10 messages2007-12-19 17:28 UTCthrough 2007-12-20 04:23
Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
ya… [at] aol.com2007-12-19 17:28 UTC
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel relationship
for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have
300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is gas
powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground, until
they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings, what would
happen, if anything, and why?
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is rated at
more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas engine, without
regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that HP.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is it a
lot of variables coming into play?
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a comparable
gas engine? Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to
know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
RE: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
r good2007-12-19 17:32 UTC
if a train is traveling east at 6o miles per hour and you toss a ball........
Reggie
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.comFrom: ya… [at] aol.comDate: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:28:48 -0500Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel relationship for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have 300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is gas powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground, until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings, what would happen, if anything, and why?
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is rated at more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas engine, without regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that HP.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is it a lot of variables coming into play?
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a comparable gas engine? Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
ya… [at] aol.com2007-12-19 18:40 UTC
ya know, I was thinking the same thing as I asked the questions...<g>
Mark and Terry Rogers
"Seirenia", 1966 Cal 36 hull #22
Newburyport, Ma
Mobile Marine Electrical Services/MMES Custom Panels
www.wewireboats.com
ya… [at] aol.com
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe DeMers2007-12-19 19:33 UTC
Here's my Dad's favorite riddle -
If an electric train is going forward at 50 mph with a 50 mph tailwind, in what direction does the exhaust smoke go?
Joe DeMers
Sound Marine Diesel LLC
www.soundmarinediesel.com
----- Original Message -----
From: r good
To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
if a train is traveling east at 6o miles per hour and you toss a ball........
Reggie
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
From: ya… [at] aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:28:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel relationship for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have 300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is gas powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground, until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings, what would happen, if anything, and why?
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is rated at more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas engine, without regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that HP.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is it a lot of variables coming into play?
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a comparable gas engine? Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
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Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Donald Dutton2007-12-19 20:10 UTC
What smoke? From an ELECTRIC TRAIN????
Don Dutton, Cal 33 "Quantum Evolution"
From: Joe DeMers <je… [at] mindspring.com>
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:33:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Here's my Dad's favorite riddle -
If an electric train is going forward at 50 mph with a 50
mph tailwind, in what direction does the exhaust smoke go?
Joe DeMers
Sound Marine Diesel LLC
www.soundmarinedies el.com
----- Original Message -----
From:
r good
To: cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:32
PM
Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [
was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
if a train is traveling east at 6o miles per hour and you toss
a ball........
Reggie
To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com
From:
yachtwire1@aol. com
Date: Wed, 19
Dec 2007 12:28:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was
Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel
relationship for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-identical in every way, with the same loads. Both
have 300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one
is gas powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground,
until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings,
what would happen, if anything, and why?
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is
rated at more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas
engine, without regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that
HP.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is
it a lot of variables coming into play?
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a
comparable gas engine? Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to
know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
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12/16/2007 11:36 AM
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Diesel engine vrs gasoline engine [ was BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe DeMers2007-12-19 20:16 UTC
From: ya… [at] aol.com
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel relationship for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-
****** TRUCKS? This here is a SAILBOAT list Mark!
identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have 300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is gas powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground, until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings, what would happen, if anything, and why?
***** OK - the diesel truck driver cannot change the throttle setting, as there is no throttle on a diesel. Next question.
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is rated at more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas engine, without regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that HP.
***** Generally speaking, that is correct.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is it a lot of variables coming into play?
***** It would be easier to compare 2 specific engines, as this would eliminate generalities.
**** However, most diesel engines are designed to operate at lower rpm than a comperable gas engine. This is because the diesel usually has a longer piston stroke, designed to create more torque at lower speed than a gas engine. High speed gas engines have a short stroke, to facilitate high speed operation.
***** For extreme examples, a Lemans type racing car has a very high speed [ 10,000+ rpm ] gasoline engine. This is to provide max hp with minimal engine weight and shortened engine life. This type engine has a very rapid throttle response [ is "free reving" ] with minimal piston stroke and a larger piston diameter. This is ideal for providing instant acelleration in a lightweight racing car. Hi torque is a very minor consideration.
**** A farm tractor does not need rapid acelleration, it needs a workhorse engine with lots of torque to move heavy loads for long periods. This requires sturdy construction for durability, and where weight is a minor consideration. A long stroke, [ high torque ] and hense slow reving [ under 4000 rpm ]
diesel engine is ideal for this application.
***** Remember, torque gets the static load moving, horsepower maintains the movement.
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a comparable gas engine?
***** Generally speaking, yes. They can also have "torque rise" which is the increase of torque [ as seen on a graph ] when carrying a load uphill, when engine rpm drops, in your truck example, above. This is the big reason why diesel trucks will not slow significantly [ as compared to gas powered trucks ] when pushing a load uphill.
Joe DeMers
Sound Marine Diesel LLC
www.soundmarinediesel.com
Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
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Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe DeMers2007-12-19 20:18 UTC
Couldn't fool you Don.
Joe DeMers
Sound Marine Diesel LLC
www.soundmarinediesel.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Dutton
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
What smoke? From an ELECTRIC TRAIN????
Don Dutton, Cal 33 "Quantum Evolution"
----- Original Message ----
From: Joe DeMers <je… [at] mindspring.com>
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:33:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Here's my Dad's favorite riddle -
If an electric train is going forward at 50 mph with a 50 mph tailwind, in what direction does the exhaust smoke go?
Joe DeMers
Sound Marine Diesel LLC
www.soundmarinedies el.com
----- Original Message -----
From: r good
To: cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
if a train is traveling east at 6o miles per hour and you toss a ball........
Reggie
To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com
From: yachtwire1@aol. com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:28:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Joe,
Maybe you can clarify the horsepower vs torque vs gas vs diesel relationship for me...and the list in general.
Let's take two trucks-identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have 300 HP engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is gas powered and one is diesel.
They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level ground, until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change throttle settings, what would happen, if anything, and why?
Second question;
It seems from what I read that a diesel engine of a given HP is rated at more foot-pounds (or is it pound-feet?) of torque than a gas engine, without regard to whatever RPM each has to turn to produce that HP.
Is there an easy explanation of the whole HP/Torque relationship, or is it a lot of variables coming into play?
Lastly;
Does a diesel produce it's rated HP over a wider RPM range than a comparable gas engine? Is that where the torque numbers are relevant?
Thanks! As always you are a font of knowledge. Inquiring minds want to know...(and so do I)
Best-Mark
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 12/16/2007 11:36 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: 12/16/2007 11:36 AM
Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Chris Campbell2007-12-19 21:04 UTC
Joe DeMers wrote:
>
> Here's my Dad's favorite riddle -
>
> If an electric train is going forward at 50 mph with a 50 mph
> tailwind, in what direction does the exhaust smoke go?
So this is a trick question? --an electric train has no exhaust
smoke--except that I've got an old Lionel that heats up "smoke pellets"
and actually puffs out white smoke. But it doesn't go 50 mph so I can't
answer the question....
Chris Campbell
>
>
RE: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel]
ti… [at] ch2m.com2007-12-19 21:38 UTC
Most of the commercial (AT&SF) electric trains I see are diesel
powered...
So they really do make smoke, just not steam..
Our light rail, on the other hand, the smoke is in the mirrors, I guess,
because
our $12 million dollar system just cost $60 million...
From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:04 PM
To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to
diesel]
Joe DeMers wrote:
Here's my Dad's favorite riddle -
If an electric train is going forward at 50 mph with a 50 mph
tailwind, in what direction does the exhaust smoke go?
So this is a trick question? --an electric train has no exhaust
smoke--except that I've got an old Lionel that heats up "smoke pellets"
and actually puffs out white smoke. But it doesn't go 50 mph so I can't
answer the question....
Chris Campbell
Re: Diesel engine vrs gasoline engine [ was BMW D12 engine [ was Atomic 4 comparison to diesel ]
Marshall Wise2007-12-20 04:23
Yer just gonna make me, aren't you?
The gas would crap out, and anyway, no self-respecting truck driver
would NOT gouge on it coming to a hill. You mash the motor and go on
up.
Anyway, w/ a gas motor, you'd just be dogging it.
My 2 Pfennige... Marsh
--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Joe DeMers" <jedsail@...> wrote:
>
> Let's take two trucks-
>
> ****** TRUCKS? This here is a SAILBOAT list Mark!
>
> identical in every way, with the same loads. Both have 300 HP
engines, with the same drive train gear ratios, etc...but, one is
gas powered and one is diesel.
>
> They are traveling at the same speed side-by-side on level
ground, until they come to a hill. If the drivers didn't change
throttle settings, what would happen, if anything, and why?
>
> ***** OK - the diesel truck driver cannot change the throttle
setting, as there is no throttle on a diesel. Next question.
>
>
>