Stove options for our sailboats

hello there all, so after my previous post of looking for options for my utilities on my old Cal 28, I seem to have worked out most of my bugs, except for what to do with my stinky old kerosene heater and stove, I got some kerosene and new lines and tried them both out on the weekend, neither would prime properly, so i was left dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling black smoke filling my cabin, not looking to repeat this in the future. I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated our house from old kerosene lamps, although much more concentrated and inescapable in my cramped cabin space, left me thinking there must be a better way, as i pulled both out, and began looking online for a solution, I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in there, not really liking the idea of propane.... so i leave it to the cal group: what is a cost/space/time effective way to have a few burners in my cal without asphyxiating or exploding myself? thanks again for your replies

Whenever I used my diesel heater or pressure alcohol stove, I always use a propane torch, you know, the big one with the piezo lighter built into the torch head. Just fire that puppy up, and heat up the generator (stem) of the stove or heater. When you get a nice glow or orange flame around the generator, turn on the fuel and ignite with the torch. Typically this is a smokeless start-up. As we don't stay in cold weather for extended time, we now use an Origo Stove, and a Coleman O2 sensing propane heater. We've rigged up an attachment to the heater, so it mounts on the gimbaled stove to use while underway. (The unit shuts off if tipped). The Origo is hard to beat... just open the top and light... with our new heater, just turn on fuel and hit the red button.... Life is good! Cheers, dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mullernoel Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stove options for our sailboats hello there all, so after my previous post of looking for options for my utilities on my old Cal 28, I seem to have worked out most of my bugs, except for what to do with my stinky old kerosene heater and stove, I got some kerosene and new lines and tried them both out on the weekend, neither would prime properly, so i was left dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling black smoke filling my cabin, not looking to repeat this in the future. I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated our house from old kerosene lamps, although much more concentrated and inescapable in my cramped cabin space, left me thinking there must be a better way, as i pulled both out, and began looking online for a solution, I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in there, not really liking the idea of propane.... so i leave it to the cal group: what is a cost/space/time effective way to have a few burners in my cal without asphyxiating or exploding myself? thanks again for your replies

Greetings from the Puget Sound, What you do for utilities is a function of how and where you use your boat. If you day sail and weekend her in moderate climes, then I agree that and Origo and small propane heater will be a sufficient and cost effective way to go. In the Sound, with a year round water temperature in the 50's and some long rainy days and nights in every season, I have found a little more "horsepower" to be in order. When I converted Nemesis from pressure alchohol, to propane about 10 years ago, my friendly local consignment shop wouldn't even take the Shipmate stove/oven because of the liability involved. My setup includes a 10# propane bottle in a manufactured locker which I mounted behind my Lazerette, and independent "home runs" to a gimballed two burner stove in the galley and a Dickinson Newport heater on the bulkhead at the front of the salon. Since the heater draws outside air, and exhausts overboard, I have no buildup of moisture from combustion there. During mild weather I never run it more than it's lowest consumption, and during the winter I can warm the interior no matter what the weather. The galley stove does contribute to moisture, so I leave the companionway hatch ajar when using it. I find that with a pressure cooker I can cook most of what I would do in an oven at home. The propane locker is sealed and drains overboard through the transom. The next time I have money for this system will switch out to one of the newer fiberglass propane bottles. Propane consumption is almost negligible Your results may vary, Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma On Mar 2, 2008, at 9:20 PM, mullernoel wrote: >

mullernoel wrote: > > > I seem to have worked out most of my > bugs, except for what to do with my > stinky old kerosene heater and stove, > > > neither would prime properly, so i was left > dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling > black smoke filling my cabin, > > > I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated > our house from old kerosene lamps, > > I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in > there, not really liking the idea of propane.... > All of the fuels seem to have some disadvantages, but all can be used safely too. I've never used kerosene on a boat but suspect that it can be used if the equipment is set up carefully. Propane has a pretty good safety record on boats, especially when used with an external tank with proper venting and solenoid valve. We use a sea-swing type propane stove on the local schooner. It has its own little camping-stove style propane tank under the burner. I'll never forget when we were having some trouble with it. I was on deck when the captain came flying up the companionway holding that tank in his gloved hand, spewing liquid & gas propane. He pitched that thing almost out of sight. Luckily, we ban smoking and had no other ignition sources on the boat. But that incident was an anomaly. Same problems can arise with pressurized Coleman stoves. They can be balky, and their vapors are heavier than air, but if well maintained and used with care, you'll probably have no problem. The fuel is relatively inexpensive, widely available, and had a high heat content (compared with alcohol). Maybe the best advice is to rule out fuels you can't abide (kerosene, because of the odor) and then consider what is readily available locally and what stove you can afford. Chris Campbell

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > I use an old propane camp stove, in my CAL25. It works really well, and I am able to take it up on deck to keep from heating the cabin in warm weather. Sure it is not very high tech but, and I have to be careful with the propane for it's heaver than air qualities, but I am careful and if I wanted high tech I would enjoy power boats more. Anyway, I keep it simple, enjoy, and may a steady 10 to 15 knot keep you sailing for many years to come.> > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of mullernoel > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:21 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stove options for our sailboats > > > > hello there all, > > so after my previous post of looking > for options for my utilities on my old Cal 28, > > I seem to have worked out most of my > bugs, except for what to do with my > stinky old kerosene heater and stove, > > I got some kerosene and new lines and tried > them both out on the weekend, > > neither would prime properly, so i was left > dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling > black smoke filling my cabin, > > not looking to repeat this in the future. > > I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated > our house from old kerosene lamps, although much more > concentrated and inescapable in my cramped cabin space, > > left me thinking there must be a better way, > as i pulled both out, and began looking online > for a solution, > > I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in > there, not really liking the idea of propane.... > > so i leave it to the cal group: > > what is a cost/space/time effective way to have a few > burners in my cal without asphyxiating or exploding myself? > > thanks again for your replies >

hello everyone, thanks for your awesome replies, I, like fred, am in the temperate rainforest, although, where I'm from, we don't call it the 'northwest', it's the 'south coast', so for us, it is mild, I'm going north from there.... I have heard many horror stories about propane in your cabin, so I've been trying to avoid it, propane + enclosed spaces = trouble, i'll save it for my deck bbq, in open air, you can smoke next to a venting tank.....don't ask how i know this as far as alchohol, i assume it's drawbacks are low BTUs and high price? other than that it appears to be the safest, I do like the sounds of this alchohol option, someone had mentioned to me that Naptha stoves produce too much carbon monoxide to be tolerable in a sailboat cabin, but wouldn't all fuels do that? I've used the naptha colemans in a (land) cabin, and they worked real well, couple pumps, and nice hot blue flame...minimal odor, as far as kerosene, it's main drawback is the smell it appears, other than that, it is a cheap, simple fuel..... I do have a gimbled kerosene stove and nice heater, maybe a replacement of the burners, and a try of the blowtorch priming method timmothy reccomended is in order.... On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Rick King <an… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, < > timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > > > I use an old propane camp stove, in my CAL25. It works really well, > and I am able to take it up on deck to keep from heating the cabin in > warm weather. > Sure it is not very high tech but, and I have to be careful with the > propane for it's heaver than air qualities, but I am careful and if I > wanted high tech I would enjoy power boats more. > Anyway, I keep it simple, enjoy, and may a steady 10 to 15 knot keep > you sailing for many years to come.> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of mullernoel > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:21 PM > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stove options for our sailboats > > > > > > > > hello there all, > > > > so after my previous post of looking > > for options for my utilities on my old Cal 28, > > > > I seem to have worked out most of my > > bugs, except for what to do with my > > stinky old kerosene heater and stove, > > > > I got some kerosene and new lines and tried > > them both out on the weekend, > > > > neither would prime properly, so i was left > > dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling > > black smoke filling my cabin, > > > > not looking to repeat this in the future. > > > > I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated > > our house from old kerosene lamps, although much more > > concentrated and inescapable in my cramped cabin space, > > > > left me thinking there must be a better way, > > as i pulled both out, and began looking online > > for a solution, > > > > I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in > > there, not really liking the idea of propane.... > > > > so i leave it to the cal group: > > > > what is a cost/space/time effective way to have a few > > burners in my cal without asphyxiating or exploding myself? > > > > thanks again for your replies > > > > >

For me, gasoline - naphtha is an absolute no-no. Alcohol is commonly used because water will put it out, Water will not put out a gasoline - naphtha fire. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noel Muller Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:35 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stove options for our sailboats hello everyone, thanks for your awesome replies, I, like fred, am in the temperate rainforest, although, where I'm from, we don't call it the 'northwest', it's the 'south coast', so for us, it is mild, I'm going north from there.... I have heard many horror stories about propane in your cabin, so I've been trying to avoid it, propane + enclosed spaces = trouble, i'll save it for my deck bbq, in open air, you can smoke next to a venting tank.....don't ask how i know this as far as alchohol, i assume it's drawbacks are low BTUs and high price? other than that it appears to be the safest, I do like the sounds of this alchohol option, someone had mentioned to me that Naptha stoves produce too much carbon monoxide to be tolerable in a sailboat cabin, but wouldn't all fuels do that? I've used the naptha colemans in a (land) cabin, and they worked real well, couple pumps, and nice hot blue flame...minimal odor, as far as kerosene, it's main drawback is the smell it appears, other than that, it is a cheap, simple fuel..... I do have a gimbled kerosene stove and nice heater, maybe a replacement of the burners, and a try of the blowtorch priming method timmothy reccomended is in order.... On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Rick King <an… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:an… [at] yahoo.com> > wrote: --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > I use an old propane camp stove, in my CAL25. It works really well, and I am able to take it up on deck to keep from heating the cabin in warm weather. Sure it is not very high tech but, and I have to be careful with the propane for it's heaver than air qualities, but I am careful and if I wanted high tech I would enjoy power boats more. Anyway, I keep it simple, enjoy, and may a steady 10 to 15 knot keep you sailing for many years to come.> > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of mullernoel > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:21 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Stove options for our sailboats > > > > hello there all, > > so after my previous post of looking > for options for my utilities on my old Cal 28, > > I seem to have worked out most of my > bugs, except for what to do with my > stinky old kerosene heater and stove, > > I got some kerosene and new lines and tried > them both out on the weekend, > > neither would prime properly, so i was left > dealing with a major fire show, and some gritty smelling > black smoke filling my cabin, > > not looking to repeat this in the future. > > I was reminded of the smell of kerosene which permiated > our house from old kerosene lamps, although much more > concentrated and inescapable in my cramped cabin space, > > left me thinking there must be a better way, > as i pulled both out, and began looking online > for a solution, > > I pondered just putting a 3-burner naptha coleman in > there, not really liking the idea of propane.... > > so i leave it to the cal group: > > what is a cost/space/time effective way to have a few > burners in my cal without asphyxiating or exploding myself? > > thanks again for your replies >

ti… [at] ch2m.com wrote: > > For me, gasoline - naphtha is an absolute no-no. > > Alcohol is commonly used because water will put it out, Water will not > put out a gasoline - naphtha fire. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ** Well, this is the old line, and it's why I have a pressurized alcohol stove in my other boat. But alcohol has a flame that's sometimes barely visible, or completely invisible; plus it has a sickly-sweet odor when burning; plus it has low heat content as compared with the other fuels. While theoretically water will extinguish the alcohol flame, you've first got to see the damned thing. I've used gas camping stoves when camping, and they've always been dependable. The same, really, with propane camping stoves. For both of them, the key to safety is storing the fuel in a proper (vented overboard) location when not in use, and also making sure that you maintain them properly. Then you never have to worry about extinguishing a fire except by turning the knob to "off." The marine propane stoves with a proper installation and a functioning solenoid valve seem to be very satisfactory, plus they cook very well and without odd odors. My initial position was my usual reactionary one to new things: "not as good as the old way." But about 90% of the time I turn out to be wrong on that, so I've learned to at least be willing to admit to having been wrong, or preferably to keep my mouth shut initially so I can change my mind without anybody noticing. Marine cooking falls into that area in which my initial response seems to have been unjustified. I just don't hear reports of boats blowing up from propane. On the other hand, post an inquiry about a balky alcohol stove and you'll get lots of tales about alcohol misbehavior (note that I didn't say "alcoholic misbehavior"). By the way, in that 10% of the instances where I'm right, we'll find things like MP3 digital recording and a few other things that would inflame some readers so I'll keep my mouth shut. Chris Campbell

When you play with fire, expect...... From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:04 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Stove options for our sailboats ti… [at] ch2m.com <mailto:ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: For me, gasoline - naphtha is an absolute no-no. Alcohol is commonly used because water will put it out, Water will not put out a gasoline - naphtha fire. Well, this is the old line, and it's why I have a pressurized alcohol stove in my other boat. But alcohol has a flame that's sometimes barely visible, or completely invisible; plus it has a sickly-sweet odor when burning; plus it has low heat content as compared with the other fuels. While theoretically water will extinguish the alcohol flame, you've first got to see the damned thing. I've used gas camping stoves when camping, and they've always been dependable. The same, really, with propane camping stoves. For both of them, the key to safety is storing the fuel in a proper (vented overboard) location when not in use, and also making sure that you maintain them properly. Then you never have to worry about extinguishing a fire except by turning the knob to "off." The marine propane stoves with a proper installation and a functioning solenoid valve seem to be very satisfactory, plus they cook very well and without odd odors. My initial position was my usual reactionary one to new things: "not as good as the old way." But about 90% of the time I turn out to be wrong on that, so I've learned to at least be willing to admit to having been wrong, or preferably to keep my mouth shut initially so I can change my mind without anybody noticing. Marine cooking falls into that area in which my initial response seems to have been unjustified. I just don't hear reports of boats blowing up from propane. On the other hand, post an inquiry about a balky alcohol stove and you'll get lots of tales about alcohol misbehavior (note that I didn't say "alcoholic misbehavior"). By the way, in that 10% of the instances where I'm right, we'll find things like MP3 digital recording and a few other things that would inflame some readers so I'll keep my mouth shut. Chris Campbell

I have switched to an Origo 2 burner stove as well. My Princess pressurized stove blew the o ring and sprayed alcohol out and down the inside of my cabinet. When I got the fire out, I was sitting outside and wondering why smoke kept coming out of the cabin. When I opened the cabinet, it was full of blue flames. I like the Origo, AND on one of the overnite races I do, the boat has an Origo stove and oven. It is really simple. We heat up our bread, warm Lasagna or what ever people cook for us to eat. Nothing like 45 kts of cold wind outside and you are eating a hot plate of Lasagna with hot garlic bread. For the heater, I have the Force 10 diesel/kerosene heater in my boat. It is vented thru the top. The tank is in the lazerette. You pump it up with a bicycle pump or you can get a 15 psi fuel pump. I pump mine by hand. It raises my cabin temp 10-15 degrees or so. Not much, put on a comfy sweater and I can get by. I liked it for the weight savings. BUT, it works fine for a while and then it gets picky. I pretty much use diesel fuels now, so I have a carbon problem most of the time. You clean it out and sometimes it works for a week and sometimes it works for a couple of years. I just rebuilt it again and so far I am happy on those low 40 degree nights. The secret to getting it going is like Timm has said, when I am at the islands I use the torch to get things nice and hot. Puuf! and it lights no smoke. At the dock I use the alcohol. Sometimes it does not get it hot enough at times and it smokes up my cabin top. Not easy to clean. I would not install my heater in the next boat. You can NOT fall asleep with it running. If the pressure drops, it smokes up and stains the cabin top and bulk heads, AND the inside of your nose and throat. I read Hal Roth's, Sailing Around The World and he recommended a heater but I am not around my book so I can't remember it. I recall he threw 2 or 3 Dickensons overboard before he settled on his latest. Shame, I would of went with the Dickenson's. The heater I liked the most was on Kurt's, CAL 39. It was like one in your home. It had a blower and thermostat. If it got colder, you turned up the thermostat and look out. You were warmer. Sometimes to warm, you could fall a sleep after you came in from the cold. Randy CAL 2-29 Out Patient --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Randy Alcorn wrote: > > For the heater, I have the Force 10 diesel/kerosene heater in my boat. > It is vented thru the top. The tank is in the lazerette. You pump it > up with a bicycle pump or you can get a 15 psi fuel pump. I pump mine > by hand. It raises my cabin temp 10-15 degrees or so. Not much, put > on a comfy sweater and I can get by. > > > I would not install my heater in the next boat. You can NOT fall > asleep with it running. If the pressure drops, it smokes up and stains > the cabin top and bulk heads, AND the inside of your nose and throat. Couldn't you add a second tank just for air, connected to the first, to give you more air volume and a longer time under pressure? Or how about some sort of low pressure cutoff switch? Chris Campbell >