Need some advice.

Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or motoring around. Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, so we're a little light on experience. Thanks, Ron & Rose

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > What model Yanmar ? I have a 3YM in my Cal 40 and it goes 7 knots under power. I had a AT4 in my Cal 34 and replaced it twice. I kicked my self that I did not change to a new diesel when I did it the first time. The AT4 isn't really 30 HP anyway. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

Hi Ron & Rose, Comments in***** --- Ron & Rose <bo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I > have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He > says it will drop > right in. *****Unless you changed the engine beds, It will NOT drop right in, plus what model Yanmar is it? I sell, rebuild, replace engines diesels and A4's. What is wrong with your A4? With minimal maintenance and care they will last forever. I sell completely remanufactured A4's for $3,500, a new Beta 30 HP diesel that will fit your beds is only $8,500 + $1,500 R & R. Depending on your cruising area and plans,20 HP may be adequate. I cruised a 36' with a 22HP for years in SoCal. So if you are in a fair weather area and are not going long distance; 1-Get a good tune up on your A4 and use it until it dies. 2-If the deal on the Yanmar 20 is good, low dollars, low hours, runs clean, no leaks and you have the skills, time, etc. buy it and replace it yourself. Yanmar parts are very pricey and IMHO the Beta/Kubota is a far superior engine. Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 & 25, Bayou Chico, FL I have seen some raised eye browse by > others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, > per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more > concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of > the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This > is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose ****Welcome to our Cal World > > >

Hi,I have been told that the gas engine is dangerous. It runs fine, and no matter what we will have gasoline & propane aboard. So, not really concerned about the "supposed" danger. Sure if we develop a gas leak, we have a problem, we're both bery cautious, so we takes our chances, and pays our dues. We are intending to cruise the sea of cortez. With that I suppose there is a concern over getting gas in the bilges. Thanks for all of the info.. Ron -- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Tom Vandiver <bshmarine@...> wrote: > > Hi Ron & Rose, > > Comments in***** > --- Ron & Rose <boatworksrnr@...> wrote: > > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I > > have a guy trying to > > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He > > says it will drop > > right in. > > *****Unless you changed the engine beds, It will NOT > drop right in, plus what model Yanmar is it? > I sell, rebuild, replace engines diesels and A4's. > > What is wrong with your A4? With minimal maintenance > and care they will last forever. I sell completely > remanufactured A4's for $3,500, a new Beta 30 HP > diesel that will fit your beds is only $8,500 + $1,500 > R & R. > > Depending on your cruising area and plans,20 HP may be > adequate. I cruised a 36' with a 22HP for years in > SoCal. So if you are in a fair weather area and are > not going long distance; > 1-Get a good tune up on your A4 and use it until it > dies. > 2-If the deal on the Yanmar 20 is good, low dollars, > low hours, runs clean, no leaks and you have the > skills, time, etc. buy it and replace it yourself. > Yanmar parts are very pricey and IMHO the Beta/Kubota > is a far superior engine. > > Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 & 25, Bayou Chico, FL > > > I have seen some raised eye browse by > > others. Also, it's > > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, > > per foot. Is 20 hp > > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more > > concerned about an > > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of > > the slip, or > > motoring around. > > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This > > is our first boat, > > so we're a little light on experience. > > Thanks, > > Ron & Rose > ****Welcome to our Cal World > > > > > > >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@...> wrote: > > Hi,I have been told that the gas engine is dangerous. It runs fine, I wouldn't throw away an Atomic 4 that is running fine. > and no matter what we will have gasoline & propane aboard. I do not understand why propane became the dominant stove fuel. I kept CNG when I restored the 40 but it is now expensive to do so. >So, not > really concerned about the "supposed" danger. Sure if we develop a > gas leak, we have a problem, we're both bery cautious, so we takes > our chances, and pays our dues. > We are intending to cruise the sea of cortez. With that I suppose > there is a concern over getting gas in the bilges. Biggest concern is getting fuel in Mexico. Gas and propane are probably better choices. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > Thanks for all of the info.. > Ron

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > My Cal 28 was partially submerged prior to my buying it and the A-4 was a solid block of rust. I bought a used replacement but since my primary use of a motor is to get in and out of the marina I, (actually my wife) decided to skip the inboard and hang a 10 hp Honda outboard off the transom. There are at least a dozen boats here ranging from 24 to 34 ft that use outboards in the 7.5 to 15 hp range and they seem to do quite well. That probably wouldn't suit your purposes if you are going to the Sea of Cortez, but the Cal 28 at least actually came with an outboard option. I think in many cases, the biggest difference may be in how ya recharge the batteries---the inboard has to be better than what I'll have to do, but I also gain a huge amount of interior storage.

first of all I'm no expert. Just an avid user... I'd be wary of going smaller, unless you intend on racing outright, and cruise in protected waters. Smaller engines must work at the top end of their range to propel your boat. In seas or winds, it may have to be over spun or be at full throttle to make headway. This is hard on all systems. Our Cal 9.2 came with an Universal 11 hp diesel, Freewind weighs @ 7,000# and is @ 30'. We were able to meet race requirements, and put many hours on this engine. Fantastic unit. We changed Freewind to a 20hp (Universal/Westerbeke) diesel about 5 years ago. Two years ago, we left Port Angeles, and motored all night against a gale, out the Straits of Juan de Fuca. To make headway in the large seas and around logs in the tide breaks we were full power. To my "surprise" the new transmission disk failed, and began to slip substantially. Once back home I did a bit of homework. "Pleasure craft" engines are not designed to run at peak power for very long, in fact the 20 hp engine, was factory matched with a transmission that had a continuous load rating of 14hp. "Running for our life" out the Straits, at full power, ate the unit. I replaced the transmission with one rated to 40+ hp. So in summary, If you sail in safe waters, then smaller engines might be a race solution. If you coastal cruise with a "heavy boat" like the 34, I would not go smaller, and I would surely verify the ratings between the offered engine/ transmission package, to determine what it's true rating is for continuous "escape" power. I find it hard to swallow the statement "drop right in" as a complete concept of the task. Our replacement Vetus on the Cal 40 "dropped right in", once we added Ironwood rails on the bed. Then we had to replace the fuel tank for diesel (from gas), add the closed loop cooling, change engine panels, controls, linkage, engine to transmission half shaft, new transmission gearing, prop resizing and exhaust systems. The engine "dropped right in"... the required components that did not "drop in" took 95% of the effort and maybe 50% more of the cost. Good luck, Been there twice... with no regrets. Cheers dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scahill57 Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:43 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some advice. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > My Cal 28 was partially submerged prior to my buying it and the A-4 was a solid block of rust. I bought a used replacement but since my primary use of a motor is to get in and out of the marina I, (actually my wife) decided to skip the inboard and hang a 10 hp Honda outboard off the transom. There are at least a dozen boats here ranging from 24 to 34 ft that use outboards in the 7.5 to 15 hp range and they seem to do quite well. That probably wouldn't suit your purposes if you are going to the Sea of Cortez, but the Cal 28 at least actually came with an outboard option. I think in many cases, the biggest difference may be in how ya recharge the batteries---the inboard has to be better than what I'll have to do, but I also gain a huge amount of interior storage.

That 1 HP per foot is BS. My Cal 24 runs wonderfully on a Suzuki 4 and the OB pushes it to within a few tenths of a knot shy of hull speed. Plus it is light to lift and replace for racing purposes, and very reliable. I learned this year that you should replace your impeller at least once every four years, preferably maybe once every three years to be safe. My impeller came apart and made the OB overheat and conk out, with one blade blocking the water inlet to the cooling system. Thankfully I was motoring at half speed at the time, and was headed to start of race and got a tow. Luckily, no damage was done to the motor as far as I can tell. If the Atomic 4 runs I'd leave well enough alone. But the Atomic 4 is an inefficient match, generally, to the propeller. The 20 hp Diesel would be perfect. Also, OB's on the transom are pretty ineffective in a sea swells, the prop will continually come out of the water, and sometimes over-spin and tear up your rubber prop bushing, then the motor will run but the propeller won't. Uggh! Jerry --- On Tue, 12/18/07, scahill57 <sc… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: scahill57 <sc… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some advice. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 10:43 AM --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com , "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@ ...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > My Cal 28 was partially submerged prior to my buying it and the A-4 was a solid block of rust. I bought a used replacement but since my primary use of a motor is to get in and out of the marina I, (actually my wife) decided to skip the inboard and hang a 10 hp Honda outboard off the transom. There are at least a dozen boats here ranging from 24 to 34 ft that use outboards in the 7.5 to 15 hp range and they seem to do quite well. That probably wouldn't suit your purposes if you are going to the Sea of Cortez, but the Cal 28 at least actually came with an outboard option. I think in many cases, the biggest difference may be in how ya recharge the batteries--- the inboard has to be better than what I'll have to do, but I also gain a huge amount of interior storage.

Ron & Rose, I replaced the original Universal 5411 (11 HP diesel) with a BetaMarine BZ482 (13.5 HP). No problem with pushing Magic (Cal 2-27) to hull speed. BTW, it was a drop-in replacement although I did have to install a longer propeller shaft. Michael Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: That 1 HP per foot is BS. My Cal 24 runs wonderfully on a Suzuki 4 and the OB pushes it to within a few tenths of a knot shy of hull speed. Plus it is light to lift and replace for racing purposes, and very reliable. I learned this year that you should replace your impeller at least once every four years, preferably maybe once every three years to be safe. My impeller came apart and made the OB overheat and conk out, with one blade blocking the water inlet to the cooling system. Thankfully I was motoring at half speed at the time, and was headed to start of race and got a tow. Luckily, no damage was done to the motor as far as I can tell. If the Atomic 4 runs I'd leave well enough alone. But the Atomic 4 is an inefficient match, generally, to the propeller. The 20 hp Diesel would be perfect. Also, OB's on the transom are pretty ineffective in a sea swells, the prop will continually come out of the water, and sometimes over-spin and tear up your rubber prop bushing, then the motor will run but the propeller won't. Uggh! Jerry --- On Tue, 12/18/07, scahill57 <sc… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: scahill57 <sc… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some advice. To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 10:43 AM --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@ ...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > My Cal 28 was partially submerged prior to my buying it and the A-4 was a solid block of rust. I bought a used replacement but since my primary use of a motor is to get in and out of the marina I, (actually my wife) decided to skip the inboard and hang a 10 hp Honda outboard off the transom. There are at least a dozen boats here ranging from 24 to 34 ft that use outboards in the 7.5 to 15 hp range and they seem to do quite well. That probably wouldn't suit your purposes if you are going to the Sea of Cortez, but the Cal 28 at least actually came with an outboard option. I think in many cases, the biggest difference may be in how ya recharge the batteries--- the inboard has to be better than what I'll have to do, but I also gain a huge amount of interior storage. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

greetings All..... first off; i must second much of what Timmothy (dEmO) had to say in his last post on engine sizing. one must really think of the waters they may find them selves in when choosing their power-plant. and i will go even further in that the rough-waters of a sea- way, large bay, or the ocean, are no place for an out-board motor hanging off one stern. and here is the simple reason why; in anything close to a gale, and where one's bows are into the sea (as they had better be). it's more than likely that little out-board hanging off one stern could find it's self out of the water as much as in, maybe more. causing over-heating due to lack of water ingesting. lack of steerageway due to lack of motor being in the water. and maybe even the lack of the motor in short course. this is the one reason that keeps me from using out-board's on my boat. the other important point i want to make is this; it seems that many of these newer diesel's are coming equipped with *Hurth* transmissions. truly cute little things that one could almost put in ones Christmas stocking. but just recently, i had the chance to study the parts-brake-down for one of these little wonders. and while i found them really simple in function, and basically strong enough to suffice for you lawnmower-size diesel. they do have one *Glaring* flaw. the out-put shaft that carrier's all the clutch-disks, and this really cool engagement mechanism; and of course, the spacer shims...... well, this whole precision mess is riding on just *two* small timkem cup bearings. one at each end of the one-inch shaft this stuff sits on. now that would be Ok and everything if it were not for one other small problem. at the stern end (back) of said transmission, this cute-little one-inch shaft goes on it's marry little way out into the real-world and terminates in a *shaft-coupling*. Hummmmm......... did i miss something there???? surly no buddy in there right mind would build a transmission for any use that didn't have extra radial, and thrust bearing, at the business end of the box! just a minute, let me check. one little timken tapered roller bearing at the bow, and one little timken tapered roller bearing at the stern.... Damn! i think those boys sent this thing out the door with out it's pants down. but that's right. the little *Hurth* tranny's are a bit lightly built in this girls opinion. and if i had on in my boat, i would most definitely not have it *Hard* coupled to the shaft. i would have a *thrust bearing* just forward of the stuffing box on the propeller shaft. and then use a *torsion-only* rubber-element coupling between the shaft and the tranny....... and if you haven't got room, slide that toy engine forward a mite...... or you can keep buying Hurth trannys at $1100 a pop! fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now hove-too, not 10' south of my front porch; in my Sister Karen's one acre back yard....... (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ************************************ --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > first of all I'm no expert. Just an avid user... > > I'd be wary of going smaller, unless you intend on racing outright, and > cruise in protected waters. > > Smaller engines must work at the top end of their range to propel your > boat. In seas or winds, it may have to be over spun or be at full > throttle to make headway. This is hard on all systems. > > Our Cal 9.2 came with an Universal 11 hp diesel, Freewind weighs @ > 7,000# and is @ 30'. We were able to meet race requirements, and put > many hours on this engine. Fantastic unit. > > We changed Freewind to a 20hp (Universal/Westerbeke) diesel about 5 > years ago. Two years ago, we left Port Angeles, and motored all night > against a gale, out the Straits of Juan de Fuca. To make headway in the > large seas and around logs in the tide breaks we were full power. To my > "surprise" the new transmission disk failed, and began to slip > substantially. > > Once back home I did a bit of homework. "Pleasure craft" engines are not > designed to run at peak power for very long, in fact the 20 hp engine, > was factory matched with a transmission that had a continuous load > rating of 14hp. "Running for our life" out the Straits, at full power, > ate the unit. I replaced the transmission with one rated to 40+ hp. > > So in summary, If you sail in safe waters, then smaller engines might be > a race solution. If you coastal cruise with a "heavy boat" like the 34, > I would not go smaller, and I would surely verify the ratings between > the offered engine/ transmission package, to determine what it's true > rating is for continuous "escape" power. > > I find it hard to swallow the statement "drop right in" as a complete > concept of the task. Our replacement Vetus on the Cal 40 "dropped right > in", once we added Ironwood rails on the bed. Then we had to replace the > fuel tank for diesel (from gas), add the closed loop cooling, change > engine panels, controls, linkage, engine to transmission half shaft, new > transmission gearing, prop resizing and exhaust systems. The engine > "dropped right in"... the required components that did not "drop in" > took 95% of the effort and maybe 50% more of the cost. > > Good luck, > Been there twice... with no regrets. > > Cheers > dEmO > >

I defer to Tim in his answer about repowering big boats, He's got the off shore experience that i don't have. I just know in the 19th century ships were powered successfully by engines that we'd now think ridiculously small. Of course some of those ships ended up reefs were they made excellent fish shelters for generations to come. I'd guess however that the newish Yanmar 20HP diesel, designed from day one to be a marine aux. puts out as much shaft torque as the Atomic 4 in the normal operating RPM range for a marine application. Wasn't the Atomic 4 basically a simple old fashion pan head jeep engine that was marine converted? They had hundreds of thousands left over from WWII. The same engine was put in as OEM in sailboats from 25' to 40'! I need to pull my outboard out of the water in a seaway, the hobby horsing will continually pop the prop out of the water and cause the engine to scream, and when it does this a bunch of times it will tear up my prob hub linkage. If I've got that much wind I'm sailing, even if it means slogging/tacking upwind for 40 miles up the coast, through the day and through the night, like I've done several times while bound from Marina del Rey to Channel Islands Harbor or up the Santa Barbara, for down wind races the next day. Sometimes, getting to the starting line is harder than doing the race. Hey, it builds character, doesn't it? Or it teaches you to get an earlier start next time around. Jerry --- On Tue, 12/18/07, ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: From: ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some advice.[Ron] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2007, 11:27 AM first of all I'm no expert. Just an avid user... I 'd be wary of going smaller, unless you intend on racing outright, and cruise in protected waters. Smaller engines must work at the top end of their range to propel your boat. In seas or winds, it may have to be over spun or be at full throttle to make headway. This is hard on all systems. Our Cal 9.2 came with an Universal 11 hp diesel, Freewind weighs @ 7,000# and is @ 30'. We were able to meet race requirements, and put many hours on this engine. Fantastic unit. We changed Freewind to a 20hp (Universal/Westerbe ke) diesel about 5 years ago. Two years ago, we left Port Angeles, and motored all night against a gale, out the Straits of Juan de Fuca. To make headway in the large seas and around logs in the tide breaks we were full power. To my "surprise" the new transmission disk failed, and began to slip substantially. Once back home I did a bit of homework. "Pleasure craft" engines are not designed to run at peak power for very long, in fact the 20 hp engine, was factory matched with a transmission that had a continuous load rating of 14hp. "Running for our life" out the Straits, at full power, ate the unit. I replaced the transmission with one rated to 40+ hp. So in summary, If you sail in safe waters, then smaller engines might be a race solution. If you coastal cruise with a "heavy boat" like the 34, I would not go smaller, and I would surely verify the ratings between the offered engine/ transmission package, to determine what it's true rating is for continuous "escape" power. I find it hard to swallow the statement "drop right in" as a complete concept of the task. Our replacement Vetus on the Cal 40 "dropped right in", once we added Ironwood rails on the bed. Then we had to replace the fuel tank for diesel (from gas), add the closed loop cooling, change engine panels, controls, linkage, engine to transmission half shaft, new transmission gearing, prop resizing and exhaust systems. The engine "dropped right in"... the required components that did not "drop in" took 95% of the effort and maybe 50% more of the cost. Good luck, Been there twice... with no regrets. Cheers dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of scahill57 Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:43 AM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some advice. --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com , "Ron & Rose" <boatworksrnr@ ...> wrote: > > Hi, We own a 1970 Cal 34, with a 30 hp atomic 4. I have a guy trying to > sell me a 20 hp yanmar diesel with tranny etc. He says it will drop > right in. I have seen some raised eye browse by others. Also, it's > our understanding that "rule of thumb" is 1 hp, per foot. Is 20 hp > gonna be sufficient to push our 34' boat? I'm more concerned about an > emergency situation, than just getting in and out of the slip, or > motoring around. > Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated. This is our first boat, > so we're a little light on experience. > Thanks, > Ron & Rose > My Cal 28 was partially submerged prior to my buying it and the A-4 was a solid block of rust. I bought a used replacement but since my primary use of a motor is to get in and out of the marina I, (actually my wife) decided to skip the inboard and hang a 10 hp Honda outboard off the transom. There are at least a dozen boats here ranging from 24 to 34 ft that use outboards in the 7.5 to 15 hp range and they seem to do quite well. That probably wouldn't suit your purposes if you are going to the Sea of Cortez, but the Cal 28 at least actually came with an outboard option. I think in many cases, the biggest difference may be in how ya recharge the batteries--- the inboard has to be better than what I'll have to do, but I also gain a huge amount of interior storage.

Fiver, not to mention that one can fill the cockpit via the stern if one has an engine cut-out (not as bad for outboards with closed wells). Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of slickbutfoxbuger Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:16 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Need some *Hurth* advice.[everone] greetings All..... first off; i must second much of what Timmothy (dEmO) had to say in his last post on engine sizing. one must really think of the waters they may find them selves in when choosing their power-plant. and i will go even further in that the rough-waters of a sea- way, large bay, or the ocean, are no place for an out-board motor hanging off one stern. and here is the simple reason why; in anything close to a gale, and where one's bows are into the sea (as they had better be). it's more than likely that little out-board hanging off one stern could find it's self out of the water as much as in, maybe more. causing over-heating due to lack of water ingesting. lack of steerageway due to lack of motor being in the water. and maybe even the lack of the motor in short course. this is the one reason that keeps me from using out-board's on my boat. the other important point i want to make is this; it seems that many of these newer diesel's are coming equipped with *Hurth* transmissions. truly cute little things that one could almost put in ones Christmas stocking. but just recently, i had the chance to study the parts-brake-down for one of these little wonders. and while i found them really simple in function, and basically strong enough to suffice for you lawnmower-size diesel. they do have one *Glaring* flaw. the out-put shaft that carrier's all the clutch-disks, and this really cool engagement mechanism; and of course, the spacer shims...... well, this whole precision mess is riding on just *two* small timkem cup bearings. one at each end of the one-inch shaft this stuff sits on. now that would be Ok and everything if it were not for one other small problem. at the stern end (back) of said transmission, this cute-little one-inch shaft goes on it's marry little way out into the real-world and terminates in a *shaft-coupling*. Hummmmm......... did i miss something there???? surly no buddy in there right mind would build a transmission for any use that didn't have extra radial, and thrust bearing, at the business end of the box! just a minute, let me check. one little timken tapered roller bearing at the bow, and one little timken tapered roller bearing at the stern.... Damn! i think those boys sent this thing out the door with out it's pants down. but that's right. the little *Hurth* tranny's are a bit lightly built in this girls opinion. and if i had on in my boat, i would most definitely not have it *Hard* coupled to the shaft. i would have a *thrust bearing* just forward of the stuffing box on the propeller shaft. and then use a *torsion-only* rubber-element coupling between the shaft and the tranny....... and if you haven't got room, slide that toy engine forward a mite...... or you can keep buying Hurth trannys at $1100 a pop! fiver, Master of The "BB-54" one of the famous Cal-28 flush-decks out of Sierra-5, Papa Hotel (in days gone by) now hove-too, not 10' south of my front porch; in my Sister Karen's one acre back yard....... (built like a Battleship; sails like a Sub......) ************************************ --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > first of all I'm no expert. Just an avid user... > > I'd be wary of going smaller, unless you intend on racing outright, and > cruise in protected waters. > > Smaller engines must work at the top end of their range to propel your > boat. In seas or winds, it may have to be over spun or be at full > throttle to make headway. This is hard on all systems. > > Our Cal 9.2 came with an Universal 11 hp diesel, Freewind weighs @ > 7,000# and is @ 30'. We were able to meet race requirements, and put > many hours on this engine. Fantastic unit. > > We changed Freewind to a 20hp (Universal/Westerbeke) diesel about 5 > years ago. Two years ago, we left Port Angeles, and motored all night > against a gale, out the Straits of Juan de Fuca. To make headway in the > large seas and around logs in the tide breaks we were full power. To my > "surprise" the new transmission disk failed, and began to slip > substantially. > > Once back home I did a bit of homework. "Pleasure craft" engines are not > designed to run at peak power for very long, in fact the 20 hp engine, > was factory matched with a transmission that had a continuous load > rating of 14hp. "Running for our life" out the Straits, at full power, > ate the unit. I replaced the transmission with one rated to 40+ hp. > > So in summary, If you sail in safe waters, then smaller engines might be > a race solution. If you coastal cruise with a "heavy boat" like the 34, > I would not go smaller, and I would surely verify the ratings between > the offered engine/ transmission package, to determine what it's true > rating is for continuous "escape" power. > > I find it hard to swallow the statement "drop right in" as a complete > concept of the task. Our replacement Vetus on the Cal 40 "dropped right > in", once we added Ironwood rails on the bed. Then we had to replace the > fuel tank for diesel (from gas), add the closed loop cooling, change > engine panels, controls, linkage, engine to transmission half shaft, new > transmission gearing, prop resizing and exhaust systems. The engine > "dropped right in"... the required components that did not "drop in" > took 95% of the effort and maybe 50% more of the cost. > > Good luck, > Been there twice... with no regrets. > > Cheers > dEmO > > Yahoo! Groups Links