Newbie Questions

Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that couple that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for what we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't mind answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should already know... We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping the boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every weekend on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in and other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing rigging? We have nothing to go by. Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? Is attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between the step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said there was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this a garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it taught. Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. Erin Dawley 1982 Cal 25 MKII Tomah, Wisconsin

Dear newbies.... I just bought a '67 cal 25 last year and spent all season w/ out lights....totally sucked. However, I have a magnesium mast base that is screwed to the deck, and the mast sits on top of this....It kind of guides the mast and positions it for when it is stepped...it is NOT very big. I can take a picture of this and e-mail it to you if you like. Also, I have copper wires that are all attached to all of my chainplates, stem and stern fittings. I assume something then goes to the keel....I really cant tell though. This grounds the mast. George 67 Cal 25 STRAY DOG >From: Chris & Erin Dawley <da… [at] charter.net> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 17:19:38 -0700 > >Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. >We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling >that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that couple >that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh >didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for what >we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't mind >answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should >already know... > >We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping the >boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not >configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house >battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every weekend >on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you >have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need >to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in and >other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we >need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not >sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. > >Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing rigging? >We have nothing to go by. > >Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? Is >attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between the >step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said there >was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. > >What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this a >garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it >taught. > >Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat >Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. >Is this something that we worry about? > >Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. > >Erin Dawley >1982 Cal 25 MKII >Tomah, Wisconsin i'm making a difference.�Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtagline

George, On my Cal 25, the ground wires went to the cockpit drain fitting in a bundle. I disconnected this. If the mast were hit by lightening, it would blow the through hull out of the hull and sink the boat. I agree with Charlie for mast wiring. about 3" up the mast, bring the wires out through the forward end of the mast. Then use a watertight deck fitting IN FRONT OF the mast pedestal. This way you can inspect the through deck fitting without removing the mast. Also, if you do remove the mast, it's a good idea to make sure the screws for the mast base plate are well bedded with a good marine sealant. Water leaks into the plywood deck core are the biggest nightmare for the Cal 25. I just recored my deck last summer. In this case an ounce of prevention is definitely worth a ton of cure. Another area to be sure to bed properly is the teak framing around the pop-top and the teak framing around the forward hatch. These tend to be leak points that can rot the deck core as well. Good luck with the mast wiring! Cheers, Scott Sauvageot Cal 25 #1651 Indefatigable Annapolis, MD >From: "george macon" <ge… [at] hotmail.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 01:45:37 +0000 > >Dear newbies.... > >I just bought a '67 cal 25 last year and spent all season w/ out >lights....totally sucked. > >However, I have a magnesium mast base that is screwed to the deck, and the >mast sits on top of this....It kind of guides the mast and positions it for >when it is stepped...it is NOT very big. I can take a picture of this and >e-mail it to you if you like. > >Also, I have copper wires that are all attached to all of my chainplates, >stem and stern fittings. I assume something then goes to the keel....I >really cant tell though. This grounds the mast. > >George >67 Cal 25 STRAY DOG > > > > > >From: Chris & Erin Dawley <da… [at] charter.net> > >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions > >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 17:19:38 -0700 > > > >Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. > >We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling > >that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that >couple > >that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh > >didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for >what > >we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't >mind > >answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should > >already know... > > > >We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping >the > >boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not > >configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house > >battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every >weekend > >on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you > >have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need > >to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in >and > >other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we > >need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not > >sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. > > > >Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing >rigging? > >We have nothing to go by. > > > >Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? >Is > >attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between >the > >step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said >there > >was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. > > > >What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this >a > >garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it > >taught. > > > >Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading >Sailboat > >Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is >grounded. > >Is this something that we worry about? > > > >Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. > > > >Erin Dawley > >1982 Cal 25 MKII > >Tomah, Wisconsin > >_________________________________________________________________ >i'm making a difference.�Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. >Join Now. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtagline > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > i'm making a difference.�Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtagline

Hi Chris and Erin, I owned a Cal 25-2 up until a month ago. First, if you did not get a manual with the boat, try this link for a manual. Click on "links," and it should display the link to the manual. http://www.systemsfirst.com/Cal25/ As far as the mast step goes, there is a metal casting bolted to the cabin top of the deck. It is a flat casting with an oval lip about 1/2" high. This guides and positions the mast on the step. The mast just sits on this place and is not bolted to the plate in any way. You should be able to see the edge of the metal plate between the mast bottom and the cabin top. The flap above the counter is just as you described. Most people put a trash bag on the other side. I took the door off and left the opening for ventilation below the cockpit. I'll have to defer to others regarding the electrical recommendations. My boat had an outboard motor, and the previous owner had made a battery box for three massive batteries which he located below the companionway steps--where an inboard would be installed. This worked out very well for me. My boat had a proper 110 volt installation with battery charger and a couple of 110 volt outlets. From your description, it sounds like you'll have a lot of power requirements. For rig tension, Loos makes a gauge that measures rig tension on the rigging. I think the instructions have some guidelines as well. I used this on my rig. Do you have a roller furler on this boat? These boats sail very well. Regards, Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris & Erin Dawley To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that couple that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for what we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't mind answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should already know... We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping the boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every weekend on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in and other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing rigging? We have nothing to go by. Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? Is attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between the step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said there was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this a garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it taught. Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. Erin Dawley 1982 Cal 25 MKII Tomah, Wisconsin

(Alright already Rog! fiver will frigging stop lurking already........) Greetings there Erin...... and a Fond Howdy to all my Good Friends Here-bouts ! ! ! ! i can just picture you and your other-half (better or not) in the middle of one of those fancy-dancy yacht stores. with the sales people all dudded up in their pretty pressed blue shirts, yachting caps, pressed white pants and snazzy deck snickers. one of "Them" trying to help you and your lovely wife (sell you $500 to $650 worth of crap that you never seen before), while she and you suddenly start realize that this hole in the water that you euphemistically address as your dream-boat; may cost more to bring into the 21 Century than it did to purchase in the first place. short pause; <giggle, giggle.........> please let me introduce myself; i am "fiver"; Master of "BB- 54". one of the famous Cal 28' flush-deck boats built in the early 60's. She gets Her "temporary" name from Her hull number (54), and the fact that back then they slopped glass and resin into the boats as if gas was $0.28 a gl. and well, it was! so who cared if the hulls got a little thick and heavy. Hey, maybe that's why BB-54 tips the scale at over 8000# lb instead of the 6000# that it should with a empty hull? what-you-think, Rog......? anyway, enough of the funning. if'in you should like to see a picture of the "mast- step" that Cal used on the 28' flush-deck. just go to the Cal-Boats Home Page and look to the left of the page. there will be some choices, among which will be "pictures". click on that. and on the first page that you come to, look for a heading under the pictures "battleship 54". click on that and you will find three pictures, all of which are....you guessed it; "BB-54". one of the three is the mast-step casting. just double click on the picture of choice for a better view. i own both a Cal-28 and a Cal-25. but i use the smaller one for pieces as the hull form was scaled up to make the 28 with little change. good sailing, and a fare breeze, skipper. and feel free to call on us anytime....... fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now resting outside my shop Federal Way, Wa. (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ************************************* --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Chris & Erin Dawley <dawley@...> wrote: > > Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that couple that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for what we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't mind answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should already know... > > We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping the boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every weekend on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in and other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. > > Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing rigging? We have nothing to go by. > > Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? Is attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between the step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said there was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. > > What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this a garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it taught. > > Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? > > Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. > > Erin Dawley > 1982 Cal 25 MKII > Tomah, Wisconsin >

I don't know if anyone addressed the shore power/inverter question, so my two bits (which may be what it's worth.) Don't bother with an inverter. It's money down the drain. If you are installing shore power, then consider what electric devices you really need when sailing. Get those in 12 VDC forms. Inverters are not particularly efficient. Inexpensive one produce sub optimal AC waveforms, and the ones that produce sine waves are expensive. In either case, if you look at just how much your house battery is good for when driving 110 VAC appliances through an inverter, you will start thinking about how to get another 200 to 400 amp-hours of batteries in your boat. For items that you will be using primarily at dock-side, go ahead with 110 VAC power. Just add outlets at strategic points in your boat. Be honest, do you really need a fan or a microwave while sailing? Maybe yes, maybe no, but planning for all 110 VAC accessible while under way will be expensive. Make sure that outlets are GFI, and use marine wiring for everything. Lighting should be 12 VDC obviously. Your charger will keep up with the lighting if you size it correctly. As for how long the battery will last, that's a lot of paper games. List all the 12 VDC items you will be using. Figure the usage patterns (how many hours a day for each, for daytime and for night time), then you can make estimates. Have an accurate volt meter on the battery, and you can track the charge state of the battery. There are fancy electronics that will track the nearly exact battery state, amp hour usage, amp hours remaining, etc., but they are costly and unless you are cruising, likely to be overkill. Use good components and practices for the shore-power, select a good quality charger. Have a battery in good condition and maintain it. For day/weekend sailing, anything more is probably not necessary. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris & Erin Dawley Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:20 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions Went to West Marine yesterday and still feel so lost on what all we need. We have a Cal 25 MKII. I think that it's just that overwhelming feeling that is not helping us to make good decisions. So, yes, we are that couple that is having a heated argument in the middle of the store because dh didn't research enough before we travel 1-1/2 hours to go shopping for what we need to get the boat ready. So here goes... I hope you all don't mind answering some of these probably stupid questions that maybe we should already know... We are trying to figure out the whole shorepower thing. We are keeping the boat at a dock and have shorepower at the dock but the boat is not configured for this. We will have the starting battery and the house battery but how long do these work for? Our plan is to spend every weekend on the boat - Friday evening through late Sunday afternoon). How do you have your boats configured to ensure you have power all weekend? We need to buy a charger yet and a power invertor so that we can plug a fan in and other little things. We will have our two kids with us. Basically, we need to charge the batteries, use a fan, a toaster oven or microwave (not sure which yet), and run lights at night. I'm sure I missed something. Is there a guide for what the tensions should be for the standing rigging? We have nothing to go by. Is there any information on how the mast step is attached to the deck? Is attached directly or is there a piece of wood or something else between the step and the deck itself? The guy who owned the boat before us said there was a piece of wood in there but we can not find any evidence of this. What is the flap for that is above the counter in the "kitchen". Is this a garbage shoot? It has a bungy on the other side of it that holds it taught. Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? Thanks in advance for any help you can give us. Erin Dawley 1982 Cal 25 MKII Tomah, Wisconsin DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. 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Chris & Erin Dawley wrote: > > > Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading > Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast > is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? > I will tackle this part. Grounding of the mast is for lightning protection. There is a lot of disagreement over whether it offers protection or not. I fall into the camp that holds that grounding with a proper air terminal (a sharp-pointed spike or one of those pricey metal brushes) may decrease the likelihood of being struck in the first place, and will probably decrease the damage if you are hit. We in the Great Lakes don't have to worry about lightning hits in the same way that folks in Florida do, but it's comforting as the storm passes overhead to know that you've done all you can do. It's especially comforting when you're out on the water and can't go hide in your car. Sailing through a lightning storm was what finally motivated me to ground my mast. I grounded my mast and standing rigging (forestay; shrouds) using copper lugs and heavy copper wire from an electrical supply house. They all go into the bilge where they connect to a keel bolt (I have external ballast) via a heavy tinned, woven-copper battery grounding strap from an auto parts house. All the experts seem to agree that the grounding wires must use very large radius bends. Sharp bends encourage the lightning current to leap off the conductor, much as a car skids off the road on a sharp curve. On a boat, this may require some compromise. It's one reason why I ran multiple grounding conductors down to the keel bolt. Someone I know had a lightning hit on his fiberglass hull, and it exited through the fiberglass in a very unorganized, dispersed way, leaving a lot of pinholes randomly burned through the hull. Here's a good argument for grounding carefully. It's also said to be important to bond all the major metal chunks on your boat together--engine, lifelines & stanchions, etc. This apparently controls random leaping-about of lightning down below. I haven't done this. There are a lot of publications on lightning protection. I think that the Florida Sea Grant or one of their universities has published a pamphlet (I've got it at home and have seen references since). Chris Campbell

Chris, what about encapsulated hulls. I've never been sure why they have wires running to the keel ballast since there is no exit. I fear grounding to through-hulls, since the whole sucker might blow out. I think the spiky items tou mention attach to the mast and go over the side, but I'm not sure. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 10:01 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Newbie Questions Chris & Erin Dawley wrote: Grounding the mast, our boat is in fresh water and we are reading Sailboat Electrics Simplified and it talks about making sure your mast is grounded. Is this something that we worry about? I will tackle this part. Grounding of the mast is for lightning protection. There is a lot of disagreement over whether it offers protection or not. I fall into the camp that holds that grounding with a proper air terminal (a sharp-pointed spike or one of those pricey metal brushes) may decrease the likelihood of being struck in the first place, and will probably decrease the damage if you are hit. We in the Great Lakes don't have to worry about lightning hits in the same way that folks in Florida do, but it's comforting as the storm passes overhead to know that you've done all you can do. It's especially comforting when you're out on the water and can't go hide in your car. Sailing through a lightning storm was what finally motivated me to ground my mast. I grounded my mast and standing rigging (forestay; shrouds) using copper lugs and heavy copper wire from an electrical supply house. They all go into the bilge where they connect to a keel bolt (I have external ballast) via a heavy tinned, woven-copper battery grounding strap from an auto parts house. All the experts seem to agree that the grounding wires must use very large radius bends. Sharp bends encourage the lightning current to leap off the conductor, much as a car skids off the road on a sharp curve. On a boat, this may require some compromise. It's one reason why I ran multiple grounding conductors down to the keel bolt. Someone I know had a lightning hit on his fiberglass hull, and it exited through the fiberglass in a very unorganized, dispersed way, leaving a lot of pinholes randomly burned through the hull. Here's a good argument for grounding carefully. It's also said to be important to bond all the major metal chunks on your boat together--engine, lifelines & stanchions, etc. This apparently controls random leaping-about of lightning down below. I haven't done this. There are a lot of publications on lightning protection. I think that the Florida Sea Grant or one of their universities has published a pamphlet (I've got it at home and have seen references since). Chris Campbell

Husar, Charlie wrote: > > Chris, what about encapsulated hulls. I've never been sure why they > have wires running to the keel ballast since there is no exit. I fear > grounding to through-hulls, since the whole sucker might blow out. I > think the spiky items tou mention attach to the mast and go over the > side, but I'm not sure. The spiky things are air terminals only. Apparently sharp points are best at collecting and discharging potential differences. I think people have used the bronze sintered-metal radio grounding plates, or multiples of them, as the grounding point. I wouldn't want to use my through-hulls either. I'll try to remember to check the sources at home. Both of my boats have external iron ballast--a pain to paint but suitable for grounding. Chris Campbell >