2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question

While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my attention to the sticky rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the wheel. I've removed teh pin at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the rudder and I am now wondering what my next steps are? I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying to free up the rotation and reassemble. The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the lower collar has a stiff tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the rudder in place other than the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can I get this back together? I'll post pictures tomorrow. James

James, I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, here are some thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at the rudder post or with the binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with the steering cables free from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the Edson pull-pull steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than over sheaves. As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found 5/16" graphite packing worked better for me. Regards, Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <ja… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: James Bibb <ja… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my attention to the sticky rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the wheel. I've removed teh pin at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the rudder and I am now wondering what my next steps are? I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying to free up the rotation and reassemble. The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the lower collar has a stiff tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the rudder in place other than the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can I get this back together? I'll post pictures tomorrow. James

Michael, thanks...posted pictures this morning on my second page. I've isolated the problem to the rudder post after unhooking everything. Maybe a better question is to ask for an explanation of the design of the rudder support/ packing gland assembly. That way I can appreciate the issues. I feel I need to "hone" out the fiberglass rudder tube, both upper and lower to clean it and provide a real smooth surface....clean with acetone and then find the right lubrication. After that, put back together. I have to ask the question again....I can't figure out how the rudder post is held in place. Is is strickly friction and the buoyancy of the rudder? The Pin for the pendant just holds the pendant in place... --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Michael D <mddfl@...> wrote: > > James, > > I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, here are some thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at the rudder post or with the binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with the steering cables free from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the Edson pull-pull steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than over sheaves. > > As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found 5/16" graphite packing worked better for me. > > Regards, > Michael Duvall > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> wrote: > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my attention to the sticky > > rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the wheel. I've removed teh pin > > at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the rudder and I am now > > wondering what my next steps are? > > > > I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying to free up the rotation > > and reassemble. > > > > The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the lower collar has a stiff > > tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... > > > > So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the rudder in place other than > > the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can I get this back > > together? > > > > I'll post pictures tomorrow. > > > > James >

James, I found your photo of the stuffing box. It appears that it is secured to the rudder tube with SS clamps. This is what I suspect has lost it's alignment. With Magic, the stuffing box is secured to the rudder tube with FRP. Take a look at the attached photos. Since you have determined that the "stickiness" is definitely at the rudder tube, I recommend that you remove the packing from the stuffing box, remove the SS clamps, reinstall the rudder, and realign the stuffing box with the rudder stock. That should clear up the stickiness. Also, for lubrication on the rudder stock and tube I used Lanocote. It seems to work pretty well. Edson instructions recommend that the stuffing box be secured to the rudder tube with glass mat saturated with resin. It's messy, but it works well. The rudder stock continues up into the cockpit where there is a tiller head fitting, preventing the rudder from "falling" out. However, Magic's rudder floats! I recently found that out the hard way when the rudder stock broke inside the rudder (during a race) and the rudder floated away. I have attached three photos and the Edson PDF that describes installation of the stuffing box (page 5). If you like, I can fill in the details on the phone. Contact me off-line. Regards, Michael --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <ja… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: James Bibb <ja… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:32 PM Michael, thanks...posted pictures this morning on my second page. I've isolated the problem to the rudder post after unhooking everything. Maybe a better question is to ask for an explanation of the design of the rudder support/ packing gland assembly. That way I can appreciate the issues. I feel I need to "hone" out the fiberglass rudder tube, both upper and lower to clean it and provide a real smooth surface....clean with acetone and then find the right lubrication. After that, put back together. I have to ask the question again....I can't figure out how the rudder post is held in place. Is is strickly friction and the buoyancy of the rudder? The Pin for the pendant just holds the pendant in place... --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Michael D <mddfl@...> wrote: > > James, > > I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, here are some thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at the rudder post or with the binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with the steering cables free from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the Edson pull-pull steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than over sheaves. > > As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found 5/16" graphite packing worked better for me. > > Regards, > Michael Duvall > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> wrote: > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my attention to the sticky > > rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the wheel. I've removed teh pin > > at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the rudder and I am now > > wondering what my next steps are? > > > > I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying to free up the rotation > > and reassemble. > > > > The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the lower collar has a stiff > > tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... > > > > So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the rudder in place other than > > the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can I get this back > > together? > > > > I'll post pictures tomorrow. > > > > James >

Thanks again Michael. I can't pull up your attached photos, sent you an email with my Mac address. I put it all back together this morning and found out that my cast aluminum quadrant is broken. It'll hold until I get another one from Edsen. It made me thankful at getting under the deck at the stern and pulling things apart....that would have failed at a very in-opportune time! I lubed things up pretty good...replaced the packing from the stuffing box and screwed everything down. Somehow, I don't think the rudder tube is secured to the hull at the lower tube. I didn't "re-align" the tube as you recommended, however i'll try and do that when I replace my quadrant. There was an amazing amount of corrosion with the aluminum quadrant...the ss bolts closing it on the sides completely sheared off as well as a break clean through at the quadrant where it clamps around the post. I'm thinking that a lack of maintenance was the culprit as well as the stickiness of the rudder shaft...having to exert so much pressure on the quadrant, it eventually just sheared. Another part of the boat now familiar to me. I feel good about that. Thank you very much for your time, responding. I may give you a call to talk about the details. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Michael D <mddfl@...> wrote: > > James, > > I found your photo of the stuffing box. It appears that it is secured to the rudder tube with SS clamps. This is what I suspect has lost it's alignment. With Magic, the stuffing box is secured to the rudder tube with FRP. Take a look at the attached photos. > > Since you have determined that the "stickiness" is definitely at the rudder tube, I recommend that you remove the packing from the stuffing box, remove the SS clamps, reinstall the rudder, and realign the stuffing box with the rudder stock. That should clear up the stickiness. Also, for lubrication on the rudder stock and tube I used Lanocote. It seems to work pretty well. > > Edson instructions recommend that the stuffing box be secured to the rudder tube with glass mat saturated with resin. It's messy, but it works well. The rudder stock continues up into the cockpit where there is a tiller head fitting, preventing the rudder from "falling" out. However, Magic's rudder floats! I recently found that out the hard way when the rudder stock broke inside the rudder (during a race) and the rudder floated away. > > I have attached three photos and the Edson PDF that describes installation of the stuffing box (page 5). > > If you like, I can fill in the details on the phone. Contact me off-line. > > Regards, > Michael > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> wrote: > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael, thanks...posted pictures this morning on my second page. > > > > I've isolated the problem to the rudder post after unhooking everything. Maybe a better > > question is to ask for an explanation of the design of the rudder support/ packing gland > > assembly. That way I can appreciate the issues. > > > > I feel I need to "hone" out the fiberglass rudder tube, both upper and lower to clean it and > > provide a real smooth surface....clean with acetone and then find the right lubrication. > > After that, put back together. > > > > I have to ask the question again....I can't figure out how the rudder post is held in place. > > Is is strickly friction and the buoyancy of the rudder? The Pin for the pendant just holds > > the pendant in place... > > > > > > --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Michael D <mddfl@> wrote: > > > > > > James, > > > > > > I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, here are some > > thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at the rudder post or with the > > binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with the steering cables free > > from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the Edson pull-pull > > steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than over sheaves. > > > > > > As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found 5/16" graphite > > packing worked better for me. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Michael Duvall > > > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > > > Pompano Beach, FL > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> wrote: > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my attention to > > the sticky > > > > > > rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the wheel. I've removed teh > > pin > > > > > > at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the rudder and I am now > > > > > > wondering what my next steps are? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying to free up the > > rotation > > > > > > and reassemble. > > > > > > > > > > > > The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the lower collar has a > > stiff > > > > > > tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the rudder in place other > > than > > > > > > the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can I get this back > > > > > > together? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post pictures tomorrow. > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > >

James (and Michael,) I've been missing these messages for some Yahoo related glitch I suppose. I'm having trouble understanding this sentence: "Somehow, I don't think the rudder tube is secured to the hull at the lower tube. I didn't "re-align" the tube as you recommended, however I'll try and do that when I replace my quadrant." Since the boat would sink like a rock if the rudder tube wasn't attached to the hull, I think you are talking about the hose that joins the stuffing box to the rudder tube. The stuffing box seemed to align itself once the ruder post was through the bottom tube and into the bearing at the top (with the huge hose clamps loose, of course.) Then the clamps are tightened and it's good to go. I like the idea of glassing the stuffing box in place -- can't reason any downside to doing that, other than not being able to adjust for wear. But what wear? Another source of drag and stiffness on Mariposa was the idler pulleys underneath the steering pedestal. Those blocks are aluminum and like to corrode and jam up. I am due to R&R them again. Wilkie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Bibb Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:52 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) Thanks again Michael. I can't pull up your attached photos, sent you an email with my Mac address. I put it all back together this morning and found out that my cast aluminum quadrant is broken. It'll hold until I get another one from Edsen. It made me thankful at getting under the deck at the stern and pulling things apart....that would have failed at a very in-opportune time! I lubed things up pretty good...replaced the packing from the stuffing box and screwed everything down. Somehow, I don't think the rudder tube is secured to the hull at the lower tube. I didn't "re-align" the tube as you recommended, however i'll try and do that when I replace my quadrant. There was an amazing amount of corrosion with the aluminum quadrant...the ss bolts closing it on the sides completely sheared off as well as a break clean through at the quadrant where it clamps around the post. I'm thinking that a lack of maintenance was the culprit as well as the stickiness of the rudder shaft...having to exert so much pressure on the quadrant, it eventually just sheared. Another part of the boat now familiar to me. I feel good about that. Thank you very much for your time, responding. I may give you a call to talk about the details. --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , Michael D <mddfl@...> wrote: > > James, > > I found your photo of the stuffing box. It appears that it is secured > to the rudder tube with SS clamps. This is what I suspect has lost it's alignment. With Magic, the stuffing box is secured to the rudder tube with FRP. Take a look at the attached photos. > > Since you have determined that the "stickiness" is definitely at the > rudder tube, I recommend that you remove the packing from the stuffing box, remove the SS clamps, reinstall the rudder, and realign the stuffing box with the rudder stock. That should clear up the stickiness. Also, for lubrication on the rudder stock and tube I used Lanocote. It seems to work pretty well. > > Edson instructions recommend that the stuffing box be secured to the > rudder tube with glass mat saturated with resin. It's messy, but it works well. The rudder stock continues up into the cockpit where there is a tiller head fitting, preventing the rudder from "falling" out. However, Magic's rudder floats! I recently found that out the hard way when the rudder stock broke inside the rudder (during a race) and the rudder floated away. > > I have attached three photos and the Edson PDF that describes > installation of the stuffing box (page 5). > > If you like, I can fill in the details on the phone. Contact me off-line. > > Regards, > Michael > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> wrote: > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@...> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael, thanks...posted pictures this morning on my second page. > > > > I've isolated the problem to the rudder post after unhooking > everything. Maybe a better > > question is to ask for an explanation of the design of the rudder > support/ packing gland > > assembly. That way I can appreciate the issues. > > > > I feel I need to "hone" out the fiberglass rudder tube, both upper and > lower to clean it and > > provide a real smooth surface....clean with acetone and then find the right lubrication. > > After that, put back together. > > > > I have to ask the question again....I can't figure out how the rudder post is held in place. > > Is is strickly friction and the buoyancy of the rudder? The Pin for > the pendant just holds > > the pendant in place... > > > > > > --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Michael D <mddfl@> wrote: > > > > > > James, > > > > > > I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, > > here are some > > thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at > the rudder post or with the > > binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with > the steering cables free > > from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the > Edson pull-pull > > steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than over sheaves. > > > > > > As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found > > 5/16" graphite > > packing worked better for me. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Michael Duvall > > > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > > > Pompano Beach, FL > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> wrote: > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my > > attention to > > the sticky > > > > > > rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the > > wheel. I've removed teh > > pin > > > > > > at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the > > rudder and I am now > > > > > > wondering what my next steps are? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying > > to free up the > > rotation > > > > > > and reassemble. > > > > > > > > > > > > The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the > > lower collar has a > > stiff > > > > > > tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas tube.... > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the > > rudder in place other > > than > > > > > > the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can > > I get this back > > > > > > together? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post pictures tomorrow. > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > >

Wilkie, corrosion has wasted my pendant, however the pulley's look fine. Yes, I was talking about the hose that connected the stuffing box to the rudder tube. Whole new vocabulary for me, thanks for clarifying. I'm going to have to find a new quadrant, however. If I plan on changing out the Farymann this winter for a Beta Marine....fuel tank, etc. I'll wait until there's the room to get in there go to town while I have room. I'll wait before I glass it in for now. You were right Wilkie regarding room to work going through the lazarette...very comfy...fetal position took me back to 1963 and my 3rd trimester! James --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Wilkie" <wilkie@...> wrote: > > > > James (and Michael,) > > I've been missing these messages for some Yahoo related glitch I suppose. > I'm having trouble understanding this sentence: "Somehow, I don't think the > rudder tube is secured to the hull at the lower tube. I didn't "re-align" > the tube as you recommended, however I'll try and do that when I replace my > quadrant." > > Since the boat would sink like a rock if the rudder tube wasn't attached to > the hull, I think you are talking about the hose that joins the stuffing box > to the rudder tube. The stuffing box seemed to align itself once the ruder > post was through the bottom tube and into the bearing at the top (with the > huge hose clamps loose, of course.) Then the clamps are tightened and it's > good to go. > > I like the idea of glassing the stuffing box in place -- can't reason any > downside to doing that, other than not being able to adjust for wear. But > what wear? > > Another source of drag and stiffness on Mariposa was the idler pulleys > underneath the steering pedestal. Those blocks are aluminum and like to > corrode and jam up. I am due to R&R them again. > > Wilkie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of James Bibb > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:52 PM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) > > Thanks again Michael. > > I can't pull up your attached photos, sent you an email with my Mac address. > I put it all back together this morning and found out that my cast aluminum > quadrant is broken. It'll hold until I get another one from Edsen. It made > me thankful at getting under the deck at the stern and pulling things > apart....that would have failed at a very in-opportune time! > > I lubed things up pretty good...replaced the packing from the stuffing box > and screwed everything down. Somehow, I don't think the rudder tube is > secured to the hull at the lower tube. I didn't "re-align" the tube as you > recommended, however i'll try and do that when I replace my quadrant. > > There was an amazing amount of corrosion with the aluminum quadrant...the ss > bolts closing it on the sides completely sheared off as well as a break > clean through at the quadrant where it clamps around the post. > > I'm thinking that a lack of maintenance was the culprit as well as the > stickiness of the rudder shaft...having to exert so much pressure on the > quadrant, it eventually just sheared. > > Another part of the boat now familiar to me. I feel good about that. > > Thank you very much for your time, responding. I may give you a call to talk > about the details. > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , > Michael D <mddfl@> wrote: > > > > James, > > > > I found your photo of the stuffing box. It appears that it is secured > > to the rudder tube > with SS clamps. This is what I suspect has lost it's alignment. With > Magic, the stuffing box is secured to the rudder tube with FRP. Take a look > at the attached photos. > > > > Since you have determined that the "stickiness" is definitely at the > > rudder tube, I > recommend that you remove the packing from the stuffing box, remove the SS > clamps, reinstall the rudder, and realign the stuffing box with the rudder > stock. That should clear up the stickiness. Also, for lubrication on the > rudder stock and tube I used Lanocote. It seems to work pretty well. > > > > Edson instructions recommend that the stuffing box be secured to the > > rudder tube with > glass mat saturated with resin. It's messy, but it works well. The rudder > stock continues up into the cockpit where there is a tiller head fitting, > preventing the rudder from "falling" > out. However, Magic's rudder floats! I recently found that out the hard > way when the rudder stock broke inside the rudder (during a race) and the > rudder floated away. > > > > I have attached three photos and the Edson PDF that describes > > installation of the > stuffing box (page 5). > > > > If you like, I can fill in the details on the phone. Contact me off-line. > > > > Regards, > > Michael > > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> wrote: > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@> > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question (James) > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael, thanks...posted pictures this morning on my second page. > > > > > > > > I've isolated the problem to the rudder post after unhooking > > everything. Maybe a better > > > > question is to ask for an explanation of the design of the rudder > > support/ packing gland > > > > assembly. That way I can appreciate the issues. > > > > > > > > I feel I need to "hone" out the fiberglass rudder tube, both upper and > > lower to clean it > and > > > > provide a real smooth surface....clean with acetone and then find the > right lubrication. > > > > After that, put back together. > > > > > > > > I have to ask the question again....I can't figure out how the rudder post > is held in place. > > > > Is is strickly friction and the buoyancy of the rudder? The Pin for > > the pendant just holds > > > > the pendant in place... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Michael D <mddfl@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > James, > > > > > > > > > > I look forward to seeing some of the photos... In the meantime, > > > here are some > > > > thoughts. First of all, the stickiness you are having is either at > > the rudder post or with > the > > > > binnacle. You first need to isolate the problem. In my case, with > > the steering cables > free > > > > from the quadrant, the rudder moves freely. Our Cal 2-27 uses the > > Edson pull-pull > > > > steering system, where the SS cables are fed through conduit rather than > over sheaves. > > > > > > > > > > As for the stuffing box Edson recommends 3/8" packing, but I found > > > 5/16" graphite > > > > packing worked better for me. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Michael Duvall > > > > > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > > > > > Pompano Beach, FL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> wrote: > > > > > From: James Bibb <jamesbibb84@ ...> > > > > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] 2-29 Rudder Post Maintenance Question > > > > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 1:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While my 2-29's out of the water for a fall painting, I've turned my > > > attention to > > > > the sticky > > > > > > > > > > rudder....very sticky and requiring a lot of torque move with the > > > wheel. I've removed > teh > > > > pin > > > > > > > > > > at the quadrant, disassembled the steering quadrant , dropped the > > > rudder and I am > now > > > > > > > > > > wondering what my next steps are? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have zero play and I'm wondering what my next steps are in trying > > > to free up the > > > > rotation > > > > > > > > > > and reassemble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The there are two bronze collars with packing material between the > > > lower collar has a > > > > stiff > > > > > > > > > > tube, with large ss clamps between the collar and the lower fiberglas > tube.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what have other folks done with maintenance? What kept the > > > rudder in place > other > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > the quadrant? Can I upgrade to a better packing gland....and how can > > > I get this back > > > > > > > > > > together? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll post pictures tomorrow. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > >

Hello All, I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated. BTW, I already know about the available references, such as Ashley Book of Knots. Regards, Michael

Michael D wrote: > > Hello All, > > I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm > not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some > interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and > turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any > suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated. > My usual suggestion is "get a tiller." But that always sets off a war between the tillerites and the wheelites, so I won't suggest it. Chris Campbell > >

I'd echo Chris's comments about tillers, but I'd also like to add this reference to my favorite how-to-tie-it books: the Marlinspike Sailor. http://www.amazon.com/Marlinspike-Sailor-Hervey-Garrett-Smith/dp/0070592187<http://www.amazon.com/Marlinspike-Sailor-Hervey-Garrett-Smith/dp/0070592187> Fin Beven ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Campbell<mailto:cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel Michael D wrote: Hello All, I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated. My usual suggestion is "get a tiller." But that always sets off a war between the tillerites and the wheelites, so I won't suggest it. Chris Campbell

Do you have a copy of The Complete Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss? He's got some great stuff in there. Chapter 10 is fancy stuff. Better explained than Ashley. Good ideas on Turk's heads around spokes. Kevin Michael D wrote: > > Hello All, > > I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm > not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some > interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and > turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any > suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated. BTW, I already know > about the available references, such as Ashley Book of Knots. > > Regards, > Michael > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1721 - Release Date: 10/12/2008 12:00 PM >

I'd also recommend the tiller solution, but as you say, let's not start a war. (Major regret with current big boat, has a wheel. Oh well, the Melonseed has a tiller.) td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of Chris Campbell Sent: Mon 10/13/2008 5:00 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel Michael D wrote: > > Hello All, > > I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm > not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some > interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and > turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any > suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated. > My usual suggestion is "get a tiller." But that always sets off a war between the tillerites and the wheelites, so I won't suggest it. Chris Campbell > > DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Hi, Thanks for your input, but I'm not going to remove the pedestal, wheel, cabling, quadrant, etc. and replace it with a tiller. I'm assuming that no one here has taken the time to undertake such a project on a wheel or a tiller. Michael --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> wrote: From: Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 7:35 AM I'd also recommend the tiller solution, but as you say, let's not start a war. (Major regret with current big boat, has a wheel. Oh well, the Melonseed has a tiller.) td From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com on behalf of Chris Campbell Sent: Mon 10/13/2008 5:00 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel Michael D wrote: > > Hello All, > > I bought some 1/8" nylon line to whip the SS wheel on Magic. Now I'm > not quite sure as to what hitches/knots to go with. I found some > interesting information about ringbolt hitching, cockscombing, and > turks head knots. Has anyone here taken the time to do this? Any > suggestions/ recommendations will be appreciated. > My usual suggestion is "get a tiller." But that always sets off a war between the tillerites and the wheelites, so I won't suggest it. Chris Campbell > > DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Michael, I did do the wheel whipping thing. My 20" wheel took almost 200' of line. I put 2 Turks heads at the top, one on each side of the king spoke. I used a clove hitch based wrap, and that makes a spiral around the outside. On the spokes I used a double line, and that ends up with a double spiral. Try out ideas on a short rod or dowel to see what it will look like. It gives the wheel a real good grip, and helps when it is cold. It is a little harder to keep clean. If you do this, make sure to get the line real tight, I used pliers to pull the knots. I've had it for about 4 years, and no unraveling yet. It's a fun project, go for it! -- Carl Cal 34III Nauta On 10/14/08, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for your input, but I'm not going to remove the pedestal, wheel, > cabling, quadrant, etc. and replace it with a tiller. I'm assuming that no > one here has taken the time to undertake such a project on a wheel or a > tiller. > > Michael > > >

A little heresy perhaps: as far as keeping it clean, an alternative is to use black line, (here comes the heresy) common on power boats. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of Carl Sent: Tue 10/14/2008 10:06 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who Replied) Michael, I did do the wheel whipping thing. My 20" wheel took almost 200' of line. I put 2 Turks heads at the top, one on each side of the king spoke. I used a clove hitch based wrap, and that makes a spiral around the outside. On the spokes I used a double line, and that ends up with a double spiral. Try out ideas on a short rod or dowel to see what it will look like. It gives the wheel a real good grip, and helps when it is cold. It is a little harder to keep clean. If you do this, make sure to get the line real tight, I used pliers to pull the knots. I've had it for about 4 years, and no unraveling yet. It's a fun project, go for it! -- Carl Cal 34III Nauta On 10/14/08, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for your input, but I'm not going to remove the pedestal, wheel, > cabling, quadrant, etc. and replace it with a tiller. I'm assuming that no > one here has taken the time to undertake such a project on a wheel or a > tiller. > > Michael > > > DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Here's another heresy, my boat came from the PO with a whipped wheel. Looked salty but was kind of hard on the hands. I removed it. Cold steel is okay when warm, but cool days made my hands ache. I discovered an outfit called ColorWheelz that will coat your wheel with I guess vinyl. I love it. And they have lots of colors. Regards, David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> wrote: > From: Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who Replied) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 6:00 AM > A little heresy perhaps: as far as keeping it clean, > an alternative is to use black line, (here comes the > heresy) common on power boats. > > td > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of Carl > Sent: Tue 10/14/2008 10:06 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who > Replied) > > Michael, > > I did do the wheel whipping thing. My 20" wheel took > almost 200' of line. I > put 2 Turks heads at the top, one on each side of the king > spoke. I used a > clove hitch based wrap, and that makes a spiral around the > outside. On the > spokes I used a double line, and that ends up with a double > spiral. Try out > ideas on a short rod or dowel to see what it will look > like. It gives the > wheel a real good grip, and helps when it is cold. It is a > little harder to > keep clean. If you do this, make sure to get the line real > tight, I used > pliers to pull the knots. I've had it for about 4 > years, and no unraveling > yet. > It's a fun project, go for it! > > -- > Carl > Cal 34III > Nauta > > > > > On 10/14/08, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for your input, but I'm not going to remove > the pedestal, wheel, > > cabling, quadrant, etc. and replace it with a tiller. > I'm assuming that no > > one here has taken the time to undertake such a > project on a wheel or a > > tiller. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: > Important Notice > ************************************************* > This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, > privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you > are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not > duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it > and any attachments and notify the sender that you have > received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited > from taking action on the basis of information in this > e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other > defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, > or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without > the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If > you are not comfortable with the risks associated with > e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to > communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent > and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to > retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from > its systems.

Another alternative is a leather cover. There are a few vendors offering pre-made and packaged kits. Cord whipping is hard on the hands. I don't usually wear gloves on a boat, except for cold. When doing a long spell on a cord whipped wheel, I put on the light gloves. I've got a wood covered wheel on my boat, which gives a fairly good grip, and is easy when cold. but that's a much more expensive alternative, unless you can do it yourself. td From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of david dobbs Sent: Wed 10/15/2008 11:02 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who Replied) Here's another heresy, my boat came from the PO with a whipped wheel. Looked salty but was kind of hard on the hands. I removed it. Cold steel is okay when warm, but cool days made my hands ache. I discovered an outfit called ColorWheelz that will coat your wheel with I guess vinyl. I love it. And they have lots of colors. Regards, David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> wrote: > From: Downing, Thomas <Th… [at] ipc.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who Replied) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 6:00 AM > A little heresy perhaps: as far as keeping it clean, > an alternative is to use black line, (here comes the > heresy) common on power boats. > > td > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com on behalf of Carl > Sent: Tue 10/14/2008 10:06 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Whipping the Wheel (All Who > Replied) > > Michael, > > I did do the wheel whipping thing. My 20" wheel took > almost 200' of line. I > put 2 Turks heads at the top, one on each side of the king > spoke. I used a > clove hitch based wrap, and that makes a spiral around the > outside. On the > spokes I used a double line, and that ends up with a double > spiral. Try out > ideas on a short rod or dowel to see what it will look > like. It gives the > wheel a real good grip, and helps when it is cold. It is a > little harder to > keep clean. If you do this, make sure to get the line real > tight, I used > pliers to pull the knots. I've had it for about 4 > years, and no unraveling > yet. > It's a fun project, go for it! > > -- > Carl > Cal 34III > Nauta > > > > > On 10/14/08, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for your input, but I'm not going to remove > the pedestal, wheel, > > cabling, quadrant, etc. and replace it with a tiller. > I'm assuming that no > > one here has taken the time to undertake such a > project on a wheel or a > > tiller. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: > Important Notice > ************************************************* > This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, > privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you > are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not > duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it > and any attachments and notify the sender that you have > received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited > from taking action on the basis of information in this > e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other > defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, > or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without > the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If > you are not comfortable with the risks associated with > e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to > communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent > and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to > retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from > its systems. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems.

Hi Michael, I picked up a wonderful book awhile back, by Don Casey, called '100 Fast and Easy Boat Improvements'. I love poring over the thing, and already have my list of what I want to implement this winter. It describes using something called 'coachwhipping', which looks just like any other braiding I've done in the past, with the furthest two strips woven forward. It says to plan on using strips about twice the circumference of the wheel. The pictures show the top tied to the wheel and one foot of play for each strip, the rest rolled up to stay out of the way. Anne Racel CAL 2-29 4 Degrees

Is the vinyl slippery when it's wet? I saw that at the show and it looks interesting. I use http://www.boatleather.com, They're out of Seattle. A great product. -JD Cal 33-2 On Oct 15, 2008, at 23:02 , david dobbs wrote: > Here's another heresy, my boat came from the PO with a whipped > wheel. Looked salty but was kind of hard on the hands. I removed > it. Cold steel is okay when warm, but cool days made my hands > ache. I discovered an outfit called ColorWheelz that will coat your > wheel with I guess vinyl. I love it. And they have lots of colors. > Regards, > David Dobbs > Cal29 411 >