RE: is it racing? (John) Was: Fast Boats (and not so fast boats)

I had a friend years ago who shared two of my passions: racing sailboats and road racing motorcycles. He was one of the top 10 in the world in the latter, riding at the top level and winning championships for the Honda factory team. He used to scoff at people who questioned how exciting racing sailboats could be, after all they're so slow! He'd say at 160 mph or 6 knots, it's all racing! _____ From: sentto-16485695-5196-1167887296-george.a.elwers=sa… [at] returns.groups.yaho o.com on behalf of John Dawson Sent: Wed 1/3/2007 9:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Fast Boats (and not so fast boats) I believe the 'heavy fiberglass tubs' referred to were Tech Dinghies, the ones I raced thru my teen years. They were designed by MIT, thus the Tech name. Adults might be frustrated with them as they were to some measure cat-rigged floating bathtubs. On the other hand, their contemporaries were the wooden flat-sided, more complex Penguins of that era. The Tech was a very robust, simple little boat with fore and aft flotation chambers, perfect for youths. Like the later Optimists for kids, the emphasis was indeed on tactics and form rather than fancy hardware, thrills and spills, etc. John Dawson T-3 'Pat' T-1 'Sal' (yellow boottop) T-2 'Sue' (green boottop) T-3 'Pat' (black boottop) T-4 'Peg' (red bootop) T-5 'Fay' (blue boottop) T-6 'FiFi' (orange boottop) By the way, this months edition of Chesapeake Magazine has an article on Fred Tilp, the two discarded Naval Academy catboats in 1931 he started with, and the original 11 seascouts of his group. Alfred Poor <ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> wrote: Chris unintentionally dished the poor lumber schooners... >I assume a "timber yacht" is Aussie-talk for a wooden boat, although in >the Great Lakes it could be a lumber schooner. They sailed all over the >lakes, carrying deck loads that looked (and often were) impossible to >sail safely. >But none of them would be race winners, that's for sure. Ahhh... but if only lumber schooners were racing, then one would have to win, no? There's a pernicious snobbery about speed in the sailing world that creeps into conversations. I don't think that people are intentionally prejudiced on the subject, but I contend that it's there (and I know that I'm guilty of it myself). To illustrate my point, my college sailing team often competed at MIT and sailed on the Charles River in their heavy fiberglass tubs. Many of the visiting sailors complained about having to sail these barges, which weren't as fast as the 420s and other fancy boats that they often sailed. But the fact remained that we were all sailing the same type of boat, and the skills that made a fast boat go faster than the rest of the fleet still apply to slow boats, and the better skippers won in MIT's boats just as they did when we sailed in a fleet of hotrods. On the Chesapeake, they used to race skipjacks, which were hardly racing yachts, but it was a race all the same. (And one with more historical significance than most sailboat races, as there was an economic incentive to be first to the oyster beds back in the day.) So whether it's a J-boat or a raft made from milk cartons, it can be raced, and depending on how the race is structured, any boat can win. Alfred Poor 1969 Cal 29 #132, "Pentaquod" Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Want to chip in a little here, since St. Lori and I founded and remain very active in a large, growing, successful and non-profit youth and adult community sailing program and because racing is a large part of what that program employs, here in the middle of the Nevada desert, to train hundreds of kids and adults each year. It may seem that racing is racing to some, but to kids who have almost unlimited virtual/internet/electronic opportunities and real-world options like wakeboarding, white-water kayaking, surfing, sailboarding, snowboarding, jet skiing and much, much more, the thrills and spills aspects are important. Kids and adults are NOT the same and they are not motivated by the same things at all when it comes to boating. Kids over the age of ten seem to look for two things (not in any particular order): Socializing with other kids and 2: adrenalin The programs that provide both are usually successful. The ones that miss out on either aspect usually are not. Our objective is to get the little darlings off the couch so that they will at least for a while leave the "virtual" world on the coffee table or the computer desk and re-enter the real one. This is increasingly difficult as the virtual world, whether online or through videogames, is extremely seductive and addictive. The social opportunities through MySpace and similar web sites are beyond anything most of us can imagine and Disney is about to jump in to add even more. And, there are plenty of thrills and chills and spills available online and courtesy of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. To get kids motivated to substitute real social face-to-face encounters and to get them to try physically demanding activities is a genuine challenge and requires a lot more than a clunky, old dinghy like an Opti, Sabot, El Toro or Tech. They may be fine for eight-year-olds, but as soon as the kids have mastered the basics, you have to get them into team racing in fast boats or you never see them again. CFJs and 470s are okay. 29ers are better. Hobie Tigers are good. Team racing supplies the social opportunities and fast boats supply the thrills. In a way, I guess I am still a big kid, because if I had the time to support it, I'd have a Transpac 52 to play with. Right now, that isn't an option due to work pressures, but if the time comes when I do have that kind of time, you can plan to see me on a quick ride pushing the limits to the extent that my years will permit. Most adults are comfy in boats like the Coronado 15, Lido 14 or the Catalina 14.2. Some like the International 14 or the 5o5 and both are demanding racers. But for kids, this just isn't going to cut it. As Bill Lee puts it so well, "Fast is fun!" \Rog Cal 29+ #1 Swiss Navy Cal 2-30 #77 St. Lori's Comet

Rog Jones wrote: > > > > Kids and adults are NOT the same and they are not motivated by the same > things at all when it comes to boating. > Well, I guess that explains why I'm toward the lower end of the schooner-crew age range. By the time you become an certfied adult (by chronology), you tend to seek out something that _isn't work_ (that is, isn't what you do for a living). It's an escape. > > > Kids over the age of ten seem to look for two things (not in any > particular > order): Socializing with other kids and 2: adrenalin > Sometimes #2 can be provided by the competition instead of the equipment, if the competition is fierce enough. > > > The programs that provide both are usually successful. The ones that miss > out on either aspect usually are not. > Again, no kids on the schooner crew, even though there's lots of adrenaline when you're entering a strange harbor at night with a sea rolling and a mass of advertising lights behind the nav-aid lights, etc., or when some piece of equipment comes adrift at an inconvenient time. > > > Our objective is to get the little darlings off the couch so that they > will > at least for a while leave the "virtual" world on the coffee table or the > computer desk and re-enter the real one. This is increasingly difficult as > the virtual world, whether online or through videogames, is extremely > seductive and addictive. > This is an interesting phenomenon. The source of the addiction and seduction isn't clear to me--I'm way too old--but it's obviously there. Maybe part of it is in the "no pain, no gain" mantra--many activities have that pain or discomfort component, and just getting off your butt requires more effort than remaining seated. Sailing is often wet, cold, and demanding. "Hey, kiddo, come on out with me and get wet and cold instead of sitting here in front of that screen." > Team racing supplies the social > opportunities and fast boats supply the thrills. > And, I will add, an opportunity to interact a bit with adults who supervise and instruct. I've read that interaction with interested adults is a key in developing bright and curious kids. I can recall the older adults who were friendly to me and the other neighborhood kids (and those who weren't, too) and have always tried to remember how nice it was when adults paid attention and engaged us. > > > In a way, I guess I am still a big kid, because if I had the time to > support > it, I'd have a Transpac 52 to play with. > It's really important for adults to have dreams too. Chris Campbell waiting to grow up some day

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Elwers, George A." <george.a.elwers@...> wrote: > > I had a friend years ago who shared two of my passions: racing sailboats > and road racing motorcycles. He was one of the top 10 in the world in the > latter, riding at the top level and winning championships for the Honda > factory team. He used to scoff at people who questioned how exciting racing > sailboats could be, after all they're so slow! He'd say at 160 mph or 6 > knots, it's all racing! One of the kids who used to crew for me as a teenager. grew up to be a very successful young man. Unfortunately, he switched from sailing, which he was very good at, to racing dune buggies. About 6 years ago, while running the course for an off-road race near Las Vegas, he was hit head on by a 4 x 4 who had gotten lost and was going the wrong way on the course. Billy and his uncle, who was riding with him, were killed instantly. He left a nice wife and several kids plus a very successful business that probably did not survive him. I'll take sailing. MIke Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96