Good friends and pirates (vessel assist)

What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and me. We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to make it home on sail. All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 PM. I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just wouldn't let me advance. I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that everyone has to make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup motor for that money.

Well down here in the RedNeck Riveria, Sea Tow charges about $150 a year for towing insurance. The plan I have covers any boat I am on as well as my 8 boats. In my opinion, well worth it. Tom Vandiver --- CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the > ocean turned into a > minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my > girlfriend and > me. > > We were heading back on the LA channel and right > about where the Lane > Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs > on my Nissan > outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor > had stopped. It > wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and > nothing I pulled again > and this time I have the handle and the rope. In > that moment I hear > the loudest horn, which meant that the container > ship that just > turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I > get immediately > on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped > me. > > So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind > and no motor. I > tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called > the dock master to > see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, > which if you don't > have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told > me about one > right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the > operator was nice > and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I > was surprised by > all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was > short lived. After > he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and > they start the > clock when they leave their dock which apparently is > in the farthest > corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over > $500 or try to > make it home on sail. > > All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short > I docked around 6 > PM. > > I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I > approached the Cerritos > channel I gave up. I think there is a current there > that just > wouldn't let me advance. > I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow > me. As it turned > out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name > is Ed and is as > nice as they come; he towed me almost to the > temporary slip. > > The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that > everyone has to > make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can > find a backup > motor for that money. > > > > >

CC wrote: > > > > We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane > Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan > outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. > > So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I > tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. > > I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. > > The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone has to > make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup > motor for that money. > There are lots of lessons here. Maybe the first one is our obligation to assist each other when we're out there on the water. It was an old tradition that seems to be less respected these days. Also, we're often oddly reluctant to ask for help. Usually all it takes is a request and others are happy to lend a hand or a tow. I've had tows down the aisle toward my slip twice in the last 15 years. Both were because of balky outboards and unfavorable conditions for sailing in. A second one is always to have an anchor ready to deploy quickly. If you are in the path of a container ship, anchoring won't help much, but at other times, it can keep you out of trouble. I ran out of gas once (note: just once so far; it taught me a lesson) at a very bad time. I was entering a river mouth in a dredged channel and the wind was on the nose. When the motor stopped, the boat began drifting toward shallow water and toward a big fixed aid to navigation. My anchor was not ready to deploy and I learned that lesson fast. A third one is that we can't always sail our way out of trouble. Our boats' berths are often in places that are not designed for access by sail. Contrary currents, heavy boat traffic, variable winds, and all sorts of other things may make it hard to sail to our destination. Maybe you could do it if you have hours to spare and it's on a Tuesday afternoon with no recreational boat traffic, but on a busy weekend, if you try tacking in, everybody will hate you (including your crew that had to be somewhere else two hours ago). Finally, it's a lesson in economics. Some of the tow guys have a virtual monopoly, and that tends to lead to fanciful pricing structures. Maybe you need to convince some capable but unemployed acquaintance to start another tow service to create some competition. Of course, that person might find that equipment & crew & liability insurance require pretty high charges to make a living. Oh, wait, there's at least one more lesson. My experience has been that outboards tend to fail when needed most. When I'm depending on mine, I always try to have an out, an optional plan. "I'll drift out of the channel over there" or "I'll anchor right here" or "I'll hoist the main and run back down the channel." When you start doing that, the "oh, sh__!" moment when the outboard suddenly stops isn't quite so upsetting. And since almost all of us drive cars these days, I'll add the single most important plan for car problems--always carry a spare serpentine belt. The vehicle won't function without them and finding one is very hard at the odd times when they tend to fail. Chris Campbell

I had this same lesson this weekend. I was helping deliver a 27' boat back from Benicia to Berkeley after the Jazz Cup, about 28 miles rhumb, usually a beat except for the last 4 miles. We had good wind and favoriable current for the first 4 hours, but then the flood started and the wind died down. My skipper really didn't want to use the motor, which I understand, but I had a "date" planned that night and didn't want to be late. At one point, it took us almost 3 hours to make 2 miles progress, and we crossed under the Richmond bridge 3 times. :-) Then I pleaded for some engine time, and the skipper finally agreed--only to find the engine wouldn't start. Then I started whining about vessel assist. I have the full plan for 150 a year, they could come out and jump us (the engine was fine but the batts were dead). But then the steel came into the skipper's eyes. I gave up: we sailed all the way in. As usual the wind came up at the end and we had a fine rollicking reach into Berkeley. It only took us 11 hours to do a 28 mile sail. My gps was not on all the time, but it looks like our actual track log was probably close to 50 miles. But we got there, safe and sound, late but not too late. bw On 9/4/07, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: > > CC wrote: > > > > We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane > Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan > outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. > > So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I > tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. > > > I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. > > > The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that everyone has to > make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup > motor for that money. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of lessons here. Maybe the first one is our obligation to > assist each other when we're out there on the water. It was an old > tradition that seems to be less respected these days. Also, we're often > oddly reluctant to ask for help. Usually all it takes is a request and > others are happy to lend a hand or a tow. I've had tows down the aisle > toward my slip twice in the last 15 years. Both were because of balky > outboards and unfavorable conditions for sailing in. > > A second one is always to have an anchor ready to deploy quickly. If you > are in the path of a container ship, anchoring won't help much, but at other > times, it can keep you out of trouble. I ran out of gas once (note: just > once so far; it taught me a lesson) at a very bad time. I was entering a > river mouth in a dredged channel and the wind was on the nose. When the > motor stopped, the boat began drifting toward shallow water and toward a big > fixed aid to navigation. My anchor was not ready to deploy and I learned > that lesson fast. > > A third one is that we can't always sail our way out of trouble. Our > boats' berths are often in places that are not designed for access by sail. > Contrary currents, heavy boat traffic, variable winds, and all sorts of > other things may make it hard to sail to our destination. Maybe you could > do it if you have hours to spare and it's on a Tuesday afternoon with no > recreational boat traffic, but on a busy weekend, if you try tacking in, > everybody will hate you (including your crew that had to be somewhere else > two hours ago). > > Finally, it's a lesson in economics. Some of the tow guys have a virtual > monopoly, and that tends to lead to fanciful pricing structures. Maybe you > need to convince some capable but unemployed acquaintance to start another > tow service to create some competition. Of course, that person might find > that equipment & crew & liability insurance require pretty high charges to > make a living. > > Oh, wait, there's at least one more lesson. My experience has been that > outboards tend to fail when needed most. When I'm depending on mine, I > always try to have an out, an optional plan. "I'll drift out of the channel > over there" or "I'll anchor right here" or "I'll hoist the main and run back > down the channel." When you start doing that, the "oh, sh__!" moment when > the outboard suddenly stops isn't quite so upsetting. And since almost all > of us drive cars these days, I'll add the single most important plan for car > problems--always carry a spare serpentine belt. The vehicle won't function > without them and finding one is very hard at the odd times when they tend to > fail. > > Chris Campbell >

$225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim ladder. Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it out. ~smile~ SMon CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and me. We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to make it home on sail. All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 PM. I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just wouldn't let me advance. I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that everyone has to make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup motor for that money. --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

I think I'll just be a rude, spoiled American and pay the unlimited towing. Yeah, what you say has appeal, but so doesjust getting it done -- NOW! Marsh steve honour wrote: > $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so > expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, > insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. > They don't get constant income. Most of the week they are probably > making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour > to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's he can make his dinner > date or whatever. > > Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't > even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no > service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my > engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, > if the engine won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to > sail home. Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight > docking situations. A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and > hand-over-hand down the pilings will get it done. I have even > inflated my dinghy and used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A > hip-tow works well for that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) > > Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the > dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on > the swim ladder. > > Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self > sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are > further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no > thanks. I'll work it out. > > ~smile~ > > SMon > > CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > > What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a > minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and > me. > > We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane > Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan > outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It > wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again > and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear > the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just > turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately > on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. > > So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I > tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to > see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't > have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one > right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice > and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by > all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After > he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the > clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest > corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to > make it home on sail. > > All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 > PM. > > I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos > channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just > wouldn't let me advance. > I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned > out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as > nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. > > The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone has to > make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup > motor for that money. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> > -- Marsh Wise Webmaster: -reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ -Foresthill.us: http://www.foresthill.us/ -Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ - 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> Assistant Webmaster: -VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) -LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain *Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now!

To each their own. I've only actually used va once, on a raceboat i was crewing on. we were on delivery back up the coast. we planned to leave santa cruz at 4 am. dead batts. called va, was there in 45 minutes and off we go. Delivery crew all happy, they really wanted to be back home that night. Could we have sailed out? No. no wind. If it were back in slocum's day we would have manned the sweeps and made our way out to the wind--except there wasn't any. Great day for a motor delivery--bad day to sail. If you have the kind of lifestyle where you can drop the hook and work on the boat for half a day instead of needing to be home in 2, then great. Or if you can hang around in port and relax until the weather lets you sail. Man, that life would be sweet. I admire that, hope to get to that situation some day, but right now I have to work to support my addiction, and there's the family too, so there's reasons why my emergency plans can't just be to drop hook and fix it myself. bw On 9/4/07, Marsh Wise <ma… [at] reenactor.net> wrote: > > I think I'll just be a rude, spoiled American and pay the unlimited > towing. Yeah, what you say has appeal, but so doesjust getting it done -- > NOW! > Marsh > > steve honour wrote: > > $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so > expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance > and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get > constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems > easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend > warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. > > Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't > even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service > available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I > carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine > won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. > Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. > A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the > pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the > dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink > "rafted" near the cockpit.) > > Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink > motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim > ladder. > > Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. > Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than > the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it > out. > > ~smile~ > > SMon > > *CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> <cx… [at] gmail.com>* wrote: > > What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a > minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and > me. > > We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane > Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan > outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It > wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again > and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear > the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just > turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately > on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. > > So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I > tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to > see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't > have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one > right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice > and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by > all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After > he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the > clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest > corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to > make it home on sail. > > All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 > PM. > > I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos > channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just > wouldn't let me advance. > I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned > out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as > nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. > > The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that everyone has to > make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup > motor for that money. > > > ------------------------------ > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> > > > -- > Marsh Wise > Webmaster: > -reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ > -Foresthill.us <http://foresthill.us/>: http://www.foresthill.us/ > -Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ > - 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> > > Assistant Webmaster: > -VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ > > Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) > -LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ > > Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze > > Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze > > Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt > > Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain > > *Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? > Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now! > > >

exactly. I HAVE to be back at work... just doesn't work to hang for a day or three... Bob Walden wrote: > To each their own. I've only actually used va once, on a raceboat i > was crewing on. we were on delivery back up the coast. we planned to > leave santa cruz at 4 am. dead batts. called va, was there in 45 > minutes and off we go. Delivery crew all happy, they really wanted to > be back home that night. Could we have sailed out? No. no wind. If it > were back in slocum's day we would have manned the sweeps and made our > way out to the wind--except there wasn't any. Great day for a motor > delivery--bad day to sail. > > If you have the kind of lifestyle where you can drop the hook and work > on the boat for half a day instead of needing to be home in 2, then > great. Or if you can hang around in port and relax until the weather > lets you sail. Man, that life would be sweet. I admire that, hope to > get to that situation some day, but right now I have to work to > support my addiction, and there's the family too, so there's reasons > why my emergency plans can't just be to drop hook and fix it myself. > > bw > > On 9/4/07, Marsh Wise <ma… [at] reenactor.net > <mailto:ma… [at] reenactor.net>> wrote: > > I think I'll just be a rude, spoiled American and pay the > unlimited towing. Yeah, what you say has appeal, but so doesjust > getting it done -- NOW! > Marsh > > steve honour wrote: > >> $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything >> is so expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a >> dock, insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and >> waiting. They don't get constant income. Most of the week they >> are probably making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come >> it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's >> he can make his dinner date or whatever. >> >> Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I >> don't even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world >> has no service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to >> work on my engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and >> bide your time, if the engine won't run, sooner or later, >> conditions will allow you to sail home. Kindness of fellow >> boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. A push >> here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the >> pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and >> used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for >> that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) >> >> Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use >> the dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something >> that fits on the swim ladder. >> >> Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self >> sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If >> you are further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra >> $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it out. >> >> ~smile~ >> >> SMon >> >> CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> <mailto:cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned >> into a >> minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my >> girlfriend and >> me. >> >> We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where >> the Lane >> Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan >> outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had >> stopped. It >> wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I >> pulled again >> and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment >> I hear >> the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just >> turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get >> immediately >> on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. >> >> So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no >> motor. I >> tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock >> master to >> see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you >> don't >> have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about >> one >> right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator >> was nice >> and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was >> surprised by >> all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short >> lived. After >> he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they >> start the >> clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the >> farthest >> corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or >> try to >> make it home on sail. >> >> All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked >> around 6 >> PM. >> >> I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the >> Cerritos >> channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just >> wouldn't let me advance. >> I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it >> turned >> out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and >> is as >> nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. >> >> The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone >> has to >> make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a >> backup >> motor for that money. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. >> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. >> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> > > > >-- >Marsh Wise >Webmaster: >-reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ >-Foresthill.us <http://foresthill.us/>: >http://www.foresthill.us/ >-Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ >- 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> > >Assistant Webmaster: >-VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ > >Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) >-LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ > >Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze > >Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze > >Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt > >Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain > >*Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? >Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now! > > > -- Marsh Wise Webmaster: -reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ -Foresthill.us: http://www.foresthill.us/ -Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ - 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> Assistant Webmaster: -VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) -LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain *Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now!

As someone else said, to each his own. I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only one who doesn't have a towing plan from someone - I was starting to feel stupid. But I'm not knocking those who do have such plans, nor commenting on whether one should or shouldn't. One thing about NOT having a plan - it makes me very careful as to maintenance, navigation, etc. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars due to something like that. Hmm...maybe I should get a plan. Nah, so far so good, haven't needed one, knock teak. On the other hand.... From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of steve honour Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:45 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim ladder. Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it out. ~smile~ SMon CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and me. We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to make it home on sail. All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 PM. I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just wouldn't let me advance. I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone has to make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup motor for that money. _____ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! Saturday sundown caught us making our way out of the south bay channel in San Diego. There are several 45 degree turns required to make it out without incident. As long you pay attention it is no big deal. However, the combination of twilight, another marooned sailboat on its beam in the mud about 300 yards away, and the passage of about thirty days since my last visit, all contributed to my smooth slide to a halt. While gazing at four stranded soles sitting high on the beam of a sailboat, completely laid over on its side in the mud, no keel even visible, I managed to miss the last channel marker and cut the last corner in the channel. Immediately prior to my mishap, I was also intent on making sure I waved at every kind of passing boat [another recent topic here]. I was equally focused on whether they acknowledged my salute with a return of their own. Never again. I wondered why the entire crew of the last saluted sailboat was gazing at us with such interest! Their attention was rewarded with our sudden full stop. No more Mr. Nice Guy for me. I am not even going to look at another passing boat. You think they could have shouted/signalled a warning? Several boats went by, and not one offered any assistance. So much for "the code." They didn't even stop long enough for me to invoke "Parlay!" It all happened very quickly. On my last trip I added a bit too much oil to the fuel mixture. Apparently, filling a gas tank with a small amount of remaining gas requires more precision when adding oil to the new combined mix. The motor was spitting, sputtering, and barely moving the boat as we exited the channel. I had already removed and cleaned the plugs, and even added additional gas to the tank thinking I'd fix the mix. We headed off for a mere "three hour tour" designed only to work some gas through the engine. As we headed through the channel making all obligatory turns, we noticed an unfortunate sailor, who grounded his boat in the mud. Not only ground it, did he, but he was in zero water, laid over on his side, with at least four persons gazing over the starboard beam. I looked around and noticed that in my zeal to hail all comers and goers, and to check out the other marooned sailors, I cut the corner off the last jog in the channel. While I thought I was in the middle of it, it realized I as about 75 yards out of the channel. We could not back out of the mud. To keep Debbie's recriminations to a minimum, I told her it was all her fault. I carefully explained that had she not climbed up to the bow in front of me, that I would not have been checking out her lovely figure, thereby causing me to become disoriented and heading off course. That bought me some time, and nothing further was said about how the incident occurred. We pulled out our handy tide chart to see when to expect the next high tide. We noticed from the chart we could try to blame others, too. Our dock mates told us we could sail any where in the bay at night because it was high tide. Not according to the chart! That was a couple of months ago . . . must be a "seasonal" thing. I learn something new from every one of these adventures. I know I learned about tides somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade. Per the chart, we could expect high tide at MIDNIGHT. So we settled in for a five hour wait, hoping to get out of the mud halfway to high tide. First, though, I thought I'd jump into the water and see if I could push us out of the mud. I jumped into warm water. It was above my hips. The wind was blowing against the freeboard and fighting me. I managed to suction-cup myself to the bay floor mud a few times. I then struggled back aboard. [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder.] I grabbed the anchor and re-entered the water, hauling the anchor about 40 feet windward towards the channel. I placed it in the mud, stood on it, and then made it back to the boat. I struggled again to get back on the boat [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder], and then tried to haul on the rode to pull the boat out of the mud. Thought Hornblower/Bolitho/Aubrey did that once or twice. My Danforth just came up into my hands. I ran it back out again and decided to settle in until high tide. Some large powerboat wakes also failed to lift us off. I thought they were just jamming my rudder further into the mud. A check of the GPS showed we were not moving. It was nice out there in the dark. Tijuana's hillside lights to the south, the Coronado strand to the west, the Coronado Bridge to the north, and the lights of Chula Vista and San Diego everywhere else. Stars appeared overhead, too. We turned on our running lights, grabbed three flashlights to signal with and to light up the mast if anyone approached, and settled in [I remembered the discussion online here about the recent ramming by the power boat]. Debbie suggested it was margarita time, but I told her we could not consume anything, expecting a harbor patrol visit sometime soon. She then entertained herself with a head mounted flashlight, exploring the confines of the boat like a miner. She soon tired of that and pulled out her laptop to watch a movie. Soon we had cushions on the flush deck, several flashlights, and Debbie's laptop. We were just getting comfortable and about to watch Maureen O'Hara's first movie [Jamaica Inn - a story about shipwrecks and pirates], when a rescue boat arrived and asked if we called for a rescue. Forwarned of the cost, I said, "no." We asked out of curiosity, "how much is it?" He said it would cost $175.00. I promptly told him we would await the high tide. We pointed him in the direction of the beached boat and told him they were the ones who probably called. He said they were beyond help, and that they would have to await the 12:00 noon high tide tomorrow. I know now that all tides are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Our midnight high tide was not going to be as high as the 12:00 noon high tide. So those people were out of luck. They obviously grounded at high tide, while we did so at low tide. As he backed away empty-handed, he said, "Oh well, I'll toss you a bow line anyway. I can't just leave you here stranded. But you'll have to give me a nice tip!" I didn't like the sound of that, but I was going to look really cheap if I turned him down again, so I stood up to accept the tossed bowline. The rudder was previously stuck in the mud, too, and I worried it might be damaged. As he pulled us out of the mud [it took two seconds], Debbie checked the rudder again and said it was still stuck in the same position. Now I thought we really needed a tow all of the way into the marina. I asked him what it would be to take us to the marina. He said, $75.00, but you better have cash." Hmmm. . . . $175 v. $75??? I told him he had a deal. He told us they referred to our channel as "Golden Pond." He lashed our boats together and his big diesel powered us along nicely. Debbie now wants a bigger motor on the sailboat. I noticed the rudder appeared to work fine, so about 100 yards from the marina entrance, I asked to be freed to make a low profile entrance. We entered under our own power, and no one noticed the vanishing recue boat in the distant night. As we slowed to enter our slip, the motor died and we glided in perfectly. Debbie said it was our best docking, yet. It was surely the quietest. We slid into the marina in the cover of darkness, no one the wiser. It was Miller Time, so we broke out the Margaritas. So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. You will forgive me if I do not sign my name to this message.

LOL! Great story. I have yet to be hard grounded to the extent of needing to wait hours for high water, just a few "touch and go's" and a little "plowing". But I know it's only a matter of time. I just hope when (not if) it happens, I have some nice company on board, a bottle of wine, and the equanimity to see it as an opportunity and not a nuisance. bw On 9/4/07, Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> wrote: > > I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, > confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that > caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as > some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character > of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! > > Saturday sundown caught us making our way out of the south bay channel > in San Diego. There are several 45 degree turns required to make it > out without incident. As long you pay attention it is no big deal. > However, the combination of twilight, another marooned sailboat on its > beam in the mud about 300 yards away, and the passage of about thirty > days since my last visit, all contributed to my smooth slide to a halt. > > While gazing at four stranded soles sitting high on the beam of a > sailboat, completely laid over on its side in the mud, no keel even > visible, I managed to miss the last channel marker and cut the last > corner in the channel. > > Immediately prior to my mishap, I was also intent on making sure I > waved at every kind of passing boat [another recent topic here]. I > was equally focused on whether they acknowledged my salute with a > return of their own. Never again. I wondered why the entire crew of > the last saluted sailboat was gazing at us with such interest! Their > attention was rewarded with our sudden full stop. No more Mr. Nice > Guy for me. I am not even going to look at another passing boat. You > think they could have shouted/signalled a warning? > > Several boats went by, and not one offered any assistance. So much > for "the code." They didn't even stop long enough for me to invoke > "Parlay!" > > It all happened very quickly. On my last trip I added a bit too much > oil to the fuel mixture. Apparently, filling a gas tank with a small > amount of remaining gas requires more precision when adding oil to the > new combined mix. > > The motor was spitting, sputtering, and barely moving the boat as we > exited the channel. I had already removed and cleaned the plugs, and > even added additional gas to the tank thinking I'd fix the mix. We > headed off for a mere "three hour tour" designed only to work some gas > through the engine. > > As we headed through the channel making all obligatory turns, we > noticed an unfortunate sailor, who grounded his boat in the mud. Not > only ground it, did he, but he was in zero water, laid over on his > side, with at least four persons gazing over the starboard beam. > > I looked around and noticed that in my zeal to hail all comers and > goers, and to check out the other marooned sailors, I cut the corner > off the last jog in the channel. While I thought I was in the middle > of it, it realized I as about 75 yards out of the channel. > > We could not back out of the mud. To keep Debbie's recriminations to > a minimum, I told her it was all her fault. I carefully explained > that had she not climbed up to the bow in front of me, that I would > not have been checking out her lovely figure, thereby causing me to > become disoriented and heading off course. That bought me some time, > and nothing further was said about how the incident occurred. > > We pulled out our handy tide chart to see when to expect the next high > tide. We noticed from the chart we could try to blame others, too. > Our dock mates told us we could sail any where in the bay at night > because it was high tide. Not according to the chart! That was a > couple of months ago . . . must be a "seasonal" thing. I learn > something new from every one of these adventures. I know I learned > about tides somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade. Per the chart, we > could expect high tide at MIDNIGHT. So we settled in for a five hour > wait, hoping to get out of the mud halfway to high tide. > > First, though, I thought I'd jump into the water and see if I could > push us out of the mud. I jumped into warm water. It was above my > hips. The wind was blowing against the freeboard and fighting me. I > managed to suction-cup myself to the bay floor mud a few times. I > then struggled back aboard. [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder.] > > I grabbed the anchor and re-entered the water, hauling the anchor > about 40 feet windward towards the channel. I placed it in the mud, > stood on it, and then made it back to the boat. I struggled again to > get back on the boat [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder], and then > tried to haul on the rode to pull the boat out of the mud. Thought > Hornblower/Bolitho/Aubrey did that once or twice. My Danforth just > came up into my hands. I ran it back out again and decided to settle > in until high tide. Some large powerboat wakes also failed to lift us > off. I thought they were just jamming my rudder further into the mud. > A check of the GPS showed we were not moving. > > It was nice out there in the dark. Tijuana's hillside lights to the > south, the Coronado strand to the west, the Coronado Bridge to the > north, and the lights of Chula Vista and San Diego everywhere else. > Stars appeared overhead, too. We turned on our running lights, > grabbed three flashlights to signal with and to light up the mast if > anyone approached, and settled in [I remembered the discussion online > here about the recent ramming by the power boat]. Debbie suggested it > was margarita time, but I told her we could not consume anything, > expecting a harbor patrol visit sometime soon. She then entertained > herself with a head mounted flashlight, exploring the confines of the > boat like a miner. She soon tired of that and pulled out her laptop > to watch a movie. > > Soon we had cushions on the flush deck, several flashlights, and > Debbie's laptop. We were just getting comfortable and about to watch > Maureen O'Hara's first movie [Jamaica Inn - a story about shipwrecks > and pirates], when a rescue boat arrived and asked if we called for a > rescue. Forwarned of the cost, I said, "no." We asked out of > curiosity, "how much is it?" He said it would cost $175.00. I > promptly told him we would await the high tide. We pointed him in the > direction of the beached boat and told him they were the ones who > probably called. He said they were beyond help, and that they would > have to await the 12:00 noon high tide tomorrow. I know now that all > tides are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Our midnight > high tide was not going to be as high as the 12:00 noon high tide. So > those people were out of luck. They obviously grounded at high tide, > while we did so at low tide. > > As he backed away empty-handed, he said, "Oh well, I'll toss you a bow > line anyway. I can't just leave you here stranded. But you'll have > to give me a nice tip!" I didn't like the sound of that, but I was > going to look really cheap if I turned him down again, so I stood up > to accept the tossed bowline. > > The rudder was previously stuck in the mud, too, and I worried it > might be damaged. As he pulled us out of the mud [it took two > seconds], Debbie checked the rudder again and said it was still stuck > in the same position. Now I thought we really needed a tow all of the > way into the marina. I asked him what it would be to take us to the > marina. He said, $75.00, but you better have cash." Hmmm. . . . $175 > v. $75??? I told him he had a deal. He told us they referred to our > channel as "Golden Pond." > > He lashed our boats together and his big diesel powered us along > nicely. Debbie now wants a bigger motor on the sailboat. I noticed > the rudder appeared to work fine, so about 100 yards from the marina > entrance, I asked to be freed to make a low profile entrance. We > entered under our own power, and no one noticed the vanishing recue > boat in the distant night. As we slowed to enter our slip, the motor > died and we glided in perfectly. Debbie said it was our best docking, > yet. It was surely the quietest. We slid into the marina in the > cover of darkness, no one the wiser. > > It was Miller Time, so we broke out the Margaritas. > > So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at > other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides > in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat > dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. > > You will forgive me if I do not sign my name to this message. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

there also must be one with service available where you are. Reggie >From: "Downing, Thomas" <Th… [at] ipc.com> >Reply-To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) >Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 14:19:49 -0400 > >As someone else said, to each his own. > >I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only one who doesn't have a towing >plan >from someone - I was starting to feel stupid. > >But I'm not knocking those who do have such plans, nor commenting on >whether one should or shouldn't. > >One thing about NOT having a plan - it makes me very careful as to >maintenance, navigation, etc. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars due >to something like that. > >Hmm...maybe I should get a plan. Nah, so far so good, haven't needed >one, knock teak. On the other hand.... > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf >Of steve honour >Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:45 PM >To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) > > > > > >$225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so >expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance >and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get >constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems >easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend >warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. > >Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't even >consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service >available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I >carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine >won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. >Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. > A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the >pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the >dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink >"rafted" near the cockpit.) > >Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink >motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim >ladder. > >Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. >Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than >the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it >out. > >~smile~ > >SMon > >CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: > >What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a >minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and >me. > >We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane >Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan >outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It >wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again >and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear >the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just >turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately >on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. > >So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I >tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to >see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't >have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one >right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice >and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by >all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After >he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the >clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest >corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to >make it home on sail. > >All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 >PM. > >I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos >channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just >wouldn't let me advance. >I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned >out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as >nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. > >The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone has to >make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup >motor for that money. > > > > > > > _____ > >Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. >Visit ><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> >the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > > > > > > > >DISCLAIMER: >Important Notice ************************************************* >This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or >otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient >of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please >delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received >it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the >basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer >viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other >systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the >knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not >comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide >not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the >extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, >monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf�. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline1

Don't worry Bruce, we won't tell anyone it was you From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Stirling Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:08 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! Saturday sundown caught us making our way out of the south bay channel in San Diego. There are several 45 degree turns required to make it out without incident. As long you pay attention it is no big deal. However, the combination of twilight, another marooned sailboat on its beam in the mud about 300 yards away, and the passage of about thirty days since my last visit, all contributed to my smooth slide to a halt. While gazing at four stranded soles sitting high on the beam of a sailboat, completely laid over on its side in the mud, no keel even visible, I managed to miss the last channel marker and cut the last corner in the channel. Immediately prior to my mishap, I was also intent on making sure I waved at every kind of passing boat [another recent topic here]. I was equally focused on whether they acknowledged my salute with a return of their own. Never again. I wondered why the entire crew of the last saluted sailboat was gazing at us with such interest! Their attention was rewarded with our sudden full stop. No more Mr. Nice Guy for me. I am not even going to look at another passing boat. You think they could have shouted/signalled a warning? Several boats went by, and not one offered any assistance. So much for "the code." They didn't even stop long enough for me to invoke "Parlay!" It all happened very quickly. On my last trip I added a bit too much oil to the fuel mixture. Apparently, filling a gas tank with a small amount of remaining gas requires more precision when adding oil to the new combined mix. The motor was spitting, sputtering, and barely moving the boat as we exited the channel. I had already removed and cleaned the plugs, and even added additional gas to the tank thinking I'd fix the mix. We headed off for a mere "three hour tour" designed only to work some gas through the engine. As we headed through the channel making all obligatory turns, we noticed an unfortunate sailor, who grounded his boat in the mud. Not only ground it, did he, but he was in zero water, laid over on his side, with at least four persons gazing over the starboard beam. I looked around and noticed that in my zeal to hail all comers and goers, and to check out the other marooned sailors, I cut the corner off the last jog in the channel. While I thought I was in the middle of it, it realized I as about 75 yards out of the channel. We could not back out of the mud. To keep Debbie's recriminations to a minimum, I told her it was all her fault. I carefully explained that had she not climbed up to the bow in front of me, that I would not have been checking out her lovely figure, thereby causing me to become disoriented and heading off course. That bought me some time, and nothing further was said about how the incident occurred. We pulled out our handy tide chart to see when to expect the next high tide. We noticed from the chart we could try to blame others, too. Our dock mates told us we could sail any where in the bay at night because it was high tide. Not according to the chart! That was a couple of months ago . . . must be a "seasonal" thing. I learn something new from every one of these adventures. I know I learned about tides somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade. Per the chart, we could expect high tide at MIDNIGHT. So we settled in for a five hour wait, hoping to get out of the mud halfway to high tide. First, though, I thought I'd jump into the water and see if I could push us out of the mud. I jumped into warm water. It was above my hips. The wind was blowing against the freeboard and fighting me. I managed to suction-cup myself to the bay floor mud a few times. I then struggled back aboard. [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder.] I grabbed the anchor and re-entered the water, hauling the anchor about 40 feet windward towards the channel. I placed it in the mud, stood on it, and then made it back to the boat. I struggled again to get back on the boat [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder], and then tried to haul on the rode to pull the boat out of the mud. Thought Hornblower/Bolitho/Aubrey did that once or twice. My Danforth just came up into my hands. I ran it back out again and decided to settle in until high tide. Some large powerboat wakes also failed to lift us off. I thought they were just jamming my rudder further into the mud. A check of the GPS showed we were not moving. It was nice out there in the dark. Tijuana's hillside lights to the south, the Coronado strand to the west, the Coronado Bridge to the north, and the lights of Chula Vista and San Diego everywhere else. Stars appeared overhead, too. We turned on our running lights, grabbed three flashlights to signal with and to light up the mast if anyone approached, and settled in [I remembered the discussion online here about the recent ramming by the power boat]. Debbie suggested it was margarita time, but I told her we could not consume anything, expecting a harbor patrol visit sometime soon. She then entertained herself with a head mounted flashlight, exploring the confines of the boat like a miner. She soon tired of that and pulled out her laptop to watch a movie. Soon we had cushions on the flush deck, several flashlights, and Debbie's laptop. We were just getting comfortable and about to watch Maureen O'Hara's first movie [Jamaica Inn - a story about shipwrecks and pirates], when a rescue boat arrived and asked if we called for a rescue. Forwarned of the cost, I said, "no." We asked out of curiosity, "how much is it?" He said it would cost $175.00. I promptly told him we would await the high tide. We pointed him in the direction of the beached boat and told him they were the ones who probably called. He said they were beyond help, and that they would have to await the 12:00 noon high tide tomorrow. I know now that all tides are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Our midnight high tide was not going to be as high as the 12:00 noon high tide. So those people were out of luck. They obviously grounded at high tide, while we did so at low tide. As he backed away empty-handed, he said, "Oh well, I'll toss you a bow line anyway. I can't just leave you here stranded. But you'll have to give me a nice tip!" I didn't like the sound of that, but I was going to look really cheap if I turned him down again, so I stood up to accept the tossed bowline. The rudder was previously stuck in the mud, too, and I worried it might be damaged. As he pulled us out of the mud [it took two seconds], Debbie checked the rudder again and said it was still stuck in the same position. Now I thought we really needed a tow all of the way into the marina. I asked him what it would be to take us to the marina. He said, $75.00, but you better have cash." Hmmm. . . . $175 v. $75??? I told him he had a deal. He told us they referred to our channel as "Golden Pond." He lashed our boats together and his big diesel powered us along nicely. Debbie now wants a bigger motor on the sailboat. I noticed the rudder appeared to work fine, so about 100 yards from the marina entrance, I asked to be freed to make a low profile entrance. We entered under our own power, and no one noticed the vanishing recue boat in the distant night. As we slowed to enter our slip, the motor died and we glided in perfectly. Debbie said it was our best docking, yet. It was surely the quietest. We slid into the marina in the cover of darkness, no one the wiser. It was Miller Time, so we broke out the Margaritas. So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. You will forgive me if I do not sign my name to this message. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

r good wrote: > there also must be one with service available where you are. > Reggie > > > >> I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only one who doesn't have a towing >> plan >> Yeah. Where my other boat lies, there wasn't one for many years. Plus, she's a centerboarder and I'd have to try really hard to be stuck aground. Where my Cal 20 lies, there's no towing assistance and no nearby Coast Guard even (we have a CG helicopter station but no boats). So for the Cal a towing package really isn't a realistic option anyway. I'm relying on good luck and vigilance. Chris Campbell

Gracias. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Downing, Thomas" <Thomas.Downing@...> wrote: > > Don't worry Bruce, we won't tell anyone it was you > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Stirling > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:08 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) > > > > I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, > confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that > caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as > some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character > of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! > > Saturday sundown caught us making our way out of the south bay channel > in San Diego. There are several 45 degree turns required to make it > out without incident. As long you pay attention it is no big deal. > However, the combination of twilight, another marooned sailboat on its > beam in the mud about 300 yards away, and the passage of about thirty > days since my last visit, all contributed to my smooth slide to a halt. > > While gazing at four stranded soles sitting high on the beam of a > sailboat, completely laid over on its side in the mud, no keel even > visible, I managed to miss the last channel marker and cut the last > corner in the channel. > > Immediately prior to my mishap, I was also intent on making sure I > waved at every kind of passing boat [another recent topic here]. I > was equally focused on whether they acknowledged my salute with a > return of their own. Never again. I wondered why the entire crew of > the last saluted sailboat was gazing at us with such interest! Their > attention was rewarded with our sudden full stop. No more Mr. Nice > Guy for me. I am not even going to look at another passing boat. You > think they could have shouted/signalled a warning? > > Several boats went by, and not one offered any assistance. So much > for "the code." They didn't even stop long enough for me to invoke > "Parlay!" > > It all happened very quickly. On my last trip I added a bit too much > oil to the fuel mixture. Apparently, filling a gas tank with a small > amount of remaining gas requires more precision when adding oil to the > new combined mix. > > The motor was spitting, sputtering, and barely moving the boat as we > exited the channel. I had already removed and cleaned the plugs, and > even added additional gas to the tank thinking I'd fix the mix. We > headed off for a mere "three hour tour" designed only to work some gas > through the engine. > > As we headed through the channel making all obligatory turns, we > noticed an unfortunate sailor, who grounded his boat in the mud. Not > only ground it, did he, but he was in zero water, laid over on his > side, with at least four persons gazing over the starboard beam. > > I looked around and noticed that in my zeal to hail all comers and > goers, and to check out the other marooned sailors, I cut the corner > off the last jog in the channel. While I thought I was in the middle > of it, it realized I as about 75 yards out of the channel. > > We could not back out of the mud. To keep Debbie's recriminations to > a minimum, I told her it was all her fault. I carefully explained > that had she not climbed up to the bow in front of me, that I would > not have been checking out her lovely figure, thereby causing me to > become disoriented and heading off course. That bought me some time, > and nothing further was said about how the incident occurred. > > We pulled out our handy tide chart to see when to expect the next high > tide. We noticed from the chart we could try to blame others, too. > Our dock mates told us we could sail any where in the bay at night > because it was high tide. Not according to the chart! That was a > couple of months ago . . . must be a "seasonal" thing. I learn > something new from every one of these adventures. I know I learned > about tides somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade. Per the chart, we > could expect high tide at MIDNIGHT. So we settled in for a five hour > wait, hoping to get out of the mud halfway to high tide. > > First, though, I thought I'd jump into the water and see if I could > push us out of the mud. I jumped into warm water. It was above my > hips. The wind was blowing against the freeboard and fighting me. I > managed to suction-cup myself to the bay floor mud a few times. I > then struggled back aboard. [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder.] > > I grabbed the anchor and re-entered the water, hauling the anchor > about 40 feet windward towards the channel. I placed it in the mud, > stood on it, and then made it back to the boat. I struggled again to > get back on the boat [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder], and then > tried to haul on the rode to pull the boat out of the mud. Thought > Hornblower/Bolitho/Aubrey did that once or twice. My Danforth just > came up into my hands. I ran it back out again and decided to settle > in until high tide. Some large powerboat wakes also failed to lift us > off. I thought they were just jamming my rudder further into the mud. > A check of the GPS showed we were not moving. > > It was nice out there in the dark. Tijuana's hillside lights to the > south, the Coronado strand to the west, the Coronado Bridge to the > north, and the lights of Chula Vista and San Diego everywhere else. > Stars appeared overhead, too. We turned on our running lights, > grabbed three flashlights to signal with and to light up the mast if > anyone approached, and settled in [I remembered the discussion online > here about the recent ramming by the power boat]. Debbie suggested it > was margarita time, but I told her we could not consume anything, > expecting a harbor patrol visit sometime soon. She then entertained > herself with a head mounted flashlight, exploring the confines of the > boat like a miner. She soon tired of that and pulled out her laptop > to watch a movie. > > Soon we had cushions on the flush deck, several flashlights, and > Debbie's laptop. We were just getting comfortable and about to watch > Maureen O'Hara's first movie [Jamaica Inn - a story about shipwrecks > and pirates], when a rescue boat arrived and asked if we called for a > rescue. Forwarned of the cost, I said, "no." We asked out of > curiosity, "how much is it?" He said it would cost $175.00. I > promptly told him we would await the high tide. We pointed him in the > direction of the beached boat and told him they were the ones who > probably called. He said they were beyond help, and that they would > have to await the 12:00 noon high tide tomorrow. I know now that all > tides are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Our midnight > high tide was not going to be as high as the 12:00 noon high tide. So > those people were out of luck. They obviously grounded at high tide, > while we did so at low tide. > > As he backed away empty-handed, he said, "Oh well, I'll toss you a bow > line anyway. I can't just leave you here stranded. But you'll have > to give me a nice tip!" I didn't like the sound of that, but I was > going to look really cheap if I turned him down again, so I stood up > to accept the tossed bowline. > > The rudder was previously stuck in the mud, too, and I worried it > might be damaged. As he pulled us out of the mud [it took two > seconds], Debbie checked the rudder again and said it was still stuck > in the same position. Now I thought we really needed a tow all of the > way into the marina. I asked him what it would be to take us to the > marina. He said, $75.00, but you better have cash." Hmmm. . . . $175 > v. $75??? I told him he had a deal. He told us they referred to our > channel as "Golden Pond." > > He lashed our boats together and his big diesel powered us along > nicely. Debbie now wants a bigger motor on the sailboat. I noticed > the rudder appeared to work fine, so about 100 yards from the marina > entrance, I asked to be freed to make a low profile entrance. We > entered under our own power, and no one noticed the vanishing recue > boat in the distant night. As we slowed to enter our slip, the motor > died and we glided in perfectly. Debbie said it was our best docking, > yet. It was surely the quietest. We slid into the marina in the > cover of darkness, no one the wiser. > > It was Miller Time, so we broke out the Margaritas. > > So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at > other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides > in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat > dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. > > You will forgive me if I do not sign my name to this message. > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: > Important Notice ************************************************* > This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. >

I was thinking this was the one where the Mexican fishermen had to tow you out... you have some good tales sir :-) Bruce Stirling wrote: >I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, >confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that >caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as >some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character >of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! > >Saturday sundown caught us making our way out of the south bay channel >in San Diego. There are several 45 degree turns required to make it >out without incident. As long you pay attention it is no big deal. >However, the combination of twilight, another marooned sailboat on its >beam in the mud about 300 yards away, and the passage of about thirty >days since my last visit, all contributed to my smooth slide to a halt. > >While gazing at four stranded soles sitting high on the beam of a >sailboat, completely laid over on its side in the mud, no keel even >visible, I managed to miss the last channel marker and cut the last >corner in the channel. > >Immediately prior to my mishap, I was also intent on making sure I >waved at every kind of passing boat [another recent topic here]. I >was equally focused on whether they acknowledged my salute with a >return of their own. Never again. I wondered why the entire crew of >the last saluted sailboat was gazing at us with such interest! Their >attention was rewarded with our sudden full stop. No more Mr. Nice >Guy for me. I am not even going to look at another passing boat. You >think they could have shouted/signalled a warning? > >Several boats went by, and not one offered any assistance. So much >for "the code." They didn't even stop long enough for me to invoke >"Parlay!" > >It all happened very quickly. On my last trip I added a bit too much >oil to the fuel mixture. Apparently, filling a gas tank with a small >amount of remaining gas requires more precision when adding oil to the >new combined mix. > >The motor was spitting, sputtering, and barely moving the boat as we >exited the channel. I had already removed and cleaned the plugs, and >even added additional gas to the tank thinking I'd fix the mix. We >headed off for a mere "three hour tour" designed only to work some gas >through the engine. > >As we headed through the channel making all obligatory turns, we >noticed an unfortunate sailor, who grounded his boat in the mud. Not >only ground it, did he, but he was in zero water, laid over on his >side, with at least four persons gazing over the starboard beam. > >I looked around and noticed that in my zeal to hail all comers and >goers, and to check out the other marooned sailors, I cut the corner >off the last jog in the channel. While I thought I was in the middle >of it, it realized I as about 75 yards out of the channel. > >We could not back out of the mud. To keep Debbie's recriminations to >a minimum, I told her it was all her fault. I carefully explained >that had she not climbed up to the bow in front of me, that I would >not have been checking out her lovely figure, thereby causing me to >become disoriented and heading off course. That bought me some time, > and nothing further was said about how the incident occurred. > >We pulled out our handy tide chart to see when to expect the next high >tide. We noticed from the chart we could try to blame others, too. >Our dock mates told us we could sail any where in the bay at night >because it was high tide. Not according to the chart! That was a >couple of months ago . . . must be a "seasonal" thing. I learn >something new from every one of these adventures. I know I learned >about tides somewhere in the 4th or 5th grade. Per the chart, we >could expect high tide at MIDNIGHT. So we settled in for a five hour >wait, hoping to get out of the mud halfway to high tide. > >First, though, I thought I'd jump into the water and see if I could >push us out of the mud. I jumped into warm water. It was above my >hips. The wind was blowing against the freeboard and fighting me. I >managed to suction-cup myself to the bay floor mud a few times. I >then struggled back aboard. [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder.] > >I grabbed the anchor and re-entered the water, hauling the anchor >about 40 feet windward towards the channel. I placed it in the mud, >stood on it, and then made it back to the boat. I struggled again to >get back on the boat [Reminder to self: buy a new ladder], and then >tried to haul on the rode to pull the boat out of the mud. Thought >Hornblower/Bolitho/Aubrey did that once or twice. My Danforth just >came up into my hands. I ran it back out again and decided to settle >in until high tide. Some large powerboat wakes also failed to lift us >off. I thought they were just jamming my rudder further into the mud. > A check of the GPS showed we were not moving. > >It was nice out there in the dark. Tijuana's hillside lights to the >south, the Coronado strand to the west, the Coronado Bridge to the >north, and the lights of Chula Vista and San Diego everywhere else. >Stars appeared overhead, too. We turned on our running lights, >grabbed three flashlights to signal with and to light up the mast if >anyone approached, and settled in [I remembered the discussion online >here about the recent ramming by the power boat]. Debbie suggested it >was margarita time, but I told her we could not consume anything, >expecting a harbor patrol visit sometime soon. She then entertained >herself with a head mounted flashlight, exploring the confines of the >boat like a miner. She soon tired of that and pulled out her laptop >to watch a movie. > >Soon we had cushions on the flush deck, several flashlights, and >Debbie's laptop. We were just getting comfortable and about to watch >Maureen O'Hara's first movie [Jamaica Inn - a story about shipwrecks >and pirates], when a rescue boat arrived and asked if we called for a >rescue. Forwarned of the cost, I said, "no." We asked out of >curiosity, "how much is it?" He said it would cost $175.00. I >promptly told him we would await the high tide. We pointed him in the >direction of the beached boat and told him they were the ones who >probably called. He said they were beyond help, and that they would >have to await the 12:00 noon high tide tomorrow. I know now that all >tides are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Our midnight >high tide was not going to be as high as the 12:00 noon high tide. So >those people were out of luck. They obviously grounded at high tide, >while we did so at low tide. > >As he backed away empty-handed, he said, "Oh well, I'll toss you a bow >line anyway. I can't just leave you here stranded. But you'll have >to give me a nice tip!" I didn't like the sound of that, but I was >going to look really cheap if I turned him down again, so I stood up >to accept the tossed bowline. > >The rudder was previously stuck in the mud, too, and I worried it >might be damaged. As he pulled us out of the mud [it took two >seconds], Debbie checked the rudder again and said it was still stuck >in the same position. Now I thought we really needed a tow all of the >way into the marina. I asked him what it would be to take us to the >marina. He said, $75.00, but you better have cash." Hmmm. . . . $175 >v. $75??? I told him he had a deal. He told us they referred to our >channel as "Golden Pond." > >He lashed our boats together and his big diesel powered us along >nicely. Debbie now wants a bigger motor on the sailboat. I noticed >the rudder appeared to work fine, so about 100 yards from the marina >entrance, I asked to be freed to make a low profile entrance. We >entered under our own power, and no one noticed the vanishing recue >boat in the distant night. As we slowed to enter our slip, the motor >died and we glided in perfectly. Debbie said it was our best docking, >yet. It was surely the quietest. We slid into the marina in the >cover of darkness, no one the wiser. > >It was Miller Time, so we broke out the Margaritas. > >So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at >other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides >in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat >dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. > >You will forgive me if I do not sign my name to this message. > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Marsh Wise Webmaster: -reenactor.Net: http://www.reenactor.net/ -Foresthill.us: http://www.foresthill.us/ -Legio IX Hispana Penna: http://www.reenactor.net/units/legio_ix_penna/ - 17. Luftwaffe Feld-Division <http://www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/> Assistant Webmaster: -VAQ-33 Squadron site: http://www.reenactor.net/vaq-33/ Proud Member (meaning I can just have fun...) -LEGIO IX HISPANA COH III Penna Chapter: http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/ Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze Yahoo Messenger screen name: sturmkatze Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself. ~Mark Twain *Last: Hey Dammit! Have you visited the reenactor.Net FORvMS? If not, WHY NOT? Gett your butt over to: http://www.reenactor.net/forums/index.php right now!

Oh that's for sure. It does make one VERY pro-active about engine maintenance. I don't want that puppy dyin on ME! I'd rather take the money I might spend on towing and use it for improvements. I recently replaced my old glass Racor with a new dual Racor set up. Twin spin-on filter assemblies mounted side by side. Valves easily control which filter is being utilized and I can flip em on the fly if the engine begins to bog down. I can replace and bleed an element while the engine is running on the other filter. Soon I plan to pull the engine and give a good detailing. It runs fine. I just want to keep it that way. I'll do the heat exchanger, belts, check all the wiring for chafe, give it a new impeller, touch up all the little nicks that would like to rust. Make it like a new engine. Check out Cruising World this month. Fatty Goodlanders article on proactive engine maintenance is awesome. That's my insurance. "Downing, Thomas" <Th… [at] ipc.com> wrote: As someone else said, to each his own. I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only one who doesn't have a towing plan from someone - I was starting to feel stupid. But I'm not knocking those who do have such plans, nor commenting on whether one should or shouldn't. One thing about NOT having a plan - it makes me very careful as to maintenance, navigation, etc. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars due to something like that. Hmm...maybe I should get a plan. Nah, so far so good, haven't needed one, knock teak. On the other hand.... -----Original Message----- From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of steve honour Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:45 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim ladder. Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it out. ~smile~ SMon CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and me. We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to make it home on sail. All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 PM. I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just wouldn't let me advance. I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. The moral/vent of the story is… I understand that everyone has to make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup motor for that money. --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

My engine is still pretty pristine and dry. I also have a dual fuel filter setup with vacuum gauge. Another mod was adding a remote oil filter and change pump. The bulkhead mounted filter allows the use of a larger filter. One thing I was considering before setting off to cruise Labrador was looking into an electrically powered standby raw water and coolant pump. With that and the second diesel tank, the most common reasons for engine failure are all covered. For coastal cruising this will often allow waiting to repair till a sheltered location has been reached. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of steve honour Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:15 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) Oh that's for sure. It does make one VERY pro-active about engine maintenance. I don't want that puppy dyin on ME! I'd rather take the money I might spend on towing and use it for improvements. I recently replaced my old glass Racor with a new dual Racor set up. Twin spin-on filter assemblies mounted side by side. Valves easily control which filter is being utilized and I can flip em on the fly if the engine begins to bog down. I can replace and bleed an element while the engine is running on the other filter. Soon I plan to pull the engine and give a good detailing. It runs fine. I just want to keep it that way. I'll do the heat exchanger, belts, check all the wiring for chafe, give it a new impeller, touch up all the little nicks that would like to rust. Make it like a new engine. Check out Cruising World this month. Fatty Goodlanders article on proactive engine maintenance is awesome. That's my insurance. "Downing, Thomas" <Th… [at] ipc.com> wrote: As someone else said, to each his own. I'm relieved to find out I'm not the only one who doesn't have a towing plan from someone - I was starting to feel stupid. But I'm not knocking those who do have such plans, nor commenting on whether one should or shouldn't. One thing about NOT having a plan - it makes me very careful as to maintenance, navigation, etc. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars due to something like that. Hmm...maybe I should get a plan. Nah, so far so good, haven't needed one, knock teak. On the other hand.... From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of steve honour Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:45 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) $225 an hour in SoCal sounds like a good deal to me. Everything is so expensive out there. Those guys have to maintain a boat, a dock, insurance and employees. Then they have to be ready and waiting. They don't get constant income. Most of the week they are probably making nothing. Seems easy to understand how come it's $225 an hour to come pluck a weekend warrior back home so's he can make his dinner date or whatever. Personally I don't pay it. I don't carry towing insurance and I don't even consider that I would ever use one. Most of the world has no service available. It's an American luxury. I learned to work on my engine and I carry parts. Carry plenty of anchors and bide your time, if the engine won't run, sooner or later, conditions will allow you to sail home. Kindness of fellow boaters will usually help with tight docking situations. A push here, a short tow there, boathooks and hand-over-hand down the pilings will get it done. I have even inflated my dinghy and used the dinghy to tow the mother ship. A hip-tow works well for that. (dink "rafted" near the cockpit.) Here's a good thought: Create a portable bracket so you can use the dink motor on the stern of the big boat. Maybe something that fits on the swim ladder. Tow Insurance is reasonably priced but I would rather be self sufficient. Even the insurance only covers up to a point. If you are further away than the coverage, you must pay the extra $$$. I say no thanks. I'll work it out. ~smile~ SMon CC <cx… [at] gmail.com> wrote: What was shaping out to be a perfect day on the ocean turned into a minor headache and a major sunstroke for my son, my girlfriend and me. We were heading back on the LA channel and right about where the Lane Victory is; I get a call, answer and lower the RPMs on my Nissan outboard. By the time I finished the call the motor had stopped. It wasn't that warm. So I pull on the starter and nothing I pulled again and this time I have the handle and the rope. In that moment I hear the loudest horn, which meant that the container ship that just turned at the east basin was heading right to me. I get immediately on the VHF called the coast guard and they helped me. So there I was a mile from the dock, minimal wind and no motor. I tried to do the sailor thing and sail in. I called the dock master to see if he had a more convenient slip than mine, which if you don't have a motor there is no way you're docking. He told me about one right on the entrance. I called Vessel Assist; the operator was nice and helpful. The local guy called me immediately; I was surprised by all the attention and efficiency. My surprise was short lived. After he told me his rate I was shocked. $225 per hour and they start the clock when they leave their dock which apparently is in the farthest corner of the harbor. So the question was pay over $500 or try to make it home on sail. All this happened around 3 PM, so long story short I docked around 6 PM. I sailed/scuttled a lot of the way but as I approached the Cerritos channel I gave up. I think there is a current there that just wouldn't let me advance. I hailed down another sailor and asked him to tow me. As it turned out he is my neighbor from 4 slips down. He's name is Ed and is as nice as they come; he towed me almost to the temporary slip. The moral/vent of the story is... I understand that everyone has to make a living but $225 an hour? I'm sure that I can find a backup motor for that money. _____ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48246/*http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5cDF2bXZzBF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDZ3JlZW4tY2VudGVy> the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. _____ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48248/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz> activities for kids. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Ha! Great story. Gotta laugh because I've already paid all those dues. Not that I won't have to re-live them again some day. Well some of them, anyway, I'm sure. Yep been there, done all of that. Great idea taking the anchor out and winching on it. Sometimes that works. Next time consider putting a block on the anchor line and hoisting it up the rig. If you can pull from the mast-head, you might heel over and come free. Also shift ballast and swing the boom out. Some swept back fin keel boats draw less with the weight forward so putting all the passengers on the bow can also help. Try that first since it's easy and the difference in draft is minimal. It would only work right when you go aground. One time I put the spinnaker up sideways from bow to stern with no pole when I realized the wind was blowing toward the deep water. Worked like a charm. That was before vessel assist even existed. There's a lot of good experience in your trip. You are wiser now. But don't expect it to prevent a re-currence. Experience simply gives us the ability to recognize our mistakes a little quicker the second time around. Boating is a luxury. Insurance is, too. Perfect for local trips and schedules. I'll put my money and effort into boat prep and learning to avoid pitfalls. 'Course having a few tricks up your sleeve never hurts either. Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> wrote: I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! <snip> So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. <snip> ... And don't forget that new ladder! Also, a life jacket can be used to float a big anchor out to deep water. ~smile~ SMon --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

steve honour wrote: > Oh that's for sure. It does make one VERY pro-active about engine > maintenance. I don't want that puppy dyin on ME! I'd rather take the > money I might spend on towing and use it for improvements. > All readers of my reply should bear in mind that I have done my share of very dumb things and have encountered my share of random mechanical-device contrariness. And I realize that some people sail in locations that present special challenges in terms of access to marinas & slips (in busy locations with adverse currents, etc.). That said, I like Steve's position because it's in the old tradition of seafaring, which is to say, it assumes that you have to take care of yourself. It's too easy to be lax in safety & maintenance & piloting when you can just call for help. I think of the news item from a couple years ago here. A couple guys had decided to do some winter camping, spending a week or so in the woods. They headed off down the trail and it began to snow. It snowed more than they anticipated and they got on the cell phone and called for rescue. The sheriff's department sent snowmobiles out to rescue them. But wait...these were guys who had prepared for being in the woods for a week. Surely they had food, and tents, and sleeping bags. They could have just waited a day or two or even four or five or six days and walked back out. But that cell phone tempted them and instead of dealing with adversity, they called for rescue. My other boat lies over a mile up a dredged channel in a river. Depending on the wind, I have to power in or about another mile in a dredged channel in a shallow bay. In 40 seasons of sailing there, I've been towed in twice, and never more than the last 1/2 mile or so. And for 35 of those seasons, it was with a 1965 outboard motor. I suspect that there's a large component of good luck lurking here, and that much of the luck protected me from the natural consequences of my own neglect that I had not observed. And maybe I'm a bit more stubborn and reluctant to seek aid. But still, folks, listen to Steve's advice: the best insurance is being prepared. Chris Campbell

Downing, Thomas wrote: > > > > Another mod was adding a remote oil filter and change pump. The > bulkhead mounted filter allows the use of a larger filter. Extra plumbing on lube-oil systems always makes me a bit nervous. There's the possibility that something may come adrift and you could lose oil and pressure at a bad time. Was this something you weighed in making your decisions? Chris Campbell >

Good tips, steve. One that I believe in is to try to always keep a sense of what direction the deep water is, and then to immediately (if safe) turn that way if you feel the keel start to touch. A couple of times (up the sac delta, where a cal 39 really doesn't belong!), I've found that I could get off if I rocked the boat with the motor, light forward alternated with strong reverse. Got me off after several long pulses of reverse did nothing. This was in mud and I think the rocking helped break the suction. If you don't get off right away, it pays to settle down and think for 5 minutes. Even if the tide is falling it isn't going to make that much difference. You want the first thing you try to have the best chance of success. So pop a beer and take a couple swigs, laugh about it, and then decide on something to try. bw On 9/5/07, steve honour <st… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > Ha! Great story. Gotta laugh because I've already paid all those dues. > Not that I won't have to re-live them again some day. Well some of them, > anyway, I'm sure. Yep been there, done all of that. Great idea taking the > anchor out and winching on it. Sometimes that works. Next time consider > putting a block on the anchor line and hoisting it up the rig. If you can > pull from the mast-head, you might heel over and come free. Also shift > ballast and swing the boom out. Some swept back fin keel boats draw less > with the weight forward so putting all the passengers on the bow can also > help. Try that first since it's easy and the difference in draft is > minimal. It would only work right when you go aground. One time I put the > spinnaker up sideways from bow to stern with no pole when I realized the > wind was blowing toward the deep water. Worked like a charm. That was > before vessel assist even existed. > > There's a lot of good experience in your trip. You are wiser now. But > don't expect it to prevent a re-currence. Experience simply gives us the > ability to recognize our mistakes a little quicker the second time around. > > Boating is a luxury. Insurance is, too. Perfect for local trips and > schedules. I'll put my money and effort into boat prep and learning to > avoid pitfalls. 'Course having a few tricks up your sleeve never hurts > either. > > > * Bruce Stirling <br… [at] stirlinglaw.com> > *wrote: > I resemble these remarks. I delayed paying for the tow package, > confident I would never make the foolish mistakes that > caused me to become aware of their existence. I also believed, as > some commented here, that I might rely a little on the good character > of my fellow sailors and boaters. NOT! > > <snip> > > So no more gazing around while in the channel. No more waving at > other boats. No more bad gas mixtures. No more guessing at the tides > in the bay (I judged by the angle of the ramp leading to the boat > dock). And I will break down and get the full tow package, too. > > <snip> > > ... > > And don't forget that new ladder! Also, a life jacket can be used to > float a big anchor out to deep water. > > ~smile~ > > SMon > > ------------------------------ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48252/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC>, > not web links. > >

I thought sharing my experiences would help others who had yet to live through my kind of mistakes. The recurrences, as another pointed out, already happened, I am sorry to report. Maybe other newbies will be spared. Upon my return home, I discovered three large shoulder bruises from my sustained attack on the hull while in the water. I could have used the tip about the life jacket on the anchor. Once I reached shoulder depth, the wind and water effectively stopped me from hauling the anchor out further from the boat. My ladder conformed to the hull of the boat. Consequently, I was almost climbing into the boat with my back parallel to the water. At least, so it seemed. Inverted. Maybe a simple 4 x 4 lashed to the bottom rung will keep it far enough from the hull to make a big difference. When I realized the rudder was stuck, too, we all went to the flush deck bow to hang out. I thought it might prevent any additional harm to the rudder. The experiences are firmly rooted in my mind. I may run aground in strange waters, but it should never again happen in home waters. I really need to install the depth finder I bought six months ago.

ok,i guess i've perused it all now....... and there are obviously two sides here; the "old- school" .......led by Steve, with a very few other old-salts. who, speak for "Tradition". and the more shall we say, pragmatic folks (and i hope you understand how i have used that word). people who are on, or have benefited from; a learning curve that basically points to "time" being worth more than a "X" amount of money. X= a sum calculated by the local towing association, and averaged over the number of people said association believes will sign-up for towing insurance in a year. vrses-the "all-inclusive" costs of operating said towing service over that one year time period. some here have said; "To each their own"........ but while i do feel people have diverse needs and priorities. i don't quit go the way of; to each their own. for one, i think each group can learn things from the other. i know from my Sister who is a very responsible boat owner, and who is also retired; that some very good people can't puzzle out some of the simplest things that can and do happen on the best maintained boats. my Sister's Engineering Degree notwithstanding. although it does give a big leg-up in understanding what i am doing if She is looking over my shoulder while i work on it. because of this, the only spear parts on Her boat are a hand full of fuse's. but all of this makes a good point. "fiver" is the best part Karen's (my Sister) boat insurance. Her insurance package just comes with a few more perks then most do; like fly-away pier-side repair service. and yes, i have driven as far as 70 miles i think, to some obscure damn anchorage just to get Her motor started. however, Karen does indeed have "other" more typical insurance on Her boat. She would just rather bother fiver i think. on the other hand, it always freaks Karen's Hubby out that He knows zip about the boat when He's been boating all His life (so i've told) on the Sound. and fiver just looks at the thing and turns something, and it starts up. Ok, so everyone knows there are gremlins that inhabit engines and electrical systems. and the little baby ones that live in your marine electronics are especially snotty buggers! and no buddy knows just when "Your" system is going to be over-come and give-up the ghost, so-to-speak...... it takes years to become a "Trained" and "Experienced" gremlin hunter. as a recreational boater, you should not be disappointed in your self, that these invisible little creacher's should get out of hand once in a while, and start munching on your boat's system's.......... :)(: now as Sailors one and All; i bet that not one of you would ever call for a tow if you snapped a sheet, or lost a halyard. or maybe your main port wench (new self-tailing Harken 3-speed) was pulled right out of the deck when your 150 genoa suddenly powered-up as you unexpectedly shifted your rudder to avoid running down a mother goose and her brood hatchlings crossing the channel (the little-lady said her finger- nails kept her from putting the nuts on, only after she saw it unwind & drop from the sheet "crplunk"). or what if you bent your boom while off-shore. no, some of these things may give the hearty, pause to ponder for a few moments. but i don't think any of you would call for a tow (except for the jib-less Lazer-driver). i believe that any of you would find some spare line onboard, or even cut into your anchor road. you would cannibalize what ever blocks you needed; tie the main- sheet back to the port and stbd cleats if need-be. but you would sail your boat home come hell or high water. as sailors, that is just what you do, isn't it? well honestly, getting stuck in the mud isn't much different, if you were well experienced in such things. and there really are people like that (who have the experience). just as there are people who seem to be able to get an engine going no matter what. or figure out an electrical system no matter how complex; or what sort of problem is plaguing it. or even get your electronics to work right (that's the easiest one). talking in this Group, and listening to what everyone has to say. looking at the content; even though you may not have the skill to do it today, does not mean that you won't have some of that skill some day. reading everything here, i have come to know that having an in- board diesel is not the end-all be-all that i once thought it to be. but knowing too, that an out-board wasn't the answer either; i have now decided on two electric start, remote shifting out-boards. something i never would have thought of before. and then in reading of my Fellow Cal-28 Owner's grounding in San Diego; i am now thinking about what would happen should i pile BB- 54 up on rocks considering her 1.75" rudder shaft. it's something i could change with little trouble when i move the shaft-log....... and if i rip-out the belly-pan for work inside the keel, what about added laminations to high-stress areas? that would be so very easily done at that point. the one thing i do know is this; this girl can not afford, and will never have, insurance on BB-54. hell, it could possible take me two more years to acquire the $4000 to $5000 it will take me to build a big enough shop for the over-hall....... fiver

There are tons of situations where things go wrong that don't require a tow. As long as either of your two propulsion systems are working (sails or motor) then you hve nothing to fear. So far while racing, I've gone aground, broken my boom - twice, lost the backstay tensioner, snapped a jib sheet, lost three winch handles overboard, had my cockpit drains shatter and slam up through the cockpit sole (hit a 6' + wave nose first after dark) cracked a transverse bulkhead under the cockpit..... None of these have ever required a tow. I have towing coverage, but I always managed to finish the race and always managed to cobble her together enought to make it home under my own power. Some day, I may not be so luckly, hence the towing coverage. Cheers, Scott S. ----- Original Message ----- From: slickbutfoxbuger To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Good friends & pirates (insurance) fiver's 2 cense..... ok,i guess i've perused it all now....... and there are obviously two sides here; the "old- school" .......led by Steve, with a very few other old-salts. who, speak for "Tradition". and the more shall we say, pragmatic folks (and i hope you understand how i have used that word). people who are on, or have benefited from; a learning curve that basically points to "time" being worth more than a "X" amount of money. X= a sum calculated by the local towing association, and averaged over the number of people said association believes will sign-up for towing insurance in a year. vrses-the "all-inclusive" costs of operating said towing service over that one year time period. some here have said; "To each their own"........ but while i do feel people have diverse needs and priorities. i don't quit go the way of; to each their own. for one, i think each group can learn things from the other. i know from my Sister who is a very responsible boat owner, and who is also retired; that some very good people can't puzzle out some of the simplest things that can and do happen on the best maintained boats. my Sister's Engineering Degree notwithstanding. although it does give a big leg-up in understanding what i am doing if She is looking over my shoulder while i work on it. because of this, the only spear parts on Her boat are a hand full of fuse's. but all of this makes a good point. "fiver" is the best part Karen's (my Sister) boat insurance. Her insurance package just comes with a few more perks then most do; like fly-away pier-side repair service. and yes, i have driven as far as 70 miles i think, to some obscure damn anchorage just to get Her motor started. however, Karen does indeed have "other" more typical insurance on Her boat. She would just rather bother fiver i think. on the other hand, it always freaks Karen's Hubby out that He knows zip about the boat when He's been boating all His life (so i've told) on the Sound. and fiver just looks at the thing and turns something, and it starts up. Ok, so everyone knows there are gremlins that inhabit engines and electrical systems. and the little baby ones that live in your marine electronics are especially snotty buggers! and no buddy knows just when "Your" system is going to be over-come and give-up the ghost, so-to-speak...... it takes years to become a "Trained" and "Experienced" gremlin hunter. as a recreational boater, you should not be disappointed in your self, that these invisible little creacher's should get out of hand once in a while, and start munching on your boat's system's.......... :)(: now as Sailors one and All; i bet that not one of you would ever call for a tow if you snapped a sheet, or lost a halyard. or maybe your main port wench (new self-tailing Harken 3-speed) was pulled right out of the deck when your 150 genoa suddenly powered-up as you unexpectedly shifted your rudder to avoid running down a mother goose and her brood hatchlings crossing the channel (the little-lady said her finger- nails kept her from putting the nuts on, only after she saw it unwind & drop from the sheet "crplunk"). or what if you bent your boom while off-shore. no, some of these things may give the hearty, pause to ponder for a few moments. but i don't think any of you would call for a tow (except for the jib-less Lazer-driver). i believe that any of you would find some spare line onboard, or even cut into your anchor road. you would cannibalize what ever blocks you needed; tie the main- sheet back to the port and stbd cleats if need-be. but you would sail your boat home come hell or high water. as sailors, that is just what you do, isn't it? well honestly, getting stuck in the mud isn't much different, if you were well experienced in such things. and there really are people like that (who have the experience). just as there are people who seem to be able to get an engine going no matter what. or figure out an electrical system no matter how complex; or what sort of problem is plaguing it. or even get your electronics to work right (that's the easiest one). talking in this Group, and listening to what everyone has to say. looking at the content; even though you may not have the skill to do it today, does not mean that you won't have some of that skill some day. reading everything here, i have come to know that having an in- board diesel is not the end-all be-all that i once thought it to be. but knowing too, that an out-board wasn't the answer either; i have now decided on two electric start, remote shifting out-boards. something i never would have thought of before. and then in reading of my Fellow Cal-28 Owner's grounding in San Diego; i am now thinking about what would happen should i pile BB- 54 up on rocks considering her 1.75" rudder shaft. it's something i could change with little trouble when i move the shaft-log....... and if i rip-out the belly-pan for work inside the keel, what about added laminations to high-stress areas? that would be so very easily done at that point. the one thing i do know is this; this girl can not afford, and will never have, insurance on BB-54. hell, it could possible take me two more years to acquire the $4000 to $5000 it will take me to build a big enough shop for the over-hall....... fiver

Not much. Every big boat I have ever delivered/run has this setup. All of our busses did to. If the correct fasteners are used and the hose is correctly secured and supported the risk is negligable. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:57 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Good friends and pirates (vessel assist) Downing, Thomas wrote: Another mod was adding a remote oil filter and change pump. The bulkhead mounted filter allows the use of a larger filter. Extra plumbing on lube-oil systems always makes me a bit nervous. There's the possibility that something may come adrift and you could lose oil and pressure at a bad time. Was this something you weighed in making your decisions? Chris Campbell DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Good post fiver. On the topic of self reliance, in the last 3 weeks two boats have been dismasted near my marina. The first was a visiting 2 year old Catalina 48. The starboard upper shroud failed at the masthead swage. No one hurt, no damage to hull other than cosmetic. The mast bent about 10 feet above the deck and came to rest trailing over the port quarter. The rudder and prop were not fouled. They had no cable cutters or spare lines to secure anything, nor did they think of using other lines. They were 2 miles from the channel entrance. They called for a tow. Okay, that was their choice. Last week a older Morgan (30?) lost it's mast. The single handed sailor secured the mast along the boat, cut free the sails in the water and pulled them aboard, the motored home. While motoring, he considered how to rig the boom as a jury mast if needed. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of slickbutfoxbuger Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:47 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Good friends & pirates (insurance) fiver's 2 cense..... ok,i guess i've perused it all now....... and there are obviously two sides here; the "old- school" .......led by Steve, with a very few other old-salts. who, speak for "Tradition". and the more shall we say, pragmatic folks (and i hope you understand how i have used that word). people who are on, or have benefited from; a learning curve that basically points to "time" being worth more than a "X" amount of money. X= a sum calculated by the local towing association, and averaged over the number of people said association believes will sign-up for towing insurance in a year. vrses-the "all-inclusive" costs of operating said towing service over that one year time period. some here have said; "To each their own"........ but while i do feel people have diverse needs and priorities. i don't quit go the way of; to each their own. for one, i think each group can learn things from the other. i know from my Sister who is a very responsible boat owner, and who is also retired; that some very good people can't puzzle out some of the simplest things that can and do happen on the best maintained boats. my Sister's Engineering Degree notwithstanding. although it does give a big leg-up in understanding what i am doing if She is looking over my shoulder while i work on it. because of this, the only spear parts on Her boat are a hand full of fuse's. but all of this makes a good point. "fiver" is the best part Karen's (my Sister) boat insurance. Her insurance package just comes with a few more perks then most do; like fly-away pier-side repair service. and yes, i have driven as far as 70 miles i think, to some obscure damn anchorage just to get Her motor started. however, Karen does indeed have "other" more typical insurance on Her boat. She would just rather bother fiver i think. on the other hand, it always freaks Karen's Hubby out that He knows zip about the boat when He's been boating all His life (so i've told) on the Sound. and fiver just looks at the thing and turns something, and it starts up. Ok, so everyone knows there are gremlins that inhabit engines and electrical systems. and the little baby ones that live in your marine electronics are especially snotty buggers! and no buddy knows just when "Your" system is going to be over-come and give-up the ghost, so-to-speak...... it takes years to become a "Trained" and "Experienced" gremlin hunter. as a recreational boater, you should not be disappointed in your self, that these invisible little creacher's should get out of hand once in a while, and start munching on your boat's system's.......... :)(: now as Sailors one and All; i bet that not one of you would ever call for a tow if you snapped a sheet, or lost a halyard. or maybe your main port wench (new self-tailing Harken 3-speed) was pulled right out of the deck when your 150 genoa suddenly powered-up as you unexpectedly shifted your rudder to avoid running down a mother goose and her brood hatchlings crossing the channel (the little-lady said her finger- nails kept her from putting the nuts on, only after she saw it unwind & drop from the sheet "crplunk"). or what if you bent your boom while off-shore. no, some of these things may give the hearty, pause to ponder for a few moments. but i don't think any of you would call for a tow (except for the jib-less Lazer-driver). i believe that any of you would find some spare line onboard, or even cut into your anchor road. you would cannibalize what ever blocks you needed; tie the main- sheet back to the port and stbd cleats if need-be. but you would sail your boat home come hell or high water. as sailors, that is just what you do, isn't it? well honestly, getting stuck in the mud isn't much different, if you were well experienced in such things. and there really are people like that (who have the experience). just as there are people who seem to be able to get an engine going no matter what. or figure out an electrical system no matter how complex; or what sort of problem is plaguing it. or even get your electronics to work right (that's the easiest one). talking in this Group, and listening to what everyone has to say. looking at the content; even though you may not have the skill to do it today, does not mean that you won't have some of that skill some day. reading everything here, i have come to know that having an in- board diesel is not the end-all be-all that i once thought it to be. but knowing too, that an out-board wasn't the answer either; i have now decided on two electric start, remote shifting out-boards. something i never would have thought of before. and then in reading of my Fellow Cal-28 Owner's grounding in San Diego; i am now thinking about what would happen should i pile BB- 54 up on rocks considering her 1.75" rudder shaft. it's something i could change with little trouble when i move the shaft-log....... and if i rip-out the belly-pan for work inside the keel, what about added laminations to high-stress areas? that would be so very easily done at that point. the one thing i do know is this; this girl can not afford, and will never have, insurance on BB-54. hell, it could possible take me two more years to acquire the $4000 to $5000 it will take me to build a big enough shop for the over-hall....... fiver DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Fiver, I am glad my mishaps are providing you with research data needed to make your BB-54 "bullet-proof." I will, undoubtedly, continue to provide you additional data. Bruce

re: Fiver flaunting her flair for flavourful fits of misfortunes and unforseen future fumblings... A most entertaining read. Well written. ahem. I would like to note that much of my knowledge of how to dislodge a persnickety sailboat keel from the bottom has been arrived at through careful study of such sad situations often given that I had no option of calling for a tow as this entire phenomenon of hiring a towboat is mostly a recent developement in the arena of pleasure yachting. I say recent and instantly give away my age because I think it has actually been around for plenty of time but I have mostly been ignoring it. Perhaps it has been nearly two decades since this new luxury became available in most regions? The point being, that I have spent hours contemplating how to get free and in the worst cases, knowing that all the tow boats in the world could not refloat humpty dumpty, simply accepted it and tried to make the best of the situation. At some point (and quite a gray area to decide just when) there is no getting free. When you are fighting mother nature and she is determined to win, you have no chance, no matter how fat your wallet is and how many times you urge the tow boat to try again. Yes, I have slept on the wall. ... I remember one time (out of so, so many) that I awoke in the ten thousand islands after a wonderful night of sleep. It was a beautiful dawn and I decided not to wake my sleeping lady but that it would be nice to catch the last of the 'night wind of the east' and make a few miles up the coast. So I eased up the sails and the anchor to quietly slip out of the remote anchorage I had selected. It was a skinny spot, for sure, and we the only boat there, but isolated and serene was just for us. Well, by the time I got back to the cockpit (and let me just say that nobody sleeps thru and anchor being hauled if they are in the V-berth, so I blew that whole idea of letting sleeping beauty slumber on) the boat had drifted in the outgoing tide across a bit of a sand bar. Not realizing the urgency, I simply sheeted things in and tried to heel a bit to sail off. Not happening. Then I started the engine to force my way off. Not happening either. That boat had a bulb keel which possessed an affinity for sand. What I was unaware of was that this was the morning of the spring tide. The outgoing tide was magnificent, strong and quite unrelenting. The boat only drew 3.5 and the tide dropped just as much before it was all over. And it began so quickly! As luck would have it, I grounded near the high. It would be 7 hours before we were under way again. The breeze died. We sat on our side while fishermen came by to enjoy the amusement. You could walk all the way around the boat and never go more than ankle deep. I pretended to be working on the bottom as if I had planned the whole thing but I don't think it worked for a minute. I took the dink and a fishin rod and explored the area. If you can't beat em, join em. She read a book wedged into the side of the cockpit with some cushions. Later, when the Gulf of Mexico and the wind came back to join us, we made some progress up the coast. I think we covered all of 12 miles that day. I used the money which might have been spent on a tow (if one existed and could have reached us in time -- very doubtful) to pay for a night in a marina. A little splurging helped the situation but, of course, demerits are never erased. We are happily divorced, now. Stories? I've got em. I don't have any grandchildren but I could tell you about any one of the six times I've been dismasted. Some other time. And never took a tow for a single one of them. But the good thing about screwing up is that you find out what your limits are. It may take repeated lessons, but you do learn stuff. How well you learn it depends on how thick your head is, I guess. Going without towing insurance is not for everyone. And neither is long distance voyaging on a sailboat. ahem. ~smile~ SMon --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

steve honour wrote: > this entire phenomenon of hiring a towboat is mostly a recent > developement in the arena of pleasure yachting. I say recent and > instantly give away my age because I think it has actually been around > for plenty of time but I have mostly been ignoring it. Perhaps it > has been nearly two decades since this new luxury became available in > most regions? I think it coincided with the change in Coast Guard policy. When I was younger, they'd go out and tow you in. Then they stopped towing and began calling for assistance for you--to friends, any listening boater, or the tow service. As I recall, now they only come out if there's a question of safety of life. Otherwise, get out your credit card unless the boat next to you will come out and effect the rescue. > > > ... > > I remember one time (out of so, so many) that I awoke in the ten > thousand islands after a wonderful night of sleep. It was a beautiful > dawn and I decided not to wake my sleeping lady but that it would be > nice to catch the last of the 'night wind of the east' and make a few > miles up the coast. > As luck would have it, I grounded near the high. It would be 7 hours > before we were under way again. The breeze died. We sat on our side > while fishermen came by to enjoy the amusement. > Great tale. > Stories? I've got em. I don't have any grandchildren but I could > tell you about any one of the six times I've been dismasted. Thanks for the warning--I won't invite you to go sailing on my boats unless you've broken that habit. Chris Campbell

Yo, Bruce.... if i build her a whole new rudder; i had it in mind to give you her old one as a spare. this as it's shaft will then no longer fit the new bearing size. you would have a whole extra shebang that way...... :)(: PS. i really like your stories. it's just like being there....... PSS. great idea! get a very small-cheap plastic blow-up boat of some sort. one of those give-a-way cheap electric out-boards. make it *RC* steering, and put the anchor in the boat, trailing the road astern. then just send it out 2 or 300 yards astern the next time you end-up grounded....... Oh, and bring a BB-gun :)(: ********************************* --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Stirling" <bruce@...> wrote: > > Fiver, > > I am glad my mishaps are providing you with research data needed to make > your BB-54 "bullet-proof." I will, undoubtedly, continue to provide you > additional data. > > Bruce >

i don't know where you get that stuff, Steve, but that is the best i have ever read....... fiver **************************** --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, steve honour <stevehonoursail@...> wrote: > > re: > > Fiver flaunting her flair for flavourful fits of misfortunes and unforseen future fumblings... > > A most entertaining read. Well written. > > ahem.