Re: [Cal_Boats] LED running lights (Mike)

Mike, that was the reason for my "drunk stinkpotter" reference! I don't want to start anything here, but I can't see what even a stone-cold sober skipper of a 27' sailboat can do to avoid an overtaking 40+ mph speedboat. Incidentally, here in Massachusetts we had a recent case of a 63' Sea Ray running down a 35' Freedom in broad daylight, the skipper of the sailboat was killed instantly as the Sea Ray crossed the cockpit, the owner of the Sea Ray is now in VERY hot water and facing a 30 month jail sentence plus $3000 fine, loss of boat registration (boat was documented though?), automotive license suspended for 10 years. however, he isn't a Deputy Sheriff, just a used car dealer. The Sailboat owner (who was killed) was a well-loved local sailing coach and race committee member. Rod Johnson On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:01:45 -0700 Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> writes: On Sep 3, 2008, at 8:47 PM, Rodney G Johnson wrote: > > Chris, make REAL sure that any "drop-in" LEDs used to replace bulbs > (and they do make them) are in fact designed for use in NAVLights. > The USCG standards for NavLights require a certain range (for boats > less than 39.4' it will be 1 mile for sidelights, 2 miles for stern > and masthead lights) and arc of visability (light needs to be > visible for the proper degree arc) and vertical visibility (light > needs to be visible at average angle of heel when sailing). Most of > the LED replacements for bayonet bulbs that I've seen were intended > for use in cabin lights and thus are not going to meet USCG > standards for NavLights. Saving electricity is a wise idea on our > small outboard-powered (often without battery-charging ability) > sailboats, but it is all for naught if the NavLights aren't visible > enough and we get hit by some drunk stinkpotter. In northern California, the running lights don't matter. A woman was killed on a sailboat on a lake and it is now known that the running lights were on. The powerboat was going 40 knots and the driver was a deputy sheriff. Needless to say, the guy on the sailboat's helm is being prosecuted for manslaughter. The story has been followed for a year on latitude 38. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 0 # 96 > > Flexible Medical Administration programs. Click to start advancing your career. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oIq8rYFx2jtUN5zMUyOFKbToVWDpJp8vWu0nih6DDpKsimS/

Horrifying mental image of a huge stinkpot 'smoker' running over you at full speed! I imagine we should all go down to the local YMCA pool and practice our racing dives to get out of the way of such beasts. For pointers, watch some re-runs of the Olympic swimming events on Youtube. That's probably the only thing that might have saved the poor fellow. Sad Sad Sad. Another idea might be anti ship missiles. Make sure it's big enough to stop a ramaging 60' Sea Ray with an inattentive driver. Gad that's nearly as big as a WWII PT boat! The term Smoker is from the movie "Waterworld". It's a very cool flick despite what the "critics" said. Jerry --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> wrote: From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] LED running lights (Mike) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 1:22 PM Mike, that was the reason for my "drunk stinkpotter" reference! I don't want to start anything here, but I can't see what even a stone-cold sober skipper of a 27' sailboat can do to avoid an overtaking 40+ mph speedboat. Incidentally, here in Massachusetts we had a recent case of a 63' Sea Ray running down a 35' Freedom in broad daylight, the skipper of the sailboat was killed instantly as the Sea Ray crossed the cockpit, the owner of the Sea Ray is now in VERY hot water and facing a 30 month jail sentence plus $3000 fine, loss of boat registration (boat was documented though?), automotive license suspended for 10 years. however, he isn't a Deputy Sheriff, just a used car dealer. The Sailboat owner (who was killed) was a well-loved local sailing coach and race committee member. Rod Johnson On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:01:45 -0700 Michael Kennedy <mtkennedy1@cox. net> writes: On Sep 3, 2008, at 8:47 PM, Rodney G Johnson wrote: > > Chris, make REAL sure that any "drop-in" LEDs used to replace bulbs > (and they do make them) are in fact designed for use in NAVLights. > The USCG standards for NavLights require a certain range (for boats > less than 39.4' it will be 1 mile for sidelights, 2 miles for stern > and masthead lights) and arc of visability (light needs to be > visible for the proper degree arc) and vertical visibility (light > needs to be visible at average angle of heel when sailing). Most of > the LED replacements for bayonet bulbs that I've seen were intended > for use in cabin lights and thus are not going to meet USCG > standards for NavLights. Saving electricity is a wise idea on our > small outboard-powered (often without battery-charging ability) > sailboats, but it is all for naught if the NavLights aren't visible > enough and we get hit by some drunk stinkpotter. In northern California, the running lights don't matter. A woman was killed on a sailboat on a lake and it is now known that the running lights were on. The powerboat was going 40 knots and the driver was a deputy sheriff. Needless to say, the guy on the sailboat's helm is being prosecuted for manslaughter. The story has been followed for a year on latitude 38. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 0 # 96 > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Flexible Medical Administration programs. Click to start advancing your career.

On Sep 6, 2008, at 2:15 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Horrifying mental image of a huge stinkpot 'smoker' running over you > at full speed! I imagine we should all go down to the local YMCA > pool and practice our racing dives to get out of the way of such > beasts. For pointers, watch some re-runs of the Olympic swimming > events on Youtube. That's probably the only thing that might have > saved the poor fellow. Sad Sad Sad. > > Another idea might be anti ship missiles. Make sure it's big enough > to stop a ramaging 60' Sea Ray with an inattentive driver. Gad > that's nearly as big as a WWII PT boat! > > The term Smoker is from the movie "Waterworld". It's a very cool > flick despite what the "critics" said. > Jerry The sailing was good. The writing was awful. The guy who sailed the big catamaran was a friend of my son, Mike Jr, and brought it out for the Transpac start one year. The writing was so awful, they had a plot point that dirt was more precious than anything else yet everybody in the movie was dirty ! Turn off the sound and watch the sailing. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

I am sure many have seen the sailboat video of the guy who turned his sailboat at the last second across the bow of what looked like a large ferry boat. Does anyone know the story about that incident? Was anyone killed? Or know what caused the skipper to turn into the path of the ferry? Just often wondered about that one.

Mike, I guess I looked at it as a weird dream. Dreams can be pretty nonsensical, but entertaining and engrossing non the less.And since you don't wake up while they are 'running' they seem like reality-that they are really happening to you. I just let the plausibility of it all ride, after all, you were pretty 'immersed' in the movie as you watched it. I bought the video at a charity outlet for $1, but I bet watching it on a big screen would have been fun. They say that because of foreign ticket sales, this most expensive movie ever made-at the time- ended up with a profit. The news made it out that it was a big loser. The acting was pretty good too-I like Kevin Costner (Dancing with Wolves). Very exciting action too. Jerry --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Getting run down by stinkers/smokers was: LED running lites) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 10:42 AM On Sep 6, 2008, at 2:15 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Horrifying mental image of a huge stinkpot 'smoker' running over you > at full speed! I imagine we should all go down to the local YMCA > pool and practice our racing dives to get out of the way of such > beasts. For pointers, watch some re-runs of the Olympic swimming > events on Youtube. That's probably the only thing that might have > saved the poor fellow. Sad Sad Sad. > > Another idea might be anti ship missiles. Make sure it's big enough > to stop a ramaging 60' Sea Ray with an inattentive driver. Gad > that's nearly as big as a WWII PT boat! > > The term Smoker is from the movie "Waterworld" . It's a very cool > flick despite what the "critics" said. > Jerry The sailing was good. The writing was awful. The guy who sailed the big catamaran was a friend of my son, Mike Jr, and brought it out for the Transpac start one year. The writing was so awful, they had a plot point that dirt was more precious than anything else yet everybody in the movie was dirty ! Turn off the sound and watch the sailing. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

On Sep 6, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > Mike, > I guess I looked at it as a weird dream. Dreams can be pretty > nonsensical, but entertaining and engrossing non the less.And since > you don't wake up while they are 'running' they seem like reality- > that they are really happening to you. I just let the plausibility > of it all ride, after all, you were pretty 'immersed' in the movie > as you watched it. I bought the video at a charity outlet for $1, > but I bet watching it on a big screen would have been fun. Well, I liked the sailing scenes. Costner has had a couple of bombs. One was called The Postman and I never saw that. I don't think anybody else did either. His sports movies are good, Bull Durham was the best and Tin Cup was also good. There were lots of good inside pro-golf jokes in it. There are very few good sailing movies. Overboard, a good sailing novel by a screenwriter who lives aboard his boat was made into an awful movie. Captains Courageous had some of the best sailing scenes in movies. I watched it again last week. Anyway, no sailing this weekend. I'm simmering in Arizona. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 #96 > > > They say that because of foreign ticket sales, this most expensive > movie ever made-at the time- ended up with a profit. The news made > it out that it was a big loser. The acting was pretty good too-I > like Kevin Costner (Dancing with Wolves). Very exciting action too. > Jerry > > --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Getting run down by stinkers/smokers was: > LED running lites) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 10:42 AM > >

First part here: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufNzunuXMCc&feature=related> I thought it was cool that it was "out there"... Marsh

Bruce Stirling wrote: > > I am sure many have seen the sailboat video of the guy who turned his > sailboat at the last second across the bow of what looked like a large > ferry boat. > We had a similar incident on our schooner at Duluth this summer. The "tall ships" were organizing themselves into a parade into the harbor. We were charging along on a starboard tack. There was a guy in a 28+/- foot boat, luffing and sitting dead in the water on our port side. Just as we approached he trimmed sail or something and started moving. He t-boned us, although he suffered the only substantial damage (his pulpit-mounted running light flew off, the pulpit itself was probably wrenched off the deck, and who knows what happened to his hull). We had a couple minor chips in the cap rail. Really odd. Then a day later I was taking the harbor tour when a sailboat under power crossed right in front of the tour boat. Five big blasts on the horn, and the captain came out of the wheelhouse to yell at the sailboat, "don't you know the rules of the road?" The answer was self-evident. Chris Campbell > >

Hello Listees, We were out racing on Magic yesterday in 10-15 kts; seas 2-3 ft. The course was a windward, reach, start, windward, finish (triangle & sausage). We were flying the 155 kevlar close hauled heading for the reaching mark during the second race of the day for the final downwind run to the finish. The leeward rail was in the water, and the crew was on the high side when the rudder fell off. The rudder floated and was recovered by another club member. Corrosion of the stock about 6 inches into the rudder was the culprit. Plans are to split the rudder open, replace the stock, and reseal/glass the rudder. Tonight, I'll remove the remaining rudder stock from Magic. Any input & experience others may have with doing a rudder repair will be greatly appreciated. We have another race coming up on 9/20, and we want to be ready for it. BTW, we took 2nd place in the first race. Regards, Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL

Check the specs as I have a fresh water rudder that is complete off of a cal 25 that is in excelent condition and you might be able to slip it right in. mo… [at] aol.com or call419-283-5155 located in ohio From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 8:58 am Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-27 Rudder Hello Listees, We were out racing on Magic yesterday in 10-15 kts; seas 2-3 ft.? The course was a windward, reach, start, windward, finish (triangle & sausage).? We were flying the 155 kevlar close hauled heading for the reaching mark during the second race of the day for the final downwind run to the finish.? The leeward rail was in the water, and the crew was on the high side when the rudder fell off.? The rudder floated and was recovered by another club member. Corrosion of the stock about 6 inches into the rudder was the culprit.? Plans are to split the rudder open, replace the stock, and reseal/glass the rudder.? Tonight, I'll remove the remaining rudder stock from Magic. Any input & experience others may have with doing a rudder repair will be greatly appreciated.? We have another race coming up on 9/20, and we want to be ready for it. BTW, we took 2nd place in the first race. Regards, Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL

If you can get in touch with Robert Kolaja from Styvescent Yacht club in City Island, NY they have a 2-27 that is probably going to be cut up, boat was run up on the rocks, engine fried, etc, but rudder is fine. would probably be willing to drop the rudder and send it to you for less than it would cost you to replace yours. His number is 201.914.0808 --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Michael D <mddfl@...> wrote: > > Hello Listees, > > We were out racing on Magic yesterday in 10-15 kts; seas 2-3 ft. The course was a windward, reach, start, windward, finish (triangle & sausage). We were flying the 155 kevlar close hauled heading for the reaching mark during the second race of the day for the final downwind run to the finish. The leeward rail was in the water, and the crew was on the high side when the rudder fell off. The rudder floated and was recovered by another club member. > > Corrosion of the stock about 6 inches into the rudder was the culprit. Plans are to split the rudder open, replace the stock, and reseal/glass the rudder. Tonight, I'll remove the remaining rudder stock from Magic. > > Any input & experience others may have with doing a rudder repair will be greatly appreciated. We have another race coming up on 9/20, and we want to be ready for it. > > BTW, we took 2nd place in the first race. > > Regards, > Michael Duvall > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL >

If you are planning to do the work yourself I can't offer any advise, but if you are planning to pay someone to do the work consider foss foam (http://www.fossfoam.com/index.htm) for a new rudder. A friend had his 227 rudder rebuilt locally for about 50% more than what he paid for a new rudder for his 28 mk 2 several years later. John B. ps the holding tank has been great! _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:58 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 2-27 Rudder Hello Listees, We were out racing on Magic yesterday in 10-15 kts; seas 2-3 ft. The course was a windward, reach, start, windward, finish (triangle & sausage). We were flying the 155 kevlar close hauled heading for the reaching mark during the second race of the day for the final downwind run to the finish. The leeward rail was in the water, and the crew was on the high side when the rudder fell off. The rudder floated and was recovered by another club member. Corrosion of the stock about 6 inches into the rudder was the culprit. Plans are to split the rudder open, replace the stock, and reseal/glass the rudder. Tonight, I'll remove the remaining rudder stock from Magic. Any input & experience others may have with doing a rudder repair will be greatly appreciated. We have another race coming up on 9/20, and we want to be ready for it. BTW, we took 2nd place in the first race. Regards, Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL

Hello All, Thanks for the suggestions on alternate rudder sources. With help from a friend that used to build boats, I decided to refurbish the rudder. After work last night, I went to Magic, and removed what was left of the rudder stock. It took about an hour to unbolt the quadrant, stuffing box, etc. I took a quick dip in the water to tie a line around the protruding stock, then pushed it out from the cockpit. I took the broken pieces to my friend's house and we proceeded to split the rudder in half; opening it up like a sandwich. Here is what I found... I have no idea whether it was the original fabrication process. First let me say that cutting a rudder open is no easy task. After splitting the fiberglass open longitudinally with a cutting wheel (the easy part), the rest of the cutting was done with a hand saw (the hard part). Cutting closed cell foam is not easy, since it tends to bind the saw blade. Lots of wedges were used to make things easier. Once the rudder was open, it was easy to see what failed and why. The main rudder stock is 2 3/8" SS tube. It protrudes into the rudder about 8 inches or so. The SS tube was welded to the lower half fabricated from mild steel. Visualize the character "F" with four horizontal lines, the top which is at a 45 degree angle. The failure occurred at two places; both where the mild steel was welded to the SS rudder stock. Water penetrated the rudder where the SS tube entered. It seeped only as far into the rudder to the point where the SS was welded with the mild steel. Corrosion ensued. Now I'm not metallurgist by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems to me that welding dissimilar metals (SS and mild steel) is a formula for disaster. Those of you here with welding experience may be able to say more on that. The plan now is to replace all of the rudder internal metal with 100% SS, then hold everything together with epoxy. Regards, Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL

Michael D wrote: > > > Now I'm not metallurgist by any stretch of the imagination, but it > seems to me that welding dissimilar metals (SS and mild steel) is a > formula for disaster. Those of you here with welding experience may > be able to say more on that. > Listserv comments in the past have introduced me to the concept of anaerobic corrosion of stainless, a problem that arises where oxygen is excluded from the stainless steel and it cannot form a protective oxide. You can't get much more anaerobic than inside a rudder when water gradually creeps in. Stainless steel is not the ideal metal for this function, apparently, although it is the most common one. My other boat, built in 1961, has a bronze rudder stock and rudder innards. After reading about the problems with stainless in rudders, it gives me great peace of mind to know that my old boat has bronze. Some have suggested using a flexible sealer at the top of the rudder where the stock enters the fiberglass shell because it's the only way to keep it sealed effectively. Chris Campbell > >

Chris, When I repowered Magic, I needed a longer propeller shaft. The original shaft was bronze. I asked for a bronze replacement at the propeller shop, and the eyes of the guy behind the counter glazed over... He told me that bronze propeller shafts were no longer manufactured... Go figure. As for my rudder.... the SS appears serviceable with little corrosion. It's the mild steel that corroded/rusted and failed. Had the "innards" been fabricated from SS, I doubt that I would have had a failure. Michael