded of standing in the pilot house of a Mississippi towboat and watching a couple of idiots try to outrun our tow in order to cross in front of it. The tow was at that point about a half-mile long and was moving at about eight knots. It takes about two miles to stop one of these things. As the first boat disappeared at very high speed in front of the lead barge, the pilot handling the towboat let out a sigh and a soft curse. Then the second boat roared inside the wake of the first. The first boat reappeared on the starboard side a moment later and the second boat didn't. They had rammed into the port side of the port lead barge. The experienced river pilot immediately sent a deckhand forward to check the tow and let the Coast Guard know what had happened as we passed the debris and three people swimming about a hundred feet from the towboat. As we watched they were picked up by the first boat and we learned later that no one was hurt or killed, but it gives you pause. This happens about five or six times a year, I'm told. The guys on the rescuing boat were making inappropriate hand gestures as though the towboat had done something wrong! The river pilot told me afterward that most boaters show great courtesy and respect for the rules of the road, but that there are certain boaters who drink too much and then think they can win in these little contests. About two hours later we were boarded by the Coast Guard and the pilot and I had to report what we'd seen. The young officer turned to the pilot and apologized for the power boaters. "Some of them never seem to learn," he grunted as he left the pilot house. The driver of the surviving boat had reported that the towboat had deliberately tried to run them down! It was hard for the Coast Guard officer to buy that one when he saw that the second boat had hit in the center of the lead barge. I belong to the Coast Guard Auxiliary. We teach safe boat handling and the rules of the road. Our classes, here in Reno (in the desert) are full almost as soon as we announce them. These people are eager to learn and we get them out on a large local lake (Pyramid) that is difficult and can be dangerous and give them real-world boat handling time with escorts right next to them to make sure they learn safely. They all do well and come away from this experience with the knowledge to be good boating citizens and decent boat handlers. Of course, like sailing, a lot of tiller time makes the real difference. Please, not all power boaters are bad guys and not all sailors are good ones. We are all part of the Corinthian family and need to help each other improve our skills. My eight bits. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

Rog Jones wrote: > > > Please, not all power boaters are bad guys and not all sailors are good > ones. We are all part of the Corinthian family and need to help each other > improve our skills. > You're absolutely right. An old family friend bought a 45' Chris-Craft power cruiser in about 1956 (it was a couple years old then) and owned it at his death a few years ago. His family still has the boat. That guy could put the boat wherever he wanted. He did, I note, have twin screws, but he knew how to use them. He had cruised widely in the Lakes and had a vast store of knowledge. That said, the problem remains that power boats are less intimidating to the ignorant. You jump in, turn the key, crank the steering wheel, and you're off. Sailboats have an air of complexity about them that makes untrained folks reluctant to set out in them. Most people gather a least a modicum of knowledge before they assume command of the vessel. They may not have all the terminology mastered to the degree that people like me hope for, but they have a fundamental notion of how to handle the boat. And low-speed vessels are less likely to be pushed into really stupid and dangerous situations. This probably accounts for the predominance of "dumb powerboater" stories--the stupid are just more likely to be running them. Knowledge is no certain protection. A few years back, in the last Tall Ships Challenge in the Lakes before this past summer's event, one of the ocean-going big vessels was in the dredged shipping channel in Lake St. Clair (a shallow lake that lies between Lake Huron and Detroit). A large commercial freighter was overtaking. There was a kid at the helm and he asked the captain if he should move out of the channel. "Hold your course" was the response. The big boat got closer; the kid got more nervous; he asked again. "Hold your course" was the command. The kid did; the large boat's motion and currents sucked the sailing vessel into it; the rigging got caught on the freighter's deck stanchions; it was not pretty. The kid at the helm was in a sad state and flew home that day. The master of the sailing vessel had knowledge, we may assume, but he lacked sound judgment. Chris Campbell

Chris, That's to bad for that kid, I hope he comes back to sailing. He seems to have the instincts to know what is right or wrong. I helped dock a sailboat back in July that was coming in strong. There wasn't much I could do no dock lines were ready they were coming in to fast all I could do was push the bow off the dock and the now flat dock box. I mentioned that maybe a little slower next time he said that there reverse gear was stuck. I offered help didn't take it, also the Marina said they would send over a mechanic didn'nt do that ether. What was strange about it was that they were not going to tell the marina about the damaged dock box. The marina found out told me that had they been up front they would have cut him a little more slack when they act like he did he charged him full price. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Power Boaters (long rant) (was RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Racing and the So. Cal. "lake") Rog Jones wrote: Please, not all power boaters are bad guys and not all sailors are good ones. We are all part of the Corinthian family and need to help each other improve our skills. You're absolutely right. An old family friend bought a 45' Chris-Craft power cruiser in about 1956 (it was a couple years old then) and owned it at his death a few years ago. His family still has the boat. That guy could put the boat wherever he wanted. He did, I note, have twin screws, but he knew how to use them. He had cruised widely in the Lakes and had a vast store of knowledge. That said, the problem remains that power boats are less intimidating to the ignorant. You jump in, turn the key, crank the steering wheel, and you're off. Sailboats have an air of complexity about them that makes untrained folks reluctant to set out in them. Most people gather a least a modicum of knowledge before they assume command of the vessel. They may not have all the terminology mastered to the degree that people like me hope for, but they have a fundamental notion of how to handle the boat. And low-speed vessels are less likely to be pushed into really stupid and dangerous situations. This probably accounts for the predominance of "dumb powerboater" stories--the stupid are just more likely to be running them. Knowledge is no certain protection. A few years back, in the last Tall Ships Challenge in the Lakes before this past summer's event, one of the ocean-going big vessels was in the dredged shipping channel in Lake St. Clair (a shallow lake that lies between Lake Huron and Detroit). A large commercial freighter was overtaking. There was a kid at the helm and he asked the captain if he should move out of the channel. "Hold your course" was the response. The big boat got closer; the kid got more nervous; he asked again. "Hold your course" was the command. The kid did; the large boat's motion and currents sucked the sailing vessel into it; the rigging got caught on the freighter's deck stanchions; it was not pretty. The kid at the helm was in a sad state and flew home that day. The master of the sailing vessel had knowledge, we may assume, but he lacked sound judgment. Chris Campbell

Dave and Cathy wrote: > > . I helped dock a sailboat back in July that was coming in strong. > There wasn't much I could do no dock lines were ready they were coming > in to fast all I could do was push the bow off the dock and the now > flat dock box. I mentioned that maybe a little slower next time he > said that there reverse gear was stuck. It's good to have an occasional experience to keep us humble. Last summer I had a momentary loss of good sense and forgot which twist of the throttle handle on the outboard was "reverse." I managed to select "forward" at an inconvenient time when departing my slip, leading to unintended contact between my boat and various fixed objects. Damage to the boat was very minor (one scratch) but to my ego it was drastic. Luckily, not too many were looking. It's a good reminder that the dangerous parts of sailing come most often at the hard places around the edges of the water. Once you get there, the dangers are diminished. Chris Campbell

I don't know what the large offshore square riggers draft was, but wasn't it supposedly restricted by draft as well as the freighter. In that instance, didn't the freighter have an obligation to stay clear of the sailing ship? Was the sailing ship in the middle of the channel or skirting the edge? it would seem to me that both vessels were constrained to follow the channel. Am I off base here? I understand that the freighter has rights over my Cal 25 due to the draft of the freighter ( and the sheer lack of maneuverability) but I figured that a large ocean going sailing ship would have rights, as it suffers the same draft/maneuverability problems of the freighter AND is a sailing vessel. Scott >From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: Power Boaters (long rant) (was RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Racing and >the So. Cal. "lake") >Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:27:20 -0400 > >Rog Jones wrote: >> >> >>Please, not all power boaters are bad guys and not all sailors are good >>ones. We are all part of the Corinthian family and need to help each other >>improve our skills. >> > > > > > > >You're absolutely right. An old family friend bought a 45' Chris-Craft >power cruiser in about 1956 (it was a couple years old then) and owned it >at his death a few years ago. His family still has the boat. That guy >could put the boat wherever he wanted. He did, I note, have twin screws, >but he knew how to use them. He had cruised widely in the Lakes and had a >vast store of knowledge. > >That said, the problem remains that power boats are less intimidating to >the ignorant. You jump in, turn the key, crank the steering wheel, and >you're off. Sailboats have an air of complexity about them that makes >untrained folks reluctant to set out in them. Most people gather a least a >modicum of knowledge before they assume command of the vessel. They may >not have all the terminology mastered to the degree that people like me >hope for, but they have a fundamental notion of how to handle the boat. >And low-speed vessels are less likely to be pushed into really stupid and >dangerous situations. This probably accounts for the predominance of "dumb >powerboater" stories--the stupid are just more likely to be running them. > >Knowledge is no certain protection. A few years back, in the last Tall >Ships Challenge in the Lakes before this past summer's event, one of the >ocean-going big vessels was in the dredged shipping channel in Lake St. >Clair (a shallow lake that lies between Lake Huron and Detroit). A large >commercial freighter was overtaking. There was a kid at the helm and he >asked the captain if he should move out of the channel. "Hold your course" >was the response. The big boat got closer; the kid got more nervous; he >asked again. "Hold your course" was the command. The kid did; the large >boat's motion and currents sucked the sailing vessel into it; the rigging >got caught on the freighter's deck stanchions; it was not pretty. The kid >at the helm was in a sad state and flew home that day. The master of the >sailing vessel had knowledge, we may assume, but he lacked sound judgment. > >Chris Campbell

Scott Sauvageot wrote: > > I don't know what the large offshore square riggers draft was, but > wasn't it > supposedly restricted by draft as well as the freighter. In that > instance, > didn't the freighter have an obligation to stay clear of the sailing > ship? > Was the sailing ship in the middle of the channel or skirting the > edge? it > would seem to me that both vessels were constrained to follow the channel. > The scuttlebutt among the sailors on the Tall Ships tour was that the capt. had been foolish. The sailing vessel was a larger one but not among the biggest. Overtaking vessels generally do have to yield, but on our schooner we always remain cognizant of the "gross tonnage rule," which says that if you're bigger, you win. It is a rule of practical application. My theory is that prudence calls for avoiding collisions, even if you have the right-of-way. I'd rather run aground at the edge of a channel than collide with a freighter. The rule of prudence protects you against errors in judgment. Maybe the freighter should have slowed to assure safe passing. Maybe he reasonably assumed that the smaller vessel would yield more room. Maybe the smaller vessel was occupying more than its share of the channel. Maybe the smaller vessel could safely have moved out of the channel, suffering only a slight loss of dignity. Maybe , maybe, but what we know is that a collision occurred and the vessel and crew were placed in danger. As a sailor, I demand right of way over more maneuverable vessels all the time. It pisses me off when fishermen in small boats cut across my bow instead of making the tiny course correction that would take them astern of me. But I also maintain a careful watch so I can be the one to avert a collision if they don't. I can remember the exact time and place where I learned that while a bicycle may have the right of way, a car has the gross-tonnage advantage. It has made me more cautious ever since. It took one more trip over the handlebars before I started wearing a helmet, however, which is evidence of my limited reasoning capacity, I suppose. Chris Campbell

I"m not saying that the smaller ship acted with intelligence. I was just curious where to draw the line. There have been several tallships that have visited Baltimore over the years. Some of these are as large as small freighters, and have the draft to match. Putting a wooden ship aground can open seams or cause all sorts of damage. If it was a smaller sailing ship, then the skipper should have moved over, allowing the freighter more maneuvering room. Ceers, Scott >From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Right of way? Re: Power Boaters (long rant) >Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:08:11 -0400 > >Scott Sauvageot wrote: >> >>I don't know what the large offshore square riggers draft was, but wasn't >>it >>supposedly restricted by draft as well as the freighter. In that instance, >>didn't the freighter have an obligation to stay clear of the sailing ship? >>Was the sailing ship in the middle of the channel or skirting the edge? it >>would seem to me that both vessels were constrained to follow the channel. >> > > > > > > > >The scuttlebutt among the sailors on the Tall Ships tour was that the capt. >had been foolish. The sailing vessel was a larger one but not among the >biggest. Overtaking vessels generally do have to yield, but on our >schooner we always remain cognizant of the "gross tonnage rule," which says >that if you're bigger, you win. It is a rule of practical application. My >theory is that prudence calls for avoiding collisions, even if you have the >right-of-way. I'd rather run aground at the edge of a channel than collide >with a freighter. > >The rule of prudence protects you against errors in judgment. Maybe the >freighter should have slowed to assure safe passing. Maybe he reasonably >assumed that the smaller vessel would yield more room. Maybe the smaller >vessel was occupying more than its share of the channel. Maybe the smaller >vessel could safely have moved out of the channel, suffering only a slight >loss of dignity. Maybe , maybe, but what we know is that a collision >occurred and the vessel and crew were placed in danger. > >As a sailor, I demand right of way over more maneuverable vessels all the >time. It pisses me off when fishermen in small boats cut across my bow >instead of making the tiny course correction that would take them astern of >me. But I also maintain a careful watch so I can be the one to avert a >collision if they don't. > >I can remember the exact time and place where I learned that while a >bicycle may have the right of way, a car has the gross-tonnage advantage. >It has made me more cautious ever since. It took one more trip over the >handlebars before I started wearing a helmet, however, which is evidence of >my limited reasoning capacity, I suppose. > >Chris Campbell

Scott Sauvageot wrote: > > I"m not saying that the smaller ship acted with intelligence. I was just > curious where to draw the line. There have been several tallships that > have > visited Baltimore over the years. Some of these are as large as small > freighters, and have the draft to match. Putting a wooden ship aground > can > open seams or cause all sorts of damage. > > If it was a smaller sailing ship, then the skipper should have moved > over, > allowing the freighter more maneuvering room. > Somebody probably should have made radio contact. The freighter could have slowed down when it was apparent that a smaller vessel was in the channel and was being overtaken, or the sailing vessel could have called the freighter to address the issue of channel room. But it was my understanding that the smaller vessel had the capacity to get out of the way and did not do so because of an exalted sense of dignity. Chris Campbell

Back in the 70's at the old California Yacht Anchorage in San Pedro, there was a sailboat about 40" that came into an upwind slip while under sail. The bow sprit punched a hole in the bow of a large Grand Banks across the dock. One would think......not him......and after hole # two was punched, the Grand Banks placed a large colorful archery target over the hole! To my knowledge, the sailboat Capt.. didn't try to sail in anymore. Mark Pelican 2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Power Boaters (long rant) (was RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Racing and the So. Cal. "lake") Dave and Cathy wrote: . I helped dock a sailboat back in July that was coming in strong. There wasn't much I could do no dock lines were ready they were coming in to fast all I could do was push the bow off the dock and the now flat dock box. I mentioned that maybe a little slower next time he said that there reverse gear was stuck. It's good to have an occasional experience to keep us humble. Last summer I had a momentary loss of good sense and forgot which twist of the throttle handle on the outboard was "reverse." I managed to select "forward" at an inconvenient time when departing my slip, leading to unintended contact between my boat and various fixed objects. Damage to the boat was very minor (one scratch) but to my ego it was drastic. Luckily, not too many were looking. It's a good reminder that the dangerous parts of sailing come most often at the hard places around the edges of the water. Once you get there, the dangers are diminished. Chris Campbell

Very well said. Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Cappriccio From: "Rog Jones" <ro… [at] nvsailing.org> Organization: Sierra Nevada Community Sailing Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:39:50 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Power Boaters (long rant) (was RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Racing and the So. Cal. "lake") We frequently get these message threads started and invariably end up with what a bunch of dumb b#*@!&%s those power boaters are. As usual, I will come to their qualified defense. First, I don't think we should generalize to as much as we often do. This weekend I saw a dumb sailor try to head off a container ship escorted by two tugboats entering the Oakland Estuary. It was a very narrow miss. About once every year or so on the Bay we see a sailboat run down by a ship because the sailor heard that sailboats always have the right of way or were just, plain not keeping a good watch. Typically, this happens on a bright, sunny day, in open waters with plenty of maneuvering room for the sailboat or in a designated shipping lane clearly marked as a no sail area on the charts. Dumb b#*@!&%s come in all flavors and some of them sail, too. In contrast to what we've been reading, we all at one time or another have seen excellent powerboat operators who can spin a single screw craft on its axis, dock with expertise that would amaze the most experienced Coast Guard helmsman and who exhibit courtesy and marine etiquette at all times. Cruising a forty-eight foot sailboat on the Intercoastal Waterway I was approached or overtaken many times by small to medium powerboats who would slow as they approached, signal their intended passing side, make no wakes as they passed and then speed up again only after they were well away from us. However, in contrast to that I am reminded of standing in the pilot house of a Mississippi towboat and watching a couple of idiots try to outrun our tow in order to cross in front of it. The tow was at that point about a half-mile long and was moving at about eight knots. It takes about two miles to stop one of these things. As the first boat disappeared at very high speed in front of the lead barge, the pilot handling the towboat let out a sigh and a soft curse. Then the second boat roared inside the wake of the first. The first boat reappeared on the starboard side a moment later and the second boat didn't. They had rammed into the port side of the port lead barge. The experienced river pilot immediately sent a deckhand forward to check the tow and let the Coast Guard know what had happened as we passed the debris and three people swimming about a hundred feet from the towboat. As we watched they were picked up by the first boat and we learned later that no one was hurt or killed, but it gives you pause. This happens about five or six times a year, I'm told. The guys on the rescuing boat were making inappropriate hand gestures as though the towboat had done something wrong! The river pilot told me afterward that most boaters show great courtesy and respect for the rules of the road, but that there are certain boaters who drink too much and then think they can win in these little contests. About two hours later we were boarded by the Coast Guard and the pilot and I had to report what we'd seen. The young officer turned to the pilot and apologized for the power boaters. "Some of them never seem to learn," he grunted as he left the pilot house. The driver of the surviving boat had reported that the towboat had deliberately tried to run them down! It was hard for the Coast Guard officer to buy that one when he saw that the second boat had hit in the center of the lead barge. I belong to the Coast Guard Auxiliary. We teach safe boat handling and the rules of the road. Our classes, here in Reno (in the desert) are full almost as soon as we announce them. These people are eager to learn and we get them out on a large local lake (Pyramid) that is difficult and can be dangerous and give them real-world boat handling time with escorts right next to them to make sure they learn safely. They all do well and come away from this experience with the knowledge to be good boating citizens and decent boat handlers. Of course, like sailing, a lot of tiller time makes the real difference. Please, not all power boaters are bad guys and not all sailors are good ones. We are all part of the Corinthian family and need to help each other improve our skills. My eight bits. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

I'll second that. Labor day weekend, I was getting repeatedly waked by Sea Rays in a narrow channel near Tampa Bay. They didn't know how to conduct a courteous pass. Then a couple of floating motors came by at about 70 mph. One on each side. The sound was deafening. I likened it to witnessing a Space Shuttle launching. One took the channel I was in, as he left Tampa Bay. The other was way too wide and quickly ran into a shoal area. Next thing we saw was that boat coming to a stop. Perhaps his running gear was damaged? Later, a work boat, small bay shrimp trawler, approached from astern. He was on a half plane and tossing a considerable wake. I dropped throttle to idle and made a swerve away to show him I was slowing. The quick turn also kills speed. I waited for him and he dropped to idle just before he got to me. Then I swung Shady Lady hard toward his minimal idle-wake so I could cross it as soon as possible. That let's him get going again without delay. As soon as I crossed his wake he powered back up and regained speed. I did the same and rode in the smooth water next to his prop wash as he pulled away. We both smiled and waved at each other. That's how it's done, folks. If you don't slow down, they can't pass you without making a wake. ~smile~ SMon Terrence Spencer <ts… [at] harbornet.com> wrote: Very well said. Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Cappriccio --------------------------------- From: "Rog Jones" <ro… [at] nvsailing.org> Organization: Sierra Nevada Community Sailing Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:39:50 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Power Boaters (long rant) (was RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Racing and the So. Cal. "lake") We frequently get these message threads started and invariably end up with what a bunch of dumb b#*@!&%s those power boaters are. As usual, I will come to their qualified defense. First, I don't think we should generalize to as much as we often do. This weekend I saw a dumb sailor try to head off a container ship escorted by two tugboats entering the Oakland Estuary. It was a very narrow miss. ~snip~ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.