Re: [Cal_Boats] A Question for The Group....?

This subject comes up on the list once or twice a year, and the answers from the rest of us are always the same, "why would you want to change from tiller steering to a wheel". I have had tiller steering on the two boats I have owned, and at first, I was wanting a wheel, only because I felt there were better options for auto pilots. The one I had, pretty much sucked and could not keep up, but on my second boat, I spent the money on a good auto pilot which, to me, made a big difference. There are many good reasons for sticking with a tiller, but to me one of the biggest is the turning radius. Wheels are usually limited compared to tillers. Being able to turn hard and fast has come in handy many times, one is, if you are sailing into your slip and are running a little hot, you can crank the helm hard over and bleed off speed or even stop the boat. For racing, a tiller is also preferred by many. I know of a couple of people who have wheels and have talked about switching, but it is a lot of work and sometimes it better to go sailing rather than constantly modify the boat. So back to the same old question, Why would you want to switch to a wheel? Daniel Casey "Air Time" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

I'd have to agree with this. The new Cal39 I'm getting has a wheel, and that's ok, but I do prefer a tiller, especially on boats less than 36 feet or so. Makes single-handing easier--you can move around the cockpit, not stuck back at the wheel. Lots less stuff to break. Another small advantage is the tiller flips up at the end of the day, makes the cockpit more open. I'll miss the tiller--but not enough to tear out the wheel. bw ----- Original Message ----- From: ai… [at] aol.com To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] A Question for The Group....? This subject comes up on the list once or twice a year, and the answers from the rest of us are always the same, "why would you want to change from tiller steering to a wheel". I have had tiller steering on the two boats I have owned, and at first, I was wanting a wheel, only because I felt there were better options for auto pilots. The one I had, pretty much sucked and could not keep up, but on my second boat, I spent the money on a good auto pilot which, to me, made a big difference. There are many good reasons for sticking with a tiller, but to me one of the biggest is the turning radius. Wheels are usually limited compared to tillers. Being able to turn hard and fast has come in handy many times, one is, if you are sailing into your slip and are running a little hot, you can crank the helm hard over and bleed off speed or even stop the boat. For racing, a tiller is also preferred by many. I know of a couple of people who have wheels and have talked about switching, but it is a lot of work and sometimes it better to go sailing rather than constantly modify the boat. So back to the same old question, Why would you want to switch to a wheel? Daniel Casey "Air Time" Cal 9.2R #75 Santa Barbara, Ca.

I would only add, that I have done a lot of sailing around the islands on my good friends CAL34, that has the original tiller. I do like how you can really feel the surge and the movement of the boat through your hands.. But on long cruises I have manned the tiller for 6 hour stretches in rough seas and strong winds, and man it gets to wearing on you. When i got my CAL29 it came with a brand new wheel. The PO converted the boat to a wheel before I bought it. Its a much bigger wheel than what was installed on the CAL2-29s. I even thought about changing it back. But after sailing some long trips with the wheel, its an arm saver to say the least.. And i love being able to lock the wheel and run around the boat doing things. I do like the wheel now, much more than the tiller.. but the tiller still looks so much nicer on the boats that have them. I would say, tough call.. Happy Sailing Eric Jackson BAREFOOT 1971 CAL 29 #316 Channel Islands CA On Oct 12, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bob Walden wrote: > > I'd have to agree with this. The new Cal39 I'm getting has a wheel, > and that's ok, but I do prefer a tiller, especially on boats less > than 36 feet or so. Makes single-handing easier--you can move > around the cockpit, not stuck back at the wheel. Lots less stuff to > break. Another small advantage is the tiller flips up at the end of > the day, makes the cockpit more open. > > I'll miss the tiller--but not enough to tear out the wheel. > > bw > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ai… [at] aol.com > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:16 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] A Question for The Group....? > > This subject comes up on the list once or twice a year, and the > answers from the rest of us are always the same, "why would you > want to change from tiller steering to a wheel". I have had tiller > steering on the two boats I have owned, and at first, I was wanting > a wheel, only because I felt there were better options for auto > pilots. The one I had, pretty much sucked and could not keep up, > but on my second boat, I spent the money on a good auto pilot > which, to me, made a big difference. There are many good reasons > for sticking with a tiller, but to me one of the biggest is the > turning radius. Wheels are usually limited compared to tillers. > Being able to turn hard and fast has come in handy many times, one > is, if you are sailing into your slip and are running a little hot, > you can crank the helm hard over and bleed off speed or even stop > the boat. For racing, a tiller is also preferred by many. I know of > a couple of people who have wheels and have talked about switching, > but it is a lot of work and sometimes it better to go sailing > rather than constantly modify the boat. > So back to the same old question, Why would you want to switch to a > wheel? > > Daniel Casey > "Air Time" > Cal 9.2R #75 > Santa Barbara, Ca. > >

Eric Jackson wrote: > > And i love being able to lock the wheel and run around the boat doing > things. > That is a real advantage. But many tiller-steered boats can get the same effect by using the Davis Tiller-Tender (or is it Tiller-Tamer??), the device that uses a line running athwartships and through a friction device on the tiller. It holds the tiller where you set it if cranked snug, or you can adjust for varying slippage. One came on my Cal 20 and I love it. I can balance the boat pretty well with tiller and sail adjustments and it will jog along nicely, heading up a little and falling off a little while I tend to things. If anybody wants to install one, let me know and I'll send you some advice on set-up. Chris Campbell

that sounds like a great option.. i wish my buddies 34 had that. Eric Jackson On Oct 12, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Chris Campbell wrote: > Eric Jackson wrote: >> And i love being able to lock the wheel and run around the boat >> doing things. > > > That is a real advantage. But many tiller-steered boats can get > the same effect by using the Davis Tiller-Tender (or is it Tiller- > Tamer??), the device that uses a line running athwartships and > through a friction device on the tiller. It holds the tiller where > you set it if cranked snug, or you can adjust for varying > slippage. One came on my Cal 20 and I love it. I can balance the > boat pretty well with tiller and sail adjustments and it will jog > along nicely, heading up a little and falling off a little while I > tend to things. > > If anybody wants to install one, let me know and I'll send you some > advice on set-up. > > Chris Campbell > >

Gruppe: Before I post on this topic, allow me to introduce myself. I'm Jon Brush, sail Cal 21 Hull#508 ("Repose"), out of Shelter Island NY. I haven't been boating long but enjoy the handling and drive of even this small trailer-sailer. I got the Davis "Tiller-Tamer" for my boat and find that it works well. Would love to see some pics of your setup, Chris. My lines run to jam cleats at the thwarts. Jon --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: But many tiller-steered boats can get the > same effect by using the Davis Tiller-Tender (or is it Tiller- Tamer??),

Jonathan Brush wrote: > > I got the Davis "Tiller-Tamer" for my boat and find that it works > well. Would love to see some pics of your setup, Chris. My lines run > to jam cleats at the thwarts. > Jon: I have not entered the digital image age yet, and besides, the boat is under her winter cover and the rudder and tiller are in the garage now. But Ill tell you that the original owner had the great idea of mounting the device on the underside of the tiller, not on top as the instructions direct. That puts it out of view and out of UV. He also glued some cheeks on the tiller where the device sits, to support it better. Mine runs from a mooring cleat on one side to a little cam cleat on the other. That makes it mostly a straight line across (perpendicular to the tiller in the horizontal plane). That's not good, because the line gets tighter as the tiller is deflected farther from the centerline. So this summer I tucked the lines behind the spinnaker sheet blocks on either side. These are farther aft. The effect is not quite the 45° angle the instructions call for, but it's close. The line still is secured to the mooring cleat on one side and the cam cleat on the other, but they are detoured via the spin. sheet blocks. The little cam cleat must have been installed to allow slacking the control line slightly. what I use it for, at least. When the line is taut, the motion is much stiffer. When it's slackened some, just a little, the motion is much freer and is almost completely controlled by the friction knob. My warning to all is _don't step or kneel or sit on those control lines_. This will put excess tension on them and will break the plastic sides on the tiller-mounted device. I have learned that the hard way x 2. Chris Campbell

Chris, Thanks for your reply. My lines are at more of a 45degree, and I do slacken them to ease the effort. Good idea about the bottom mount, too late for me... Jon On 10/12/06, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Jon: > > I have not entered the digital image age yet, and besides, the boat is > under her winter cover and the rudder and tiller are in the garage now. > > But Ill tell you that the original owner had the great idea of mounting > the device on the underside of the tiller, not on top as the instructions > direct. That puts it out of view and out of UV. He also glued some cheeks > on the tiller where the device sits, to support it better. > > Mine runs from a mooring cleat on one side to a little cam cleat on the > other. That makes it mostly a straight line across (perpendicular to the > tiller in the horizontal plane). That's not good, because the line gets > tighter as the tiller is deflected farther from the centerline. So this > summer I tucked the lines behind the spinnaker sheet blocks on either side. > These are farther aft. The effect is not quite the 45° angle the > instructions call for, but it's close. The line still is secured to the > mooring cleat on one side and the cam cleat on the other, but they are > detoured via the spin. sheet blocks. > > The little cam cleat must have been installed to allow slacking the > control line slightly. what I use it for, at least. When the line is taut, > the motion is much stiffer. When it's slackened some, just a little, the > motion is much freer and is almost completely controlled by the friction > knob. > > My warning to all is *don't step or kneel or sit on those control lines*. > This will put excess tension on them and will break the plastic sides on the > tiller-mounted device. I have learned that the hard way x 2. > > Chris Campbell > > >

You can get the same effect by just passing a line around the tiller a couple of times, with the ends at cleats, winches, whatever is handy. Forespar also makes a telescoping tiller extender, with a matching lockbox that is let into the combing. This is nice as it can be used to lock the tiller, or just as an extension. On my 2-27, I used to like to lie along the seat, with my back propped up on the Life-Sling bag (which was on the inboard side of the rails), using the tiller extension to steer. Very comfortable and relaxing. It is more expensive though, some where around $100 US, plus cutting a hole in the combing. Thomas Downing 87 Aloha 32 'Telyos' Black Rock, CT From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of Chris Campbell Sent: Thu 10/12/2006 2:54 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] A Question for The Group....? Eric Jackson wrote: > > And i love being able to lock the wheel and run around the boat doing > things. > That is a real advantage. But many tiller-steered boats can get the same effect by using the Davis Tiller-Tender (or is it Tiller-Tamer??), the device that uses a line running athwartships and through a friction device on the tiller. It holds the tiller where you set it if cranked snug, or you can adjust for varying slippage. One came on my Cal 20 and I love it. I can balance the boat pretty well with tiller and sail adjustments and it will jog along nicely, heading up a little and falling off a little while I tend to things. If anybody wants to install one, let me know and I'll send you some advice on set-up. Chris Campbell DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.