a sailing race question?

hello to EveryOne..... if I want to race my Cal-28, and at the same time, I also want to add tank's and a chain locker in the keel. as well as changing the inside of the main cabin, and possibly the cockpit too. will that dis-qualify the boat as what it is/was in it's class. mind you, I have never raced before, and know nothing about it. so, what can one change, and what can't one change? I guess that mite be a better way of putting it....... fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now resting outside my shop Federal Way, Wa. (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......)

With all that extra weight, the other boats will probably be happy to see you. :) Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Oct 2, 2006, at 6:56 PM, slickbutfoxbuger wrote: > > hello to EveryOne..... > > if I want to race my Cal-28, and at the same time, I also want > to add tank's and a chain locker in the keel. as well as changing > the inside of the main cabin, and possibly the cockpit too. will > that dis-qualify the boat as what it is/was in it's class. mind > you, I have never raced before, and know nothing about it. so, what > can one change, and what can't one change? I guess that mite be a > better way of putting it....... > > > <F0F63949-9A87-475F-99EC-0D11177B8CA8> > > fiver, > Master of The "BB-54" > one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks > out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) > now resting outside my shop > Federal Way, Wa. > > (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) > >

Hi, As someone who started racing a Cal 25 about 3 years ago, I can tell you that racing and cruising are totally different animals. For racing, you want to keep the boat as light as possible. My 25 has few "cruising" features beyond what is fleet required (stove, working sink head, basic cushions). I've managed to cut the racing weight down quite handily, but I've resigned myself to sparce living when cruising (It is, after all a Cal 25). If you are considering one design racing the Cal 28 (not sure how many are close to you to compete against) then modifications like changing the interior or modifying the cockpit will disqualify you. In our fleet, I could in theory modify my interior as long is I converted it to another factory configuration for the Cal 25. If I removed all bunks and galley, and decided to put in stringers for stiffness (basically making an empty cavern for racing) then the boat would be tossed out in a heartbeat. If you are planning to race the boat as a handicap PHRF entry, then the modifications are allowed, you just have to declare them when you request a rating. Another serious option is to drain the water tanks and remove the cruising anchor/chain rode when racing (you only need a lightweight hook when racing to keep you from drifting away on those windless days). I even have different batteries (use an outboard so starting an engine isn't an issue for me) one is s standard 45lb deep cycle for cruising. I also have a 11lb lawnmower battery that I use when racing. All it's for is to keep the instruments and vhf running for the duration of the race. Also be sure to have the head tank pumped and remove anything "cruising" related, but just when racing. I typically have a stationwagon load or two (1973 Volvo with the 6' long payload) filled with items I add for cruising or remove for racing. Hope this wasn't to convoluted. If you're seriously intersted in mostly racing the boat, focus more on deck rigging, sails and "go faster" improvements. If you make the cruising stuff lightweight or removable, then you can have a good duel purpose boat. Cheers, Scott S. Cal 25 #1651 Indefatigable Annapolis, MD >From: "slickbutfoxbuger" <Sl… [at] aol.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] a sailing race question? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:56:27 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) > >hello to EveryOne..... > > > > if I want to race my Cal-28, and at the same time, I also want to add >tank's and a chain locker in the keel. as well as changing the inside of >the >main cabin, and possibly the cockpit too. will that dis-qualify the boat as >what it is/was in it's class. mind you, I have never raced before, and know >nothing about it. so, what can one change, and what can't one change? I >guess that mite be a better way of putting it....... > > > > > > > >fiver, > >Master of The "BB-54" > >one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks > >out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) > >now resting outside my shop > >Federal Way, Wa. > > > >(built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ><< faint_grain.jpg >> ><< 110104~2.GIF >>

We had an interesting issue regarding displacement and Cal-40's here in SoCal. Hull #1 was something of a prototype, but was always treated as a Cal-40 by the class and by PHRF even though her displacement (approximately 14,800) was roughly 500 pounds lighter than the boats built just after her, and nearly 800 pounds lighter than the boats later in the production run. Several Cal-40s now weigh over 16,000, and a few weigh more than 17,000. It was "common knowledge" that #1 had 500 pounds less lead. And then people started customizing. Almost all of the boats (except #1) now weigh more than the early stock boat, which had just a few winches, no radio or electronics, two small batteries, a small two-burner alcohol stove (without oven) and relatively small fuel and water tanks. The stern pulpit was an option, and none of the boats were launched with double life-lines. Of course no battery chargers, inverters, carpet, stereo, etc. etc. We solved the problem in our local fleet by requiring a maximum floating height, combining the measurements at the bow and stern. Anything over that would indicate that the boat was too light. We use this number for our class championships. On Radiant, we have to top-off our fuel tank and leave the carpet in place to "make weight". PHRF of SoCal was advised of this situation several times, but never came to terms with this weight difference, and still accepts 14,800 as a legitimate Cal-40 weight for Hull #1. Fin Beven ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Sauvageot To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] a sailing race question? Hi, As someone who started racing a Cal 25 about 3 years ago, I can tell you that racing and cruising are totally different animals. For racing, you want to keep the boat as light as possible. My 25 has few "cruising" features beyond what is fleet required (stove, working sink head, basic cushions). I've managed to cut the racing weight down quite handily, but I've resigned myself to sparce living when cruising (It is, after all a Cal 25). If you are considering one design racing the Cal 28 (not sure how many are close to you to compete against) then modifications like changing the interior or modifying the cockpit will disqualify you. In our fleet, I could in theory modify my interior as long is I converted it to another factory configuration for the Cal 25. If I removed all bunks and galley, and decided to put in stringers for stiffness (basically making an empty cavern for racing) then the boat would be tossed out in a heartbeat. If you are planning to race the boat as a handicap PHRF entry, then the modifications are allowed, you just have to declare them when you request a rating. Another serious option is to drain the water tanks and remove the cruising anchor/chain rode when racing (you only need a lightweight hook when racing to keep you from drifting away on those windless days). I even have different batteries (use an outboard so starting an engine isn't an issue for me) one is s standard 45lb deep cycle for cruising. I also have a 11lb lawnmower battery that I use when racing. All it's for is to keep the instruments and vhf running for the duration of the race. Also be sure to have the head tank pumped and remove anything "cruising" related, but just when racing. I typically have a stationwagon load or two (1973 Volvo with the 6' long payload) filled with items I add for cruising or remove for racing. Hope this wasn't to convoluted. If you're seriously intersted in mostly racing the boat, focus more on deck rigging, sails and "go faster" improvements. If you make the cruising stuff lightweight or removable, then you can have a good duel purpose boat. Cheers, Scott S. Cal 25 #1651 Indefatigable Annapolis, MD >From: "slickbutfoxbuger" <Sl… [at] aol.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] a sailing race question? >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:56:27 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) > >hello to EveryOne..... > > > > if I want to race my Cal-28, and at the same time, I also want to add >tank's and a chain locker in the keel. as well as changing the inside of >the >main cabin, and possibly the cockpit too. will that dis-qualify the boat as >what it is/was in it's class. mind you, I have never raced before, and know >nothing about it. so, what can one change, and what can't one change? I >guess that mite be a better way of putting it....... > > > > > > > >fiver, > >Master of The "BB-54" > >one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks > >out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) > >now resting outside my shop > >Federal Way, Wa. > > > >(built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ><< faint_grain.jpg >> ><< 110104~2.GIF >> Yahoo! Groups Links

no, You were not convoluted at all; it was very easy for me to follow your logic, and whats more; it was exactly what i wanted to know. i have always felt that the only skookum way to build or re- build a sailboat was with top-quality deck gear, and lightweight materials (as much as possible). to be honest, i have been collecting some of the gear for several years now. i have a complete suite of lumare racing series 60mm high-load alloy blocks. i bought them right when lumare introduced the line, and was selling them at around $13 a shive. two months back, the local westmarine was closing out their stock of New England Ropes Endura-12. they had about 1/2 a spool of 5/16" @ a little over 50 cents a foot. so i got the whole spool. before that, i had figured to use wire halyards as old bronze wire wenches are cheap in the seattle area, and that was the best i could do. but stuff comes to those who wait, and watch. wire would have been good, if not a bit old-school, but this is much better. before the boat sees that water again, she will have all new standing and running rigging (except for a suite of sails). all new wiring, lighting and nav-lights. a split electrical buss, and a full suite of the best personally rebuilt hand-picked Raytheon electronics. and it is plained that she will have a *forward mounted* Kubota diesel as well. the deck will boast a full set a Bowmar low- profile cast aluminum frame hatch's with lexon lights. and it is my hope to have located by that time; replacement cast SS rectangular opening side ports for the boat. but some of the finer points such as the steering gear, i have been rethinking as of late. my first choice was a worm-gear for strength and zero feed-back. but listening to the talk around here about needing to feel the helm's *weather*. and doing some other reading, i am beginning to wonder about my choice. i do want a fully mechanical system for reliability. so hydraulic is out. so it is really just a matter of if i want the feed-back or not. now as to the extra weight; i am not really going to add weight so much as move it around. the stuff that is built into the boats at the factory is done to save money at time of construction. and to use standardized parts as much as possible. no one could afford the boat if it was all just the prefect configuration. i on the other hand, am under no such restraint. and as you have shown me already; what i am planing will disqualify the boat under the one-class rules anyway. also, it's really nice living near a place like Boeing. this as one can find many light-weight building materials in their surplus yard for little or nothing. and watching aircraft construction can give one a lot of good ideas on how to save weight on boats. with the Cal-28, weight is not exactly a bad thing to a point. it's where one puts the weight that can make it good, or bad. at lest that is what my calculations have suggested to me. but they were rough at best. i do Thank You for Your response; it was most enlightening.... fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now resting outside my shop Federal Way, Wa. (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ********************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Scott Sauvageot" <rxnumbercruncher@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > As someone who started racing a Cal 25 about 3 years ago, I can tell you > that racing and cruising are totally different animals. For racing, you > want to keep the boat as light as possible. My 25 has few "cruising" > features beyond what is fleet required (stove, working sink head, basic > cushions). I've managed to cut the racing weight down quite handily, but > I've resigned myself to sparce living when cruising (It is, after all a Cal > 25). > > If you are considering one design racing the Cal 28 (not sure how many are > close to you to compete against) then modifications like changing the > interior or modifying the cockpit will disqualify you. In our fleet, I > could in theory modify my interior as long is I converted it to another > factory configuration for the Cal 25. If I removed all bunks and galley, > and decided to put in stringers for stiffness (basically making an empty > cavern for racing) then the boat would be tossed out in a heartbeat. > > If you are planning to race the boat as a handicap PHRF entry, then the > modifications are allowed, you just have to declare them when you request a > rating. > > Another serious option is to drain the water tanks and remove the cruising > anchor/chain rode when racing (you only need a lightweight hook when racing > to keep you from drifting away on those windless days). I even have > different batteries (use an outboard so starting an engine isn't an issue > for me) one is s standard 45lb deep cycle for cruising. I also have a 11lb > lawnmower battery that I use when racing. All it's for is to keep the > instruments and vhf running for the duration of the race. Also be sure to > have the head tank pumped and remove anything "cruising" related, but just > when racing. I typically have a stationwagon load or two (1973 Volvo with > the 6' long payload) filled with items I add for cruising or remove for > racing. > > Hope this wasn't to convoluted. If you're seriously intersted in mostly > racing the boat, focus more on deck rigging, sails and "go faster" > improvements. If you make the cruising stuff lightweight or removable, then > you can have a good duel purpose boat. > > Cheers, > Scott S. > Cal 25 #1651 Indefatigable > Annapolis, MD > >