Cal 25 Rudder "Play"

Hello Cal Group, In getting ready to finally put my little Cal back in the water, I noticed a lot of up and down play in my rudder when I put the rudder back in today. I can lift the rudder up and down with the tiller about a half inch. It is held in with two pins that are wider on one end and smaller on the other that are hammered through the bronze rudder/tiller holder so there is no way to not have the rudder stock in all the way. Is there supposed to be a collar or something around the rudder stock at the top and/or a spacer on the bottom as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Matt Collins "Lost Sailor" 1965 Cal 25 #104 Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi, Matt. Your tiller post sounds different from the more "modern" CALs. I will separately send you several pics. There is a collar with a compression screw that goes over the rudder post, and a second screw that goes through the rudder post itself inside the collar. There is often play. I use sheet plastic (might be teflon - not sure - 1/8" to 1/4 in thick depending on what is available in scrap bins) with 2" and 3" hole saws to make spacer donuts. It is good to have at least one donut under the hull at the top of the rudder to prevent scraping of hull to rudder. Several spacers would not hurt. Could even put one at the top of the rudder post shaft. Don't forget the coke bottle spacer if you have lateral play as well. After all, why do they call them plastic boats? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Garcia Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:19 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 Rudder "Play" Hello Cal Group, In getting ready to finally put my little Cal back in the water, I noticed a lot of up and down play in my rudder when I put the rudder back in today. I can lift the rudder up and down with the tiller about a half inch. It is held in with two pins that are wider on one end and smaller on the other that are hammered through the bronze rudder/tiller holder so there is no way to not have the rudder stock in all the way. Is there supposed to be a collar or something around the rudder stock at the top and/or a spacer on the bottom as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Matt Collins "Lost Sailor" 1965 Cal 25 #104 Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Tonight on CBS Evening News I watched Katie Couric interview Karen James, wife of the Mt. Hood climber whose body was recovered (by some real heroes) from a snow cave after he apparently froze to death. Personally, I found the interview at least morbid and possibly even exploitation, but I' wondering, what did those of you who saw it think? I ask this because nobody interviewed the father of the young lady who was washed off the deck of the Picton Castle a week or so ago, doing what she loved the most and seldom does anyone interview the widows of first-responders or of young men and women who die in our wars, who are following orders and taking care of their buddies and often showing unbelievable courage. If I die doing what I love (sailing offshore, preferably singlehanded) should they interview St. Lori? The reason I ask how you feel about this is that I am curious about whether or not there remains any line that media shouldn't cross - it isn't a moral or religious or spiritual question for me, just a matter of genuine curiosity. Please, if you didn't see the interview or read it on CBS's website, don't comment. It wouldn't be fair. For those who did, please tell me what you think. Thanks. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

When the interview came on, I turned it off as I do not have the time to waste on such a media driven events. I read the paper and heard the news about the event and for me that is enough. I do not need to take the story / tragedy to the next level and see a widow crying about her loss and what it means to her. The world is full of tragic events and I would rather spend my limited time here on earth enjoying my family and keeping them safe and of course sailing with my wife! The media just needs to keep things rollin for our dull complacent lives. It was a horrible thing for those people and their families to go through......God Bless them! Greg 1986 P36-2 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) ----- Original Message ----- From: Rog Jones To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:19 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] A peculiar question Tonight on CBS Evening News I watched Katie Couric interview Karen James, wife of the Mt. Hood climber whose body was recovered (by some real heroes) from a snow cave after he apparently froze to death. Personally, I found the interview at least morbid and possibly even exploitation, but I' wondering, what did those of you who saw it think? I ask this because nobody interviewed the father of the young lady who was washed off the deck of the Picton Castle a week or so ago, doing what she loved the most and seldom does anyone interview the widows of first-responders or of young men and women who die in our wars, who are following orders and taking care of their buddies and often showing unbelievable courage. If I die doing what I love (sailing offshore, preferably singlehanded) should they interview St. Lori? The reason I ask how you feel about this is that I am curious about whether or not there remains any line that media shouldn't cross - it isn't a moral or religious or spiritual question for me, just a matter of genuine curiosity. Please, if you didn't see the interview or read it on CBS's website, don't comment. It wouldn't be fair. For those who did, please tell me what you think. Thanks. \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

both my 27's came with shims looking like giant flat washers to be added at top and/or bottom to eliminate up/down play. I suggest you find or build something similar. Otherwise the rudder can pound up and down. Shim the bottom first. Use as few as possible to just allow the rudder to clear properly when swung from side to side. Add enough on top to finish eliminating the play without binding. My originals were made of material similar to cirduit boards. Phenolic I think it is called. Others may be able to suggest other materials. mine are about 3/32" thick, if I remember correctly. Reggie >From: Jerry Garcia <lo… [at] yahoo.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 25 Rudder "Play" >Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:19:29 -0800 (PST) > >Hello Cal Group, > >In getting ready to finally put my little Cal back in the water, I noticed >a lot of up and down play in my rudder when I put the rudder back in today. > I can lift the rudder up and down with the tiller about a half inch. It >is held in with two pins that are wider on one end and smaller on the other >that are hammered through the bronze rudder/tiller holder so there is no >way to not have the rudder stock in all the way. > >Is there supposed to be a collar or something around the rudder stock at >the top and/or a spacer on the bottom as well? > >Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. > >Matt Collins >"Lost Sailor" >1965 Cal 25 #104 > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/

I was out on the road for the last coupla days, so I missed it, but... I do agree w/ you that there doesn't seem to be any line of decency that the media won't cross. it's all about the ratings I guess. Marsh Rog Jones wrote: > Tonight on CBS Evening News I watched Katie Couric interview Karen > James, wife of the Mt. Hood climber whose body was recovered (by some > real heroes) from a snow cave after he apparently froze to death. > > > > Personally, I found the interview at least morbid and possibly even > exploitation, but I' wondering, what did those of you who saw it think? > > > > I ask this because nobody interviewed the father of the young lady who > was washed off the deck of the Picton Castle a week or so ago, doing > what she loved the most and seldom does anyone interview the widows of > first-responders or of young men and women who die in our wars, who > are following orders and taking care of their buddies and often > showing unbelievable courage. > > > > If I die doing what I love (sailing offshore, preferably singlehanded) > should they interview St. Lori? > > > > The reason I ask how you feel about this is that I am curious about > whether or not there remains any line that media shouldn't cross - it > isn't a moral or religious or spiritual question for me, just a matter > of genuine curiosity. > > > > Please, if you didn't see the interview or read it on CBS's website, > don't comment. It wouldn't be fair. For those who did, please tell me > what you think. > > > > Thanks. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet > > > >

I'm with you Roger. Recently the same question came to me when the Toronto news interviewed a family who had just lost thier 11 year old son when he tried to rescue his friend who fell through the ice on a local pond. I couldn't help but wonder what is served by getting some one to publically display thier grief. I did how ever later her a woman who lost her child a while ago say that she did an interview with the news at the time to be able to tell her childs story. Said it made her feel better. In the case of the girl on the Picton Castle, her father Bob Gainey is a former NHL hockey All Star and current executive for the Montreal Canadians hockey team. Beleave me the media wanted to interview him, but instead got offical press releases from the team as her fahter took time off. I'm sure the question will still come up next time he is interviewed regarding the team after he comes back. Richard 65 Cal 28 Old Flat Top --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > Tonight on CBS Evening News I watched Katie Couric interview Karen James, > wife of the Mt. Hood climber whose body was recovered (by some real heroes) > from a snow cave after he apparently froze to death. > > > > Personally, I found the interview at least morbid and possibly even > exploitation, but I' wondering, what did those of you who saw it think? > > > > I ask this because nobody interviewed the father of the young lady who was > washed off the deck of the Picton Castle a week or so ago, doing what she > loved the most and seldom does anyone interview the widows of > first-responders or of young men and women who die in our wars, who are > following orders and taking care of their buddies and often showing > unbelievable courage. > > > > If I die doing what I love (sailing offshore, preferably singlehanded) > should they interview St. Lori? > > > > The reason I ask how you feel about this is that I am curious about whether > or not there remains any line that media shouldn't cross - it isn't a moral > or religious or spiritual question for me, just a matter of genuine > curiosity. > > > > Please, if you didn't see the interview or read it on CBS's website, don't > comment. It wouldn't be fair. For those who did, please tell me what you > think. > > > > Thanks. > > > > \Rog > > > > Cal 29+ #1 > > Swiss Navy > > > > Cal 2-30 #77 > > St. Lori's Comet >

Folks, I believe that if the woman refused to go in for the interview with Katie Couric, it would not have happened. I would wonder why she did it. If the purpose was encouraging mountaineering safety, then more power to her. If the purpose was 15 minutes of fame, the whole thing leaves me wondering. Take Care Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Fuller Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: A peculiar question I'm with you Roger. Recently the same question came to me when the Toronto news interviewed a family who had just lost thier 11 year old son when he tried to rescue his friend who fell through the ice on a local pond. I couldn't help but wonder what is served by getting some one to publically display thier grief. I did how ever later her a woman who lost her child a while ago say that she did an interview with the news at the time to be able to tell her childs story. Said it made her feel better. In the case of the girl on the Picton Castle, her father Bob Gainey is a former NHL hockey All Star and current executive for the Montreal Canadians hockey team. Beleave me the media wanted to interview him, but instead got offical press releases from the team as her fahter took time off. I'm sure the question will still come up next time he is interviewed regarding the team after he comes back. Richard 65 Cal 28 Old Flat Top --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Rog Jones" <rog@...> wrote: > > Tonight on CBS Evening News I watched Katie Couric interview Karen > James, wife of the Mt. Hood climber whose body was recovered (by some > real heroes) from a snow cave after he apparently froze to death. > > > > Personally, I found the interview at least morbid and possibly even > exploitation, but I' wondering, what did those of you who saw it think? > > > > I ask this because nobody interviewed the father of the young lady who > was washed off the deck of the Picton Castle a week or so ago, doing > what she loved the most and seldom does anyone interview the widows of > first-responders or of young men and women who die in our wars, who > are following orders and taking care of their buddies and often > showing unbelievable courage. > > > > If I die doing what I love (sailing offshore, preferably singlehanded) > should they interview St. Lori? > > > > The reason I ask how you feel about this is that I am curious about > whether or not there remains any line that media shouldn't cross - it > isn't a moral or religious or spiritual question for me, just a matter > of genuine curiosity. >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Folks, I believe that if the woman refused to go in for the interview > with Katie Couric, it would not have happened. I would wonder why she > did it. If the purpose was encouraging mountaineering safety, then more > power to her. If the purpose was 15 minutes of fame, the whole thing > leaves me wondering. > > Take Care > Charlie I passed up a couple of TV moments that did not involve personal tragedy but I still don't understand why people do it. The first time was back in 1972 when I was in practice in Burbank. A young Taco Bell employee was shoving bills into the back compartment of the store safe when her finger rings (she must have had one on every finger) got caught in the slot. The safes had a collar half way back with a slot on one side to shove extra bills into it. A door was attached to the collar so it could only be opened by the armored truck driver. Anyway, she was stuck. The got the door open but it didn't help. They couldn't get her hand out. The fire department brought in a big diamond edge saw but they couldn't get at it. Finally, they tore down the back wall of the Taco Bell and brought the girl, with the safe still attached to her hand, into the hospital ER. She arrived on one gurney with the safe (about four feet long and two feet in diameter) on another. By that time the TV news programs had got the story and we had all of them in the lobby with cameras and reporters. No satellite dishes in those days. The solution was suggested by one orthopedic surgeon I called. We took her and the safe up to the operating room. They put the girl to sleep and, with her relaxed, the safe slipped right off her hand. She had been hysterical for hours. Anticlimax. No amputations. I sent the safe to the pathologist (who had a sense of humor) as "foreign body of the hand." A week later, I got a path report with the measurements and the notation, "Gross only," meaning he wasn't going to make any microscopic slides of it. We all had some fun but I didn't feel like making a fool of myself on TV. I had a couple of other chances when I cared for several people with lion bites at the trauma center but have never considered myself photogenic and I didn't think I wanted the kind of attention TV exposure would bring. I knew another doctor, a GP, who was so foolish as to get involved with a young woman who came to him as a patient. She later accused him of rape. He eventually was acquitted but he told me his practice got busier after the rape charge hit the papers. Except they were all weirdos. He closed his office and went to work as an ER doc. There is such a thing as too much publicity.

I was reading about forespar marelon products and they state that the use of these units below water line is safe with the benefits of no corrosion or worries about grounding them. What is the users-opinion of using these below the water line. Seems like metal is best, but...... Thanks Greg P36-2 Cal 34 III

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: > > I was reading about forespar marelon products and they state that the use of these units below water line is safe with the benefits of no corrosion or worries about grounding them. > > What is the users-opinion of using these below the water line. Seems like metal is best, but...... I've been warned off them as they are said to get hard and brittle with time. Mine are all bronze. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Thanks > > Greg > P36-2 > > Cal 34 III >

Mine only lasted 20 years on my Hunter before I thought they looked a little questionable. I replaced them with Marelon again, I figure the plastic technology has hopefully improved since '86. If it hasn't, I'll replace them again in 2026 if I'm still here. I have a friend that has circumnavigated several times in his Valiant over the last 20 years and swears by them. My Cal has bronze, not that I'm playing favorites or anything... Glen Cal 3-34 Moon Shadow ----- Original Message ----- From: mtkennedy1<mailto:mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: > > I was reading about forespar marelon products and they state that the use of these units below water line is safe with the benefits of no corrosion or worries about grounding them. > > What is the users-opinion of using these below the water line. Seems like metal is best, but...... I've been warned off them as they are said to get hard and brittle with time. Mine are all bronze. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Thanks > > Greg > P36-2 > > Cal 34 III >

Bite the bullet and go Titanium. They exist. :) Matthew Wallace 1965 Cal20 "Cisco"

Actually most of us have these fitting on the bottom in the form of speed and depth transducers. The same ones have been on my Cal since 1985 and they never leak.... Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: glen fromm To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings Mine only lasted 20 years on my Hunter before I thought they looked a little questionable. I replaced them with Marelon again, I figure the plastic technology has hopefully improved since '86. If it hasn't, I'll replace them again in 2026 if I'm still here. I have a friend that has circumnavigated several times in his Valiant over the last 20 years and swears by them. My Cal has bronze, not that I'm playing favorites or anything... Glen Cal 3-34 Moon Shadow ----- Original Message ----- From: mtkennedy1 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: > > I was reading about forespar marelon products and they state that the use of these units below water line is safe with the benefits of no corrosion or worries about grounding them. > > What is the users-opinion of using these below the water line. Seems like metal is best, but...... I've been warned off them as they are said to get hard and brittle with time. Mine are all bronze. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Thanks > > Greg > P36-2 > > Cal 34 III >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: > > Actually most of us have these fitting on the bottom in the form of speed and depth transducers. The same ones have been on my Cal since 1985 and they never leak.... Speed and depth transducers don't have seacocks. It is the sea cock that is at risk when the material gets brittle. Turning it on and off strains the material more than the presence of a depth sounder transducer that does not move. Most speed units I'm familiar with have a plug and the speed transducer is usually kept out of the water. Many people have Marelon seacocks and like them. If you are not going to keep your boat for 30 years, the extra cost of bronze, and the extra effort of grounding all the thru-hulls may not be worth it. I think it's a matter of choice and cost. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > Greg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: glen fromm > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings > > > > Mine only lasted 20 years on my Hunter before I thought they looked a little questionable. I replaced them with Marelon again, I figure the plastic technology has hopefully improved since '86. If it hasn't, I'll replace them again in 2026 if I'm still here. I have a friend that has circumnavigated several times in his Valiant over the last 20 years and swears by them. My Cal has bronze, not that I'm playing favorites or anything... > Glen > Cal 3-34 > Moon Shadow

I figured the seacocks would be the question mark. We do plan on having the boat for many years and are currently restoring the entire boat (recored the entire deck with Nidacore, new non-skid amongst other things). We eventually want to do some long cruises down the eastern coast to the BVI's and live-aboard so dependability and safety are foremost in our minds (as it should be). I would rather use the better product and have a good chance of never having to redo it again. On my Cal, I replaced all of the through-hulls and seacocks with bronze. Thanks!! Greg 1986 P36-2 1977 Cal 34 III (for sale) ----- Original Message ----- From: mtkennedy1 To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Sail Away <Svadas4@...> wrote: > > Actually most of us have these fitting on the bottom in the form of speed and depth transducers. The same ones have been on my Cal since 1985 and they never leak.... Speed and depth transducers don't have seacocks. It is the sea cock that is at risk when the material gets brittle. Turning it on and off strains the material more than the presence of a depth sounder transducer that does not move. Most speed units I'm familiar with have a plug and the speed transducer is usually kept out of the water. Many people have Marelon seacocks and like them. If you are not going to keep your boat for 30 years, the extra cost of bronze, and the extra effort of grounding all the thru-hulls may not be worth it. I think it's a matter of choice and cost. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > Greg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: glen fromm > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Through Hull fittings > > > > Mine only lasted 20 years on my Hunter before I thought they looked a little questionable. I replaced them with Marelon again, I figure the plastic technology has hopefully improved since '86. If it hasn't, I'll replace them again in 2026 if I'm still here. I have a friend that has circumnavigated several times in his Valiant over the last 20 years and swears by them. My Cal has bronze, not that I'm playing favorites or anything... > Glen > Cal 3-34 > Moon Shadow

Until someone can show that the Marelon IS stronger than bronze, I would have to ask "Is the difference in price worth the chance of a sinking?" My guess is that it isn't. If the plastic handle from the pot in the galley breaks, one is not likely to sink. If the tiller breaks off one is not likely to sink. If the MAST falls off, one is not likely to sink right away no matter how inconvenient that might seem. The yard here at Texoma changed one thru-hull for me just after Tejana arrived from Clear Lake. I didn't even ask about Marelon. Holes in the hull need the utmost reliability. As for grounding, the only valid reason I can see is for the purpose of dissipating a lightning strike. My Cal34 is at the facility where the Valiant Yachts are built. It was suggested to me the the bonding wires be removed as it creates more problems than it is worth. As an electrician in a former life, I have seen problems created by multiple grounds. It is a pain in the rear. So they have been removed. I figure that if it good enough for the Valiants, it is good enough for me. I continue to consider about the grounding issue. I am completely re-wiring Tejana. Not a piece of original wire will remain on board. Of course, this won't happen until the A-4 rebuild is completed and complete renewal of the mast is completed. But, if it becomes apparent the the thru-hulls should be grounded, it is easily changed. Walter MacArthur Tejana '70 Cal-34 #301 Sail Away wrote: > > I was reading about forespar marelon products and they state that the > use of these units below water line is safe with the benefits of no > corrosion or worries about grounding them. > > What is the users-opinion of using these below the water line. Seems > like metal is best, but...... > > Thanks > > Greg > P36-2 > > Cal 34 III > >