Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power

Hey Travis, just got a chance to see you e-mails. Like evreyone says start from engine work back check everything, make sure the two square head bolts that secure the shaft to the coupler are safety wired, and the key is in place. Since you have a new shaft I would hope they replaced the cutless, but one never knows what people will do, it is a bit of a job, did mine last year. There is always the chance you hit something or got soemthing tangled in the prop. I have no experiance with Gori props, I have sailed a boat with the old floding prop with blades that nest in each other, not sure who mades it. I remember going abruptly between FWD and REV to stop vibration. Let me know how you make out. Good luck! Eric

Travis: If the shaft is moving it has to be a problem at the cutless bearing or the shaft flange at the engine. The shate is supported by these two points. I had problems with the coupling flange, sheared off all but one bolt when I got a small pice of rope in the prop during a long trip under power. Also, I have some scans from the Cal 33 owners manual but the scan is too large for the Yahoo user group site do you have another e-mail address I could send them to. Ron S/V Stellar of Course From: Travis <tr… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:02:58 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Took my boat out for her maiden freshwater voyage. Halyard swivel assembly came apart on the 20-year old Hood Seafurl unit. Had to go to the top to retrieve pieces. Then decided to motor out and practice some drills under power. Things went Ok for first 30 or 40 minutes. Did forward, reverse, 180 & 360 degree turns. After about 40 minutes, noticed clanking and vibration when engine in forward or reverse. A friend put her in reverse and I observed a lot of shaking and vibration on the shaft and at the stuffing box and at the hose connected to the stern tube. It was shaking very badly. We decided to motor in at very low speed. At the dock, when in neutral, the motor runs smoothly with no abnormal vibration--at low and high speeds. Later, at the dock, I was able to rotate the shaft freely and only observed the clanking as the folding Gori prop blades alternately opened and closed as I rotated the shaft by hand. My experience prior to this boat is primarily limited to outboard engines, so diesels and inboards are new to me. Any ideas about this or what I should check? What should be expected when shifting to reverse when going forward? Should a lot of vibration be expected with a folding prop in this situation? Thanks, Travis Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL

Ron and Mike, I've done some checking. I can easily rotate the shaft with my hand, and it does not seem to bind anywhere. I can hear a "clunking" sound as I rotate it by hand. I'm assuming this is the Gori prop blades opening/closing. The output shaft coupling appears to be OK. Bolts look to be intact. When the boat was on the hard, I looked at the cutlass bearing. The boatyard mechanic and I agreed that it was in good condition. There was essentially no play between the shaft and cutlass bearing. As well, at that time, I checked the strut, and it looked to be OK. Since the boat was going to fresh water, I removed the shaft zinc and put on two magnesium shaft anodes at that time. If one of these came loose, I suppose it would create quite a racket, but would it cause a lot of vibration? I don't know. I ran the engine at the dock about 45 minutes today. To my ear, it ran smoothly. At the dock, at higher RPMs, while in neutral, shaft rotates very slowly. Also, I put it in both forward and reverse while tied to the dock. RPM was 1000-1200 for this test. DId not notice much. Some shaft vibration, more actually in forward than reverse. Nothing like I experienced Sunday. The motor mounts don't look as if they've moved. However, I suspect these are the original mounts on this 20-year old boat, and I don't know exactly how they should behave. Prior to my launching the boat, the engine ran last during sea trials in November. We motored for about 45min-one hour. No problems then except, as we approached the dock and dropped speed, I noticed some clanking sound. Later, when the surveyor came aboard, couldn't duplicate it, but we just ran motor at the dock. PO replaced shaft with new SS 1 1/4" shaft "about a year ago." I have wondered about alignment on these boats. the shaft is offset from the rudder to port. To accommodate this, the strut is angled to port. I have wondered how difficult alignment would be to do. I'll have to look closely tomorrow, but the stern tube seems to go through the hull aligned with the centerline. Has anyone done shaft alignment? Is this a hard thing to do? It may be time, as Mike suggests to get a diver to look at the situation below the waterline. Ron, my e-mail is: tr… [at] sbcglobal.net Thanks again, all for your ideas. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Eddleman To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Travis: If the shaft is moving it has to be a problem at the cutless bearing or the shaft flange at the engine. The shate is supported by these two points. I had problems with the coupling flange, sheared off all but one bolt when I got a small pice of rope in the prop during a long trip under power. Also, I have some scans from the Cal 33 owners manual but the scan is too large for the Yahoo user group site do you have another e-mail address I could send them to. Ron S/V Stellar of Course ----- Original Message ---- From: Travis <tr… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:02:58 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Took my boat out for her maiden freshwater voyage. Halyard swivel assembly came apart on the 20-year old Hood Seafurl unit. Had to go to the top to retrieve pieces. Then decided to motor out and practice some drills under power. Things went Ok for first 30 or 40 minutes. Did forward, reverse, 180 & 360 degree turns. After about 40 minutes, noticed clanking and vibration when engine in forward or reverse. A friend put her in reverse and I observed a lot of shaking and vibration on the shaft and at the stuffing box and at the hose connected to the stern tube. It was shaking very badly. We decided to motor in at very low speed. At the dock, when in neutral, the motor runs smoothly with no abnormal vibration--at low and high speeds. Later, at the dock, I was able to rotate the shaft freely and only observed the clanking as the folding Gori prop blades alternately opened and closed as I rotated the shaft by hand. My experience prior to this boat is primarily limited to outboard engines, so diesels and inboards are new to me. Any ideas about this or what I should check? What should be expected when shifting to reverse when going forward? Should a lot of vibration be expected with a folding prop in this situation? Thanks, Travis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

I believe that gori props have a gear that forces both blades to act together, at least this what they have on their current 2 blade models. This design means that the blade opens when centrifugal force is applied by spinning rapidly. It therefore it should not open when rotated it by hand. Since you hear a clunk from the prop when you rotate the shaft I'd be suspicious of the gori prop. _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tr… [at] sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:09 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Ron and Mike, I've done some checking. I can easily rotate the shaft with my hand, and it does not seem to bind anywhere. I can hear a "clunking" sound as I rotate it by hand. I'm assuming this is the Gori prop blades opening/closing. The output shaft coupling appears to be OK. Bolts look to be intact. When the boat was on the hard, I looked at the cutlass bearing. The boatyard mechanic and I agreed that it was in good condition. There was essentially no play between the shaft and cutlass bearing. As well, at that time, I checked the strut, and it looked to be OK. Since the boat was going to fresh water, I removed the shaft zinc and put on two magnesium shaft anodes at that time. If one of these came loose, I suppose it would create quite a racket, but would it cause a lot of vibration? I don't know. I ran the engine at the dock about 45 minutes today. To my ear, it ran smoothly. At the dock, at higher RPMs, while in neutral, shaft rotates very slowly. Also, I put it in both forward and reverse while tied to the dock. RPM was 1000-1200 for this test. DId not notice much. Some shaft vibration, more actually in forward than reverse. Nothing like I experienced Sunday. The motor mounts don't look as if they've moved. However, I suspect these are the original mounts on this 20-year old boat, and I don't know exactly how they should behave. Prior to my launching the boat, the engine ran last during sea trials in November. We motored for about 45min-one hour. No problems then except, as we approached the dock and dropped speed, I noticed some clanking sound. Later, when the surveyor came aboard, couldn't duplicate it, but we just ran motor at the dock. PO replaced shaft with new SS 1 1/4" shaft "about a year ago." I have wondered about alignment on these boats. the shaft is offset from the rudder to port. To accommodate this, the strut is angled to port. I have wondered how difficult alignment would be to do. I'll have to look closely tomorrow, but the stern tube seems to go through the hull aligned with the centerline. Has anyone done shaft alignment? Is this a hard thing to do? It may be time, as Mike suggests to get a diver to look at the situation below the waterline. Ron, my e-mail is: travlin74@sbcglobal <mailto:tr… [at] sbcglobal.net> .net Thanks again, all for your ideas. From: Ronald Eddleman <mailto:ro… [at] yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ps.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Travis: If the shaft is moving it has to be a problem at the cutless bearing or the shaft flange at the engine. The shate is supported by these two points. I had problems with the coupling flange, sheared off all but one bolt when I got a small pice of rope in the prop during a long trip under power. Also, I have some scans from the Cal 33 owners manual but the scan is too large for the Yahoo user group site do you have another e-mail address I could send them to. Ron S/V Stellar of Course From: Travis <tr… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:02:58 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Took my boat out for her maiden freshwater voyage. Halyard swivel assembly came apart on the 20-year old Hood Seafurl unit. Had to go to the top to retrieve pieces. Then decided to motor out and practice some drills under power. Things went Ok for first 30 or 40 minutes. Did forward, reverse, 180 & 360 degree turns. After about 40 minutes, noticed clanking and vibration when engine in forward or reverse. A friend put her in reverse and I observed a lot of shaking and vibration on the shaft and at the stuffing box and at the hose connected to the stern tube. It was shaking very badly. We decided to motor in at very low speed. At the dock, when in neutral, the motor runs smoothly with no abnormal vibration--at low and high speeds. Later, at the dock, I was able to rotate the shaft freely and only observed the clanking as the folding Gori prop blades alternately opened and closed as I rotated the shaft by hand. My experience prior to this boat is primarily limited to outboard engines, so diesels and inboards are new to me. Any ideas about this or what I should check? What should be expected when shifting to reverse when going forward? Should a lot of vibration be expected with a folding prop in this situation? Thanks, Travis _____ Don't pick lemons. See all the new <http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2B HNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw--> 2007 cars at Yahoo! <http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2B HNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw--> Autos.

John and others who have made suggestions, thanks a bunch. Less is not always more, especially when you are talking about shaft speed and Gori Props. I was really down yesterday after taking the boat out again and experiencing the shaft jumping around and inducing vibration throughout the boat. I googled the problem last night and came up with the worst scenario I could think of. One site showed a Gori prop with some teeth from one gear broken/eroded to the point that the prop would not open evenly. Where I am, hauling the boat is not done easily or cheaply! So, today, I rented a wet suit and went into the 40 degree lake water to see what was up. The prop opened and closed by hand easily. The shaft did not wobble in my hand and the strut was not loose. I then called Art Karpf from West Harbor Yacht service in New Rochelle, NY. He hauled the boat and derigged it for shipment. He had raced on a boat with a Gori folding prop for years and said that, when you put a Gori prop into gear, you must do it with authority to get the blades open. So, today, a friend and I took the boat out. We initially experienced the vibration when engaging the prop in forward or reverse. My friend then said, "give it some gas." When I did this, the prop went through a momentary vibration and then settled down. I repeated this and it worked. So, I expect some of the problem may be due to the fact that the propeller has some miles on it and has some wobble. But, I suspect that engaging the transmission at low rpms does not force the propeller fully open. The partially open propeller is rotating and this, I suspect, is a very unstable situation--inducing the large vibration. I hope this is all it is. Sounds good anyway! I think it was P.J. O'Rourke who said: "Knots are similar to miles--only more expensive." I feel much better now. Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: John Boyce To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power I believe that gori props have a gear that forces both blades to act together, at least this what they have on their current 2 blade models. This design means that the blade opens when centrifugal force is applied by spinning rapidly. It therefore it should not open when rotated it by hand. Since you hear a clunk from the prop when you rotate the shaft I'd be suspicious of the gori prop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tr… [at] sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:09 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Ron and Mike, I've done some checking. I can easily rotate the shaft with my hand, and it does not seem to bind anywhere. I can hear a "clunking" sound as I rotate it by hand. I'm assuming this is the Gori prop blades opening/closing. The output shaft coupling appears to be OK. Bolts look to be intact. When the boat was on the hard, I looked at the cutlass bearing. The boatyard mechanic and I agreed that it was in good condition. There was essentially no play between the shaft and cutlass bearing. As well, at that time, I checked the strut, and it looked to be OK. Since the boat was going to fresh water, I removed the shaft zinc and put on two magnesium shaft anodes at that time. If one of these came loose, I suppose it would create quite a racket, but would it cause a lot of vibration? I don't know. I ran the engine at the dock about 45 minutes today. To my ear, it ran smoothly. At the dock, at higher RPMs, while in neutral, shaft rotates very slowly. Also, I put it in both forward and reverse while tied to the dock. RPM was 1000-1200 for this test. DId not notice much. Some shaft vibration, more actually in forward than reverse. Nothing like I experienced Sunday. The motor mounts don't look as if they've moved. However, I suspect these are the original mounts on this 20-year old boat, and I don't know exactly how they should behave. Prior to my launching the boat, the engine ran last during sea trials in November. We motored for about 45min-one hour. No problems then except, as we approached the dock and dropped speed, I noticed some clanking sound. Later, when the surveyor came aboard, couldn't duplicate it, but we just ran motor at the dock. PO replaced shaft with new SS 1 1/4" shaft "about a year ago." I have wondered about alignment on these boats. the shaft is offset from the rudder to port. To accommodate this, the strut is angled to port. I have wondered how difficult alignment would be to do. I'll have to look closely tomorrow, but the stern tube seems to go through the hull aligned with the centerline. Has anyone done shaft alignment? Is this a hard thing to do? It may be time, as Mike suggests to get a diver to look at the situation below the waterline. Ron, my e-mail is: tr… [at] sbcglobal.net Thanks again, all for your ideas. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Eddleman To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Travis: If the shaft is moving it has to be a problem at the cutless bearing or the shaft flange at the engine. The shate is supported by these two points. I had problems with the coupling flange, sheared off all but one bolt when I got a small pice of rope in the prop during a long trip under power. Also, I have some scans from the Cal 33 owners manual but the scan is too large for the Yahoo user group site do you have another e-mail address I could send them to. Ron S/V Stellar of Course ----- Original Message ---- From: Travis <tr… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:02:58 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] 1986 Cal 33-2 "Maiden Voyage" Vibration Under Power Took my boat out for her maiden freshwater voyage. Halyard swivel assembly came apart on the 20-year old Hood Seafurl unit. Had to go to the top to retrieve pieces. Then decided to motor out and practice some drills under power. Things went Ok for first 30 or 40 minutes. Did forward, reverse, 180 & 360 degree turns. After about 40 minutes, noticed clanking and vibration when engine in forward or reverse. A friend put her in reverse and I observed a lot of shaking and vibration on the shaft and at the stuffing box and at the hose connected to the stern tube. It was shaking very badly. We decided to motor in at very low speed. At the dock, when in neutral, the motor runs smoothly with no abnormal vibration--at low and high speeds. Later, at the dock, I was able to rotate the shaft freely and only observed the clanking as the folding Gori prop blades alternately opened and closed as I rotated the shaft by hand. My experience prior to this boat is primarily limited to outboard engines, so diesels and inboards are new to me. Any ideas about this or what I should check? What should be expected when shifting to reverse when going forward? Should a lot of vibration be expected with a folding prop in this situation? Thanks, Travis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.