Re: [Cal_Boats] Internet matching (was MOB discussion )

Well guys - get ready for the 2007 recession. May be a good time for boat buying for those who saved. WM is just another company getting ready for this 24 month period of downturn in the economy - a shame but most of us have been there From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:48:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Internet matching (was MOB discussion ) John Dawson wrote: Unfortunately I have to report that WM (or the retailers in charge of it now) is absolutely putting the screws to EVERYTHING they can find in order to make Wall Street happy. The return policy is changing, the associate discounts have been reduced, time off will be altered, Internet matching (even for their own site) will soon be a thing of the past, inventory is being 'simplified' to make your shopping choices easier, and the experiment with lower prices is over. Sorry. Old-time listoids will be rolling their eyes when Chris begins his biennial West Marine rant but here goes. This is the difference between your old local chandlery and West Marine. WM must answer to Wall Street, which means attaining what the bean-counters regard as a proper return on investment and all that. Your local boat-stuff peddler only has to answer to his own need for income, his creditors, and maybe some partners. If he's making a comfortable living, he's happy. He can afford to do things that make his local customers happy and that bring them back to the store. He can even decide who his customers are! He can target people who own boats and make a business of meeting their needs--a local niche. Wall Street doesn't ask if WM is making the boat folks happy. If they can make gobs of money selling boat-themed casual clothing to people who hang out on the docks or on the beach, that's good enough for Wall Street. Wall Street doesn't care if you find your favorite varnish, or that cool Harken block, or the bottom paint you need on the shelves or in the catalog. The free-market theory is that you can choose to go to the local guy if WM doesn't meet your needs. Problem is, WM is like that other big player with the same initials, Wal-Mart. Once they've run all the local competitors out of business, you're stuck with what they choose to offer. Your choices have gone out of business. West Marine has done that in the communities where I live and sail. I still maintain that organizations like West Marine owe something to their customers. One thing they owe is certain levels of service, and one component of service is offering stuff that the customers need, even if it's not a high-volume item. Efficiency is not the only criterion for performance. West Marine's inventory has been shrinking for years, offering less and less choice, fewer and fewer options. Those cool little doo-dads that we sailors need from time to time have disappeared from the shelves. A number of years ago in an unguarded moment a clerk ("associate" ) explained that most people don't know what they're doing, and all those choices just confused them (so West diminished the choices to satisfy the dim-witted). Frankly, I like choices when choosing allows me to meet my boat's specific needs. And I dislike being taken for dim-witted. Even if I am. I have been searching West's shelves in two locations for the nice waxed whipping twine they used to carry. It was exactly the right form and weight for my uses. After multiple trips, and "associate" caught me before I trotted out the door in disgust. I explained what they were lacking--still- -and he explained that some big corporate reorganization of the sailing stock was going on, and they were not refilling inventory until that was done. Now I know the whole story. So West Marine has been Milton-Friedmanized , and we are all the losers for it. Makes me grumpy as hell, in case you didn't notice. Harrumph. Chris Campbell

carlos Solanilla wrote: > Well guys - get ready for the 2007 recession. May be a good time for > boat buying for those who saved. WM is just another company getting > ready for this 24 month period of downturn in the economy - It's a great theory but doesn't explain why WM has been contracting their inventory for the last ten years. I think they've just figured out that they can make more money by selling inflatable pull-toys and Hawaiian shirts to powerboaters. Chris Campbell

Since nobody else has plugged them, I'll put in a good word for Ace hardware. Depending on where you are, some ace's have really excellent SS fastener selection. We use Whale Point Ace in Richmond, which is about 50% chandlery, 50% regular hardware store. And of course a lot of the landlubber stuff is still needed for boat projects. I guess Ace is set up as a relaxed franchise, where the local store owner can configure things his own way. I've seen some ace's that are automobile-oriented, some that are gardening-oriented, some sorta general-purpose, and at least this one in Richmond that is nautical. These guys also have all the big-time nautical rigger's and supplyer's catalogs and will order anything for you, available in 3 days and no shipping charge. On another note: to some extent I think you can also blame the rise of the internet for the trend for brick-and-morter places like WM to go the way they have, which is to cater to the most common denominator and highest margin. A lot of folks now do their buying online (that might qualify for the most obvious statement I've made this year). At the same time, all companies have had their employment costs increase drastically in the last 5 years due to rising insurance costs, etc, so its hard to keep good staff, especially in retail--they tend to hire young folks who will work for the least salary. Neither of these trends are welcome but they're both a reality and not just affecting WM. What I do is, I try to go to the places like ace for little stuff like fasteners and expendables, and I buy more expensive or exotic stuff online. A real good site to know is mcmastercarr.com, if you don't already use them. Times change. Sucks, sometimes. bw ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Internet matching (was MOB discussion ) carlos Solanilla wrote: Well guys - get ready for the 2007 recession. May be a good time for boat buying for those who saved. WM is just another company getting ready for this 24 month period of downturn in the economy - It's a great theory but doesn't explain why WM has been contracting their inventory for the last ten years. I think they've just figured out that they can make more money by selling inflatable pull-toys and Hawaiian shirts to powerboaters. Chris Campbell

i concur with bob.. we have "do it centers" here in so cal. they just opened one up in oxnard right next door to a boaters world store.. the do it has the biggest selection of stainless steel fasteners around.. they obviously realize that the boating industry that exists in this area has a much higher need than there other stores inland. and they seem to have understood the sales will be much higher, and stock a good supply of hardware.. i dont even check the WM anymore... eric jackson CAL 29 BAREFOOT On Nov 29, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Bob Walden wrote: > > Since nobody else has plugged them, I'll put in a good word for Ace > hardware. Depending on where you are, some ace's have really > excellent SS fastener selection. We use Whale Point Ace in > Richmond, which is about 50% chandlery, 50% regular hardware store. > And of course a lot of the landlubber stuff is still needed for > boat projects. I guess Ace is set up as a relaxed franchise, where > the local store owner can configure things his own way. I've seen > some ace's that are automobile-oriented, some that are gardening- > oriented, some sorta general-purpose, and at least this one in > Richmond that is nautical. These guys also have all the big-time > nautical rigger's and supplyer's catalogs and will order anything > for you, available in 3 days and no shipping charge. > > On another note: to some extent I think you can also blame the rise > of the internet for the trend for brick-and-morter places like WM > to go the way they have, which is to cater to the most common > denominator and highest margin. A lot of folks now do their buying > online (that might qualify for the most obvious statement I've made > this year). At the same time, all companies have had their > employment costs increase drastically in the last 5 years due to > rising insurance costs, etc, so its hard to keep good staff, > especially in retail--they tend to hire young folks who will work > for the least salary. > > Neither of these trends are welcome but they're both a reality and > not just affecting WM. > > What I do is, I try to go to the places like ace for little stuff > like fasteners and expendables, and I buy more expensive or exotic > stuff online. A real good site to know is mcmastercarr.com, if you > don't already use them. > > Times change. Sucks, sometimes. > > bw > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Campbell > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:52 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Internet matching (was MOB discussion ) > > carlos Solanilla wrote: >> Well guys - get ready for the 2007 recession. May be a good time >> for boat buying for those who saved. WM is just another company >> getting ready for this 24 month period of downturn in the economy - > > > > > It's a great theory but doesn't explain why WM has been contracting > their inventory for the last ten years. I think they've just > figured out that they can make more money by selling inflatable > pull-toys and Hawaiian shirts to powerboaters. > > Chris Campbell > >

Bob Walden wrote: > > Since nobody else has plugged them, I'll put in a good word for Ace > hardware. Depending on where you are, some ace's have really excellent > SS fastener selection. We use Whale Point Ace in Richmond, which is > about 50% chandlery, 50% regular hardware store. Good point. I do this too. My Ace Hardware is four blocks from my house. Mine is not quite so boat-y as yours, but they do have SS fasteners, they're nearby, and they're locally owned. Chris Campbell

Hello all, Yes, My local ACE Hardeware is chock full of stainless steel fastners. This store is a solid half hour from the nearest habor. I personally have, what some have called, a fettish with allen style fastners. Guilty as charged ! Allen screws are the best looking fastners there is. Any how, ACE is The place. If they don't have it on the shelf they will order it for you. The local hardware store is just that. LOCAL. Keep your money local. When possible buy local. Keep the money in your community. OK, I'm off my soap box. Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: Bob Walden wrote: Since nobody else has plugged them, I'll put in a good word for Ace hardware. Depending on where you are, some ace's have really excellent SS fastener selection. We use Whale Point Ace in Richmond, which is about 50% chandlery, 50% regular hardware store. Good point. I do this too. My Ace Hardware is four blocks from my house. Mine is not quite so boat-y as yours, but they do have SS fasteners, they're nearby, and they're locally owned. Chris Campbell See Ya On The Trail, Dave