Cal 28 flushdeck Displacement 6,000 v. Actual 8099 lbs

Another Cal 28 owner had his boat hauled overland last week. He inquired about the actual weight of the boat versus the acknowledged 6,000 lb. displacement in the spec manual. I told him that notwithstanding the manual's claim, that another old salt at the marina looked at my Cal 28 and estimated she weighed 8,000 lbs. The haulers were notified of the salt's opinion. Turns out the boat actually weighed 8099 lbs, without the Atomic 4 engine. Surely the weight of the cushions, anchors, rode, etc., cannot explain the difference. How does this work. At 8,000 lbs., the Cal 28 isn't such a lightweight afterall. One day I need to haul mine from California to Arizona. Anyone familiar with the permit requirements/process? Thanks.

Bruce Stirling wrote: > > Turns out the boat > actually weighed 8099 lbs, > Bruce: Thanks for reminding me!! I need to buy new wheels & tires for my Cal 20 trailer, and I've been wondering what the boat actually weighs. _Does any body have a good actual-weight figure for a Cal 20_, including standard stuff like spars and outboard? I'd like to have a good estimate for the boat, make a good guess at the trailer, and then consult with the tire people about proper tire capacity. I need to buy some this winter because otherwise I'll get all caught up in spring outfitting and the time will come and the yard guy will be shaking his head at those old tires again (so will I). Chris Campbell

Chris, Cal 20s specs say 1950lbs. C. Chris Collins '63 Cal 20 #323 "still don't know yet" Nashville, TN > > > Bruce: > > Thanks for reminding me!! I need to buy new wheels & tires for my Cal 20 > trailer, and I've been wondering what the boat actually weighs. Does any body > have a good actual-weight figure for a Cal 20, including standard stuff like > spars and outboard? I'd like to have a good estimate for the boat, make a > good guess at the trailer, and then consult with the tire people about proper > tire capacity. > > I need to buy some this winter because otherwise I'll get all caught up in > spring outfitting and the time will come and the yard guy will be shaking his > head at those old tires again (so will I). > > Chris Campbell > >

Chris, tak eit to a truck stop and weigh it. It's only like $8. or so. Very easy. Marsh Chris Campbell wrote: > Bruce Stirling wrote: > >> Turns out the boat >> actually weighed 8099 lbs, >> > > > > Bruce: > > Thanks for reminding me!! I need to buy new wheels & tires for my Cal > 20 trailer, and I've been wondering what the boat actually weighs. > Does any body have a good actual-weight figure for a Cal 20, including > standard stuff like spars and outboard? I'd like to have a good > estimate for the boat, make a good guess at the trailer, and then > consult with the tire people about proper tire capacity. > > I need to buy some this winter because otherwise I'll get all caught > up in spring outfitting and the time will come and the yard guy will > be shaking his head at those old tires again (so will I). > > Chris Campbell > >

Chris Collins wrote: > > Chris, > > Cal 20s specs say 1950lbs. > Call me a skeptic, but I'm never sure if published displacement specs bear any relation to reality when the boat leaves the factory, much less when all the little common things accumulate--the sails, outboard, tool box, compass, PFDs, anchors and rodes, boathook, fire extinguishers, etc. I was hoping somebody had a reality check. Chris Campbell

Marsh Wise wrote: > > Chris, tak eit to a truck stop and weigh it. It's only like $8. or so. > Very easy. > That's easy for you to say! The trailer's out in the snow in the boatyard and on tires that make me nervous every time they must travel the 1/4 mile to the launch ramp! One tire (the "new tire") is on a makeshift rim that has the right bolt pattern but the wrong set-back (the location where it bolts to the hub puts the tire too close to the trailer--only about 3/8" clearance). The other (the "old tire") has enough clearance but is a 14" tire on a 14-1/2" rim, and has a center hole that was enlarged by a cutting torch, and nobody will mount a tire on it. That's why the "new tire" is on a different rim. I had to improvise. The "old tire" has no tread and various sidewall and tread-area cracks. If the "old tire" goes flat, I'll have to try mounting the second "new tire," hope that my grinder-enlarged center hole fits, and that the 3/8" clearance exists on that side, too. Maybe. The whole affair is a disaster waiting to happen, saved only by the fact that the trip only occurs 2x per year, and it's only 1/4 mile, and the yard guys are hauling with their big truck. . I came in to a bit of $$$ at Xmas and decided that new rims and tires would be a fine idea. Then I'll be able to go all over town. Not now. Trying not to press my luck. Chris Campbell

Here's what you do, go to a place that sells used tires and buy two $20. tires for your trailer to take it to the scales. That'd be the BEST way to get your weight, then buy the correct tires. :-) Best, Marsh (Truck Driver dork) Chris Campbell wrote: > Marsh Wise wrote: > >> Chris, tak eit to a truck stop and weigh it. It's only like $8. or >> so. Very easy. >> > > > That's easy for you to say! The trailer's out in the snow in the > boatyard and on tires that make me nervous every time they must travel > the 1/4 mile to the launch ramp! One tire (the "new tire") is on a > makeshift rim that has the right bolt pattern but the wrong set-back > (the location where it bolts to the hub puts the tire too close to the > trailer--only about 3/8" clearance). The other (the "old tire") has > enough clearance but is a 14" tire on a 14-1/2" rim, and has a center > hole that was enlarged by a cutting torch, and nobody will mount a > tire on it. That's why the "new tire" is on a different rim. I had > to improvise. The "old tire" has no tread and various sidewall and > tread-area cracks. If the "old tire" goes flat, I'll have to try > mounting the second "new tire," hope that my grinder-enlarged center > hole fits, and that the 3/8" clearance exists on that side, too. > Maybe. The whole affair is a disaster waiting to happen, saved only > by the fact that the trip only occurs 2x per year, and it's only 1/4 > mile, and the yard guys are hauling with their big truck. . I came in > to a bit of $$$ at Xmas and decided that new rims and tires would be a > fine idea. Then I'll be able to go all over town. Not now. Trying > not to press my luck. > > Chris Campbell > >

You might want to go to a tire shop or wrecking yard and buy three new take off skinny tire spare tires. Many people replace the shrunken spare with full size tires. I used to run them on boat trailers. New tire with rim was $5.00. Rated to carry my Cadillac Sedan DeVille D'Elegance, 1984, for up to 5000 miles at highway speeds. Reggie >From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 28 flushdeck Displacement 6,000 v. Actual 8099 >lbs >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:27:30 -0500 > >Marsh Wise wrote: >> >>Chris, tak eit to a truck stop and weigh it. It's only like $8. or so. >>Very easy. >> > > >That's easy for you to say! The trailer's out in the snow in the boatyard >and on tires that make me nervous every time they must travel the 1/4 mile >to the launch ramp! One tire (the "new tire") is on a makeshift rim that >has the right bolt pattern but the wrong set-back (the location where it >bolts to the hub puts the tire too close to the trailer--only about 3/8" >clearance). The other (the "old tire") has enough clearance but is a 14" >tire on a 14-1/2" rim, and has a center hole that was enlarged by a cutting >torch, and nobody will mount a tire on it. That's why the "new tire" is on >a different rim. I had to improvise. The "old tire" has no tread and >various sidewall and tread-area cracks. If the "old tire" goes flat, I'll >have to try mounting the second "new tire," hope that my grinder-enlarged >center hole fits, and that the 3/8" clearance exists on that side, too. >Maybe. The whole affair is a disaster waiting to happen, saved only by the >fact that the trip only occurs 2x per year, and it's only 1/4 mile, and the >yard guys are hauling with their big truck. . I came in to a bit of $$$ at >Xmas and decided that new rims and tires would be a fine idea. Then I'll >be able to go all over town. Not now. Trying not to press my luck. > >Chris Campbell >

Sheesh. Man up and deal with it. Marsh Wise <ma… [at] reenactor.net> wrote: Here's what you do, go to a place that sells used tires and buy two $20. tires for your trailer to take it to the scales. That'd be the BEST way to get your weight, then buy the correct tires. :-) Best, Marsh (Truck Driver dork) Chris Campbell wrote: Marsh Wise wrote: Chris, tak eit to a truck stop and weigh it. It's only like $8. or so. Very easy. That's easy for you to say! The trailer's out in the snow in the boatyard and on tires that make me nervous every time they must travel the 1/4 mile to the launch ramp! One tire (the "new tire") is on a makeshift rim that has the right bolt pattern but the wrong set-back (the location where it bolts to the hub puts the tire too close to the trailer--only about 3/8" clearance). The other (the "old tire") has enough clearance but is a 14" tire on a 14-1/2" rim, and has a center hole that was enlarged by a cutting torch, and nobody will mount a tire on it. That's why the "new tire" is on a different rim. I had to improvise. The "old tire" has no tread and various sidewall and tread-area cracks. If the "old tire" goes flat, I'll have to try mounting the second "new tire," hope that my grinder-enlarged center hole fits, and that the 3/8" clearance exists on that side, too. Maybe. The whole affair is a disaster waiting to happen, saved only by the fact that the trip only occurs 2x per year, and it's only 1/4 mile, and the yard guys are hauling with their big truck. . I came in to a bit of $$$ at Xmas and decided that new rims and tires would be a fine idea. Then I'll be able to go all over town. Not now. Trying not to press my luck. Chris Campbell See Ya On The Trail, Dave

I also wonder where the 'book' numbers come from. Maybe from marketing droids? I don't know about my Cal 2-27, but my Aloha 32 is in the book at 9,800. The final plans from which the boat was built lists 10,600. Apparently, all of the A32's left the builder even heavier than that. On the other hand, the marketing droid theory doesn't aswer for the Aloha case. The hull is actualy 32' 7", and if you count the bowsprit, it is over 34'. So it should be a 33, or a 327 or a 400 or something like that. Thomas Downing > Chris Campbell wrote: > > Call me a skeptic, but I'm never sure if published displacement > specs bear any relation to reality when the boat leaves the > factory, much less when all the little common things accumulate > --the sails, outboard, tool box, compass, PFDs, anchors and rodes, > boathook, fire extinguishers, etc. I was hoping somebody had a > reality check. > > Chris Campbell DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Marsh Wise wrote: > > Here's what you do, go to a place that sells used tires and buy two > $20. tires for your trailer to take it to the scales. That'd be the > BEST way to get your weight, then buy the correct tires. :-) > Marsh: You completely misunderstand the total disaster of my trailer tires. One rim is 14-1/2 "---apparently it's a special trailer-size rim, designed to prevent people from using car tires. A previous owner somehow stretched 14" tires onto the rims. No tire shop will touch the job now. Plus, those rims had a center hole enlarged via cutting torch. Not pretty. The tire shops see "lawsuit" all over the rims. My "new" 14" rims that I fixed by grinding out the center hole--neatly--have OK tires on them, but the OK tires are about 3/8" away from committing suicide on the trailer rails. Well, one of them is. I haven't actually put the second one on, because the existing tire is still holding air. Barely. So my plan is to buy new rims that fit the hubs together with new tires that fit the new rims. Imagine that: things that fit this trailer. It will be a first. Chris Campbell

r good wrote: > You might want to go to a tire shop or wrecking yard and buy three new take > off skinny tire spare tires. Many people replace the shrunken spare with > full size tires. I used to run them on boat trailers. New tire with rim > was $5.00. Rated to carry my Cadillac Sedan DeVille D'Elegance, 1984, for > up to 5000 miles at highway speeds. > > Now that's an interesting idea. If they can hold up a Cadillac of 1984 vintage, they ought to support my little boat. Chris Campbell

Oh I understand, I'm just worried you'll get the tires and they won't be rated heavy ehough. I guess go way overboard on the weight.... :-0 Chris Campbell wrote: > Marsh Wise wrote: > >> Here's what you do, go to a place that sells used tires and buy two >> $20. tires for your trailer to take it to the scales. That'd be the >> BEST way to get your weight, then buy the correct tires. :-) >> > > > > > Marsh: > > You completely misunderstand the total disaster of my trailer tires. > One rim is 14-1/2 "---apparently it's a special trailer-size rim, > designed to prevent people from using car tires. A previous owner > somehow stretched 14" tires onto the rims. No tire shop will touch > the job now. Plus, those rims had a center hole enlarged via cutting > torch. Not pretty. The tire shops see "lawsuit" all over the rims. > My "new" 14" rims that I fixed by grinding out the center > hole--neatly--have OK tires on them, but the OK tires are about 3/8" > away from committing suicide on the trailer rails. Well, one of them > is. I haven't actually put the second one on, because the existing > tire is still holding air. Barely. So my plan is to buy new rims > that fit the hubs together with new tires that fit the new rims. > Imagine that: things that fit this trailer. It will be a first. > > Chris Campbell > >

Marsh Wise wrote: > > Oh I understand, I'm just worried you'll get the tires and they won't > be rated heavy ehough. I guess go way overboard on the weight.... :-0 > Good plan. I was going to engage in informed guessing on the trailer weight, and add a bunch, and then ask the dealer what kind of safety margin ought to be added. Right now, I figure the boat and trailer are about twice the safe carrying capacity of the old tire, the one with no tread and lots of cracks. The tires must be filled with luck instead of air. Chris Campbell

Here's what I'd do, being an engineer geek. Use a bathroom scale. OK, so my bathroom scale only goes to 300 lbs., but it's easy to make a lever that puts a fixed percentage of the weight on the scale. You'll need a jack, a 1' long scrap of angle iron about 4" by ¼", a few feet of 2x12, and a 1' piece of 2x2. You'll also need a bunch of scrap pieces of lumber for chocks. You're going to make a teeter totter out of the 2X12 with one end on the angle (point up on the ground oriented athwartships) and the other on the 2x2 on the scale. If you put the trailer tire on the board 1/5 of the way between the angle and the 2x2 on the scale, the scale will read 1/5 of the weight on that tire. That will weigh up to 1500 pounds with my scale, and if you expect more just adjust the ratio to suit. You could just do one wheel and multiply by two (assuming symmetry) and add 10% for the tongue weight, but being an engineer I'd do both sides and the tongue. You may be able to do the tongue directly on the scale. This would certainly get you 90% accuracy, which is plenty close for your purposes. One more tip-put the jack under the axle rather than under the trailer, that way you don't have to unload the springs to get the wheel off the ground. Chock all the other wheels with those scrap pieces of lumber, and keep your body parts out from under! From: sentto-16485695-5588-1170343629-george.a.elwers=sa… [at] returns.groups.yahoo.com [mailto:sentto-16485695-5588-1170343629-george.a.elwers=sa… [at] returns.groups.yahoo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:22 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 28 flushdeck Displacement 6,000 v. Actual 8099 lbs Marsh Wise wrote: Oh I understand, I'm just worried you'll get the tires and they won't be rated heavy ehough. I guess go way overboard on the weight.... :-0 Good plan. I was going to engage in informed guessing on the trailer weight, and add a bunch, and then ask the dealer what kind of safety margin ought to be added. Right now, I figure the boat and trailer are about twice the safe carrying capacity of the old tire, the one with no tread and lots of cracks. The tires must be filled with luck instead of air. Chris Campbell

Elwers, George A. wrote: > > If you put the trailer tire on the board 1/5 of the way between the > angle and the 2x2 on the scale, > Does it matter that the tire is not really a point load, but kinda smushes out on the board? Is the 1/5 point measured to center of tire footprint? And some bathroom scales get inaccurate (under-read) when they're on a compressible surface like a carpet. Does thawed, slightly muddy ground have a similar effect? At first this sounded hopelessly engineer-geeky but once I figured out that it involved a simple fulcrum it made more sense. Sounds like it's worth trying. Maybe I should try it while the ground is frozen, except that somebody might figure that anybody out under a boat trailer in this weather is nuts or criminal or both, and call the cops. "Really, officer, this is an engineering project." Chris Campbell

You're right, the tire is not a point load, but if you put the center point of the contact area on your mark on the board it should be close, especially if the board is level as it should be for safety even if you don't care about accuracy. When I do it I also block up the other side so whatever I'm weighing is level, but that might be excessive. I've had pretty good luck with this method. Of course, your bathroom scale is calibrated and traceable to the NIST, right? The ground would be an issue, I was thinking it was in a paved lot. A piece of plywood under the scale would help. A friend who had a carpeted bathroom had a built-in platform that hinged out of the wall for the scale, kind of like the way ironing boards used to be built-in. From: sentto-16485695-5591-1170351928-george.a.elwers=sa… [at] returns.groups. yahoo.com [mailto:sentto-16485695-5591-1170351928-george.a.elwers=saic.com@returns .groups.yahoo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:26 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 28 flushdeck Displacement 6,000 v. Actual 8099 lbs Elwers, George A. wrote: If you put the trailer tire on the board 1/5 of the way between the angle and the 2x2 on the scale, Does it matter that the tire is not really a point load, but kinda smushes out on the board? Is the 1/5 point measured to center of tire footprint? And some bathroom scales get inaccurate (under-read) when they're on a compressible surface like a carpet. Does thawed, slightly muddy ground have a similar effect? At first this sounded hopelessly engineer-geeky but once I figured out that it involved a simple fulcrum it made more sense. Sounds like it's worth trying. Maybe I should try it while the ground is frozen, except that somebody might figure that anybody out under a boat trailer in this weather is nuts or criminal or both, and call the cops. "Really, officer, this is an engineering project." Chris Campbell

Elwers, George A. wrote: > > The ground would be an issue, I was thinking it was in a paved lot. > You have to remember that this is low-budget yachting. The Hinckleys and the go-fast boats are over in the paved lot. I will confess that the other boat lives indoors on a concrete floor, but that just about exhausts my budget. The Cal trailer gets poked into any space the boat-hauler can find. He got evicted from his rented yard last summer because it was donated to a group of nonprofits, one of whom I belong to. He found another place to rent and this year I'm parked between to an old oil-storage tank with a door cut into it for storage use and a pile of miscellaneous debris. It is a not a scene that would be used in the glossy magazines to illustrate an article on boat maintenance. What it lacks in amenities, it makes up for in cost. Chris Campbell

The published displacement is math calculation made by naval architects during the design process. If one were to actually measure the real displacement I'm sure the numbers would be closer. Also the calculated displacement is based on the designed water line. By ther time the boat is actually built and rigged the designed may be significatlly different than intended, thicker lay up, heavier interior build, rigging, unplaned reinforcemnet of hull, deck or other areas. It all adds up especially in older boat like Cals were the science of fiberglass building was still in developement and builders tended to over build hulls. I have read that travel lifts and crane scales are less than acurate because of the distribution of the weight on slings and such. A truck scale is more acurate probibly within a hundred pounds. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Another Cal 28 owner had his boat hauled overland last week. He > inquired about the actual weight of the boat versus the acknowledged > 6,000 lb. displacement in the spec manual. I told him that > notwithstanding the manual's claim, that another old salt at the > marina looked at my Cal 28 and estimated she weighed 8,000 lbs. The > haulers were notified of the salt's opinion. Turns out the boat > actually weighed 8099 lbs, without the Atomic 4 engine. > > Surely the weight of the cushions, anchors, rode, etc., cannot explain > the difference. How does this work. At 8,000 lbs., the Cal 28 isn't > such a lightweight afterall. > > One day I need to haul mine from California to Arizona. Anyone > familiar with the permit requirements/process? > > Thanks. >

load range E should be more than adequate Reggie >From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 28 flushdeck Displacement 6,000 v. Actual 8099 >lbs >Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:22:15 -0500 > >Marsh Wise wrote: >> >>Oh I understand, I'm just worried you'll get the tires and they won't be >>rated heavy ehough. I guess go way overboard on the weight.... :-0 >> > > > >Good plan. I was going to engage in informed guessing on the trailer >weight, and add a bunch, and then ask the dealer what kind of safety margin >ought to be added. Right now, I figure the boat and trailer are about >twice the safe carrying capacity of the old tire, the one with no tread and >lots of cracks. The tires must be filled with luck instead of air. > >Chris Campbell > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms http://www.NexTag.com