Cal 39 Rudder Integrity

Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Cal 39 rudders?? I have heard that they are a potential weak point on this boat, Lapworth design anyway, but I do not know what the exact issue is.? Is it a design flaw or a construction issue?? If it is a construction issue is it random or on all boats built at a certain location or around a specific time frame? I am looking at an '80 MKII that lost it's rudder in a Bermuda when it was only 4 years old.? In the owner's words, the boat was?"power-reaching in 20+ knots with eight aboard and full sail. The rudder broke along the plane of the top of the full chord." It doesn't help that I?am not well versed in the technical jargon of rudder construction, so I cannot picture in my mind where it broke exactly. If somone can explain that to me in simpler terms that would be helpful as well. Thanks again for all your help thus far, Paul West Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

Paul, There was some discussion of Cal39 rudders this year at CALTOPIA. The main topic was not the ruder itself but inadequate bracing of the fiberglass rudder tube inside the hull. Mike Serpan described how he beefed up the bracing on Sea Otter (Cal 2-39 #12) before leaving on an extend south Pacific cruise. He did bounce the rudder on a reef on at least one occasion without serious damage. The type of problem you describe sounds like a corrosion issue where water must have entered the rudder and caused the weld between the tube and the flat bracing (armature), that the foam and fiberglass is built up around, to fail. However; 4 years seems too short for corrosion to be the culprit. Perhaps the owner had bounced it on a reef. Someone (I think it was Mike also) described opening up his rudder expecting to find corrosion issues but all parts and welds were shiny metal. So he closed it up again. Mike also suggested plugging up the top of rudder tube to keep sea water from getting inside the rudder from above. Sea otter's cockpit filled with green water more than once on his cruise. I assume that the owner replaced the rudder on boat in question . It's worth inspecting. I would look for cracks in the fiberglass, rust, and other outward signs of a problem. Perhaps a moisture meter reading could be done. Some people on this board have suggested replacement rudders with a carbon fiber tubes -- nothing to corrode. Foss Foam was also mentioned as a good source for Cal rudders. I've never done more than look over the exterior of my rudder. Perhaps I should be a little more attentive. Regards, Duane Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA At 09:29 AM 11/13/2007, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Cal 39 rudders? I have >heard that they are a potential weak point on this boat, Lapworth >design anyway, but I do not know what the exact issue is. Is it a >design flaw or a construction issue? If it is a construction issue >is it random or on all boats built at a certain location or around a >specific time frame? > >I am looking at an '80 MKII that lost it's rudder in a Bermuda when >it was only 4 years old. In the owner's words, the boat was >"power-reaching in 20+ knots with eight aboard and full sail. The >rudder broke along the plane of the top of the full chord." > >It doesn't help that I am not well versed in the technical jargon of >rudder construction, so I cannot picture in my mind where it broke >exactly. If somone can explain that to me in simpler terms that >would be helpful as well. > >Thanks again for all your help thus far, > >Paul West > >---------- >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free ><http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>AOL >Mail! > Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA

Duane - Thanks for the info.? I'll have to research rudder construction to see if I can picture how the rudder broke. He had it repaired in Bermuda and that one was still on the boat until 2006. He had it surveyed and noted there was some moisture and rust around the post so he had another one built just to be safe.? I'm guessing since the repair lasted 22 years it is not a design issue so much as a construction issue ie: maybe the workers were hung over that day.? They used to say you didn't want a car built on a Friday or a Monday due to workers attitudes on those days so maybe it was a similar issue. If you stumble onto any more info, please send it along. Thanks - Paul West From: Duane Knize <DU… [at] saic.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39 Rudder Integrity Paul, There was some discussion of Cal39 rudders this year at CALTOPIA. The main topic was not the ruder itself but inadequate bracing of the fiberglass rudder tube inside the hull. Mike Serpan described how he beefed up the bracing on Sea Otter (Cal 2-39 #12) before leaving on an extend south Pacific cruise. He did bounce the rudder on a reef on at least one occasion without serious damage. The type of problem you describe sounds like a corrosion issue where water must have entered the rudder and caused the weld between the tube and the flat bracing (armature), that the foam and fiberglass is built up around, to fail. However; 4 years seems too short for corrosion to be the culprit. Perhaps the owner had bounced it on a reef. Someone (I think it was Mike also) described opening up his rudder expecting to find corrosion issues but all parts and welds were shiny metal. So he closed it up again. Mike also suggested plugging up the top of rudder tube to keep sea water from getting inside the rudder from above.? Sea otter's cockpit filled with green water more than once on his cruise. I assume that the owner replaced the rudder on boat in question . It's worth inspecting. I would look for cracks in the fiberglass, rust, and other outward signs of a problem. Perhaps a moisture meter reading could be done. Some people on this board have suggested replacement rudders with a carbon fiber tubes -- nothing to corrode. Foss Foam was also mentioned as a good source for Cal rudders. I've never done more than look over the exterior of my rudder. Perhaps I should be a little more attentive. Regards, Duane Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA ? At 09:29 AM 11/13/2007, you wrote: Can anyone tell me what the issue is with Cal 39 rudders?? I have heard that they are a potential weak point on this boat, Lapworth design anyway, but I do not know what the exact issue is.? Is it a design flaw or a construction issue?? If it is a construction issue is it random or on all boats built at a certain location or around a specific time frame? I am looking at an '80 MKII that lost it's rudder in a Bermuda when it was only 4 years old.? In the owner's words, the boat was "power-reaching in 20+ knots with eight aboard and full sail. The rudder broke along the plane of the top of the full chord." It doesn't help that I am not well versed in the technical jargon of rudder construction, so I cannot picture in my mind where it broke exactly. If somone can explain that to me in simpler terms that would be helpful as well. Thanks again for all your help thus far, Paul West Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! Duane & Lynn Knize Marlyn, 1978 Cal 2-39, #18 Berthed: Emeryville, CA Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com