Sail Trim

Fin, nailed most of what I meant to say. Just a few adds. Two sails can have the same LP, but have totally different clew heights. For racing we get "deck sweeper" #2s and #3s. These require additional jib track farther forward for proper sheeting angle (except some reaching sails for racing that Mike described - like the Jib Top.) For cruising, you'd want you smaller sails to have higher and higher clews so that they sheet back to approximately the same location. I've attached a picture. I believe the term "lapper" originates with a sail that does over"lap" the mast by a little - say a 110 or 120 percent sail. Am I correct? Cheers chalie

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Fin, nailed most of what I meant to say. Just a few adds. > > Two sails can have the same LP, but have totally different clew heights. > For racing we get "deck sweeper" #2s and #3s. These require additional > jib track farther forward for proper sheeting angle (except some > reaching sails for racing that Mike described - like the Jib Top.) I agree. Fin is the expert when it comes to racing. I didn't think the person asking was likely to be beating to weather in that Cal 28 anytime soon. We have a high clew 120% jib on the roller furler for going back and forth to Catalina. I'm too old to enjoy beating over there close hauled in a breeze. I used to do that sitting on the rail or driving and I've passed that course. I go to weather under power unless it's an unusual situation. I might add a #3 and a forward inboard track if we do any class racing. That's in the future. > For cruising, you'd want you smaller sails to have higher and higher > clews so that they sheet back to approximately the same location. I've > attached a picture. > > I believe the term "lapper" originates with a sail that does over"lap" > the mast by a little - say a 110 or 120 percent sail. Am I correct? That's my understanding. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Cheers > chalie >

mtkennedy1 wrote: > > I didn't think the person asking was > likely to be beating to weather in that Cal 28 anytime soon. We have a > high clew 120% jib > on the roller furler for going back and forth to Catalina. I'm too old > to enjoy beating over > there close hauled in a breeze. I used to do that sitting on the rail > or driving and I've > passed that course. I go to weather under power unless it's an unusual > situation. > Well, maybe you're luckier with the weather than I am, but if I only sailed off the wind, I'd never sail at all. The wind is usually coming from wherever I want to go. There must be some law responsible for that phenomenon. For my evening sails off the mooring, I have to beat to go anywhere about half the time. /And that's the fun part/ because our summer winds tend to be light. The bad news comes when you've gone to windward and must then go back. That means no apparent wind, and with the breeze typically dropping at that time of evening, often no wind at all. Suddenly I am grateful for beating. And sometimes I'll break down and fire up the outboard when I get tired of slatting sails. Sometimes when I'm lucky there will be a big blow from the north that lets me reach back and forth across our Bay. My little Cal 20 shares the Bay then with one or two of the schooners and perhaps one big yacht. Everybody else is sitting at home, leaving the Bay to the one fool in the little boat and to the tourists on the big schooners. I get wet, cold, and happy and stay out until the wind-chill has drained too much bodily warmth. On our local historic schooner, going to weather is a diesel affair. First of all, she doesn't much like beating anyway, and eventually makes more leeway than forward motion--the bow points in the right direction but the course is otherwise. Also, we're often trying to reach some port on a schedule and don't have the freedom the old commercial schooners had to get there when wind and weather permit. We often motor sail, either to save a bit on diesel or to give the illusion of sailing. Chris Campbell

i don't know about Bruce, and His intrepid Cal-28 down San Diego way...... but here is one crazy bitch, with a Cal-28 up in Puget Sound who likes nothing more than going too-weather. and is planing her rebuild of BB-54 to handle such first & foremost. and in standing winds of 20 knots or better. part & parcel of this is adding a high-aspect rig and lowering the *C of G*. adding towable jib-cars, windward main-sheeting, full- batten main with harken mast track, and retractable sprit. By-the way; any of you Cal-40 Guys got 8 foot or more of an old original boom you want to donate to my project???? (cal-40 boom is the same as cal-28 mast) so, as you all mite guess; i have been listening to this sail- trim discussion with great interest. however, i also temper what you Guys have to say with how i see the J-boats designed. after all, those are great up-wind boats. all-be them a little light in the butt. not unlike the Cal-28....... any comment's please....? crazy fiver ********************************* --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "mtkennedy1" <mtkennedy1@...> wrote: > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@> wrote: > > > > Fin, nailed most of what I meant to say. Just a few adds. > > > > Two sails can have the same LP, but have totally different clew heights. > > For racing we get "deck sweeper" #2s and #3s. These require additional > > jib track farther forward for proper sheeting angle (except some > > reaching sails for racing that Mike described - like the Jib Top.) > > I agree. Fin is the expert when it comes to racing. I didn't think the person asking was > likely to be beating to weather in that Cal 28 anytime soon. We have a high clew 120% jib > on the roller furler for going back and forth to Catalina. I'm too old to enjoy beating over > there close hauled in a breeze. I used to do that sitting on the rail or driving and I've > passed that course. I go to weather under power unless it's an unusual situation. > > I might add a #3 and a forward inboard track if we do any class racing. That's in the > future. > > > > For cruising, you'd want you smaller sails to have higher and higher > > clews so that they sheet back to approximately the same location. I've > > attached a picture. > > > > I believe the term "lapper" originates with a sail that does over"lap" > > the mast by a little - say a 110 or 120 percent sail. Am I correct? > > That's my understanding. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > Cheers > > chalie > > >

At least on a Cal-40, it's pretty simple. Our #3 sheets to a point that's just aft of the shrouds, and about half-way between the cabin-sides and the shrouds. I think that the sheeting angle is about 15 degrees (which I will check and confirm). Curiously, if you follow that same line, at about 15 degrees, it intersects the toe-rail at a point very close to where the #1 sheets. Again, 15 degrees, or something close to that. Any sail size in-between the #3 and the #1 has to pass outside of the shrouds and spreader, and ends up sheeting at a wider angle, and does not seem to sheet as well if you care to sail to windward efficiently. This is why we no longer use a #2 or a "lapper" or "mule". Racing or cruising, that approximate 15-degree sheeting angle seems to do what we want in a typical day of sailing .... get to weather efficiently when the need is there. And (and here's the huge benefit for the crew) - - - the sheet length for the #3 is significantly shorter than for a #2, and way shorter than for a #1. In a typical tack on the Cal-40, using the #3, the new sheet only needs to be brought in about 5' total, from tack-to-tack. The "trimmers" and "grinders" love the #3. On a Cal-28, that would probably be somewhere between 3' and 4' to complete a tack. Very little speed is lost between tacks when that's all you need to bring in, so the whole trimming process can be done by one person with a self-tailing two-speed winch. The "deck-sweeper" Mike referred to has its advantages and disadvantages. On the advantage side, there is supposedly an "end-plate" effect from the deck that steers the wind aft and supposedly makes the sail more efficient. The lower clew also lowers the center of effort of the sail, creating less heal for the same sail area. And, a high clew is also pushed even further to leeward (wider sheeting angle) by the pressure of the wind on the windward side of the sail. On the down-side with a "deck-sweeper", there is virtually no visibility forward and to leeward from a typical windward steering position. Unless you put a "window" in the sail, which wouldn't be such a bad idea. Fin. ----- Original Message ----- From: mtkennedy1<mailto:mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Sail Trim --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com>, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Fin, nailed most of what I meant to say. Just a few adds. > > Two sails can have the same LP, but have totally different clew heights. > For racing we get "deck sweeper" #2s and #3s. These require additional > jib track farther forward for proper sheeting angle (except some > reaching sails for racing that Mike described - like the Jib Top.) I agree. Fin is the expert when it comes to racing. I didn't think the person asking was likely to be beating to weather in that Cal 28 anytime soon. We have a high clew 120% jib on the roller furler for going back and forth to Catalina. I'm too old to enjoy beating over there close hauled in a breeze. I used to do that sitting on the rail or driving and I've passed that course. I go to weather under power unless it's an unusual situation. I might add a #3 and a forward inboard track if we do any class racing. That's in the future. > For cruising, you'd want you smaller sails to have higher and higher > clews so that they sheet back to approximately the same location. I've > attached a picture. > > I believe the term "lapper" originates with a sail that does over"lap" > the mast by a little - say a 110 or 120 percent sail. Am I correct? That's my understanding. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > Cheers > chalie >