Mariposa, reply from Alan Andrews

Mariposa----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa Fin, Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient transverse structure to keep the keel from wobbling. The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as what the flex in the hull does over time. Some Cal-25's have added transverse floor timbers under the cabin sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, this is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is the fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside of the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is that the work is inside the boat and therefore could be done with the boat in the water (if the neighbors don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the right people in Santa Barbara to help him. Alan Andrews Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. 259 Marina Dr. Long Beach, CA 90803 USA Tel. +1 562-594-9189 Mobile +1 714-264-9748 Fax +1 562-596-1859 E-mail al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> Web http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa Alan ... Please take a quick look at the letter below. David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a Cal-29. Without offering professional advice to him, would you feel comfortable telling me how concerned you think he should he be by what he is seeing ? Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that might be able to help him ? Thanks, Fin. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Wilkie Owen<mailto:wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> To: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> ; Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> ; Roger Jones<mailto:ro… [at] nvsailing.org> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa Hello my good Cal friends. I am sitting in the boat yard with Mariposa on stands and really stressing about the integrity of the hull. The keel was visibly wobbling when we pulled her out of the water. We tested it by hand - putting side to side motion and you could absolutely see the hull flexing up and down at either side of the keel as it wobbled back and forth. There is a 3" stripe of bottom paint that has popped off on both sides of the keel where it curves up into the bottom of the boat. The yard wasn't too alarmed, and pointed out to me that there is no cracking. They said that older boats show cracks and you can trace the salt water seeping out of them. They even showed me an older hull with those kind of cracks. That was little comfort to me. We discussed grinding down the hull to the glass and adding some reinforcement to the exterior as it wraps up from the keel to the flat surfaces of the bottom. They also talked about taking up the cabin sole and adding some floors - A stronger but messier solution. I would lose some headroom in that process, unless we added a couple of floors tunnels and left the deck low in between. This is an item of huge concern to me. I cross the Santa Barbara channel in all kinds of weather and race her weekly, sometimes in large seas. Obviously, I don't trust the way this keel looks and am wondering if any you have had a similar concern with your boat. I have already invested a ridiculous amount of time and money put into my beloved Mariposa, which I understand is gone, but how much more do I put in. I have to feel safe at sea..... Any ideas or experiences are appreciated. Wilkie

Any idea what production number determines "early?" Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck paint job is beautiful, I am completing the below the waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, thus there were several blisters. Since she has been on my trailer since about October '07, she was pretty dried out. I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my die grinder and a burr head, then filled with West Systems epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing fill. I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then red West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. I will post pix when complete. Tom Vandiver --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > Fin, > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > transverse structure to keep the keel from wobbling. > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as what > the flex in the hull does over time. Some Cal-25's > have added transverse floor timbers under the cabin > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, this > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is the > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside of > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > that the work is inside the boat and therefore could > be done with the boat in the water (if the neighbors > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the right > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > Alan Andrews > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > 259 Marina Dr. > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > USA > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > E-mail > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > Web > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > Alan ... > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > Cal-29. > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, would > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned you > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > might be able to help him ? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fin. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Wilkie > Owen<mailto:wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> > > To: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> ; > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > ; Roger Jones<mailto:ro… [at] nvsailing.org> > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:16 PM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > Hello my good Cal friends. I am sitting in the > boat yard with Mariposa on stands and really > stressing about the integrity of the hull. The keel > was visibly wobbling when we pulled her out of the > water. We tested it by hand - putting side to side > motion and you could absolutely see the hull flexing > up and down at either side of the keel as it wobbled > back and forth. There is a 3" stripe of bottom > paint that has popped off on both sides of the keel > where it curves up into the bottom of the boat. > > The yard wasn't too alarmed, and pointed out to me > that there is no cracking. They said that older > boats show cracks and you can trace the salt water > seeping out of them. They even showed me an older > hull with those kind of cracks. That was little > comfort to me. We discussed grinding down the hull > to the glass and adding some reinforcement to the > exterior as it wraps up from the keel to the flat > surfaces of the bottom. > > They also talked about taking up the cabin sole > and adding some floors - A stronger but messier > solution. I would lose some headroom in that > process, unless we added a couple of floors tunnels > and left the deck low in between. > > This is an item of huge concern to me. I cross > the Santa Barbara channel in all kinds of weather > and race her weekly, sometimes in large seas. > Obviously, I don't trust the way this keel looks and > am wondering if any you have had a similar concern > with your boat. > > I have already invested a ridiculous amount of > time and money put into my beloved Mariposa, which I > understand is gone, but how much more do I put in. > I have to feel safe at sea..... > > Any ideas or experiences are appreciated. > > Wilkie >

For what its worth, I was told by a former boat yard guru who is now on his own that he would not use 410 below the water line and use 407 instead. Apparently the 410 can absorb water according to him. I'll have to double check the 407?number but it is a dark red color and lightweight like the 410. Paul West Cal 39 Adventure Kwest From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Define "early" in Cal 25's Any idea what production number determines "early?" Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck paint job is beautiful, I am completing the below the waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, thus there were several blisters. Since she has been on my trailer since about October '07, she was pretty dried out. I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my die grinder and a burr head, then filled with West Systems epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing fill. I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then red West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. I will post pix when complete. Tom Vandiver --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > Fin, > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > transverse structure to keep the keel from wobbling. > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as what > the flex in the hull does over time. Some Cal-25's > have added transverse floor timbers under the cabin > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, this > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is the > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside of > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > that the work is inside the boat and therefore could > be done with the boat in the water (if the neighbors > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the right > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > Alan Andrews > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > 259 Marina Dr. > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > USA > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > E-mail > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > Web > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > Alan ... > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > Cal-29. > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, would > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned you > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > might be able to help him ? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fin. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Wilkie > Owen<mailto:wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> > > To: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> ; > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > ; Roger Jones<mailto:ro… [at] nvsailing.org> > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:16 PM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > Hello my good Cal friends. I am sitting in the > boat yard with Mariposa on stands and really > stressing about the integrity of the hull. The keel > was visibly wobbling when we pulled her out of the > water. We tested it by hand - putting side to side > motion and you could absolutely see the hull flexing > up and down at either side of the keel as it wobbled > back and forth. There is a 3" stripe of bottom > paint that has popped off on both sides of the keel > where it curves up into the bottom of the boat. > > The yard wasn't too alarmed, and pointed out to me > that there is no cracking. They said that older > boats show cracks and you can trace the salt water > seeping out of them. They even showed me an older > hull with those kind of cracks. That was little > comfort to me. We discussed grinding down the hull > to the glass and adding some reinforcement to the > exterior as it wraps up from the keel to the flat > surfaces of the bottom. > > They also talked about taking up the cabin sole > and adding some floors - A stronger but messier > solution. I would lose some headroom in that > process, unless we added a couple of floors tunnels > and left the deck low in between. > > This is an item of huge concern to me. I cross > the Santa Barbara channel in all kinds of weather > and race her weekly, sometimes in large seas. > Obviously, I don't trust the way this keel looks and > am wondering if any you have had a similar concern > with your boat. > > I have already invested a ridiculous amount of > time and money put into my beloved Mariposa, which I > understand is gone, but how much more do I put in. > I have to feel safe at sea..... > > Any ideas or experiences are appreciated. > > Wilkie >

I used 410 as the fairing filler when we did the bottom job on Satori, our Cal 46 in 1995. In past haul outs< she looked okay. No apparent problems???? The leading edge of the rudder on our Cal 25 was sort of used hard, so I used 406 as the first first fill, then 407 second and then 410 as the final fairing filler. She goes back into the water next week. So when the first named storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, she goes back on the trailer and I will report. Tom Vandiver --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > For what its worth, I was told by a former boat yard > guru who is now on his own that he would not use 410 > below the water line and use 407 instead. Apparently > the 410 can absorb water according to him. > > I'll have to double check the 407?number but it is a > dark red color and lightweight like the 410. > > Paul West > Cal 39 > Adventure Kwest > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 3:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Define "early" in Cal 25's > > > > > > > Any idea what production number determines "early?" > Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck paint > job is beautiful, I am completing the below the > waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, > thus there were several blisters. Since she has been > on my trailer since about October '07, she was > pretty > dried out. > > I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my die > grinder and a burr head, then filled with West > Systems > epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing > fill. > I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then > red > West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. > > I will post pix when complete. > > Tom Vandiver > --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > > > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > Fin, > > > > > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > > transverse structure to keep the keel from > wobbling. > > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as what > > the flex in the hull does over time. Some Cal-25's > > have added transverse floor timbers under the > cabin > > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, this > > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is > the > > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside of > > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > > that the work is inside the boat and therefore > could > > be done with the boat in the water (if the > neighbors > > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the right > > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > > > > > Alan Andrews > > > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > > > 259 Marina Dr. > > > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > > > USA > > > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > > > E-mail > > > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > Web > > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > Alan ... > > > > > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > > Cal-29. > > > > > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, would > > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned you > > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > > might be able to help him ? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Fin. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: David Wilkie > > Owen<mailto:wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> > > > > To: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> ; > > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > ; Roger Jones<mailto:ro… [at] nvsailing.org> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:16 PM > > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello my good Cal friends. I am sitting in the > > boat yard with Mariposa on stands and really > > stressing about the integrity of the hull. The > keel > > was visibly wobbling when we pulled her out of the > > water. We tested it by hand - putting side to side > > motion and you could absolutely see the hull > flexing > > up and down at either side of the keel as it > wobbled > > back and forth. There is a 3" stripe of bottom > > paint that has popped off on both sides of the > keel > > where it curves up into the bottom of the boat. > > > > The yard wasn't too alarmed, and pointed out to me > > that there is no cracking. They said that older > > boats show cracks and you can trace the salt water > > seeping out of them. They even showed me an older > > hull with those kind of cracks. That was little > > comfort to me. We discussed grinding down the hull > > to the glass and adding some reinforcement to the > > exterior as it wraps up from the keel to the flat > > surfaces of the bottom. > > > > They also talked about taking up the cabin sole > > and adding some floors - A stronger but messier > > solution. I would lose some headroom in that > > process, unless we added a couple of floors > tunnels > > and left the deck low in between. > > > === message truncated ===

Yeah, I refaired most of the keel of my old?CS 30?with?410 as well before I was told this.? It didn't appear to have any issues after one season but it is on the hard now waiting for a buyer. I didn't take any chances this time and went with 407 just in case. Paul From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 4:35 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] West Systems was Define "early" in Cal 25's I used 410 as the fairing filler when we did the bottom job on Satori, our Cal 46 in 1995. In past haul outs< she looked okay. No apparent problems???? The leading edge of the rudder on our Cal 25 was sort of used hard, so I used 406 as the first first fill, then 407 second and then 410 as the final fairing filler. She goes back into the water next week. So when the first named storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, she goes back on the trailer and I will report. Tom Vandiver --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > For what its worth, I was told by a former boat yard > guru who is now on his own that he would not use 410 > below the water line and use 407 instead. Apparently > the 410 can absorb water according to him. > > I'll have to double check the 407?number but it is a > dark red color and lightweight like the 410. > > Paul West > Cal 39 > Adventure Kwest > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 3:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Define "early" in Cal 25's > > > > > > > Any idea what production number determines "early?" > Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck paint > job is beautiful, I am completing the below the > waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, > thus there were several blisters. Since she has been > on my trailer since about October '07, she was > pretty > dried out. > > I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my die > grinder and a burr head, then filled with West > Systems > epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing > fill. > I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then > red > West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. > > I will post pix when complete. > > Tom Vandiver > --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > > > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > Fin, > > > > > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > > transverse structure to keep the keel from > wobbling. > > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as what > > the flex in the hull does over time. Some Cal-25's > > have added transverse floor timbers under the > cabin > > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, this > > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is > the > > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside of > > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > > that the work is inside the boat and therefore > could > > be done with the boat in the water (if the > neighbors > > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the right > > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > > > > > Alan Andrews > > > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > > > 259 Marina Dr. > > > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > > > USA > > > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > > > E-mail > > > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > Web > > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > Alan ... > > > > > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > > Cal-29. > > > > > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, would > > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned you > > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > > might be able to help him ? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Fin. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: David Wilkie > > Owen<mailto:wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> > > > > To: Alfred Poor<mailto:ap… [at] bellatlantic.net> ; > > > Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > ; Roger Jones<mailto:ro… [at] nvsailing.org> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:16 PM > > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello my good Cal friends. I am sitting in the > > boat yard with Mariposa on stands and really > > stressing about the integrity of the hull. The > keel > > was visibly wobbling when we pulled her out of the > > water. We tested it by hand - putting side to side > > motion and you could absolutely see the hull > flexing > > up and down at either side of the keel as it > wobbled > > back and forth. There is a 3" stripe of bottom > > paint that has popped off on both sides of the > keel > > where it curves up into the bottom of the boat. > > > > The yard wasn't too alarmed, and pointed out to me > > that there is no cracking. They said that older > > boats show cracks and you can trace the salt water > > seeping out of them. They even showed me an older > > hull with those kind of cracks. That was little > > comfort to me. We discussed grinding down the hull > > to the glass and adding some reinforcement to the > > exterior as it wraps up from the keel to the flat > > surfaces of the bottom. > > > > They also talked about taking up the cabin sole > > and adding some floors - A stronger but messier > > solution. I would lose some headroom in that > > process, unless we added a couple of floors > tunnels > > and left the deck low in between. > > > === message truncated ===

Thanks Paul, In all my attempts I have always followed up the fairing/filling with an epoxy barrier coat, which is alledgely a total water barrier. I will ask the experts, Gougeon Bros. who make West systems epoxy. Tom --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > Yeah, I refaired most of the keel of my old?CS > 30?with?410 as well before I was told this.? It > didn't appear to have any issues after one season > but it is on the hard now waiting for a buyer. > > I didn't take any chances this time and went with > 407 just in case. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 4:35 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] West Systems was Define > "early" in Cal 25's > > > > > > > I used 410 as the fairing filler when we did the > bottom job on Satori, our Cal 46 in 1995. In past > haul > outs< she looked okay. No apparent problems???? > > The leading edge of the rudder on our Cal 25 was > sort > of used hard, so I used 406 as the first first fill, > then 407 second and then 410 as the final fairing > filler. > > She goes back into the water next week. So when the > first named storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, she > goes > back on the trailer and I will report. > > Tom Vandiver > --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > For what its worth, I was told by a former boat > yard > > guru who is now on his own that he would not use > 410 > > below the water line and use 407 instead. > Apparently > > the 410 can absorb water according to him. > > > > I'll have to double check the 407?number but it is > a > > dark red color and lightweight like the 410. > > > > Paul West > > Cal 39 > > Adventure Kwest > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 3:37 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Define "early" in Cal > 25's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any idea what production number determines > "early?" > > Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck > paint > > job is beautiful, I am completing the below the > > waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, > > thus there were several blisters. Since she has > been > > on my trailer since about October '07, she was > > pretty > > dried out. > > > > I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my > die > > grinder and a burr head, then filled with West > > Systems > > epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing > > fill. > > I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then > > red > > West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. > > > > I will post pix when complete. > > > > Tom Vandiver > > --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > > > > > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > Fin, > > > > > > > > > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > > > transverse structure to keep the keel from > > wobbling. > > > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as > what > > > the flex in the hull does over time. Some > Cal-25's > > > have added transverse floor timbers under the > > cabin > > > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, > this > > > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is > > the > > > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside > of > > > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > > > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > > > that the work is inside the boat and therefore > > could > > > be done with the boat in the water (if the > > neighbors > > > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the > right > > > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Andrews > > > > > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > > > > > 259 Marina Dr. > > > > > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > > > > > USA > > > > > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > > > > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > > > > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > > > > > E-mail > > > > > > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > > > Web > > > > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > > > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > > > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > > > > > > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > > > Cal-29. > > > > > > > > > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, > would > > > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned > you > > > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > > > might be able to help him ? > > > > > > > === message truncated ===

I am going to apply my first coat of Pettit 4700 tonight and apply 3 or 4 coats total prior to applying the Vivid White.? Having never done this should I sand my last coat of Barrier coat before applying the Vivid or will?the?Vivid fill in?and level the?barrier coat?? I'm looking to get as close to a race bottom as my time and energy allow. Someone on the list was about to apply Vivid White the other day.? I wonder how they made out. Thanks - Paul From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] West Systems was Define "early" in Cal 25's Thanks Paul, In all my attempts I have always followed up the fairing/filling with an epoxy barrier coat, which is alledgely a total water barrier. I will ask the experts, Gougeon Bros. who make West systems epoxy. Tom --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > Yeah, I refaired most of the keel of my old?CS > 30?with?410 as well before I was told this.? It > didn't appear to have any issues after one season > but it is on the hard now waiting for a buyer. > > I didn't take any chances this time and went with > 407 just in case. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 4:35 pm > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] West Systems was Define > "early" in Cal 25's > > > > > > > I used 410 as the fairing filler when we did the > bottom job on Satori, our Cal 46 in 1995. In past > haul > outs< she looked okay. No apparent problems???? > > The leading edge of the rudder on our Cal 25 was > sort > of used hard, so I used 406 as the first first fill, > then 407 second and then 410 as the final fairing > filler. > > She goes back into the water next week. So when the > first named storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, she > goes > back on the trailer and I will report. > > Tom Vandiver > --- pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > For what its worth, I was told by a former boat > yard > > guru who is now on his own that he would not use > 410 > > below the water line and use 407 instead. > Apparently > > the 410 can absorb water according to him. > > > > I'll have to double check the 407?number but it is > a > > dark red color and lightweight like the 410. > > > > Paul West > > Cal 39 > > Adventure Kwest > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Vandiver <bs… [at] yahoo.com> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 3:37 pm > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Define "early" in Cal > 25's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any idea what production number determines > "early?" > > Bravura is Cal 25 # 737. The topside and deck > paint > > job is beautiful, I am completing the below the > > waterline work. She had never been barrier coated, > > thus there were several blisters. Since she has > been > > on my trailer since about October '07, she was > > pretty > > dried out. > > > > I have sanded, drilled out the blisters with my > die > > grinder and a burr head, then filled with West > > Systems > > epoxy and 406, (first fill), then 410, (fairing > > fill. > > I am now building up Interlux 2000E, 5 coats. Then > > red > > West Marine CCP+, then final coat of blue. > > > > I will post pix when complete. > > > > Tom Vandiver > > --- Fin Beven <fi… [at] msn.com> wrote: > > > > > Mariposa----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Alan Andrews<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > To: 'Fin Beven'<mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:03 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > Fin, > > > > > > > > > > > > Many of the early boats didn't have sufficient > > > transverse structure to keep the keel from > > wobbling. > > > The wobbly keel isn't so much the concern as > what > > > the flex in the hull does over time. Some > Cal-25's > > > have added transverse floor timbers under the > > cabin > > > sole area to solve that problem. As he notes, > this > > > is an expensive job, but done correctly, that is > > the > > > fix for this. Adding more glass to the outside > of > > > the hull can repair any damaged laminate but is > > > unlikely to be a long term fix. The good news is > > > that the work is inside the boat and therefore > > could > > > be done with the boat in the water (if the > > neighbors > > > don't complain). I'm not acquainted with the > right > > > people in Santa Barbara to help him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Andrews > > > > > > Alan Andrews Yacht Design, Inc. > > > > > > 259 Marina Dr. > > > > > > Long Beach, CA 90803 > > > > > > USA > > > > > > Tel. +1 562-594-9189 > > > > > > Mobile +1 714-264-9748 > > > > > > Fax +1 562-596-1859 > > > > > > E-mail > > > > > > al… [at] andrewsyacht.com<mailto:al… [at] andrewsyacht.com> > > > > > > Web > > > > http://andrewsyacht.com<http://andrewsyacht.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Fin Beven [mailto:Fi… [at] MSN.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:58 AM > > > To: Boat_AlanAndrews.2004 > > > Subject: Fw: [Cal_Boats] Mariposa > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Please take a quick look at the letter below. > > > > > > > > > > > > David is a friend of mine, and his boat is a > > > Cal-29. > > > > > > > > > > > > Without offering professional advice to him, > would > > > you feel comfortable telling me how concerned > you > > > think he should he be by what he is seeing ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone in the Santa Barbara area that > > > might be able to help him ? > > > > > > > === message truncated ===