Re: Stay sail (Bruce/Roger)

Hi Bruce, This is in good condition, it is a spinnaker staysail(Roger will have to explain to both of us), It is red white and blue, looks like a 130 on my boat, but it is about 4 feet to short for me. it has two small stains. The hard ware is a little corroded blue. The guy has a spinnaker and pole as well. But Eric had forst dibs on that. I don't know if he thinks they are to small for his boat. Sorry for the delay, I am out of town. I lost my father. Randy CAL 2-29 Out Patient --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Randy, > > I have the Cal 29 stay sail purchased from Rog. It is probably in the > nicest shape of all the sails received, but then again, I wouldn't > necessarily know. Rog let me know which one was the stay sail, which is > clearly marked on the bag. I'd pulled all sails out at once in the backyard > and mixed them up. Anyway, contact me off the list to set up a swap if you > have a real Cal 28 sail. > > Bruce Stirling > bruce @ stirlinglaw.com {remove spaces} > 602.460.5631 cell phone > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Rog Jones > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:59 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stay sail (Roger) > > > > Hi, Randy - > > > > Check with Bruce Stirling. > > > > He bought them. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > ---- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Randy Alcorn > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:03 PM > To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stay sail (Roger) > > > > Hi Roger, > > > > Did anything ever come out of those sails you had. I think you said you had > a stay sail. I think it was Bruce(?) that bought them. I came across a CAL > 28 staysail I can trade for the CAL 29 stay sail. It looks like it it in > decent condition. Just a couple of small stains. > > > > Randy > > CAL 2-29 > > Out Patient > > Channel Islands > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > ---- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. >

Randy - I am so sorry for you. Please know we are all with you in this. The best to your family from your Cal friends. \Rog

Randy, I sorry to hear about your father. My father died in 2002, before I ever bought a boat. He would have enjoyed her. Those on the list who sail with their fathers/sons are truly fortunate. I'd be happy to swap, but it sounds like only Roger knows what we have. His stay sail was the cleanest of the sails received. I don't recall any marks on it, apart from anything that may have dirtied it a bit as it lay out in my back yard. I folded it back up in the front yard and recall wiping off dust as I folded, but that was from laying on the ground for a few minutes out front while I begged Debbie to help me. I was preparing for the installation of a sprinkler system. There wasn't a lot of grass left. Had to rope off the whole area last night for Halloween with yellow caution tape to keep from getting sued. Lit up like Stalag 17 with halogen bulbs. My address is already all over the web, so I don't mind telling you here: 33 West Willetta Stree, Phoenix, Arizona 85003. If you'd like, I could send you the stay sail to see how she fits on your boat before swapping. You tell me. You can send me your address offline to: bruce @ stirlinglaw.com (remove spaces). Or you can call me on my cell phone (602) 460.5631, which is also all over the web. Bruce Stirling Gangfurd Cal 28 - Hull 82 http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Randall Alcorn" <saylorran@...> wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > This is in good condition, it is a spinnaker staysail(Roger will have > to explain to both of us), It is red white and blue, looks like a 130 > on my boat, but it is about 4 feet to short for me. it has two small > stains. The hard ware is a little corroded blue. The guy has a > spinnaker and pole as well. But Eric had forst dibs on that. I don't > know if he thinks they are to small for his boat. > > Sorry for the delay, I am out of town. I lost my father. > > Randy > CAL 2-29 > > Out Patient > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@> wrote: > > > > Randy, > > > > I have the Cal 29 stay sail purchased from Rog. It is probably in > the > > nicest shape of all the sails received, but then again, I wouldn't > > necessarily know. Rog let me know which one was the stay sail, > which is > > clearly marked on the bag. I'd pulled all sails out at once in the > backyard > > and mixed them up. Anyway, contact me off the list to set up a > swap if you > > have a real Cal 28 sail. > > > > Bruce Stirling > > bruce @ stirlinglaw.com {remove spaces} > > 602.460.5631 cell phone > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of Rog Jones > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:59 PM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stay sail (Roger) > > > > > > > > Hi, Randy - > > > > > > > > Check with Bruce Stirling. > > > > > > > > He bought them. > > > > > > > > \Rog > > > > > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > > > Swiss Navy > > > > > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > ---- > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf > > Of Randy Alcorn > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:03 PM > > To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stay sail (Roger) > > > > > > > > Hi Roger, > > > > > > > > Did anything ever come out of those sails you had. I think you said > you had > > a stay sail. I think it was Bruce(?) that bought them. I came > across a CAL > > 28 staysail I can trade for the CAL 29 stay sail. It looks like it > it in > > decent condition. Just a couple of small stains. > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > CAL 2-29 > > > > Out Patient > > > > Channel Islands > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > ---- > > > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone > call rates. > > >

This is a tall spinnaker staysail. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed to do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how should it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, I have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few feet aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by way of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already cutting the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: > This is a tall spinnaker staysail. > > \Rog > > Cal 29+ #1 > Swiss Navy > > Cal 2-30 #77 > St. Lori's Comet > > >

On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the chute. I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, though when out racing on the Bay I'm usually too busy to notice much more than our competition and the bearings to the next ark. Swiss Navy had (and will again have a center track down the foredeck for setting the cars and snatch blocks for the downhaul and for the staysails. I've come to like that arrangement. The only thing I might do differently is to build up a little slope in the deck on each side of the track so you don't trip over it all the time. I used to really bang myself up on that track. I may add some EL lighting in the resulting slot on either side of the track as well, so that you can see to hook up at night. Definitely going to put EL inside the toe rails. Maybe Fin can help with this. He got a lot more time in on the hot boats of the sixties and seventies than I did. They had some truly complex sails. Fin? Fred, cutting the bloopers into riding sails!? Hehehe. That sail was always a pain in the $#* to fly. Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Haas Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stay sail (Randy/Bruce) Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed to do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how should it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, I have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few feet aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by way of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already cutting the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: This is a tall spinnaker staysail. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

I think that staysails have 2 effects, much like a jib: 1. They have a pulling force of their own, such that if you took all other sails down, the staysail would pull the boat forward. 2. They may also have a beneficial effect on the main, the "slot" effect, moving otherwise stalled air away from the back side of the main. 3. So far as I know, a staysail has no beneficial effect relative to the spinnaker. The negative side of staysails is that they divert some attention away from the main and spinnaker, and if the spinnaker collapses, the staysail can significantly prolong the collapse. (blow the staysail sheet, trim the spinnaker, re-trim the staysail). Dealing with staysails can also compromise tactical decisions, as they must be removed before gybing. For these reasons, we do not use staysails on short-course races. But for point-to-point races they are valuable. Our staysail (a "tall boy")is about 10% short of full-hoist, and has an foot length of about 60% of the base of the foretriangle. On a beam-reach, we tack it on centerline. As the pole moves aft, the tack follows it, moving outboard and aft. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA From: "Rog Jones" <ro… [at] nvsailing.org> To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) > On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air > upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the > chute. > I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a > long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, > though when out racing on the Bay I'm usually too busy to notice much more > than our competition and the bearings to the next ark. Swiss Navy had (and > will again have a center track down the foredeck for setting the cars and > snatch blocks for the downhaul and for the staysails. I've come to like > that > arrangement. The only thing I might do differently is to build up a little > slope in the deck on each side of the track so you don't trip over it all > the time. I used to really bang myself up on that track. I may add some EL > lighting in the resulting slot on either side of the track as well, so > that > you can see to hook up at night. Definitely going to put EL inside the toe > rails. > > > > Maybe Fin can help with this. He got a lot more time in on the hot boats > of > the sixties and seventies than I did. They had some truly complex sails. > > > > Fin? > > > > Fred, cutting the bloopers into riding sails!? Hehehe. That sail was > always > a pain in the $#* to fly. > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > _____ > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Fred Haas > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stay sail (Randy/Bruce) > > > > Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... > Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among > them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, > which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed > to > do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how > should > it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, > I > have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few > feet > aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and > spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by > way > of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no > particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already > cutting > the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. > Fred Haas > 3-30 Nemesis > Tacoma > On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: > > This is a tall spinnaker staysail. > > \Rog > > Cal 29+ #1 > Swiss Navy > > Cal 2-30 #77 > St. Lori's Comet > > > >

Hi, Fin - and thanks! Do you run the tallboy tacked to a car on a foredeck track when you are running a symmetrical chute? Do you use it with the asymmetrical? \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet Fin Beven wrote: I think that staysails have 2 effects, much like a jib: 1. They have a pulling force of their own, such that if you took all other sails down, the staysail would pull the boat forward. 2. They may also have a beneficial effect on the main, the "slot" effect, moving otherwise stalled air away from the back side of the main. 3. So far as I know, a staysail has no beneficial effect relative to the spinnaker. The negative side of staysails is that they divert some attention away from the main and spinnaker, and if the spinnaker collapses, the staysail can significantly prolong the collapse. (blow the staysail sheet, trim the spinnaker, re-trim the staysail). Dealing with staysails can also compromise tactical decisions, as they must be removed before gybing. For these reasons, we do not use staysails on short-course races. But for point-to-point races they are valuable. Our staysail (a "tall boy")is about 10% short of full-hoist, and has an foot length of about 60% of the base of the foretriangle. On a beam-reach, we tack it on centerline. As the pole moves aft, the tack follows it, moving outboard and aft. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA

Track seems unnecessary to me. When sailing at 90 AWA, we would have the "tallboy" tacked on centerline, about 30% of "J" back from the bow. We have a folding (Winchard) pad-eye at that point. As the wind moves aft, imagine drawing a radius from that point, using the mast as the center of the radius. Where that radius gets to the rail, we would have another folding pad-eye there, except in our situation, we have a life-line stanchion there, so we just tack the staysail to the ring that is part of the stanchion base. As we switch to the symmetrical as the wind moves aft, we would likely have the tack out by the rail if running with the symmetrical. Fin. From: "Rog Jones" <ro… [at] nvsailing.org> To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tallboy (Fin) > Hi, Fin - and thanks! > > > > Do you run the tallboy tacked to a car on a foredeck track when you are > running a symmetrical chute? Do you use it with the asymmetrical? > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > Fin Beven wrote: > > > I think that staysails have 2 effects, much like a jib: > > 1. They have a pulling force of their own, such that if you took all other > sails down, the staysail would pull the boat forward. > 2. They may also have a beneficial effect on the main, the "slot" effect, > moving otherwise stalled air away from the back side of the main. > 3. So far as I know, a staysail has no beneficial effect relative to the > spinnaker. > > The negative side of staysails is that they divert some attention away > from > the main and spinnaker, and if the spinnaker collapses, the staysail can > significantly prolong the collapse. (blow the staysail sheet, trim the > spinnaker, re-trim the staysail). Dealing with staysails can also > compromise tactical decisions, as they must be removed before gybing. For > these reasons, we do not use staysails on short-course races. > > But for point-to-point races they are valuable. Our staysail (a "tall > boy")is about 10% short of full-hoist, and has an foot length of about 60% > of the base of the foretriangle. On a beam-reach, we tack it on > centerline. > As the pole moves aft, the tack follows it, moving outboard and aft. > > Fin Beven > Cal-40 #24 > Radiant > San Pedro, CA > >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air > upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the chute. > I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a > long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, We used to use them on long races. It's too much trouble for the small speed effect when you are making sail changes or gybing every mile or two. With asymmetricals, they are passe. They are also not much help on reaches and the modern boats are so fast they pull the apparent wind on the beam so you're always reaching. When we used them, we would get the boat going on a long gybe, then we'd check the digital speedo and put the tallboy up. If the speedo went up, we kept it up. If not, we'd take it down. Speaking of boat speed, did anyone else see the Latitude 38 piece on the huge sloop in the Med ? It is 292 feet long and designed by Ron Holland. There was an interview with him and they asked him why the boat sails with a first reef all the time. It turns out that the main on that boat has a huge roach. The mast is 275 feet so that is a BIG roach. Holland said that boats that big have trouble getting going in light air so they set the full main and then, when they are up to 12 knots or so, they reef so the roach will clear the backstay when tacking. If they race, and who the hell races a 292 foot yacht, they reef to tack, then shake it out once they are full and bye. Fortunately, Charlie didn't make me reef the main every time we tacked. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 96

I differ with Mike on the use of staysails and asymmetrics. In my experience, the shape of the asymmetric induces it to project further forward than a symmetric would. This leaves more space between the asymmetric and the main, and therefore a good place for a staysail on a long leg. Most shots I saw of the Volvo 70's showed them using staysails with their asymmetrics, although the staysails they used seemed relatively small. Fin. From: "mtkennedy1" <mt… [at] cox.net> To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > > > On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air > > upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the > > chute. > > I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a > > long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes > > anymore, > > We used to use them on long races. It's too much trouble for the small > speed effect when > you are making sail changes or gybing every mile or two. With > asymmetricals, they are > passe. They are also not much help on reaches and the modern boats are so > fast they pull > the apparent wind on the beam so you're always reaching. > > When we used them, we would get the boat going on a long gybe, then we'd > check the > digital speedo and put the tallboy up. If the speedo went up, we kept it > up. If not, we'd > take it down. > > Speaking of boat speed, did anyone else see the Latitude 38 piece on the > huge sloop in > the Med ? It is 292 feet long and designed by Ron Holland. There was an > interview with > him and they asked him why the boat sails with a first reef all the time. > It turns out that > the main on that boat has a huge roach. The mast is 275 feet so that is a > BIG roach. > Holland said that boats that big have trouble getting going in light air > so they set the full > main and then, when they are up to 12 knots or so, they reef so the roach > will clear the > backstay when tacking. If they race, and who the hell races a 292 foot > yacht, they reef to > tack, then shake it out once they are full and bye. > > Fortunately, Charlie didn't make me reef the main every time we tacked. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 96 > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

My experience with Staysails, spankers, tallboys, is that with their smaller size they are able to fill up quickly and accelerate wind over the luff (power region) of the main. I like to use them whenever the course will allow them to be flown. They seem to produce more main driving power so you can bust though bouncy or choppy seas better. Rating wise, the staysail is "free" so if it increases speed, and stability then a real benefit. Additionally, the staysail also seems to help the boat during a round-up. it blankets the spinnaker, depowering it, while it powers up and keeps forward motion in play, so the boat can be steered back to course. In very heavy weather we fly a 85% "blade" on the forestay, preventing spinnaker head wraps, and as a tool to keep the boat moving so recovery is almost immediate. dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fin Beven Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:37 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) I differ with Mike on the use of staysails and asymmetrics. In my experience, the shape of the asymmetric induces it to project further forward than a symmetric would. This leaves more space between the asymmetric and the main, and therefore a good place for a staysail on a long leg. Most shots I saw of the Volvo 70's showed them using staysails with their asymmetrics, although the staysails they used seemed relatively small. Fin. From: "mtkennedy1" <mt… [at] cox.net <mailto:mtkennedy1%40cox.net> > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > > > On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air > > upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the > > chute. > > I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a > > long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes > > anymore, > > We used to use them on long races. It's too much trouble for the small > speed effect when > you are making sail changes or gybing every mile or two. With > asymmetricals, they are > passe. They are also not much help on reaches and the modern boats are so > fast they pull > the apparent wind on the beam so you're always reaching. > > When we used them, we would get the boat going on a long gybe, then we'd > check the > digital speedo and put the tallboy up. If the speedo went up, we kept it > up. If not, we'd > take it down. > > Speaking of boat speed, did anyone else see the Latitude 38 piece on the > huge sloop in > the Med ? It is 292 feet long and designed by Ron Holland. There was an > interview with > him and they asked him why the boat sails with a first reef all the time. > It turns out that > the main on that boat has a huge roach. The mast is 275 feet so that is a > BIG roach. > Holland said that boats that big have trouble getting going in light air > so they set the full > main and then, when they are up to 12 knots or so, they reef so the roach > will clear the > backstay when tacking. If they race, and who the hell races a 292 foot > yacht, they reef to > tack, then shake it out once they are full and bye. > > Fortunately, Charlie didn't make me reef the main every time we tacked. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 96 > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Rog, do you use any special structural work under the deck to support the srtesses on the foredeck track? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rog Jones Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:57 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the chute. I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, though when out racing on the Bay I'm usually too busy to notice much more than our competition and the bearings to the next ark. Swiss Navy had (and will again have a center track down the foredeck for setting the cars and snatch blocks for the downhaul and for the staysails. I've come to like that arrangement. The only thing I might do differently is to build up a little slope in the deck on each side of the track so you don't trip over it all the time. I used to really bang myself up on that track. I may add some EL lighting in the resulting slot on either side of the track as well, so that you can see to hook up at night. Definitely going to put EL inside the toe rails. Maybe Fin can help with this. He got a lot more time in on the hot boats of the sixties and seventies than I did. They had some truly complex sails. Fin? Fred, cutting the bloopers into riding sails!? Hehehe. That sail was always a pain in the $#* to fly. Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Haas Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stay sail (Randy/Bruce) Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed to do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how should it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, I have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few feet aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by way of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already cutting the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: This is a tall spinnaker staysail. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

Hi, Chas - The Cal 29 had none and it seemed to be fine. The loads don't appear to be very significant. Still, since I have the whole interior gutted at this point, to prevent any chance of flex or pull-through, I am going to strip out the old plywood core (similar to the core you have on the 40) down the center for a span of about 12 inches and replace it with solid laminate, probably with at least one ply of carbon-fiber and KevlarR hybrid. The hull to deck bond is also being reinforced, because I am removing the rubrail and bonding hull to deck like David Owen did on Mariposa. This is, as usual, more for esthetics and the fun of it than anything else, and is undoubtedly overkill. Which boat are you thinking about -- a 25 or the 40? \Rog _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar Charlie Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Staysail Track (Rog) Rog, do you use any special structural work under the deck to support the srtesses on the foredeck track? Cheers Charlie _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rog Jones Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:57 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the chute. I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, though when out racing on the Bay I'm usually too busy to notice much more than our competition and the bearings to the next ark. Swiss Navy had (and will again have a center track down the foredeck for setting the cars and snatch blocks for the downhaul and for the staysails. I've come to like that arrangement. The only thing I might do differently is to build up a little slope in the deck on each side of the track so you don't trip over it all the time. I used to really bang myself up on that track. I may add some EL lighting in the resulting slot on either side of the track as well, so that you can see to hook up at night. Definitely going to put EL inside the toe rails. Maybe Fin can help with this. He got a lot more time in on the hot boats of the sixties and seventies than I did. They had some truly complex sails. Fin? Fred, cutting the bloopers into riding sails!? Hehehe. That sail was always a pain in the $#* to fly. Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Haas Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stay sail (Randy/Bruce) Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed to do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how should it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, I have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few feet aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by way of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already cutting the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: This is a tall spinnaker staysail. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

My Cal-34 has a staysail track though I have never used it. It has some large washers for backup but there is no other strengthening scheme that I can see. I have noted no damage or stress that others may have incurred in the past. I recently saw a picture of a Cal-40 (I think) v-berth that had something in the overhead that caused me to think it might be strengthening for a staysail track on the foredeck. Of course, I could be totally wrong, too. Walter MacArthur '70 Cal-34 #301 Husar Charlie wrote: Rog, do you use any special structural work under the deck to support the srtesses on the foredeck track? Cheers Charlie

Most of the Cal 40s I've seen have ribs across the foredeck underneath. My boat did have a track but I removed it. If I use a baby stay, I had the tang put in the mast, I would put a tie rod to the hull that could be removed when not in use. I don't think that's necessary for a tall boy staysail. Maybe for a genoa staysail. I have a tie rod aft of the mast to take the load from the turning blocks for the halyards. I have only one winch on the mast. The way I mounted it was to place a four bolt pad eye on the deck with another pad eye on the under side. They are bolted together through the deck. I don't remove the tie rod at the mast but it has a turnbuckle and shackles. The same could be used up in the bow for a stay tie rod. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 96 On Nov 2, 2006, at 6:34 PM, walter wrote: > My Cal-34 has a staysail track though I have never used it. > It has some large washers for backup but there is no other > strengthening scheme that I can see. I have noted no damage or > stress that others may have incurred in the past. > > I recently saw a picture of a Cal-40 (I think) v-berth that had > something in the overhead that caused me to think it might be > strengthening for a staysail track on the foredeck. > > Of course, I could be totally wrong, too. > > Walter MacArthur > '70 Cal-34 #301 > > Husar Charlie wrote: >> >> Rog, do you use any special structural work under the deck to >> support the srtesses on the foredeck track? >> >> Cheers >> Charlie >> >> > > >

for the FUN of it? You are an ....uh.......Unususal dude, Rog! Reggie >From: "Rog Jones" <ro… [at] nvsailing.org> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Staysail Track (Rog) >Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 15:20:40 -0800 > >Hi, Chas - > > > >The Cal 29 had none and it seemed to be fine. The loads don't appear to be >very significant. Still, since I have the whole interior gutted at this >point, to prevent any chance of flex or pull-through, I am going to strip >out the old plywood core (similar to the core you have on the 40) down the >center for a span of about 12 inches and replace it with solid laminate, >probably with at least one ply of carbon-fiber and KevlarR hybrid. The hull >to deck bond is also being reinforced, because I am removing the rubrail >and >bonding hull to deck like David Owen did on Mariposa. > > > >This is, as usual, more for esthetics and the fun of it than anything else, >and is undoubtedly overkill. > > > >Which boat are you thinking about -- a 25 or the 40? > > > >\Rog > > > > _____ > >From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf >Of Husar Charlie >Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:16 PM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Staysail Track (Rog) > > > >Rog, do you use any special structural work under the deck to support the >srtesses on the foredeck track? > > > >Cheers > >Charlie > > > > > > _____ > >From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf >Of Rog Jones >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:57 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Tallboy (Was Stay sail) (Fred H and Fin) > >On the 29 the tallboy was set inside the chute purportedly to feed air >upward and into it from the gap between the deck and the foot of the chute. >I'm not certain how much good it did, though it was a popular sail for a >long time. I don't see people running staysails inside of chutes anymore, >though when out racing on the Bay I'm usually too busy to notice much more >than our competition and the bearings to the next ark. Swiss Navy had (and >will again have a center track down the foredeck for setting the cars and >snatch blocks for the downhaul and for the staysails. I've come to like >that >arrangement. The only thing I might do differently is to build up a little >slope in the deck on each side of the track so you don't trip over it all >the time. I used to really bang myself up on that track. I may add some EL >lighting in the resulting slot on either side of the track as well, so that >you can see to hook up at night. Definitely going to put EL inside the toe >rails. > > > >Maybe Fin can help with this. He got a lot more time in on the hot boats of >the sixties and seventies than I did. They had some truly complex sails. > > > >Fin? > > > >Fred, cutting the bloopers into riding sails!? Hehehe. That sail was always >a pain in the $#* to fly. > > > >Cal 29+ #1 > >Swiss Navy > > > >Cal 2-30 #77 > >St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > _____ > >From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf >Of Fred Haas >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stay sail (Randy/Bruce) > > > >Ok, \Rog, it's time to ask... >Nemesis came to me with 14 sails, most of which I have never used. Among >them were 3 spinakers and a "Tall Boy". as well. as a standard staysail, >which has a built -in stay.. I have no idea what the Tall Boy is supoosed >to >do. Is this the same as a tall spinaker staysail? If so, what and how >should >it be flown? In addition to the two jib hooks at the base of my headstay, I >have a padeye set about 6 inches behind the headstay and another a few feet >aft. The latter is deinitely set up for the downhaul for whisker and >spinnaker poles, as well as for the staysail which hauls to the mast by way >of the topping lift. I have flown the staysail a time or two with no >particular success. What should I do with the Tall Boy. I am already >cutting >the 3 bloopers into riding sails, so that dosn't seem to be a good option. >Fred Haas >3-30 Nemesis >Tacoma >On Nov 1, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Rog Jones wrote: > >This is a tall spinnaker staysail. > >\Rog > >Cal 29+ #1 >Swiss Navy > >Cal 2-30 #77 >St. Lori's Comet > > > > > > Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with Live Search! http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmtagline

r good wrote: > > > for the FUN of it? > > You are an ....uh.......Unususal dude, Rog! > I'll defend Rog on this one. Working on the boat is an important part of the whole experience for some of us. I've got one of those stupid jobs where all the work is intangible, and the boat is a place where I can see my work product. It's fun. Beats watching TV, but then, so does having teeth pulled. Chris Campbell

Hi Bruce, I am finally home for more than a weekend. I will be on travel again after T-day. I am heading to the post office Friday the 17th, I will be sending the sail. I am Randy Alcorn, 6329 Swallow St. Ventura Ca, 63003 Sorry for the delay "Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq." <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> wrote: Randy, I sorry to hear about your father. My father died in 2002, before I ever bought a boat. He would have enjoyed her. Those on the list who sail with their fathers/sons are truly fortunate. I'd be happy to swap, but it sounds like only Roger knows what we have. His stay sail was the cleanest of the sails received. I don't recall any marks on it, apart from anything that may have dirtied it a bit as it lay out in my back yard. I folded it back up in the front yard and recall wiping off dust as I folded, but that was from laying on the ground for a few minutes out front while I begged Debbie to help me. I was preparing for the installation of a sprinkler system. There wasn't a lot of grass left. Had to rope off the whole area last night for Halloween with yellow caution tape to keep from getting sued. Lit up like Stalag 17 with halogen bulbs. My address is already all over the web, so I don't mind telling you here: 33 West Willetta Stree, Phoenix, Arizona 85003. If you'd like, I could send you the stay sail to see how she fits on your boat before swapping. You tell me. You can send me your address offline to: bruce @ stirlinglaw.com (remove spaces). Or you can call me on my cell phone (602) 460.5631, which is also all over the web. Bruce Stirling Gangfurd Cal 28 - Hull 82 http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 --> > > --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

Randy, I'll try to add a trip to the post office, too. Glad you made it back. I am running all over the state today, and debating whether to make a San Diego run tonight. A post office trip would be a good change of pace. Bruce --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@...> wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > I am finally home for more than a weekend. I will be on travel again after T-day. > > I am heading to the post office Friday the 17th, I will be sending the sail. > I am Randy Alcorn, 6329 Swallow St. Ventura Ca, 63003 > > Sorry for the delay > "Robert Bruce Stirling, II, Esq." <bruce@...> wrote: > Randy, > > I sorry to hear about your father. My father died in 2002, before I > ever bought a boat. He would have enjoyed her. Those on the list who > sail with their fathers/sons are truly fortunate. > > I'd be happy to swap, but it sounds like only Roger knows what we > have. His stay sail was the cleanest of the sails received. I don't > recall any marks on it, apart from anything that may have dirtied it a > bit as it lay out in my back yard. I folded it back up in the front > yard and recall wiping off dust as I folded, but that was from laying > on the ground for a few minutes out front while I begged Debbie to > help me. I was preparing for the installation of a sprinkler system. > There wasn't a lot of grass left. Had to rope off the whole area > last night for Halloween with yellow caution tape to keep from getting > sued. Lit up like Stalag 17 with halogen bulbs. > > My address is already all over the web, so I don't mind telling you > here: 33 West Willetta Stree, Phoenix, Arizona 85003. If you'd like, > I could send you the stay sail to see how she fits on your boat before > swapping. You tell me. You can send me your address offline to: > bruce @ stirlinglaw.com (remove spaces). Or you can call me on my > cell phone (602) 460.5631, which is also all over the web. > > Bruce Stirling > Gangfurd > Cal 28 - Hull 82 > http://www.stirlinglaw.com/cal28 > > --> > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Sponsored Link > > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms >