Re: [Cal_Boats] Freezing Spirits - compass - rebuilds

Hi Chris: I think that you got it right about the fluid being under pressure and therefore holding the gas phase in solution, as well as the fact that the solubility constant (Ksp) for most gasses increases as the water temperature decreases (Charle Law or Boyles Law???)...However, I don't think you have it right on the boiling water....When the water gets to 212 degrees it changes phase from a liquid to a gas and the bubbles are steam not oxygen. This is more science than I have thought about since I got my biology degree in 197........8. Les Hester Bay Breeze 3-29#1005 Swan Creek, Md. From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Wilkie wrote: So Odorless Mineral Spirits is the bomb for sure, but an additional tip is to keep the can in your freezer for 24 hours before you fill the compass and replace all of the thinner instead of just topping it off. Then-- when you discover that no matter how hard you try with your little syringe you just can't fill it enough to avoid that last little bubble -- it's no problem. As the freezing cold mineral spirits warm up, it assimilates the oxygen in the bubble and it will disappear forever. You guys keep challenging my very tenuous grasp of chemistry and physics here, but it's my understanding that water, at least, holds more dissolved oxygen when cold than when hot (what happens when you heat water in a pan?--the oxygen comes out of solution and forms bubbles--same with the bottle of pop or beer as it warms up). I wonder if what's really going on is that the dissolved gas is under higher pressure because the fluid is under higher pressure as it warms up and expands. Higher pressure means it has less tendency to come out of solution. Again, look at what happens when you pop the cap on pop or beer containers--you get a puff of gas, pressure drops, bubbles form. Chris Campbell

ld… [at] comcast.net wrote: > > However, I don't think you have it right on the boiling water....When > the water gets to 212 degrees it changes phase from a liquid to a gas > and the bubbles are steam not oxygen. As soon as you start warming water, oxygen starts coming out of solution, long before it reaches or approaches the boiling point. I think that part is attributable to the increasing temp and decreasing capacity of the liquid to hold the dissolved oxygen. And my last formal science class involving these things was in 1965, so reliance on my hypotheses may not be warranted. I'm not proud of that, and have tried to keep learning, so that's why these discussions are fun--especially for those of us whose boats go on the hard seasonally. Chris Campbell >

Les, I did not know about your biology degree. Can you come over and tell me what it is that is growing on the bottom of my boat? Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ld… [at] comcast.net Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 4:20 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Freezing Spirits - compass - rebuilds Hi Chris: I think that you got it right about the fluid being under pressure and therefore holding the gas phase in solution, as well as the fact that the solubility constant (Ksp) for most gasses increases as the water temperature decreases (Charle Law or Boyles Law???)...However, I don't think you have it right on the boiling water....When the water gets to 212 degrees it changes phase from a liquid to a gas and the bubbles are steam not oxygen. This is more science than I have thought about since I got my biology degree in 197........8. Les Hester Bay Breeze 3-29#1005 Swan Creek, Md. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Wilkie wrote: So Odorless Mineral Spirits is the bomb for sure, but an additional tip is to keep the can in your freezer for 24 hours before you fill the compass and replace all of the thinner instead of just topping it off. Then-- when you discover that no matter how hard you try with your little syringe you just can't fill it enough to avoid that last little bubble -- it's no problem. As the freezing cold mineral spirits warm up, it assimilates the oxygen in the bubble and it will disappear forever. You guys keep challenging my very tenuous grasp of chemistry and physics here, but it's my understanding that water, at least, holds more dissolved oxygen when cold than when hot (what happens when you heat water in a pan?--the oxygen comes out of solution and forms bubbles--same with the bottle of pop or beer as it warms up). I wonder if what's really going on is that the dissolved gas is under higher pressure because the fluid is under higher pressure as it warms up and expands. Higher pressure means it has less tendency to come out of solution. Again, look at what happens when you pop the cap on pop or beer containers--you get a puff of gas, pressure drops, bubbles form. Chris Campbell

Chris, We know that carbonated water loses it's fizz a lot faster when it is warm, so that makes sense. Fish metabolize oxygenated water. We know coral die when the water gets too warm. We know the polar regions teem with krill. Interesting. Jerry, Cal 24 #71 Shpritz --- On Thu, 3/13/08, Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> wrote: From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Freezing Spirits - compass - rebuilds To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 13, 2008, 1:45 PM ldh9@comcast. net wrote: However, I don't think you have it right on the boiling water....When the water gets to 212 degrees it changes phase from a liquid to a gas and the bubbles are steam not oxygen. As soon as you start warming water, oxygen starts coming out of solution, long before it reaches or approaches the boiling point. I think that part is attributable to the increasing temp and decreasing capacity of the liquid to hold the dissolved oxygen. And my last formal science class involving these things was in 1965, so reliance on my hypotheses may not be warranted. I'm not proud of that, and have tried to keep learning, so that's why these discussions are fun--especially for those of us whose boats go on the hard seasonally. Chris Campbell