Cal 39-2 Mast Step Leaks

Howdy all; Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and crank down the bolts. Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? bw Cal 39-2 "Sea Star"

I have spar tight and it may leak a tiny bit but vasoline usually seals it again. Mike Kennedy Conquest cal 40 # 96 On Oct 21, 2006, at 9:00 PM, Bob Walden wrote: > > Howdy all; > > Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF > bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but > otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. > > One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights > and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, > but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a > integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted > with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of > caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, > but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. > > Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap > between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? > > All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some > wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new > lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a > pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and > crank down the bolts. > > Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, > but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the > mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? > > bw > > Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" > >

The best way to fix this would be to take the mast off, or just have them lift it up while you take the flange off and rebed. Greg 1977Cal 34III ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Walden To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:00 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2 Mast Step Leaks Howdy all; Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and crank down the bolts. Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? bw Cal 39-2 "Sea Star"

My experience with the flange on my 39 is that the bolts are the source of the leak, so make sure that they are well bedded (remove them only one at time as small movements of the boat will cause the holes to go out of alignment and you'll never get the bolts back in). The next time you pull the mast, you can run a bead of caulk around the deck opening as well (don't' use anything with any real adhesive property - it's amazing what a tight bond can be formed here - at least once I had a real problem removing the mast because of this). It's not ideal, but a small bead of caulk around the outside edge of the mast flange should stop any remaining water until you pull the mast next time. Bob Andrew Cal 39 Nereid From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Walden Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:01 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2 Mast Step Leaks Howdy all; Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and crank down the bolts. Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? bw Cal 39-2 "Sea Star"

If you do that, look into spar tite. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Oct 22, 2006, at 5:46 AM, Sail Away wrote: > > The best way to fix this would be to take the mast off, or just > have them lift it up while you take the flange off and rebed. > > Greg > 1977Cal 34III > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob Walden > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:00 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2 Mast Step Leaks > > > Howdy all; > > Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF > bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but > otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. > > One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights > and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, > but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a > integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted > with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of > caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, > but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. > > Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap > between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? > > All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some > wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new > lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a > pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and > crank down the bolts. > > Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, > but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the > mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? > > bw > > Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" > > >

A lot of firsts for us this weekend. The marina was getting huffy and wanted the boat registration, so I made a special Friday daytime trip to San Diego to hang at DMV. California DMV originally told me I could not register the boat in CA unless I was a resident with a CA license. That didn't sound right, so I called AZ Game & Fish. AZ told me that if the boat was staying in CA, that I had to register it there. Catch-22. Turns out, CA was wrong. It took about 30 minutes at the DMV and I was done. The weather was beautiful, about 84 F, and hanging on the boat alone was no fun, so I asked Debbie to waste money and fly out from Phoenix. Saturday was a great day in the making, or so we thought. We were out in the bay sailing with just a 150 genoa, no main, when we unavoidably crossed paths with a regatta, or two, of catamarans. There must have been close to forty of them. We hadn't had a decent opportunity to pull into the wind yet to raise the main. I didn't want to try it in the middle of the race course. First we had to clear the narrow channel, the abandoned floating house of ill repute, and the other hulks in the bay. The cats were none too happy to see us lounging through "their course" (they took up the whole south bay, blasting from one side to the other). "Hey, there's a race going on!" The finer points of right of way were temporarily lost on me as they bore down on us from all directions. There were either two races, or two groups in the same race. Actually, some looked like Hobies, and others looked like Prindles, so must have been two. I figured we'd just do our best to keep out of their way, if possible. Debbie was at the helm and panicked a bit when they ran down on us. At one point, still without a main and just putzing along, we tried to come about to avoid problems with the leader of the pack cutting across our bow. Instead, we jibed. Things got a bit tense. Debbie abandoned her post and simply walked away from the tiller after confusing "push it away from you" with "pull it to you." We recovered in time to hear the leader yell out, "thank you," as she blasted by. None of them ever had to alter course on our behalf. It reminded me of high school on the Potomac racing Mobjacks, becalmed, watching the catamarans zoom by as though motor powered. There was obviously still something about hull speed I did not comprehend. In moving around the deck, freeing jib lines caught on the rigging, I dropped back into the cockpit and my butt hit the tiller. I heard a loud crack and realized I'd busted the tiller. Luckily it just split along the layers of wood and remained attached. I tapped it gently back together with a hammer and lashed it into place. All was good. Debbie looked at me and said that if she'd done that, that I'd never let her hear then end of it. I'd like to think that she was wrong, but she's probably right. Objection! Calls for speculation! We were on the north side of the Coronado Bridge when I broke the tiller. We'd been monitoring the radio, and Debbie heard repeated claims about fog on the water up by Oceanside, about 35 miles north of San Diego. A look around at the horizon revealed only a brown winter inversion layer of smog. Debbie has asthma, and she was suffering from the poor air quality. She kept saying there was no fog, and that it was smog. I agreed. More radio traffic rang out about fog. With the broken tiller, we came about and headed back towards the catamaran racers and the marina. When we came about, we noticed we couldn't see the end of the bay any more. Just kind of hazy down south, and not really brown, either. Tijuana was no longer visible. More radio traffic about fog. We saw fog. We fired up the Nissan. We still had all of south bay to travel and most boats had vanished. A big power boat roared by creating big waves. We banged through them, hoping the mast would stay up. We heard interesting motor noises that quickly vanished. The fog was now pouring into the south bay over the Silver Strand beach strip that separates the bay from Coronado and the Pacific. Thick fog. We pulled out the GPS, the fog horn, and the plastic cheat sheet on what to do in the fog. No other boats were visible, so I headed toward the Navy ships docked along the channel. They loomed larger than ever, their silhouettes barely visible in the fog. They looked like ghost ships. We could barely see the sailors with their rifles standing watch on two smaller aircraft carriers, reminding us we could not get too close. As long as I could make out the Navy, I knew, more or less, where the narrow south bay channel should be. We putted along, fog horn in hand and ringing our bell, still able to see about 50 yards. It was getting worse, so Debbie read the GPS, telling me where the bouys to the channel were. Miss the channel in the south bay, and you are in the mud. Her GPS interpretation conflicted with my memory. Debbie thought the bouys warning of the shallows and sunken boats were the channel markers. She kept pointing the GPS at me, saying, "look for yourself." I pretended to look (without reading glasses, I couldn't see a thing). The GPS was still new to us, so I swore she was wrong, and I prayed I was right. I went with my memory. We were in the channel and made it into the marina, the last boat off the water. We had a guy dive the boat while we talked to others about getting caught by the fog. Another guy in a Cal 2-25 elected not to head towards the Navy and went into the mud a week after a new $600 bottom paint job. He managed to get out. A long time marina resident, he said he'd never seen fog anything like that before in the bay. We went back out after the fog lifted. Great wind and sailing. The races over, we practiced tacking back and forth and Debbie's handling of the large genoa improved a lot. A neighbor sailed by and commented the genoa must have been the original that came with the boat in 1965. When we hauled the outboard out of the water, we discovered one stainless steel fin on my new power thruster broke off, taking a chunk of the original Nissan housing with it. I took the tiller off and brought it home to reconstruct. Recommendations on best glue to use appreciated. As bad as all that sounds, we both enjoyed this trip a lot. Debbie particularly enjoyed tacking once she had her timing down. She watched some of the women racers round the bouys, and watched as they attacked and lowered their jibs to hoist their spinnakers. I think it inspired her. She also enjoyed this trip because before she arrived, I went to Starbucks and had them grind up some beans. She didn't like my Nescafe. Her coffee on the boat in the morning saved me a daily drive and money. It was a win-win. She made some remark about being shocked that I had not been true to my Scottish heritage. Sorry for the long post. Bruce Stirling Gangfurd Cal 28 - Hull 82 http://www.stirlinglaw.com

Bruce Stirling wrote: > > > > Saturday was a great day in the making, or so we thought. We were out > in the bay sailing with just a 150 genoa, no main, when we unavoidably > crossed paths with a regatta, or two, of catamarans. There must have > been close to forty of them. We hadn't had a decent opportunity to > pull into the wind yet to raise the main. I didn't want to try it in > the middle of the race course. First we had to clear the narrow > channel, the abandoned floating house of ill repute, and the other > hulks in the bay. The cats were none too happy to see us lounging > through "their course" (they took up the whole south bay, blasting > from one side to the other). "Hey, there's a race going on!" The > finer points of right of way were temporarily lost on me as they bore > down on us from all directions. I have the same problem with my Cal 20. The local YC's Wed. night races are often just outside my mooring field, and I have to cross the course of one or another of their classes just to get away from the race. I finally adopted a semi-hell-with-'em attitude--"I'm trying to get out of your way but you're everywhere." I'll luff up or fall off as necessary to avoid making them alter course, if I have room, and it makes them nervous to have me out there, that's their problem. And on the subject of your 1965 genoa--my other boat has one that's about 180% and is original to the 1961 boat. It's OK in light air. Chris Campbell

Bob, Glad to hear you had a good trip north. You said that the mast was leaking at the step and then discussed the deck flange. Just to clarify, is the leak at the deck level or at the cabin sole (where it is stepped) ? There is a sponge rubber gasket under the flange. However when re-stepped my mast I covered the flange and all the bolts with 3M 5200. I've has no leak problems at deck level. If your leak is at the cabin top you could remove the bolts (one or two on port side are actually screws as bolts would interfere with the head partition.), loosen the shrouds and stays, jack up the mast an inch or two (push up on the halyard winches, use some planks to distribute the load on the deck) clean and and liberally calk the flange joint. ( I wouldn't recommend trying to deform the cabin top to create enough working space to re-calk. Loosen the stays/shrouds.) Rather than 3M 5200, I would recommend you use something with UV resistance, as the bead you would leave around the flange is exposed. 5200 yellows. In the case of water at the cabin sole: Does your mast have internal halyards? The exit holes would let in water which then runs down inside the mast and has to drain at the step. You may have a clogged (or no) drain into the bilge in the step bracket. I have external halyards and virtually no unsealed holes in the mast, only the halyard sheaves which are reasonably well covered over at the mast head. I have a very dry mast step. One port in particular is another matter. BTW Steve Terry's "Osprey" #82 and Jim Williams "Spindrift" #105 don't have the flange. Cal apparently changed the approach sometime in 1979. Good luck, Duane Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA At 09:00 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote: >Howdy all; > >Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF >bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but >otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. > >One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights >and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, >but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a integrated >flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted with about 8 >bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of caulking between >the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, but enough that >I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. > >Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap >between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? > >All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some >wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new >lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a >pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and >crank down the bolts. > >Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, >but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the mast, >and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? > >bw > >Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" > Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA

Every now and then you run into a company that will really help you choose the right material at the right price. For adhesives and the like, I strongly encourage you to check out this site: http://www.glueguru.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/index.htm Have experienced very good success with them in an over-the-phone consulting capacity to help choose the right adhesive for the particular application. They are also a good source in that they will break a case lot, which most high-tech suppliers will not. We use ITW Plexus MA-300 a great deal for marine assembly applications and you generally can't go wrong with something that has a bond strength and shear value like that of a welded steel. Plexus also makes an expanding adhesive that is really great for closing up leaky hull/deck joints. One warning: Once it's there, it's really there. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

Great ideas, Duane, thanks. Yes, the leak is at deck level. I like your idea of jacking the mast up. I would think an inch would be sufficient. Is the step bolted down to the keel? ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Knize To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2 Mast Step Leaks Bob, Glad to hear you had a good trip north. You said that the mast was leaking at the step and then discussed the deck flange. Just to clarify, is the leak at the deck level or at the cabin sole (where it is stepped) ? There is a sponge rubber gasket under the flange. However when re-stepped my mast I covered the flange and all the bolts with 3M 5200. I've has no leak problems at deck level. If your leak is at the cabin top you could remove the bolts (one or two on port side are actually screws as bolts would interfere with the head partition.), loosen the shrouds and stays, jack up the mast an inch or two (push up on the halyard winches, use some planks to distribute the load on the deck) clean and and liberally calk the flange joint. ( I wouldn't recommend trying to deform the cabin top to create enough working space to re-calk. Loosen the stays/shrouds.) Rather than 3M 5200, I would recommend you use something with UV resistance, as the bead you would leave around the flange is exposed. 5200 yellows. In the case of water at the cabin sole: Does your mast have internal halyards? The exit holes would let in water which then runs down inside the mast and has to drain at the step. You may have a clogged (or no) drain into the bilge in the step bracket. I have external halyards and virtually no unsealed holes in the mast, only the halyard sheaves which are reasonably well covered over at the mast head. I have a very dry mast step. One port in particular is another matter. BTW Steve Terry's "Osprey" #82 and Jim Williams "Spindrift" #105 don't have the flange. Cal apparently changed the approach sometime in 1979. Good luck, Duane Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA At 09:00 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote: Howdy all; Well, we brought our new (to us) Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" up to the SF bay area this week. Minor excitement rounding Conception, but otherwise straightforward 5 day trip with a layover in Morro Bay. One thing we've learned is that we have leaks around the portlights and mast step. I think I can re-bed the portlights fairly easily, but the mast-step is something new. The Cal 39 mast has a integrated flange that sits on the cabin top and is through-bolted with about 8 bolts. There's no mast boot. There's some type of caulking between the cabintop and the flange. It leaks, not a lot, but enough that I'd like to fix it before the winter rains set in. Any tips? I'm baffled by this one. How can I create enough of a gap between the flange and the cabin-top to inject some caulking? All I can think of is to loosen all the through-bolts and use some wedges to create a gap, dig out the old caulk, squirt some new lifecaulk in, ease the wedges enough to squeeze the caulk into a pad, let it cure for a couple days, and then pull the wedges and crank down the bolts. Would that work? I'm worried the wedges will scar up the gelcoat, but the only other option seems to involve a crane to lift the mast, and that seems crazy just to stop a leak. Any ideas? bw Cal 39-2 "Sea Star" Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA

Duane Knize wrote: > > However when re-stepped my mast I covered the flange and all the bolts > with 3M 5200. > I've has no leak problems at deck level. > > Rather than 3M 5200, I would recommend you use something with UV > resistance, as the bead you would leave around the flange is exposed. > 5200 yellows. > I am the resident 5200 alarmist, so I'll point out that you use this stuff only where you'll never need to get the parts separated again, ever. It's vastly tenacious and parts will usually break before they come apart. Yes, there are supposed solvents and yes, you can sometimes cut the goo, but sometimes not. The solvent requires applying, prying, and reapplying _ad_ _infinitum_. Cutting can be hard if it's a thin layer of 5200. It's far better to avoid the stuff in the first place except where permanent adhesion is desired. You can buy 3M 4000, a polyether sealer with (they say) far less tenacity, or buy Boatlife polysulfide, which surely has much less but retains flexibility. Chris Campbell