Cal 2-29 Rebuild

We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish it. As usual, the further I got into doing the little things, the more I found needed done. Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and sailing again. Here is a link to some pictures of it in various stages of the rebuild along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" replacement: http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, so if anyone is starting this project and needs more pictures or better detail, I may have just what they need. I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone finds something useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on his to be sure. This is my first eve boat project like this. Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie questions.

There were a few requests for this information, so I took the liberty of posting it. Roger Jones Roger JONES Roger Jones passed peacefully on June 2, 2008, following a brief illness. Roger was born in San Mateo, CA on May 23, 1943, and moved to Reno with his wife Lori in 1990. Roger was a talented man in so many areas. He developed several technologies for environmentally sound building materials during the last 10 years. Roger had a deep love and respect for the earth and concentrated his work efforts on ways to make the environment cleaner, better and safer for future generations. Roger leaves behind his wife Lori; daughters, K. C., Cindy and Wendy; 7 grandchildren; his Gordon Setters; mother, Barbara Jones, sister, Loriellen; brother, Bruce and many wonderful friends. He had a passion for and love of life and sailing and has left a remarkable legacy behind in Sierra Nevada Community Sailing. Heartfelt thanks go out to the friends who supported Roger and Lori through his illness. A memorial service is planned for Sunday, June 8, at 3 p.m. Please call 852-2320 for details and directions. In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to Sierra Nevada Community Sailing at P.O. Box 19655, Reno, NV 89511. Roger was the founder and inspiration behind Sierra Nevada Community Sailing (a.k.a. The Sagebrush Sailing Academy). For you, my love, fair winds and following seas. You were a great man, filled with kindness and compassion for your fellow man and for all of God's creatures. You will be so missed and in our hearts until we meet again at the Crest of the Trail.

David Wilkie Owen wrote: > > > There were a few requests for this information, so I took the liberty > of posting it. > * > Roger Jones * > *Roger > > JONES* > > Roger Jones passed peacefully on June 2, 2008, following a brief illness. > > He had a passion for and love of life and sailing.... > Cal sailors: I just searched my old messages for ones from Rog. In one off-list message to me, he said: But it seems sometimes we just take stuff too seriously and fail to have enough fun. To my way of looking at it, life should be squeezed like an orange until every last drop is out of it and it has been enjoyed to the fullest. From all appearances, he squeezed life's orange pretty thoroughly and extracted a lot of fun. I sure hope so. Chris Campbell Cal 20 #1220, Martha C

I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you used to cut the fiberglass pan? James Bibb Cal 2-29 Juneau, Alaska --- clausont <cl… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > it. As usual, the > further I got into doing the little things, the more > I found needed done. > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > sailing again. > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > stages of the rebuild > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > replacement: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > so if anyone is > starting this project and needs more pictures or > better detail, I may > have just what they need. > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > finds something > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > his to be sure. > This is my first eve boat project like this. > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > questions. > >

I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting burr which works well in the die grinder. I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. Thanks Tim --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> wrote: > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > James Bibb > Cal 2-29 > Juneau, Alaska > --- clausont <clausont@...> wrote: > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > it. As usual, the > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > I found needed done. > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > sailing again. > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > stages of the rebuild > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > replacement: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > so if anyone is > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > better detail, I may > > have just what they need. > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > finds something > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > his to be sure. > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > questions. > > > > >

Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of depression at the demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and attending to the mast now that it is off of the deck. I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a dremel tool. The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front berth....what was the extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment points for the front pan. All the best. James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "clausont" <clausont@...> wrote: > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > burr which works well in the die grinder. > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > Thanks > > Tim > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > James Bibb > > Cal 2-29 > > Juneau, Alaska > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > it. As usual, the > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > I found needed done. > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > sailing again. > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > stages of the rebuild > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > replacement: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > so if anyone is > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > better detail, I may > > > have just what they need. > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > finds something > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > his to be sure. > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > questions. > > > > > > > > >

James, I¹ll jump in with a bit of encouragement. It gets better fast once you pick up on the techniques. Unfortunately, I found that the proper tool usually made hours of difference in the work load. I say unfortunately, because they are really expensive. Maybe you can rent or borrow some stuff that you don¹t have. A 6² Bosch DA electric sander with Velcro sanding discs is a wonderful tool to own during a project like this. It will do orbital action or spin like a grinder. The 6² plate helps you keep sections flat as you work it from side to side holding it level. It creates a suction to pull loose material into a bag. I use a piece of bilge hose from the tool to a dust trap powered by a $20 shop vac (the shop vac won¹t last a day without the dust trap in front of it.) You can buy 40 or 60 grit discs, then go to 80 or 100 and it just really chews stuff up. I have attached a crude drawing of the dust trap. It¹s basically pretty much like Charlie¹s Bong. Experiment with the water level ­ you will have to dump water from the shop vac back into the trap from time to time. The standard shop vac hose and standard bilge hose are close to the same size. Use wraps of duct tape to adjust sized to match PVC pipe fittings from the box store. I used a ³T² fitting on mine so that a helper can run a second sander ‹ and cap it off with a loose fitting. I searched through my library of photos and have bunches to share, but nothing that adequately shows any beveling of glass. If I were to describe my technique; glue the piece of glass back in place even if you just butt the cut together with 5 minute epoxy. Take a 4² angle grinder with a heavy grit disc and just grind a ³dish² area a few inches wide with the deepest part right over your glued line. After all the grinding is done, clean it carefully ending with an acetone wipe. Start laying glass into the dish with the widest piece at the bottom and smaller pieces until you get it flush. You can come back after it¹s a little firmed up and swipe on your first fairing goop coat if you want to save a step. I assume you are using epoxy products ‹ you really MUST, in my opinion. Geougeon Brothers have a really complete guide that can be had free or close to it at your West Marine store, but all of the information is also online. Their West System epoxy is easy to work with, though you can buy cheaper. I have called them in a pinch and they are really good about advising you on their products. Here¹s their link: http://westsystem.com/frames/tier1/usingepoxy.htm Keep your chin up. Wilkie From: James Bibb <ja… [at] yahoo.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:40:08 -0000 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 2-29 Rebuild Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of depression at the demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and attending to the mast now that it is off of the deck. I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a dremel tool. The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front berth....what was the extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment points for the front pan. All the best. James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "clausont" <clausont@...> wrote: > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > burr which works well in the die grinder. > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > Thanks > > Tim > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > James Bibb > > Cal 2-29 > > Juneau, Alaska > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > it. As usual, the > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > I found needed done. > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > sailing again. > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > stages of the rebuild > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > replacement: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > so if anyone is > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > better detail, I may > > > have just what they need. > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > finds something > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > his to be sure. > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > questions. > > > > > > > > >

Thanks for jumping in here Wilkie. You have explained it better than I would have probably done. I will try to look through the hundreds of pictures I took in the project and find one or two to show the beveling. I like your technique better than mine I think. What I did was to take an angle grinder with a 36 grit disk on a backing pad and bevel it through the whole thickness until there was about 1/16" of material left on both edges. As I recall, I could only bevel it back about three inches on one edge. After carefully cleaning as you described, I reglassed it with multiple layers of glass cloth in wider and wider strips until I had built it up to nearly the original thickness and then faired it. I used Epiglass epoxy ( use this carefully as it goes off pretty fast). James - It may seem a daunting task to replace the beam, but don't despair - once you dive in, it goes pretty quickly. I did not do quite as much demo as Wilkie did since I didn't replace the main bulkheads. I was able to remove the front of the galley cabinet only in front of the ice box and removed the locker only by the main bulkhead on the port side. You can go as far as you want on the rebuild. I have to admit - my joinery work is a little less than "expert craftsman" quality. But I think it turned out pretty well. I will try to look up some pictures and put the links on here for you. Thanks, Tim --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen <wilkie@...> wrote: > > > > James, > > I¹ll jump in with a bit of encouragement. It gets better fast once you pick > up on the techniques. Unfortunately, I found that the proper tool usually > made hours of difference in the work load. I say unfortunately, because > they are really expensive. Maybe you can rent or borrow some stuff that you > don¹t have. A 6² Bosch DA electric sander with Velcro sanding discs is a > wonderful tool to own during a project like this. It will do orbital action > or spin like a grinder. The 6² plate helps you keep sections flat as you > work it from side to side holding it level. It creates a suction to pull > loose material into a bag. I use a piece of bilge hose from the tool to a > dust trap powered by a $20 shop vac (the shop vac won¹t last a day without > the dust trap in front of it.) You can buy 40 or 60 grit discs, then go to > 80 or 100 and it just really chews stuff up. > > I have attached a crude drawing of the dust trap. It¹s basically pretty > much like Charlie¹s Bong. Experiment with the water level ­ you will have > to dump water from the shop vac back into the trap from time to time. The > standard shop vac hose and standard bilge hose are close to the same size. > Use wraps of duct tape to adjust sized to match PVC pipe fittings from the > box store. I used a ³T² fitting on mine so that a helper can run a second > sander ‹ and cap it off with a loose fitting. > > I searched through my library of photos and have bunches to share, but > nothing that adequately shows any beveling of glass. If I were to describe > my technique; glue the piece of glass back in place even if you just butt > the cut together with 5 minute epoxy. Take a 4² angle grinder with a heavy > grit disc and just grind a ³dish² area a few inches wide with the deepest > part right over your glued line. After all the grinding is done, clean it > carefully ending with an acetone wipe. Start laying glass into the dish > with the widest piece at the bottom and smaller pieces until you get it > flush. You can come back after it¹s a little firmed up and swipe on your > first fairing goop coat if you want to save a step. > > I assume you are using epoxy products ‹ you really MUST, in my opinion. > Geougeon Brothers have a really complete guide that can be had free or close > to it at your West Marine store, but all of the information is also online. > Their West System epoxy is easy to work with, though you can buy cheaper. I > have called them in a pinch and they are really good about advising you on > their products. Here¹s their link: > > http://westsystem.com/frames/tier1/usingepoxy.htm > > Keep your chin up. > > Wilkie > > > > > > > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> > Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:40:08 -0000 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 2-29 Rebuild > > > > > Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of > depression at the > demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and attending to > the mast now > that it is off of the deck. > > I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a dremel > tool. > > The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. > > Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front berth....what > was the > extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment points > for the front > pan. > > All the best. > > James > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , > "clausont" <clausont@> wrote: > > > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > > burr which works well in the die grinder. > > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , James > Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > > > James Bibb > > > Cal 2-29 > > > Juneau, Alaska > > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > > it. As usual, the > > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > > I found needed done. > > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > > sailing again. > > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > > stages of the rebuild > > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > > replacement: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > > so if anyone is > > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > > better detail, I may > > > > have just what they need. > > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > > finds something > > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > > his to be sure. > > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey thanks! Tools, I have. I have a nice Fein Disk Sander with a shop vac read to go. I'm perking up a bit right now. I've ordered new parts for the mast...boxes arriving in the mail always make for a "Christmas" like response that boost the moral. I'm geared to take a sailing course off of Vancouver with Marco Coda at Lands End sailing school. It will be the second go around for me and a wonderful distraction. This will be next week so my mind is already moving away from the demolition. I figure that I'll really make a mess of stuff...get the bulkhead and mast back in, new standing and running rigging and sail her rough this summer and take the time during the winter to do some nice cabinetry refit. Thanks for the encouragement David and I will look for the West System Instructions. James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen <wilkie@...> wrote: > > > > James, > > I¹ll jump in with a bit of encouragement. It gets better fast once you pick > up on the techniques. Unfortunately, I found that the proper tool usually > made hours of difference in the work load. I say unfortunately, because > they are really expensive. Maybe you can rent or borrow some stuff that you > don¹t have. A 6² Bosch DA electric sander with Velcro sanding discs is a > wonderful tool to own during a project like this. It will do orbital action > or spin like a grinder. The 6² plate helps you keep sections flat as you > work it from side to side holding it level. It creates a suction to pull > loose material into a bag. I use a piece of bilge hose from the tool to a > dust trap powered by a $20 shop vac (the shop vac won¹t last a day without > the dust trap in front of it.) You can buy 40 or 60 grit discs, then go to > 80 or 100 and it just really chews stuff up. > > I have attached a crude drawing of the dust trap. It¹s basically pretty > much like Charlie¹s Bong. Experiment with the water level ­ you will have > to dump water from the shop vac back into the trap from time to time. The > standard shop vac hose and standard bilge hose are close to the same size. > Use wraps of duct tape to adjust sized to match PVC pipe fittings from the > box store. I used a ³T² fitting on mine so that a helper can run a second > sander ‹ and cap it off with a loose fitting. > > I searched through my library of photos and have bunches to share, but > nothing that adequately shows any beveling of glass. If I were to describe > my technique; glue the piece of glass back in place even if you just butt > the cut together with 5 minute epoxy. Take a 4² angle grinder with a heavy > grit disc and just grind a ³dish² area a few inches wide with the deepest > part right over your glued line. After all the grinding is done, clean it > carefully ending with an acetone wipe. Start laying glass into the dish > with the widest piece at the bottom and smaller pieces until you get it > flush. You can come back after it¹s a little firmed up and swipe on your > first fairing goop coat if you want to save a step. > > I assume you are using epoxy products ‹ you really MUST, in my opinion. > Geougeon Brothers have a really complete guide that can be had free or close > to it at your West Marine store, but all of the information is also online. > Their West System epoxy is easy to work with, though you can buy cheaper. I > have called them in a pinch and they are really good about advising you on > their products. Here¹s their link: > > http://westsystem.com/frames/tier1/usingepoxy.htm > > Keep your chin up. > > Wilkie > > > > > > > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> > Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:40:08 -0000 > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 2-29 Rebuild > > > > > Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of > depression at the > demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and attending to > the mast now > that it is off of the deck. > > I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a dremel > tool. > > The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. > > Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front berth....what > was the > extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment points > for the front > pan. > > All the best. > > James > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , > "clausont" <clausont@> wrote: > > > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > > burr which works well in the die grinder. > > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , James > Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > > > James Bibb > > > Cal 2-29 > > > Juneau, Alaska > > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > > it. As usual, the > > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > > I found needed done. > > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > > sailing again. > > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > > stages of the rebuild > > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > > replacement: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > > so if anyone is > > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > > better detail, I may > > > > have just what they need. > > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > > finds something > > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > > his to be sure. > > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Thanks Tim...Got me excited again! James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "clausont" <clausont@...> wrote: > > Thanks for jumping in here Wilkie. > You have explained it better than I would have probably done. I will > try to look through the hundreds of pictures I took in the project and > find one or two to show the beveling. I like your technique better > than mine I think. What I did was to take an angle grinder with a 36 > grit disk on a backing pad and bevel it through the whole thickness > until there was about 1/16" of material left on both edges. As I > recall, I could only bevel it back about three inches on one edge. > After carefully cleaning as you described, I reglassed it with > multiple layers of glass cloth in wider and wider strips until I had > built it up to nearly the original thickness and then faired it. > I used Epiglass epoxy ( use this carefully as it goes off pretty fast). > James - > It may seem a daunting task to replace the beam, but don't despair - > once you dive in, it goes pretty quickly. > I did not do quite as much demo as Wilkie did since I didn't replace > the main bulkheads. I was able to remove the front of the galley > cabinet only in front of the ice box and removed the locker only by > the main bulkhead on the port side. You can go as far as you want on > the rebuild. I have to admit - my joinery work is a little less than > "expert craftsman" quality. But I think it turned out pretty well. > I will try to look up some pictures and put the links on here for you. > Thanks, > > Tim > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen <wilkie@> wrote: > > > > > > > > James, > > > > I¹ll jump in with a bit of encouragement. It gets better fast once > you pick > > up on the techniques. Unfortunately, I found that the proper tool > usually > > made hours of difference in the work load. I say unfortunately, because > > they are really expensive. Maybe you can rent or borrow some stuff > that you > > don¹t have. A 6² Bosch DA electric sander with Velcro sanding discs > is a > > wonderful tool to own during a project like this. It will do > orbital action > > or spin like a grinder. The 6² plate helps you keep sections flat > as you > > work it from side to side holding it level. It creates a suction to > pull > > loose material into a bag. I use a piece of bilge hose from the > tool to a > > dust trap powered by a $20 shop vac (the shop vac won¹t last a day > without > > the dust trap in front of it.) You can buy 40 or 60 grit discs, > then go to > > 80 or 100 and it just really chews stuff up. > > > > I have attached a crude drawing of the dust trap. It¹s basically pretty > > much like Charlie¹s Bong. Experiment with the water level ­ you > will have > > to dump water from the shop vac back into the trap from time to > time. The > > standard shop vac hose and standard bilge hose are close to the same > size. > > Use wraps of duct tape to adjust sized to match PVC pipe fittings > from the > > box store. I used a ³T² fitting on mine so that a helper can run a > second > > sander ‹ and cap it off with a loose fitting. > > > > I searched through my library of photos and have bunches to share, but > > nothing that adequately shows any beveling of glass. If I were to > describe > > my technique; glue the piece of glass back in place even if you just > butt > > the cut together with 5 minute epoxy. Take a 4² angle grinder with > a heavy > > grit disc and just grind a ³dish² area a few inches wide with the > deepest > > part right over your glued line. After all the grinding is done, > clean it > > carefully ending with an acetone wipe. Start laying glass into the dish > > with the widest piece at the bottom and smaller pieces until you get it > > flush. You can come back after it¹s a little firmed up and swipe on your > > first fairing goop coat if you want to save a step. > > > > I assume you are using epoxy products ‹ you really MUST, in my opinion. > > Geougeon Brothers have a really complete guide that can be had free > or close > > to it at your West Marine store, but all of the information is also > online. > > Their West System epoxy is easy to work with, though you can buy > cheaper. I > > have called them in a pinch and they are really good about advising > you on > > their products. Here¹s their link: > > > > http://westsystem.com/frames/tier1/usingepoxy.htm > > > > Keep your chin up. > > > > Wilkie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> > > Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:40:08 -0000 > > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 2-29 Rebuild > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of > > depression at the > > demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and > attending to > > the mast now > > that it is off of the deck. > > > > I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a > dremel > > tool. > > > > The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. > > > > Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front > berth....what > > was the > > extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment > points > > for the front > > pan. > > > > All the best. > > > > James > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "clausont" <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > > > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > > > burr which works well in the die grinder. > > > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > > > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > > > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > > > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > > > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > > > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > > > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > > > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > > > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , James > > Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > > > > > James Bibb > > > > Cal 2-29 > > > > Juneau, Alaska > > > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > > > it. As usual, the > > > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > > > I found needed done. > > > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > > > sailing again. > > > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > > > stages of the rebuild > > > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > > > replacement: > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > > > so if anyone is > > > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > > > better detail, I may > > > > > have just what they need. > > > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > > > finds something > > > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > > > his to be sure. > > > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Thanks Tim...Got me excited again! James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "clausont" <clausont@...> wrote: > > Thanks for jumping in here Wilkie. > You have explained it better than I would have probably done. I will > try to look through the hundreds of pictures I took in the project and > find one or two to show the beveling. I like your technique better > than mine I think. What I did was to take an angle grinder with a 36 > grit disk on a backing pad and bevel it through the whole thickness > until there was about 1/16" of material left on both edges. As I > recall, I could only bevel it back about three inches on one edge. > After carefully cleaning as you described, I reglassed it with > multiple layers of glass cloth in wider and wider strips until I had > built it up to nearly the original thickness and then faired it. > I used Epiglass epoxy ( use this carefully as it goes off pretty fast). > James - > It may seem a daunting task to replace the beam, but don't despair - > once you dive in, it goes pretty quickly. > I did not do quite as much demo as Wilkie did since I didn't replace > the main bulkheads. I was able to remove the front of the galley > cabinet only in front of the ice box and removed the locker only by > the main bulkhead on the port side. You can go as far as you want on > the rebuild. I have to admit - my joinery work is a little less than > "expert craftsman" quality. But I think it turned out pretty well. > I will try to look up some pictures and put the links on here for you. > Thanks, > > Tim > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, David Wilkie Owen <wilkie@> wrote: > > > > > > > > James, > > > > I¹ll jump in with a bit of encouragement. It gets better fast once > you pick > > up on the techniques. Unfortunately, I found that the proper tool > usually > > made hours of difference in the work load. I say unfortunately, because > > they are really expensive. Maybe you can rent or borrow some stuff > that you > > don¹t have. A 6² Bosch DA electric sander with Velcro sanding discs > is a > > wonderful tool to own during a project like this. It will do > orbital action > > or spin like a grinder. The 6² plate helps you keep sections flat > as you > > work it from side to side holding it level. It creates a suction to > pull > > loose material into a bag. I use a piece of bilge hose from the > tool to a > > dust trap powered by a $20 shop vac (the shop vac won¹t last a day > without > > the dust trap in front of it.) You can buy 40 or 60 grit discs, > then go to > > 80 or 100 and it just really chews stuff up. > > > > I have attached a crude drawing of the dust trap. It¹s basically pretty > > much like Charlie¹s Bong. Experiment with the water level ­ you > will have > > to dump water from the shop vac back into the trap from time to > time. The > > standard shop vac hose and standard bilge hose are close to the same > size. > > Use wraps of duct tape to adjust sized to match PVC pipe fittings > from the > > box store. I used a ³T² fitting on mine so that a helper can run a > second > > sander ‹ and cap it off with a loose fitting. > > > > I searched through my library of photos and have bunches to share, but > > nothing that adequately shows any beveling of glass. If I were to > describe > > my technique; glue the piece of glass back in place even if you just > butt > > the cut together with 5 minute epoxy. Take a 4² angle grinder with > a heavy > > grit disc and just grind a ³dish² area a few inches wide with the > deepest > > part right over your glued line. After all the grinding is done, > clean it > > carefully ending with an acetone wipe. Start laying glass into the dish > > with the widest piece at the bottom and smaller pieces until you get it > > flush. You can come back after it¹s a little firmed up and swipe on your > > first fairing goop coat if you want to save a step. > > > > I assume you are using epoxy products ‹ you really MUST, in my opinion. > > Geougeon Brothers have a really complete guide that can be had free > or close > > to it at your West Marine store, but all of the information is also > online. > > Their West System epoxy is easy to work with, though you can buy > cheaper. I > > have called them in a pinch and they are really good about advising > you on > > their products. Here¹s their link: > > > > http://westsystem.com/frames/tier1/usingepoxy.htm > > > > Keep your chin up. > > > > Wilkie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> > > Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:40:08 -0000 > > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 2-29 Rebuild > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Tim. Photos are always appreciated. I'm fighting a bit of > > depression at the > > demolition work and found a quick distraction at re-wiring and > attending to > > the mast now > > that it is off of the deck. > > > > I bought the carbide roto-zip after realizing the limitations of a > dremel > > tool. > > > > The photo I would like is the beveling of the floor pan. > > > > Also the front attachment at the forward bulkhead at the front > berth....what > > was the > > extent of the demolition in that bulkhead to access the attachment > points > > for the front > > pan. > > > > All the best. > > > > James > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "clausont" <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > I used an electric die grinder ( not a dremel tool, but a good, strong > > > full sized electric die grinder) with a Carbide "Roto-Zip" cutting > > > burr which works well in the die grinder. > > > I don't know if this is the recommended practice or not so use this > > > tool / combination at your own discretion. Be sure to wear full eye, > > > ear and respiratory protection when using this for cutting since it > > > throws a fine fiberglass powder everywhere. > > > Once you are done with the cut in the floor pan, the die will be > > > significantly slower cutting even though it is carbide. > > > I used a rotary sander / grinder to bevel the floor pan section to > > > glass back in since I am not that good at free forming fiberglass. > > > Let me know if you would like more detailed pictures of the beam job. > > > Thanks > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , James > > Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just about to do a "Wilkie" job on the beam as > > > > well as the main bulkheads. May I ask what tool you > > > > used to cut the fiberglass pan? > > > > > > > > James Bibb > > > > Cal 2-29 > > > > Juneau, Alaska > > > > --- clausont <clausont@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We bought a 1974 Cal 2-29 and started to refurbish > > > > > it. As usual, the > > > > > further I got into doing the little things, the more > > > > > I found needed done. > > > > > Well, it is pretty much done now - in the water and > > > > > sailing again. > > > > > Here is a link to some pictures of it in various > > > > > stages of the rebuild > > > > > along with a few pictures of the "Dreaded Beam" > > > > > replacement: > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/62028190@N00/ > > > > > I took A LOT of pictures of the beam replacement, > > > > > so if anyone is > > > > > starting this project and needs more pictures or > > > > > better detail, I may > > > > > have just what they need. > > > > > I hope that somewhere in these pictures, someone > > > > > finds something > > > > > useful. Wilkie did a far better and complete job on > > > > > his to be sure. > > > > > This is my first eve boat project like this. > > > > > Thanks again all here who helped out with my newbie > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa¹s hull and keel, I¹ve discovered a new concern. Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn¹t take much digging to strike standing water. It¹s bout a half inch gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How about applying a total vacuum? AND -- How concerned should I be about this issue? Wilkie

David, When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic syringe...? Jerry --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa’s hull and keel, I’ve discovered a new concern. Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn’t take much digging to strike standing water. It’s bout a half inch gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How about applying a total vacuum? AND -- How concerned should I be about this issue? Wilkie

My water is internal, that has soaked into this small void over the years. At second look, it¹s more oil and diesel fuel than water. The boat hasn¹t had any oil or diesel fuel in the bilge since I bought it, when it was full of stinky gunk. It took me months to get the smell out and I had to throw away the foam in the cushions. So it¹s that same smelly sludge. I¹ll just clean it out, dry it with alcohol and glass it over, I guess. I probed it with a coat hanger and it wasn¹t going anywhere. I added acetone and it didn¹t seep away, so I think it¹s OK. Wilkie From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:52:51 -0700 (PDT) To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) David, When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic syringe...? Jerry --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: > From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM > > > After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa¹s hull and > keel, I¹ve discovered a new concern. > > Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the > interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that > span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a > small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed > gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn¹t > take much digging to strike standing water. It¹s bout a half inch gap. I had > already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, > so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. > > I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a > chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How > about applying a total vacuum? > > AND -- > > How concerned should I be about this issue? > > Wilkie >

David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least from my experience. Many Thanks Charlie Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:59 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) My water is internal, that has soaked into this small void over the years. At second look, it's more oil and diesel fuel than water. The boat hasn't had any oil or diesel fuel in the bilge since I bought it, when it was full of stinky gunk. It took me months to get the smell out and I had to throw away the foam in the cushions. So it's that same smelly sludge. I'll just clean it out, dry it with alcohol and glass it over, I guess. I probed it with a coat hanger and it wasn't going anywhere. I added acetone and it didn't seep away, so I think it's OK. Wilkie From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:52:51 -0700 (PDT) To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) David, When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic syringe...? Jerry --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa's hull and keel, I've discovered a new concern. Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn't take much digging to strike standing water. It's bout a half inch gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How about applying a total vacuum? AND -- How concerned should I be about this issue? Wilkie

I had a spill that left diesel in the main keel and bilges. This caused the cabin to smell incredibly rancid. I tried all of the cleaners over and over and only one thing really cut the diesel odor! 4-5 gallons of White Vinegar at about $2.00 a gallon cheep!!! I wet vacuumed the rancid water and took it to a disposal site then added more vinegar while filling up the bilge with ocean water this brought the level of liquid up to the top so it would clean all contaminated surfaces of the diesel grime. I left this application in over night, then again shop vacuumed all of that liquid and now the only smell I had was vinegar....That odor was combated with simple green spray. Mark odor free 2-29 San Pedro ----- Original Message ----- From: Husar, Charlie [USA] To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least from my experience. Many Thanks Charlie Annapolis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:59 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) My water is internal, that has soaked into this small void over the years. At second look, it's more oil and diesel fuel than water. The boat hasn't had any oil or diesel fuel in the bilge since I bought it, when it was full of stinky gunk. It took me months to get the smell out and I had to throw away the foam in the cushions. So it's that same smelly sludge. I'll just clean it out, dry it with alcohol and glass it over, I guess. I probed it with a coat hanger and it wasn't going anywhere. I added acetone and it didn't seep away, so I think it's OK. Wilkie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:52:51 -0700 (PDT) To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) David, When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic syringe...? Jerry --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa's hull and keel, I've discovered a new concern. Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn't take much digging to strike standing water. It's bout a half inch gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How about applying a total vacuum? AND -- How concerned should I be about this issue? Wilkie __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3184 (20080613) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Thanks Charlie. I¹m probably not the first person to use kitty litter as a boat cleanup tool. Worked great. Wilkie From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:45:52 -0400 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Conversation: Water in Keel (David) Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least from my experience. Many Thanks Charlie Annapolis

Nice tip, Mark. My wife used bowls of vinegar sitting around the house after a bunch of us lit up cigars (first and last time) during a holiday poker party. DWO From: "Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting)" <ma… [at] cox.net> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:28:56 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) I had a spill that left diesel in the main keel and bilges. This caused the cabin to smell incredibly rancid. I tried all of the cleaners over and over and only one thing really cut the diesel odor! 4-5 gallons of White Vinegar at about $2.00 a gallon cheep!!! I wet vacuumed the rancid water and took it to a disposal site then added more vinegar while filling up the bilge with ocean water this brought the level of liquid up to the top so it would clean all contaminated surfaces of the diesel grime. I left this application in over night, then again shop vacuumed all of that liquid and now the only smell I had was vinegar....That odor was combated with simple green spray. Mark odor free 2-29 San Pedro > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:45 AM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) > > > > > > > David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. > Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I > believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and > seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or > other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least > from my experience. > > > > Many Thanks > > Charlie > > Annapolis > > > > > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of David Wilkie Owen > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:59 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) > > > > > My water is internal, that has soaked into this small void over the years. > At second look, it¹s more oil and diesel fuel than water. The boat hasn¹t > had any oil or diesel fuel in the bilge since I bought it, when it was full > of stinky gunk. It took me months to get the smell out and I had to throw > away the foam in the cushions. So it¹s that same smelly sludge. I¹ll just > clean it out, dry it with alcohol and glass it over, I guess. I probed it > with a coat hanger and it wasn¹t going anywhere. I added acetone and it > didn¹t seep away, so I think it¹s OK. > > Wilkie > > > > From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> > Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:52:51 -0700 (PDT) > To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) > > > > > David, > > When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small > leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the > salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water > reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, > perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it > over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained > slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass > fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak > may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to > access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At > the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the > boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. > > If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic > syringe...? > Jerry > > --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: > >> From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM >> >> >> After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa¹s hull and >> keel, I¹ve discovered a new concern. >> >> Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the >> interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces >> that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration >> with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an >> un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. >> It didn¹t take much digging to strike standing water. It¹s bout a half inch >> gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was >> dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. >> >> I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a >> chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How >> about applying a total vacuum? >> >> AND -- >> >> How concerned should I be about this issue? >> >> Wilkie >> > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3184 (20080613) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com

David, thanks for adding that to my list. Lady friend has a couple cats. By the way folks, my lady friend loves to sand boat bottoms. Finds it therapeutic. For a couple cases of MGD, I'll ship her out there. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) Thanks Charlie. I'm probably not the first person to use kitty litter as a boat cleanup tool. Worked great. Wilkie From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:45:52 -0400 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Conversation: Water in Keel (David) Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least from my experience. Many Thanks Charlie Annapolis

Wilkie: Others have said it much better, but thanks for the information on Roger Jones' illness and passing. If your reservoir contains diesel fuel, this may be the stuff that will free your lovely Mariposa from stank: http://www.chompproducts.com/bilge.htm Best, Jon Myers -occasional Cal 29 ballast From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:08 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) Nice tip, Mark. My wife used bowls of vinegar sitting around the house after a bunch of us lit up cigars (first and last time) during a holiday poker party. DWO _____ From: "Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting)" <ma… [at] cox.net> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:28:56 -0700 To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) I had a spill that left diesel in the main keel and bilges. This caused the cabin to smell incredibly rancid. I tried all of the cleaners over and over and only one thing really cut the diesel odor! 4-5 gallons of White Vinegar at about $2.00 a gallon cheep!!! I wet vacuumed the rancid water and took it to a disposal site then added more vinegar while filling up the bilge with ocean water this brought the level of liquid up to the top so it would clean all contaminated surfaces of the diesel grime. I left this application in over night, then again shop vacuumed all of that liquid and now the only smell I had was vinegar....That odor was combated with simple green spray. Mark odor free 2-29 San Pedro From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> <mailto:hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in Keel (David) David, it is pretty common to have voids between the lead slug and the hull. Some tapping around the near the bottom of the keel will demonstrate that. I believe they dropped in the slug and made some attempt to fill the space and seal the top inside the keel. Not necessarily successful. The water (or other gunk) intrusion is TYPICALLY from the inside of the bilge. At least from my experience. Many Thanks Charlie Annapolis _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [ mailto:Cal_Boats@ <mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com]> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkie Owen Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:59 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) My water is internal, that has soaked into this small void over the years. At second look, it's more oil and diesel fuel than water. The boat hasn't had any oil or diesel fuel in the bilge since I bought it, when it was full of stinky gunk. It took me months to get the smell out and I had to throw away the foam in the cushions. So it's that same smelly sludge. I'll just clean it out, dry it with alcohol and glass it over, I guess. I probed it with a coat hanger and it wasn't going anywhere. I added acetone and it didn't seep away, so I think it's OK. Wilkie _____ From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> Reply-To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:52:51 -0700 (PDT) To: <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel(David) David, When I purchased my boat, I found the leading edge of my Cal 24 had a small leak, and knew it was sea water by the interesting big salt crystals and the salty taste of the water. I was on the hard when I found this salt water reservoir, and some disk sanding below this point revealed a small crack, perhaps when the boat struck some rocks by the previous owners. I glassed it over, but I don't think I did a very good job because the area remained slightly sticky. I smoothed it over with some marine polyester and glass fiber filler, and painted it (out of sight, out of mind). I think the leak may have returned later, but it is really slow, and in a spot difficult to access, as I have to unscrew the floor below my porta-potty to get to it. At the time I drained it out with a small brass piston pump that came with the boat, and got into the cranny with a length of 3/8 ID hose. If your spot is tiny you might try 1/8"ID tube attached to a big plastic syringe...? Jerry --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> wrote: From: David Wilkie Owen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Water in keel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 2:56 PM After investing about 12 hours in my project to stiffen Mariposa's hull and keel, I've discovered a new concern. Water was welling upwards from the front edge of the keel floor into the interior of the bilge. I noticed this after removing the plywood pieces that span the interior of the keel in the main salon. A little exploration with a small grinding ball found very thin glass over the lead plug and an un-glassed gap at the very front edge. It was full of bilge gunk and water. It didn't take much digging to strike standing water. It's bout a half inch gap. I had already drilled a hole in the side of the keel to confirm it was dry inside, so apparently the gap is just on the leading edge. I can drill a few holes to explore this, but was wondering if there was a chemical way to help dry this out, such as denatured alcohol or such? How about applying a total vacuum? AND -- How concerned should I be about this issue? Wilkie __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3184 (20080613) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. <http://www.eset.com> com ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 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David Wilkie Owen wrote: > > > > Nice tip, Mark. My wife used bowls of vinegar sitting around the > house after a bunch of us lit up cigars (first and last time) during a > holiday poker party. > Another method for eliminating odors is to set out bowls of household ammonia. I'm not sure what the chemical explanation is, but it tends to remove odor without smelling up the space with ammonia odors (unless you park your nose right over the boat). I've used this a lot to get rid of lingering smells. Then there's also the ozone generator, another effective method. Chris Campbell