Stainless Steel Bolts

How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a lifespan. Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key thinks to inspect?

hi, Jeff; as i get the idea that my not so subtle humor is falling flat around here right now....... i will try and avoid any more of it in my response to you. i know what you mean about SS marine stock having a life-span. and i find some of that due to fatigue in the metal it's self, or the wrong grade of SS being used for the application. and some of it just do to the engineering of the application and the fact that no choice is the "best choice" for that purpose. SS doesn't like to be used in certain environments where it's starved of oxygen. such as inside of shaft-bearing that sit un-turned in water for months at a time. it is for this reason that i never re-used a *Critical* SS fastener twice in a row. and hand-rail bolt's are critical fasteners in my book. but i was most surprised when i hulled down the mast on BB-54 before bring it up from California to Seattle. in the last years of her life, the boat had been used by amateurs. people who would do such things as torque the standing rigging to the point one could play a jig on it if they had bow. that rigging was the original stuff from the builder; 43 years old. and the only part that wasn't SS were the turn-buckles and pin's therein. they were bronze. and with all of those years of use, and end year's of abuse. all i found was one single newly snapped wire..... now i am not saying that i would take that old rig out in a north-coast blow or anything, but i think it does say something in answer to your question. fiver....... **************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Baumgardner" <jeffbum1@...> wrote: > > How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have > had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I > intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should > replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and > not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a > lifespan. > > Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging > is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key > thinks to inspect? >

My two bits worth: I've heard differing opinions on the likelyhood of rigging failure due to age. I would agree with fiver that just high tension alone should not directly cause failure. In fact, failure is reputed to be caused or hurried by too LITTLE tension, resulting in excessive bending of the wire at the point of entry to the swage, and also to fittings due to mechanical wear and shock. Rigging often fails at the point of entry to the swage, or sometimes (if the swaging was not perfect) just inside the swage. Penetrant dye testing or magnaflux testing would reveal these. Magnaflux is a bit tricky for several reasons. Penatrant dye is easy, but won't directly reveal cacks in the wire inside the swage, though it may reveal cracks at the point of entry. Sometimes failure can be detected by a crack in the swage itself in the area that was rolled to form the swage. This will show easily by dye testing, and can be bad enough to be visible on close inspection without dye. Any such crack would be, IMHO, reason to replace that bit of rigging. The first year I had my 2-27 I detected such a crack in the starboard lower shroud. As I sail in snotty weather, I decided to replace all the standing rigging as insurance. BTW, it's recomended to go up one size from stock on the 2-27, I don't know about other Cal's. I'm also with fiver on reuse of stainless fasteners in safety related applications. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of slickbutfoxbuger Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 2:20 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stainless Steel Bolts hi, Jeff; as i get the idea that my not so subtle humor is falling flat around here right now....... i will try and avoid any more of it in my response to you. i know what you mean about SS marine stock having a life-span. and i find some of that due to fatigue in the metal it's self, or the wrong grade of SS being used for the application. and some of it just do to the engineering of the application and the fact that no choice is the "best choice" for that purpose. SS doesn't like to be used in certain environments where it's starved of oxygen. such as inside of shaft-bearing that sit un-turned in water for months at a time. it is for this reason that i never re-used a *Critical* SS fastener twice in a row. and hand-rail bolt's are critical fasteners in my book. but i was most surprised when i hulled down the mast on BB-54 before bring it up from California to Seattle. in the last years of her life, the boat had been used by amateurs. people who would do such things as torque the standing rigging to the point one could play a jig on it if they had bow. that rigging was the original stuff from the builder; 43 years old. and the only part that wasn't SS were the turn-buckles and pin's therein. they were bronze. and with all of those years of use, and end year's of abuse. all i found was one single newly snapped wire..... now i am not saying that i would take that old rig out in a north-coast blow or anything, but i think it does say something in answer to your question. fiver....... **************************** --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, "Jeff Baumgardner" <jeffbum1@...> wrote: > > How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have > had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I > intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should > replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and > not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a > lifespan. > > Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging > is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key > thinks to inspect? > DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

slickbutfoxbuger wrote: > > > that rigging was the original stuff from the builder; 43 > years old. and the only part that wasn't SS were the turn-buckles and > pin's therein. they were bronze. and with all of those years of use, > and end year's of abuse. all i found was one single newly snapped > wire..... > On my other boat, a 1961 Seafarer (26' 3", with wooden mast), all of the standing rigging was original. That made it 45 years old this spring. Based on simple caution and the warnings from others, I had new standing rigging made up this spring before launching. I had no evidence of any sort of failure in the original rigging. It just seemed wise to be cautious after 45 years of service. It's all SS wire with swaged fittings, and with bronze open-body turnbuckles. I have reused the original turnbuckles which have no likelihood of failure. This boat has been sailed exclusively in fresh water and, because our water gets hard every fall, the boat is in service only 6 months per year. The rest of the time the mast is unstepped and everything is stored indoors & dry. That gives the materials a longevity advantage over you folks in the warm and salty parts of the earth who get to sail on soft water year-round. Now the old iceboat is another matter. The standing rigging has a fairly high failure rate from overloading or underdesign. And on my Cal 20, I've had a backstay fail and a friend had his original spreader brackets fail this spring. I had replaced mine with Steve Seal's heavy-duty ones and he had also supplied a larger-diameter backstay for me. Those seem like under-design issues. We used my old original spreader brackets on the friend's boat so he could go sailing. Chris Campbell

Downing, Thomas wrote: > > > > I've heard differing opinions on the likelyhood of rigging failure due > to age. I would agree with fiver that just high tension alone should > not directly cause failure. In fact, failure is reputed to be caused > or hurried by too LITTLE tension, resulting in excessive bending > of the wire at the point of entry to the swage, and also to fittings > due to mechanical wear and shock. Somebody on one of these boat lists pointed out a few years back that there can be higher shock loads on too-slack shrouds when they go slack then tight as the mast moves in seas. I have observed this on my boats, which tend to have slack rigging (I'm not sure the Cal 20 could ever have bar-tight shrouds without lots of under-deck reinforcement of mast step and the "chainplate" brackets that the shrouds end on). As the boat rolls in seas and light air, the slack shrouds tend to snap tight. That kind of cyclical loading ultimately leads to failure (as the folks in Minneapolis have learned with their bridge). My intent is to work a bit on the Cal 20 this winter so I can keep the shrouds tighter next year. Chris Campbell >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Baumgardner" <jeffbum1@...> wrote: > > How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have > had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I > intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should > replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and > not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a > lifespan. > > Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging > is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key > thinks to inspect? > Jeff, I don't know about a "lifespan" per se, but if you have the original bolts connecting the upper and lower shrouds, REPLACE THEM. I recently went through a dismasting on my Cal-25 because the lower shroud bolt had a fatigue crack INSIDE the compression tube in the mast. This happened during a race when the winds were 30 knots. Not fun. I was really lucky nobody was hurt. i happened to have a spare mast in my backyard and replaced those bolts with ones where the shoulder goes all the way through to the tang on the other side. This way there will be no threads inside the mast. The threads are the weak point since they are cut with a die. (I have heard rumors of aircraft grade bolts where the threads are rolled but haven't seen them). The only way to have discovered the stress fractures in the bolt on my mast would have been to disassemble the shroud connection, take out the bolt, slide off the compression tube (ha ha! Good luck!) and then dip the bolt in fluorescent dye and inspect with a UV light. If you have changed them within the last ten years, then I wouldn't worry overmuch. I hope this helps and if there are other opinions, I would like to hear them.

if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink

The Cal 2-27 is kept fairly taut. My problem is with my Aloha 32. In the generlly light western/central Long Island Sound airs it sails notably faster with the rigging as slack as possible. This means that when I am lucky enough to see 12 knoits, pointing causes the lee side to be a little to slack. So that means that I don't have any cotter pins in my turnbuckles so when out for a bit in higher winds when the chop kicks up I can take out the slack by hand if it gets rough enough. Doesn't happen oftern here. I'm sure fiver will design a centrally controlled hydraulic tension system for all the shrouds for me :-) td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:50 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stainless Steel Bolts Downing, Thomas wrote: I've heard differing opinions on the likelyhood of rigging failure due to age. I would agree with fiver that just high tension alone should not directly cause failure. In fact, failure is reputed to be caused or hurried by too LITTLE tension, resulting in excessive bending of the wire at the point of entry to the swage, and also to fittings due to mechanical wear and shock. Somebody on one of these boat lists pointed out a few years back that there can be higher shock loads on too-slack shrouds when they go slack then tight as the mast moves in seas. I have observed this on my boats, which tend to have slack rigging (I'm not sure the Cal 20 could ever have bar-tight shrouds without lots of under-deck reinforcement of mast step and the "chainplate" brackets that the shrouds end on). As the boat rolls in seas and light air, the slack shrouds tend to snap tight. That kind of cyclical loading ultimately leads to failure (as the folks in Minneapolis have learned with their bridge). My intent is to work a bit on the Cal 20 this winter so I can keep the shrouds tighter next year. Chris Campbell DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the same reasons of moistrue and air. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink Yahoo! Groups Links

Tom, get left handed and right handed nuts to put outside the turnbuckle barrels on the shrouds. You tighten these in place, but they can be eased to redo rig. With no cotters or nuts, the turnbuckles will rotate themselves and loosen. The nuts solve the problem and still readily permit adjustment. The nuts should be fine threads (depends on your shrouds). If your boat store does not have the nuts, McMaster-Carr in NJ is a great on-line source for that and many stainless needs. Sell in small qtys with very quick general shipping. I get mine in one day with cheapest shipping method. I own no stock or interest in the place - just get great service. For All: Note that I retiled the mail and deleted a bunch of previous stuff. This allows people to more readily track topics of interest, and keeps the mails to a manageable size. Just a little list discipline that we periodically put out. Cheers Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Downing, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:56 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stainless Steel Bolts The Cal 2-27 is kept fairly taut. My problem is with my Aloha 32. In the generlly light western/central Long Island Sound airs it sails notably faster with the rigging as slack as possible. This means that when I am lucky enough to see 12 knoits, pointing causes the lee side to be a little to slack. So that means that I don't have any cotter pins in my turnbuckles so when out for a bit in higher winds when the chop kicks up I can take out the slack by hand if it gets rough enough. Doesn't happen oftern here. I'm sure fiver will design a centrally controlled hydraulic tension system for all the shrouds for me :-) td

Yeah, mine came w/ those. I was told I should rip them off.... Husar, Charlie wrote: >Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put >on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the >same reasons of moistrue and air. > >Cheers >Charlie > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of r good >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts > >if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no >oxygen, >it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. >We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing >quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing >plates. > >If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits >are cheap. Masts are not. > >Reggie > > > > >>From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com> >>Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >>Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 >> >>How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >>had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >>intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >>replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >> >> > > > >>not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >>lifespan. >> >>Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >>is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >>thinks to inspect? >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance >to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Marsh Wise Webmaster: -reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ -Foresthill.us: http://www.foresthill.us/ -Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ - 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <coming soon to a website near YOU!> Assistant Webmaster: -VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) -LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain *Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now!

Uh OH! What about them strips of VHS tape I been usin' as tell tales? Besides telling me where to go, is they rottin' me shrouds and causing a vapor trail of toxic plastic break down products and estrogen like hormones dat I be breathin' in? Aaarrrggghhhh...wooof......meow?..GULP! Jerry "Husar, Charlie" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the same reasons of moistrue and air. Cheers Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > __________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks, that would be the solution. I wonder if I can get left and right stainless wing-nuts? I thougjht about using clips instead of cotters, but didn;t as that would mean tapping the turnbukles, which would defeat the purpose. So far, turnbuckles turning hasn't been a problem for me - I check my rig tension every couple of weeks, as I sail a few times a week. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:44 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Was Stainless Steel Bolts - Now Cotter Pins (TD) Tom, get left handed and right handed nuts to put outside the turnbuckle barrels on the shrouds. You tighten these in place, but they can be eased to redo rig. With no cotters or nuts, the turnbuckles will rotate themselves and loosen. The nuts solve the problem and still readily permit adjustment. The nuts should be fine threads (depends on your shrouds). If your boat store does not have the nuts, McMaster-Carr in NJ is a great on-line source for that and many stainless needs. Sell in small qtys with very quick general shipping. I get mine in one day with cheapest shipping method. I own no stock or interest in the place - just get great service. For All: Note that I retiled the mail and deleted a bunch of previous stuff. This allows people to more readily track topics of interest, and keeps the mails to a manageable size. Just a little list discipline that we periodically put out. Cheers Charlie Annapolis _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Downing, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:56 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stainless Steel Bolts The Cal 2-27 is kept fairly taut. My problem is with my Aloha 32. In the generlly light western/central Long Island Sound airs it sails notably faster with the rigging as slack as possible. This means that when I am lucky enough to see 12 knoits, pointing causes the lee side to be a little to slack. So that means that I don't have any cotter pins in my turnbuckles so when out for a bit in higher winds when the chop kicks up I can take out the slack by hand if it gets rough enough. Doesn't happen oftern here. I'm sure fiver will design a centrally controlled hydraulic tension system for all the shrouds for me :-) td DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Just my two cents, but it is realy fun to approach the dock under control. Everyone has time to do their job and if they flub tossing the line, which my wife can't yet figure out, we still have plenty of time to retry it, and even if it never works the boat just slides into place. I have just been sailing for a dozen years and the more I sail the slower I want to go in tight situations. Rich Pinkowitz Cal 39, Tantrum Cotuit, MA "Husar, Charlie" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the same reasons of moistrue and air. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

Jerry, you been breathing in something more than hormones, my friend. LOL. Wilkie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:52 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Platic on Stainless Steel Bolts Uh OH! What about them strips of VHS tape I been usin' as tell tales? Besides telling me where to go, is they rottin' me shrouds and causing a vapor trail of toxic plastic break down products and estrogen like hormones dat I be breathin' in? Aaarrrggghhhh...wooof......meow?..GULP! Jerry "Husar, Charlie" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the same reasons of moistrue and air. Cheers Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:jeffbum1%40yahoo.com> > >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > __________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink <http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink> Yahoo! Groups Links

I'm worried that the wind stresses on Jerry's tape on the shrouds will cause uneven loads on the chainplates, and ultimately cause his carbon fiber hull to crack from the torque. Jerry, hope your boat does not sink. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David W. Owen Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:20 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Platic on Stainless Steel Bolts Jerry, you been breathing in something more than hormones, my friend. LOL. Wilkie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:52 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Platic on Stainless Steel Bolts Uh OH! What about them strips of VHS tape I been usin' as tell tales? Besides telling me where to go, is they rottin' me shrouds and causing a vapor trail of toxic plastic break down products and estrogen like hormones dat I be breathin' in? Aaarrrggghhhh...wooof......meow?..GULP! Jerry "Husar, Charlie" <hu… [at] bah.com> wrote: Also, I've heard that those skinny plastic covers that some people put on their shrouds and lifelines are not healthy for the stainless for the same reasons of moistrue and air. Cheers Charlie -----Original Message----- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of r good Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts if there is any moisture getting to the stainless bolt/screw and no oxygen, it will rust through. We ound that on our boat when we bought it. We ended up removing all deck fittings for re-bedding and replacing quite a few screws/bolts. We also took that opportunity to add backing plates. If you don't know the copndition of yoru rig, dye test all swages. Kits are cheap. Masts are not. Reggie >From: "Jeff Baumgardner" <je… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:jeffbum1%40yahoo.com> > >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stainless Steel Bolts >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:29:00 -0000 > >How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have >had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I >intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should >replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and >not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a >lifespan. > >Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging >is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key >thinks to inspect? > __________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink <http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink> Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links

Jeff watch out for sweges that get salt water seeping into them, can't drain or be flushed out, and consequently crack in half-wards when the ends of the rigging wires start to rust. I found that on my forestay and replaced the whole assembly. Jerry slickbutfoxbuger <fi… [at] aol.com> wrote: hi, Jeff; as i get the idea that my not so subtle humor is falling flat around here right now....... i will try and avoid any more of it in my response to you. i know what you mean about SS marine stock having a life-span. and i find some of that due to fatigue in the metal it's self, or the wrong grade of SS being used for the application. and some of it just do to the engineering of the application and the fact that no choice is the "best choice" for that purpose. SS doesn't like to be used in certain environments where it's starved of oxygen. such as inside of shaft-bearing that sit un-turned in water for months at a time. it is for this reason that i never re-used a *Critical* SS fastener twice in a row. and hand-rail bolt's are critical fasteners in my book. but i was most surprised when i hulled down the mast on BB-54 before bring it up from California to Seattle. in the last years of her life, the boat had been used by amateurs. people who would do such things as torque the standing rigging to the point one could play a jig on it if they had bow. that rigging was the original stuff from the builder; 43 years old. and the only part that wasn't SS were the turn-buckles and pin's therein. they were bronze. and with all of those years of use, and end year's of abuse. all i found was one single newly snapped wire..... now i am not saying that i would take that old rig out in a north-coast blow or anything, but i think it does say something in answer to your question. fiver....... **************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Baumgardner" <jeffbum1@...> wrote: > > How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have > had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I > intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should > replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and > not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a > lifespan. > > Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging > is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key > thinks to inspect? >

Hi, Jerry. For All: Make sure to use open barrel turnbuckles. the closed barrel variety (original on many CALs) build up water and rust (among other problems). Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:57 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cracked Sweges was Re: Stainless Steel Bolts Jeff watch out for sweges that get salt water seeping into them, can't drain or be flushed out, and consequently crack in half-wards when the ends of the rigging wires start to rust. I found that on my forestay and replaced the whole assembly. Jerry slickbutfoxbuger <fi… [at] aol.com> wrote: hi, Jeff; as i get the idea that my not so subtle humor is falling flat around here right now....... i will try and avoid any more of it in my response to you. i know what you mean about SS marine stock having a life-span. and i find some of that due to fatigue in the metal it's self, or the wrong grade of SS being used for the application. and some of it just do to the engineering of the application and the fact that no choice is the "best choice" for that purpose. SS doesn't like to be used in certain environments where it's starved of oxygen. such as inside of shaft-bearing that sit un-turned in water for months at a time. it is for this reason that i never re-used a *Critical* SS fastener twice in a row. and hand-rail bolt's are critical fasteners in my book. but i was most surprised when i hulled down the mast on BB-54 before bring it up from California to Seattle. in the last years of her life, the boat had been used by amateurs. people who would do such things as torque the standing rigging to the point one could play a jig on it if they had bow. that rigging was the original stuff from the builder; 43 years old. and the only part that wasn't SS were the turn-buckles and pin's therein. they were bronze. and with all of those years of use, and end year's of abuse. all i found was one single newly snapped wire..... now i am not saying that i would take that old rig out in a north-coast blow or anything, but i think it does say something in answer to your question. fiver....... **************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jeff Baumgardner" <jeffbum1@...> wrote: > > How often should they be replaced? A couple of my stanchion bolt have > had the heads pop off quite easilly when I tried to remove them. I > intend to rebed them all eventually and am wondering if I should > replace all of the bolts and not just some of them. I'm an engineer and > not untill I bought a sailboat did I know that stainless steel has a > lifespan. > > Also on that note what about rigging? I do not know how old my rigging > is but It was ok when I had a rigging inspection done. Are there key > thinks to inspect? >