CalList Coop (was SailNet Experience) [Rog]

Roger's gone hippie on us when we weren't looking: "Finally, has anyone heard of the Chinese buying groups that negotiate prices for larger quantities of items by teaming up together to negotiate lower prices for and making volume purchases of cars and household furnishings and appliances and the like? I wonder if this would work for stuff we all need and use like, say, inflatable PFDs and sails. I wonder if North or Air Force or UK would give volume discounts if we bought, say, eight or ten Cal 25 mains." That's a great idea Rog, although a familiar one. When we were first married, I'd go once a week to cut cheddar cheese and weigh out bags of organic lentils at our food coop. There's no doubt that collective buying can indeed lower the purchase price of products, but TANSTAAFL still prevails. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch) You need to factor in the time it takes to aggregate the orders from people who are actually ready to order the same thing at the same time, collect all the money, cut the payment check, do all the negotiating (including getting all the participants to agree), arrange for the parceling out and shipping of the pieces. There's a reason that the various retailers take a cut over the wholesale price; there's a lot of work and time involved. I'm not trying to douse the idea, but simply provide enough cold water to get us to look at the problem from a reasonable position. Most of the coops I've belonged to over the years have relied heavily on volunteers who do not count their time as being worth much. When it works, a consortium approach like this can be very worthwhile. When it goes south, it can go south in a big hurry. We've had success with some trial balloon items, such as the Cal List burgees, and I seem to recall that there was a group order of rudders from Foss Foam a few years back. I'm in favor of trying something more ambitious, if there's something that enough of us are planning to buy anyway. (Maybe a bulk purchase of Sunbrella, for example.) Alfred Poor 1969 Cal 29 #132, "Pentaquod"

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Alfred Poor" <apoor@...> wrote: > > You need to factor in > the time it takes to aggregate the orders from people who are actually ready > to order the same thing at the same time, collect all the money, cut the > payment check, do all the negotiating (including getting all the > participants to agree), arrange for the parceling out and shipping of the > pieces. There's a reason that the various retailers take a cut over the > wholesale price; there's a lot of work and time involved. Al: You're forgetting that it was Rog who organized our Cal Plans distribution with bill Lapworth, and had to do all that stuff--for which I, at least, remain extremely grateful. Even if he hadn't learned those lessons before, he did in that project. So once again, Rog, thank you, thank you. I have been corresponding with an artist who's planning to make a print of the Cal 20, and needs plans and photos to prepare. I always try to mention Rog's hard work for us, although often indirectly so he's not harrassed by people seeking more copies. Chris Campbell

Charlie Husar has done something similar with rubrails and windows for the Cal 25. ----- Original Message ----- From: sail_c2 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: CalList Coop (was SailNet Experience) [Rog] --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Alfred Poor" <apoor@...> wrote: > > You need to factor in > the time it takes to aggregate the orders from people who are actually ready > to order the same thing at the same time, collect all the money, cut the > payment check, do all the negotiating (including getting all the > participants to agree), arrange for the parceling out and shipping of the > pieces. There's a reason that the various retailers take a cut over the > wholesale price; there's a lot of work and time involved. Al: You're forgetting that it was Rog who organized our Cal Plans distribution with bill Lapworth, and had to do all that stuff--for which I, at least, remain extremely grateful. Even if he hadn't learned those lessons before, he did in that project. So once again, Rog, thank you, thank you. I have been corresponding with an artist who's planning to make a print of the Cal 20, and needs plans and photos to prepare. I always try to mention Rog's hard work for us, although often indirectly so he's not harrassed by people seeking more copies. Chris Campbell

Charlie H here in Annapolis has done his best to get group prices on such wonderful trinkets as windows and rubrails for the Cal 25. :-) Cheers, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: sail_c2 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: CalList Coop (was SailNet Experience) [Rog] --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Alfred Poor" <apoor@...> wrote: > > You need to factor in > the time it takes to aggregate the orders from people who are actually ready > to order the same thing at the same time, collect all the money, cut the > payment check, do all the negotiating (including getting all the > participants to agree), arrange for the parceling out and shipping of the > pieces. There's a reason that the various retailers take a cut over the > wholesale price; there's a lot of work and time involved. Al: You're forgetting that it was Rog who organized our Cal Plans distribution with bill Lapworth, and had to do all that stuff--for which I, at least, remain extremely grateful. Even if he hadn't learned those lessons before, he did in that project. So once again, Rog, thank you, thank you. I have been corresponding with an artist who's planning to make a print of the Cal 20, and needs plans and photos to prepare. I always try to mention Rog's hard work for us, although often indirectly so he's not harrassed by people seeking more copies. Chris Campbell

Yes, and for a while I was eating poached rub rail, boiled rub rail, sauteed rubrail, rub rail on a bun with sauerkraut (I recommend that one)... During snowstorms, I found that rubrail was also good with my bread and toilet paper sandwiches with milk. (For those in areas where it does not snow, you may find the last reference rather obtuse.) Cheers Anyway Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Sauvageot Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:36 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: CalList Coop (was SailNet Experience) [Rog] Charlie H here in Annapolis has done his best to get group prices on such wonderful trinkets as windows and rubrails for the Cal 25. :-) Cheers, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: sail_c2 <mailto:cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: CalList Coop (was SailNet Experience) [Rog] --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> , "Alfred Poor" <apoor@...> wrote: > > You need to factor in > the time it takes to aggregate the orders from people who are actually ready > to order the same thing at the same time, collect all the money, cut the > payment check, do all the negotiating (including getting all the > participants to agree), arrange for the parceling out and shipping of the > pieces. There's a reason that the various retailers take a cut over the > wholesale price; there's a lot of work and time involved. Al: You're forgetting that it was Rog who organized our Cal Plans distribution with bill Lapworth, and had to do all that stuff--for which I, at least, remain extremely grateful. Even if he hadn't learned those lessons before, he did in that project. So once again, Rog, thank you, thank you. I have been corresponding with an artist who's planning to make a print of the Cal 20, and needs plans and photos to prepare. I always try to mention Rog's hard work for us, although often indirectly so he's not harrassed by people seeking more copies. Chris Campbell

Hello all, Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. Thanks! Greg 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) 1986 P36-2 Four the Soul

I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external ballast? And how do you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in Ohio. thanks! Jeff Sail Away <Sv… [at] optonline.net> wrote: Hello all, Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. Thanks! Greg 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) 1986 P36-2 Four the Soul

Greg ... I have some recollection that Stan Honey uses an Alpha autopilot when he sails his Cal-40 single-handed. I think that he developed (for his personal use) some tricky software to make it work even better. While sailing alone, he set a record for the fastest passage on a Cal-40 sailing from California to Hawaii. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. Thanks! Greg 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) 1986 P36-2 Four the Soul

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external ballast? And how do you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in Ohio. thanks! Jeff I had a Cal 34 for about six years. I had trouble with the Atomic 4 engine and, while lots of people still have them and seem to love them, I would look hard at that. The boat has a longish keel by recent standards and has internal ballast. There is a nice deep bilge above the ballast. I liked the layout for cruising and we had six people aboard comfortably at Catalina Island for long weekends. The one I had was the original layout with a dinette to port and galley to starboard. There was a quarterberth on one side. For more than three, the dinnette was converted to a double bunk. Two people would be quite comfortable in the vee-berth. In summer, kids would often sleep in the cockpit although mosquitoes are not a problem here. I have some pictures of mine in cruising mode and could post them if it would help. MIke Kennedy Conquest cal 40 # 96 > > Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: Hello all, > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. > > Thanks! > > Greg > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > 1986 P36-2 > Four the Soul >

Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along...I guess I'm thinking about sailing performance, my preference has been external ballast. Have you had experience with boats with external ballast, and did you notice a differnce. thanks! mtkennedy1 <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell wrote: > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external ballast? And how do you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in Ohio. thanks! Jeff I had a Cal 34 for about six years. I had trouble with the Atomic 4 engine and, while lots of people still have them and seem to love them, I would look hard at that. The boat has a longish keel by recent standards and has internal ballast. There is a nice deep bilge above the ballast. I liked the layout for cruising and we had six people aboard comfortably at Catalina Island for long weekends. The one I had was the original layout with a dinette to port and galley to starboard. There was a quarterberth on one side. For more than three, the dinnette was converted to a double bunk. Two people would be quite comfortable in the vee-berth. In summer, kids would often sleep in the cockpit although mosquitoes are not a problem here. I have some pictures of mine in cruising mode and could post them if it would help. MIke Kennedy Conquest cal 40 # 96 > > Sail Away wrote: Hello all, > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. > > Thanks! > > Greg > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > 1986 P36-2 > Four the Soul > Yahoo! Groups Links

Jeff Russell wrote: > > Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along... > I've read so many good things about Moyer Marine and their support for and rebuilding of the Atomic 4--and also about the engine's reliability and performance when it's in good condition. And then there's the issue of diesel fuel odor in your boat. My limited experience with inboards has been that gas engines don't smell (unless there's a safety problem, and then the odor is useful) but diesels do. Gas engines do require attention to safety, but then again, so do propane cooking devices, and most people are willing to put up with those because of their advantages. Gas engines were used for many years with a pretty good record, especially for those owners who were attentive and methodical. For those of us who are frugal (cheap), the fear of gas engines makes a whole class of used boats cheaper and more available. Chris Campbell

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along...I guess I'm thinking about sailing performance, my preference has been external ballast. Have you had experience with boats with external ballast, and did you notice a differnce. thanks! The classic Cal boats have internal ballast. Some of the later, non-Lapworth, models may have bolt-on keels. My Cal 40 has internal ballast. I've had previous boats with external bolted keels and that is characteristic of newer boats. The principle benefit I can think of is the possibility of a grounding, especially a hard grounding, in which the lead is tougher and will tolerate impact better than a glass surface. Alfred has posted some other issues about his keel. In my case, the boat hit a rock in LA Harbor entrance and that bent the keel enough to be noticable when sailing. We replaced the keel, a waste of money that I wish I had back. If it had been the Cal 40 that hit the rock, the damage might have been worse and harder to fix but I don't know that. It was a pain in the a** to switch that keel. If you want a Cal boat designed by Lapworth, I think they are are all internal lead. I don't know about the Cal 33. Maybe that is an exception. Others here will know, especially Rog. As far as sailing performance is concerned, there are other design issues that affect that. Going to weather, the new hulls will beat the older designs. The thinner keel section is part of that but hull shape is at least as important. For example, my Choate 40 was modified for Transpac by the builder. The entry was flatter and the hull was wider. We could not point with the other Choate 40s, other things being equal. Downwind, we did not have the same tendency of the fine entry to dig into the back of waves and we surfed better. In a race around the marks, we lost ground on the beat and gained it downwind. The harder it blew, the more pronounced was that effect. And we all had the same shape keel. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

My 1973 cal 27 pt had a bolt-on keel, but the cal 39, 1977, has an encapsulated keel with no keelbolts in the bilge. Both are lapworths. I've been meaning to ask about this: anyone have issues with their glassed-in keelbolts? Any reason to do anything about them if no problems are seen? My hull/keel line is invisible, so sign of seperation, no sign of any hard grounding in the past, no leakage in the bilge, stays dry all the time. But I'm so used to being able to see the keelbolts, makes me wonder what they look like. bw From: "mtkennedy1" <mt… [at] cox.net> To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: >> >> Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along...I guess I'm >> thinking about sailing > performance, my preference has been external ballast. Have you had > experience with > boats with external ballast, and did you notice a differnce. thanks! > > The classic Cal boats have internal ballast. Some of the later, > non-Lapworth, models may > have bolt-on keels. My Cal 40 has internal ballast. I've had previous > boats with external > bolted keels and that is characteristic of newer boats. The principle > benefit I can think of is > the possibility of a grounding, especially a hard grounding, in which the > lead is tougher > and will tolerate impact better than a glass surface. Alfred has posted > some other issues > about his keel. In my case, the boat hit a rock in LA Harbor entrance and > that bent the keel > enough to be noticable when sailing. We replaced the keel, a waste of > money that I wish I > had back. If it had been the Cal 40 that hit the rock, the damage might > have been worse > and harder to fix but I don't know that. It was a pain in the a** to > switch that keel. > > If you want a Cal boat designed by Lapworth, I think they are are all > internal lead. I don't > know about the Cal 33. Maybe that is an exception. Others here will know, > especially Rog. > > As far as sailing performance is concerned, there are other design issues > that affect that. > Going to weather, the new hulls will beat the older designs. The thinner > keel section is > part of that but hull shape is at least as important. For example, my > Choate 40 was > modified for Transpac by the builder. The entry was flatter and the hull > was wider. We > could not point with the other Choate 40s, other things being equal. > Downwind, we did > not have the same tendency of the fine entry to dig into the back of waves > and we surfed > better. In a race around the marks, we lost ground on the beat and gained > it downwind. > The harder it blew, the more pronounced was that effect. And we all had > the same shape > keel. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Hey everyone, Don't forget to update the "Subject" line when changing topics within a thread. Cheers, Scott >From: "mtkennedy1" <mt… [at] cox.net> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:26:56 -0000 > >--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external >ballast? And how do >you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in >Ohio. thanks! >Jeff > >I had a Cal 34 for about six years. I had trouble with the Atomic 4 engine >and, while lots of >people still have them and seem to love them, I would look hard at that. >The boat has a >longish keel by recent standards and has internal ballast. There is a nice >deep bilge above >the ballast. I liked the layout for cruising and we had six people aboard >comfortably at >Catalina Island for long weekends. The one I had was the original layout >with a dinette to >port and galley to starboard. There was a quarterberth on one side. For >more than three, >the dinnette was converted to a double bunk. Two people would be quite >comfortable in >the vee-berth. In summer, kids would often sleep in the cockpit although >mosquitoes are >not a problem here. I have some pictures of mine in cruising mode and could >post them if >it would help. > >MIke Kennedy >Conquest cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: Hello all, > > > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat >is a Pearson. I do >still own the Cal 34 III though! > > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). >It is a below >deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of >the unit were >disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to >the company for a >diagnostic check up. > > > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this >brand when the >discussion comes up. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Greg > > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > > 1986 P36-2 > > Four the Soul > > > > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

HELLOOOO! Once again it is time for your favorite List Curmudgeon to rise from the deep, dark past and request that when you change the topic, you change the subject line in the message. People who receive the digest and many others who might have real interest in various topics can neither provide information and advice nor benefit from questions and responses disguised cleverly (inside joke intended, here) by subject lines that have not one bloody thing to do with the message content. If you really want to help other listees with advice, opinions, comments and questions, if you really want answers, ideas and opinions, make sure that the subject line reflects what you are talking about. PLEASE. Chris Campbell excepted, of course, because he's a lawyer and very precise about such things, most of us at least occasionally fail to do this. Regardless, please make a real effort to have courtesy for other Cal Listees and change the subject line. That's it for now. I'm feeling all festive again. Dr. Kerr Mudgeon (aka \Rog)

You mean there are two of us? Thanks, Scott. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Sauvageot Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:52 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Topics (was RE: Autopilots) Hey everyone, Don't forget to update the "Subject" line when changing topics within a thread. Cheers, Scott >From: "mtkennedy1" <mtkennedy1@cox. <mailto:mtkennedy1%40cox.net> net> >Reply-To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:26:56 -0000 > >--- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external >ballast? And how do >you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in >Ohio. thanks! >Jeff > >I had a Cal 34 for about six years. I had trouble with the Atomic 4 engine >and, while lots of >people still have them and seem to love them, I would look hard at that. >The boat has a >longish keel by recent standards and has internal ballast. There is a nice >deep bilge above >the ballast. I liked the layout for cruising and we had six people aboard >comfortably at >Catalina Island for long weekends. The one I had was the original layout >with a dinette to >port and galley to starboard. There was a quarterberth on one side. For >more than three, >the dinnette was converted to a double bunk. Two people would be quite >comfortable in >the vee-berth. In summer, kids would often sleep in the cockpit although >mosquitoes are >not a problem here. I have some pictures of mine in cruising mode and could >post them if >it would help. > >MIke Kennedy >Conquest cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: Hello all, > > > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat >is a Pearson. I do >still own the Cal 34 III though! > > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). >It is a below >deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of >the unit were >disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to >the company for a >diagnostic check up. > > > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this >brand when the >discussion comes up. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Greg > > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > > 1986 P36-2 > > Four the Soul > > > > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio. <http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001> msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

Thanks! I read that he does have one on the testimonial page of the companies web site. Looks like a good unit from the site, however I never hear anybody talking about these units. I do know that they are expensive, so maybe that is the case...... Anyway, thanks for the response. Have a great holiday! Greg 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) 1986 Pearson P36-2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Fin Beven To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Autopilots (Greg) Greg ... I have some recollection that Stan Honey uses an Alpha autopilot when he sails his Cal-40 single-handed. I think that he developed (for his personal use) some tricky software to make it work even better. While sailing alone, he set a record for the fastest passage on a Cal-40 sailing from California to Hawaii. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. Thanks! Greg 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) 1986 P36-2 Four the Soul

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external ballast? And how do you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in Ohio. thanks! Jeff > > Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: Hello all, > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. > > Thanks! > > Greg > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > 1986 P36-2 > Four the Soul > Cal 34's have internal ballast. Cal 20's have external ballast. You might want to check out www.sailboatowners.com All sailors have a forum there as well as a forum for particular boat makes including Pearson.

I use that site as well for my Cal and Pearson. I posted about an auto pilot and am requesting info from the knowledgeable sailing group here that I have known for 5+/- years. I think someone (Jeff) changed the response and forgot to change the heading. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: camaflge To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: > > I have a question about the Cal 34. Does it have internal or external ballast? And how do you feel about the boat in general-I'm thinking about trying to find one in Ohio. thanks! Jeff > > Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: Hello all, > > Hoping this fine list can help me a bit again, even though my new boat is a Pearson. I do still own the Cal 34 III though! > I have an Alpha Marine 4404 Auto-Pilot that came with my boat (P36-2). It is a below deck unit, however is not functioning as most of the wires in the back of the unit were disconnected. I am sending the entire unit (including loran interface) to the company for a diagnostic check up. > > Any opinions / experience with these units? I never hear mention of this brand when the discussion comes up. > > Thanks! > > Greg > 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) > 1986 P36-2 > Four the Soul > Cal 34's have internal ballast. Cal 20's have external ballast. You might want to check out www.sailboatowners.com All sailors have a forum there as well as a forum for particular boat makes including Pearson.

For my own information (and to keep my foot out of my mouth in the future), would it be correct to say that the only bolt-on keels in Lapworth CALs were in the original 27 and the T/2? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Walden Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Cal keels WAS: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots My 1973 cal 27 pt had a bolt-on keel, but the cal 39, 1977, has an encapsulated keel with no keelbolts in the bilge. Both are lapworths. I've been meaning to ask about this: anyone have issues with their glassed-in keelbolts? Any reason to do anything about them if no problems are seen? My hull/keel line is invisible, so sign of seperation, no sign of any hard grounding in the past, no leakage in the bilge, stays dry all the time. But I'm so used to being able to see the keelbolts, makes me wonder what they look like. bw From: "mtkennedy1" <mt… [at] cox.net> To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: >> >> Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along...I guess I'm >> thinking about sailing > performance, my preference has been external ballast. Have you had > experience with > boats with external ballast, and did you notice a differnce. thanks! > > The classic Cal boats have internal ballast. Some of the later, > non-Lapworth, models may > have bolt-on keels. My Cal 40 has internal ballast. I've had previous > boats with external > bolted keels and that is characteristic of newer boats. The principle > benefit I can think of is > the possibility of a grounding, especially a hard grounding, in which the > lead is tougher > and will tolerate impact better than a glass surface. Alfred has posted > some other issues > about his keel. In my case, the boat hit a rock in LA Harbor entrance and > that bent the keel > enough to be noticable when sailing. We replaced the keel, a waste of > money that I wish I > had back. If it had been the Cal 40 that hit the rock, the damage might > have been worse > and harder to fix but I don't know that. It was a pain in the a** to > switch that keel. > > If you want a Cal boat designed by Lapworth, I think they are are all > internal lead. I don't > know about the Cal 33. Maybe that is an exception. Others here will know, > especially Rog. > > As far as sailing performance is concerned, there are other design issues > that affect that. > Going to weather, the new hulls will beat the older designs. The thinner > keel section is > part of that but hull shape is at least as important. For example, my > Choate 40 was > modified for Transpac by the builder. The entry was flatter and the hull > was wider. We > could not point with the other Choate 40s, other things being equal. > Downwind, we did > not have the same tendency of the fine entry to dig into the back of waves > and we surfed > better. In a race around the marks, we lost ground on the beat and gained > it downwind. > The harder it blew, the more pronounced was that effect. And we all had > the same shape > keel. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Cal 3-30, Chas. Not sure about others, though. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:25 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] RE: Cal keels For my own information (and to keep my foot out of my mouth in the future), would it be correct to say that the only bolt-on keels in Lapworth CALs were in the original 27 and the T/2? Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com [mailto:Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] On Behalf Of Bob Walden Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:50 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com Subject: Cal keels WAS: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots My 1973 cal 27 pt had a bolt-on keel, but the cal 39, 1977, has an encapsulated keel with no keelbolts in the bilge. Both are lapworths. I've been meaning to ask about this: anyone have issues with their glassed-in keelbolts? Any reason to do anything about them if no problems are seen? My hull/keel line is invisible, so sign of seperation, no sign of any hard grounding in the past, no leakage in the bilge, stays dry all the time. But I'm so used to being able to see the keelbolts, makes me wonder what they look like. bw From: "mtkennedy1" <mtkennedy1@cox. <mailto:mtkennedy1%40cox.net> net> To: <Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Autopilots > --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, Jeff Russell <mustangboy66@...> wrote: >> >> Yeah, small gasoline engines and I don't get along...I guess I'm >> thinking about sailing > performance, my preference has been external ballast. Have you had > experience with > boats with external ballast, and did you notice a differnce. thanks! > > The classic Cal boats have internal ballast. Some of the later, > non-Lapworth, models may > have bolt-on keels. My Cal 40 has internal ballast. I've had previous > boats with external > bolted keels and that is characteristic of newer boats. The principle > benefit I can think of is > the possibility of a grounding, especially a hard grounding, in which the > lead is tougher > and will tolerate impact better than a glass surface. Alfred has posted > some other issues > about his keel. In my case, the boat hit a rock in LA Harbor entrance and > that bent the keel > enough to be noticable when sailing. We replaced the keel, a waste of > money that I wish I > had back. If it had been the Cal 40 that hit the rock, the damage might > have been worse > and harder to fix but I don't know that. It was a pain in the a** to > switch that keel. > > If you want a Cal boat designed by Lapworth, I think they are are all > internal lead. I don't > know about the Cal 33. Maybe that is an exception. Others here will know, > especially Rog. > > As far as sailing performance is concerned, there are other design issues > that affect that. > Going to weather, the new hulls will beat the older designs. The thinner > keel section is > part of that but hull shape is at least as important. For example, my > Choate 40 was > modified for Transpac by the builder. The entry was flatter and the hull > was wider. We > could not point with the other Choate 40s, other things being equal. > Downwind, we did > not have the same tendency of the fine entry to dig into the back of waves > and we surfed > better. In a race around the marks, we lost ground on the beat and gained > it downwind. > The harder it blew, the more pronounced was that effect. And we all had > the same shape > keel. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

If there is anyone on the list with a connection to this group, could you check to see if Bill Lapworth's drawings were donated by the family? They were supposed to have been, but things happen. If not, I'll see what I can do, but it may not be much, because I haven't heard back from Peggy since she moved. Thanks. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

My Cal 2-24, a Lapworth design from 1968, had a bolt-on iron keel with a NACA shaped bulb. The boat was designed, as I've been told, as a racing version of the Cal 25 that would do better in the CCA rule, which it did. Of course, 2 years later the CCA rule was replaced by the now infamous IOR, so the Cal 2-24 was instantly obsolete. My Cal 31 has an encapsulated keel. Jack

Husar, Charlie wrote: > > For my own information (and to keep my foot out of my mouth in the > future), would it be correct to say that the only bolt-on keels in > Lapworth CALs were in the original 27 and the T/2? > Puh-leeeeze, Chas: The highly venerable Cal 20 has a bolt-on, fin-with-bulb, cast-iron keel. Had one before all those newcomers appeared on the scene. Chris Campbell

Rog Jones wrote: > > If there is anyone on the list with a connection to this group, could > you check to see if Bill Lapworth's drawings were donated by the > family? They were supposed to have been, but things happen. If not, > I'll see what I can do, but it may not be much, because I haven't > heard back from Peggy since she moved. > > > Rog: I'm just a member and not really "connected" in the insider sense, but I sent them an e-mail inquiry and will let you know if there is a reply. Chris Campbell

I had the same question and would be very interested to learn if there are any archives to which I could gain access. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > If there is anyone on the list with a connection to this group, could you > check to see if Bill Lapworth's drawings were donated by the family? They > were supposed to have been, but things happen. If not, I'll see what I can > do, but it may not be much, because I haven't heard back from Peggy since > she moved. > > > > Thanks. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet >

Regan James wrote: > > I had the same question and would be very interested to learn if > there are any archives to which I could gain access. > > . You may want to contact Mystic and see what their policies are regarding access to archival materials. I'd love to spend a few days there grazing in their materials. Life is too short and work is too long. Chris Campbell