Lapworth predicted these things - Yacht Capsizes when Keel Comes Loose in Race

Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo around-the-world race. Check it out: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/index.html

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > around-the-world race. > > Check it out: > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/index.html Those swing keel boats are simply not safe for offshore work. The Sydney-Hobart Race a couple of years ago should have proven that. The 1979 showed that extreme IOR boats were not safe and this shows that the swing keel isn't either. They are daysailers. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 >

The Volvo 70 (round the world race) boats had canting keels. If I recall correctly, ABN AMRO One had a canting keel and two retractable dagger boards as well. I'll ask Stan Honey what he thought of the safety and stability of these designs. Will report back. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:17 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Lapworth predicted these things - Yacht Capsizes when Keel Comes Loose in Race --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > around-the-world race. > > Check it out: > http://sportsillust <http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/index.ht ml> rated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/index.html Those swing keel boats are simply not safe for offshore work. The Sydney-Hobart Race a couple of years ago should have proven that. The 1979 showed that extreme IOR boats were not safe and this shows that the swing keel isn't either. They are daysailers. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 >

Hi, All. Can I assume that canting keels and swing keels are two different things (swing is fore-aft, and canting is side to side)? I sure don't like the size of the hole in the bottom of the boat that a canting keel requires. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rog Jones Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 10:36 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Lapworth predicted these things - Yacht Capsizes when Keel Comes Loose in Race The Volvo 70 (round the world race) boats had canting keels. If I recall correctly, ABN AMRO One had a canting keel and two retractable dagger boards as well. I'll ask Stan Honey what he thought of the safety and stability of these designs. Will report back. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:17 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Lapworth predicted these things - Yacht Capsizes when Keel Comes Loose in Race --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > around-the-world race. > > Check it out: > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/index .html <http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/11/23/yacht.capsizes.ap/inde x.html> Those swing keel boats are simply not safe for offshore work. The Sydney-Hobart Race a couple of years ago should have proven that. The 1979 showed that extreme IOR boats were not safe and this shows that the swing keel isn't either. They are daysailers. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 >

Bruce Stirling wrote: > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > around-the-world race. > Bob Perry was reviewing a new boat design in the Sept. _Sailing_ magazine. It was about 40' LOD (more with its bowsprit). He wondered aloud whether this would be viewed as a cruising classic in 40 years, as the once-controversial Cal 40 is. The new boat had one of those 10' draft keels, a big bulb on a skinny but long fin. I e-mailed him that a 10' draft does not suggest classic status in the Great lakes, where your cruising options would be limited, and that it would be interesting to see what happened to that keel the first time you hit an unmarked rock in the north channel. He agreed that classic status is unlikely. It's easy to tut-tut over high tech gone awry. It's more important to chose the right technology for the problem at hand. Canting keels, ultra light scantlings, and all that are fine for a race setting where winning is the overriding goal. They are less fine for cruising or survival settings where remaining alive and happy are higher values. Chris Campbell

hey, Chris! they just need a split canting keel so half can be sent to port and the other to starboard when in shallow waters. sort-of like lifting ones skirts while walking though a puddle.....? fiver <giggles> ********************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: > > Bruce Stirling wrote: > > > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > > around-the-world race. > > > > > > > Bob Perry was reviewing a new boat design in the Sept. _Sailing_ > magazine. It was about 40' LOD (more with its bowsprit). He wondered > aloud whether this would be viewed as a cruising classic in 40 years, as > the once-controversial Cal 40 is. The new boat had one of those 10' > draft keels, a big bulb on a skinny but long fin. I e-mailed him that a > 10' draft does not suggest classic status in the Great lakes, where your > cruising options would be limited, and that it would be interesting to > see what happened to that keel the first time you hit an unmarked rock > in the north channel. He agreed that classic status is unlikely. > > It's easy to tut-tut over high tech gone awry. It's more important to > chose the right technology for the problem at hand. Canting keels, > ultra light scantlings, and all that are fine for a race setting where > winning is the overriding goal. They are less fine for cruising or > survival settings where remaining alive and happy are higher values. > > Chris Campbell >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: > > Bruce Stirling wrote: > > > > Keel comes loose on high seas during the Velux 5 Oceans solo > > around-the-world race. > > > > > > > Bob Perry was reviewing a new boat design in the Sept. _Sailing_ > magazine. It was about 40' LOD (more with its bowsprit). He wondered > aloud whether this would be viewed as a cruising classic in 40 years, as > the once-controversial Cal 40 is. The new boat had one of those 10' > draft keels, a big bulb on a skinny but long fin. I e-mailed him that a > 10' draft does not suggest classic status in the Great lakes, where your > cruising options would be limited, and that it would be interesting to > see what happened to that keel the first time you hit an unmarked rock > in the north channel. He agreed that classic status is unlikely. > > It's easy to tut-tut over high tech gone awry. It's more important to > chose the right technology for the problem at hand. Canting keels, > ultra light scantlings, and all that are fine for a race setting where > winning is the overriding goal. They are less fine for cruising or > survival settings where remaining alive and happy are higher values. This was my point about day sailing. Mike Jr sails in high competition regattas, many of which were once composed of distance races, like the SORC. Those regattas are all day races now. The remaining offshore races are Bermuda, Transpac, Sydney-Hobart, Fastnet and the Round-the-World events. Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart have had serious incidents with loss of life. The Round-the- World events are getting more frequent and they are really risking lives in extreme conditions. There is one solo sailor who has required rescue twice at huge cost. New Zealand has now begun onerous inspection rules for all cruisers after several expensive rescue missions. This is not good for the sport. That's all. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Chris Campbell >

mtkennedy1 wrote: > > > > Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart have had serious incidents with loss of > life. The Round-the- > World events are getting more frequent and they are really risking > lives in extreme > conditions. There is one solo sailor who has required rescue twice at > huge cost. New > Zealand has now begun onerous inspection rules for all cruisers after > several expensive > rescue missions. > > This is not good for the sport. That's all. > When Slocum and Chichester set off, they did so with the understanding that their safety and well-being were largely a matter of careful preparation, choosing and outfitting a proper vessel, skillful boat handling, and good luck. They were self-sufficient. Now in some quarters it's assumed that someone will be there to rescue you if needed. This tends to diminish the elements of self-sufficiency and self-reliance. It's sort of like setting off on a circumnavigation on a sailboard. It probably could be done, but would require massive amounts of external support and even more massive contributions of good luck. In the US, the Coast Guard got tired of being the errand boys for unprepared boaters, those who run out of gas, drain their batteries, or have minor mechanical problems. In the old days, they would come and get you. Now they will call the towing service for you ($$$$$$) unless there's a threat to life. I don't really object to saving a few public dollars by transferring the cost of minor rescues to the guilty (unprepared) party. It's easy to understand why New Zealand has taken steps to minimize the need for costly rescues of people who chose to take excessive (can we still say "unseamanlike"?) risks. The rescues are costly in terms of finances but also in terms of risk to the lives of the rescuers. One reason I like sailing is that it makes me so dependent upon my own resources to survive safely. So far, so good, thanks in part to huge doses of good luck. Chris Campbell

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris Campbell <clcampbell@...> wrote: > > mtkennedy1 wrote: > > > > > > > > Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart have had serious incidents with loss of > > life. The Round-the- > > World events are getting more frequent and they are really risking > > lives in extreme > > conditions. There is one solo sailor who has required rescue twice at > > huge cost. New > > Zealand has now begun onerous inspection rules for all cruisers after > > several expensive > > rescue missions. > > > > This is not good for the sport. That's all. > > > > > When Slocum and Chichester set off, they did so with the understanding > that their safety and well-being were largely a matter of careful > preparation, choosing and outfitting a proper vessel, skillful boat > handling, and good luck. The Bermuda Race banned radio communication until quite recently. They finally allowed it after being informed by lawyers that they were running serious legal risks. The same applied to the navigation hazards at the finish line. The fleet had gotten large and there were concerns about poorly prepared boats. One boat was rejected as too small and sailed down anyway but didn't make it. It went down someowhere on the way. I can recommend Rousemanier's book, "A Berth to Bermuda" by the way. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96