The Pox

Listees: I went out to the Cal 20 last night to get my license off the trailer, and to inspect the pimples again. First of all, these are not the classic blisters that I've seen in articles and around boatyards. Those are usually the size of a quarter or larger, and under the waterline. I have not seen any of those on this hull. My pimples are appearing primarily at or above the boot-top stripe, and they are mostly about 1/8" diameter (but numerous). The Cal 20 has a boot-top stripe molded in, of gelcoat. The pimples are mostly in or above it, extending up maybe 3 or 4 inches vertically. There is one place where I think I see some under the antifouling paint (under the waterline), but it's just a small area. Somebody raised the issue of osmosis _from inside_. That's a possibility, although the interior of the boat is mostly dry. I occasionally get a bit of condensation below the waterline when moist air hits the interior surface that is cooled by immersion, but that would not explain pimples forming above the waterline. Can you get osmotic blistering from the inside just by means of humid air? As noted previously, it seems odd that this boat survived 30 years in fresh water with no apparent effect, and then started getting pimples. It's way past adolescence. The practical answer is probably "hell, Campbell, don't worry about it, you'll be dead and gone before the boat falls apart." But I don't like the use-it-up-and-throw-it-away culture, and it would be nice to pass on a sound hull to some new sailor when I can't sail any more (30 years from now). So I do worry about it, and remain curious about what's going on. Does anybody have ideas? Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, "Martha C"

Bruce Stirling wrote: > > Chris, > > In my web cruising I stumbled across an article written by someone who > experienced the same problem. The article had pictures of the tiny > pimples. They covered the whole hull. Bruce: This brings to mind to old saying "ignorance is bliss." I'm trying hard to ignore the whole subject right now, since the pox are occurring where they shouldn't be and can't be if it's osmosis. If they shouldn't be there and can't be there, they aren't, and that's that. Chris

Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . The bottom looks as good as it did in the spring now that the boat is hauled and washed. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. I had several people look at the boat before I did the work and no one had seen this kind of "blister". I had considered having the boat peeled or sandblasted last year but opted for the cheap do-it -yourself solution. All told it probably cost $400 in materials and about 30hrs of my labor.

Frank and Wendy wrote: > > Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, > I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. > I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me > just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is _above_ the waterline. > Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were > actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow > and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up > into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. > These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other > boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no > water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where > there has never been water contact. This is all good news. > Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it > all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted > it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then > VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that _Practical Sailo_r's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. > > i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat > chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of > osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220

I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to it. Any special treatment required? The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to promote proper archiving. :~] Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. This is all good news. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220

The trick with Interprotect 2000 is to apply the first coat of bottom paint while the interprotect is still alittle tacky. This creates a better bond of bottom paint to interprotect. You can also sand the interprotect and use a solvent wash to thoroughly clean and prep the surface. Don't sand it too smooth, otherwise the paint won't adhere. Cheers, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Husar Charlie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Barrier Coats - was POX I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to it. Any special treatment required? The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to promote proper archiving. :~] Cheers Charlie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. This is all good news. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220

The application requirements for bottom paint over the interprotect are very precise - depending on when the job was done (ie what vintage of interprotect was used) there isn't a very long time window between application of the barrier coat and application of the first coat of bottom paint. You have to read the directions VERY carefully. Bob Andrew From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar Charlie Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Barrier Coats - was POX I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to it. Any special treatment required? The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to promote proper archiving. :~] Cheers Charlie _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. This is all good news. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220

Charlie, I can agree with that. I have done quite a bit of fairing and epoxy work on my boats. Fairing keels, built 3 epoxy/carbon rudders, etc. The problem is if you want a really good racing bottom you have to let interprotect dry completely so you can wet sand it. In this case the VC-17 adheres poorly. Looks good at irst but will be gone after a few in water cleanings. Another technique is to get the interprotect on as smooth as possible and then put the bottom paint on before the interprotect is fully cured---this is what interlux recommends (what I did). I have found that Petit SR21 sticks to smooth interprotect better than VC17(interlux). Since I am pathologically fixated on a smooth bottom (on the boat) I plan to re-sand the bottom in the winter/spring while I improve the keel to a NACA profile. I plan to try one of the harder anti-fouls like VC offshore and then go over that with VC-17 as the final ablative coating for my Lake Erie sailing. The bad part is I won't be able to blame the boat when I loose. I can still blame the PHRF rating I guess. At least the POX are gone. Charlie, I had some POX above the waterline too, even some inside the boat on gellcoated surfaces (in hanging locker). On the top-sides it would'nt that bad of a job to sand her down if you don't mind painting the boat after. Nothin like a fresh paint job! I did the entire boat last year from rub-rail to keel. Removed all the nics and gouges from the previous owner and now she looks like new. Frank Cal31 Footloose -----Original Message----- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Husar Charlie Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Barrier Coats - was POX I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to it. Any special treatment required? The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to promote proper archiving. :~] Cheers Charlie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. This is all good news. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220

Charlie: Was it you who posted something recently about painting a boot stripe? If so, would you please run through the drill again, as I'm looking to do mine in the spring. Thanks. Jon Myers Cal 3-29 Bay Breeze ballast From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Husar Charlie Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Barrier Coats - was POX I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to it. Any special treatment required? The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to promote proper archiving. :~] Cheers Charlie _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a dimpled/stippled bottom paint. This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been water contact. This is all good news. Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220 ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. **************************************************

I did mine recently with Brightside, the paint Interlux recommends for that purpose. It easily passes the 6 & 6 test, ie 6 feet away at 6 knots. It looks pretty good up close too. Get the packet of Interlux materials sent to you. I found it really helpful. The tiny squares of paint samples look brighter in bigger swatches and in natural light however. Good luck, Terry Spencer Cal 2-29 Capriccio From: <jo… [at] peco-energy.com> Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:07:24 -0500 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Boot Stripe...was Barrier Coats - was POX Charlie: Was it you who posted something recently about painting a boot stripe? If so, would you please run through the drill again, as I'm looking to do mine in the spring. Thanks. Jon Myers Cal 3-29 Bay Breeze ballast > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf > Of Husar Charlie > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Barrier Coats - was POX > > > > > > I've known people who have done barrier coats stuff (e.g., Interlux) with > post sanding and smoothing, and then said that bottom paint did not stick to > it. Any special treatment required? > > > > The web nazis should note my proper implementation of the change in title to > promote proper archiving. > > > :~] Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:27 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Frank and Wendy wrote: > > > > > Hello fellow sufferers of the POX, > > I had the same problem on my 31, but it is fixed. > > I bought the boat last year and noticed what I thought at first to me just a > dimpled/stippled bottom paint. > > This sounds like what I have on the Cal 20, except mine is above the waterline. > > > > > Closer examination when the boat was hauled showed that the pox were actually > in the gelcoat. This was a localized problem- some on the bow and some close > to the stern, mostly below the waterline but also up into the bootstripe. That's where mine start. > > > > > These where much smaller than any 'blisters' I had seen on other boats. I > opened some up but there was just more jelcoat inside-no water/glycol or > voids. I also have some on the interior gelcoat where there has never been > water contact. This is all good news. > > > > > Anyhow, since the bottom paint was of an unknown variety I sanded it all off > going just deep enough to remove the POX also. I then painted it with 5 coats > of interlux Interprotect epoxy barrier coat, then VC-17 bottom paint . This part sounds like work. I was hoping for an easy fix...like waving a magic wand. But it's worthy of note that Practical Sailor's latest issue has a review of some more bottom-paint removers that worked very well. > > > > > > > > i think that these small POX are just some flaw in the gellcoat chemistry > used at the time of manufacture, and not truly a form of osmotic blistering. Good! Thanks for the report. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220 ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** >

Chris, In my web cruising I stumbled across an article written by someone who experienced the same problem. The article had pictures of the tiny pimples. They covered the whole hull. I can't remember where I read it, and don't have time right now to search again, but I believe it was a Beneteau owner's cruising site. If I recall, they had the repairs done in New Zealand. Maybe, with the right Google search terms, you can locate the article. If I recall, there was some shortcut taken in the manufacturing process that Beneteau made good one. I think it was Beneteau . . . . I think they had to remove the entire gel coat and redo. Even then, it reappeared by their next port-of-call, but not as bad as original. Think they had to do it twice to correct problem. Happy googling! Bruce Stirling From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:41 AM To: cal; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] The Pox Listees: I went out to the Cal 20 last night to get my license off the trailer, and to inspect the pimples again. First of all, these are not the classic blisters that I've seen in articles and around boatyards. Those are usually the size of a quarter or larger, and under the waterline. I have not seen any of those on this hull. My pimples are appearing primarily at or above the boot-top stripe, and they are mostly about 1/8" diameter (but numerous). The Cal 20 has a boot-top stripe molded in, of gelcoat. The pimples are mostly in or above it, extending up maybe 3 or 4 inches vertically. There is one place where I think I see some under the antifouling paint (under the waterline), but it's just a small area. Somebody raised the issue of osmosis from inside. That's a possibility, although the interior of the boat is mostly dry. I occasionally get a bit of condensation below the waterline when moist air hits the interior surface that is cooled by immersion, but that would not explain pimples forming above the waterline. Can you get osmotic blistering from the inside just by means of humid air? As noted previously, it seems odd that this boat survived 30 years in fresh water with no apparent effect, and then started getting pimples. It's way past adolescence. The practical answer is probably "hell, Campbell, don't worry about it, you'll be dead and gone before the boat falls apart." But I don't like the use-it-up-and-throw-it-away culture, and it would be nice to pass on a sound hull to some new sailor when I can't sail any more (30 years from now). So I do worry about it, and remain curious about what's going on. Does anybody have ideas? Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, "Martha C"