The Best Stuff for...

Hi, All. Was looking at the Sunday paper. Everybody is doing "Best of" and "Worst of" 2008 (emphasis on the latter these days). Got a thought that such a pair of lists would be a good thing for our group since we do many repair/rehab jobs on our boats. Lately, we had items on interior woods, oil filters, and the like. Not that I want a flood of stuff, but over time I (as a volunteer) or we could compile the lists for future reference. Would be like the Guinness Book in that anything for the boat is fair game. Would probably concentrate on "Bests" since trashing things is not really fun (unless the lack of quality is truly notable), and would be too much like other places on the Web. Figure I would ask periodic questions on items, and pull off others that come up in group discussions. That said, the following statement is germane: Two CAL 25 owners is a discussion; three CAL 25 owners is an argument; four CAL 25 owners is a brawl. We never agree on anything. I'm sure similar things would occur here. Rambling further (please stick with me), I am rebuilding my (other) CAL 25 in scenic Deale, MD. Replacing some interior wood facings (using Okume ply), redoing the bottom after a "chippy" soda blasting job left a lot of dings (using primarily 3M premium filler), and refilling all deck hardware holes (Maas epoxy), reseating all deck wood coamings (3M 4200 UV fast), repainting non-skid areas (no sand primer and Interlux one part with grains) and other deck areas, among others. You get the idea. NOW FINALLY FOR MY REAL QUESTION!! Ta-da. After I fill the deck holes, there is always a negative meniscus (indent) because the liquid soaks in. Many, Many holes due to different hardware layouts over 35 years. I have tried different compositions for the final fill and sand of the holes prior to painting (typically West or other epoxy with low density thickener). Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surface job was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears through the paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? What is the "best" stuff to use for the surface fill-in of the holes in the deck? Needs to be sandable, and to smooth well, and not end up showing the hole outlines. Sure was a long way to ask a short question. 65 degrees today! Need to get off to the boat yard before the rain starts this PM. Cheers Charlie Annapolis

speaking of toe rails>>>>>>>>>> thinking of removing the wooden toe rails on the CC36 to chase a leak or two. At the risk of committiong a travesty, anyone have knowledge of replacing the wood with more modern toe rail? suggestions? castigations? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.comFrom: hu… [at] bah.comDate: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:23:05 -0500Subject: [Cal_Boats] The Best Stuff for... Hi, All. Was looking at the Sunday paper. Everybody is doing "Best of"and "Worst of" 2008 (emphasis on the latter these days). Got a thoughtthat such a pair of lists would be a good thing for our group since wedo many repair/rehab jobs on our boats. Lately, we had items oninterior woods, oil filters, and the like. Not that I want a flood ofstuff, but over time I (as a volunteer) or we could compile the listsfor future reference. Would be like the Guinness Book in that anythingfor the boat is fair game. Would probably concentrate on "Bests" sincetrashing things is not really fun (unless the lack of quality is trulynotable), and would be too much like other places on the Web. Figure Iwould ask periodic questions on items, and pull off others that come upin group discussions. That said, the following statement is germane:Two CAL 25 owners is a discussion; three CAL 25 owners is an argument;four CAL 25 owners is a brawl. We never agree on anything. I'm suresimilar things would occur here.Rambling further (please stick with me), I am rebuilding my (other) CAL25 in scenic Deale, MD. Replacing some interior wood facings (usingOkume ply), redoing the bottom after a "chippy" soda blasting job left alot of dings (using primarily 3M premium filler), and refilling all deckhardware holes (Maas epoxy), reseating all deck wood coamings (3M 4200UV fast), repainting non-skid areas (no sand primer and Interlux onepart with grains) and other deck areas, among others. You get the idea.NOW FINALLY FOR MY REAL QUESTION!! Ta-da. After I fill the deck holes,there is always a negative meniscus (indent) because the liquid soaksin. Many, Many holes due to different hardware layouts over 35 years.I have tried different compositions for the final fill and sand of theholes prior to painting (typically West or other epoxy with low densitythickener). Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surfacejob was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears throughthe paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? What is the "best" stuff to use for the surface fill-in of the holes inthe deck? Needs to be sandable, and to smooth well, and not end upshowing the hole outlines.Sure was a long way to ask a short question. 65 degrees today! Need toget off to the boat yard before the rain starts this PM.CheersCharlieAnnapolis

My L-36 is wood so take my advice with a large grain of salt. I use Formula 27 for the final fills and don't have the problem you are talking about. If I had the problem you have and a fiberglass boat, I would counter sink the fiberglass prior to filling so that there would be more surface area for the filler to stick to. Obviously you want to sand the dimple first so that the wax stuff goes away and there is a good surface for the final filler to stick to. Hope this helps, Allen --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Hi, All. Was looking at the Sunday paper. Everybody is doing "Best of" > and "Worst of" 2008 (emphasis on the latter these days). Got a thought > that such a pair of lists would be a good thing for our group since we > do many repair/rehab jobs on our boats. Lately, we had items on > interior woods, oil filters, and the like. Not that I want a flood of > stuff, but over time I (as a volunteer) or we could compile the lists > for future reference. Would be like the Guinness Book in that anything > for the boat is fair game. Would probably concentrate on "Bests" since > trashing things is not really fun (unless the lack of quality is truly > notable), and would be too much like other places on the Web. Figure I > would ask periodic questions on items, and pull off others that come up > in group discussions. > > That said, the following statement is germane: > > Two CAL 25 owners is a discussion; three CAL 25 owners is an argument; > four CAL 25 owners is a brawl. We never agree on anything. I'm sure > similar things would occur here. > > Rambling further (please stick with me), I am rebuilding my (other) CAL > 25 in scenic Deale, MD. Replacing some interior wood facings (using > Okume ply), redoing the bottom after a "chippy" soda blasting job left a > lot of dings (using primarily 3M premium filler), and refilling all deck > hardware holes (Maas epoxy), reseating all deck wood coamings (3M 4200 > UV fast), repainting non-skid areas (no sand primer and Interlux one > part with grains) and other deck areas, among others. You get the idea. > > NOW FINALLY FOR MY REAL QUESTION!! Ta-da. After I fill the deck holes, > there is always a negative meniscus (indent) because the liquid soaks > in. Many, Many holes due to different hardware layouts over 35 years. > I have tried different compositions for the final fill and sand of the > holes prior to painting (typically West or other epoxy with low density > thickener). Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surface > job was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears through > the paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? > > What is the "best" stuff to use for the surface fill-in of the holes in > the deck? Needs to be sandable, and to smooth well, and not end up > showing the hole outlines. > > Sure was a long way to ask a short question. 65 degrees today! Need to > get off to the boat yard before the rain starts this PM. > > Cheers > Charlie > Annapolis >

Thanks, Allen. I do countersink and sand and chemically treat prior to surface filling. It takes a while for the effect to show up. That is why I suspect shrinkage. Formula 27, eh? Can't hurt to try. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of xhpspd Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:51 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: The Best Stuff for... My L-36 is wood so take my advice with a large grain of salt. I use Formula 27 for the final fills and don't have the problem you are talking about. If I had the problem you have and a fiberglass boat, I would counter sink the fiberglass prior to filling so that there would be more surface area for the filler to stick to. Obviously you want to sand the dimple first so that the wax stuff goes away and there is a good surface for the final filler to stick to. Hope this helps, Allen --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Hi, All. Was looking at the Sunday paper. Everybody is doing "Best of" > and "Worst of" 2008 (emphasis on the latter these days). Got a thought > that such a pair of lists would be a good thing for our group since we > do many repair/rehab jobs on our boats. Lately, we had items on > interior woods, oil filters, and the like. Not that I want a flood of > stuff, but over time I (as a volunteer) or we could compile the lists > for future reference. Would be like the Guinness Book in that anything > for the boat is fair game. Would probably concentrate on "Bests" since > trashing things is not really fun (unless the lack of quality is truly > notable), and would be too much like other places on the Web. Figure I > would ask periodic questions on items, and pull off others that come up > in group discussions. > > That said, the following statement is germane: > > Two CAL 25 owners is a discussion; three CAL 25 owners is an argument; > four CAL 25 owners is a brawl. We never agree on anything. I'm sure > similar things would occur here. > > Rambling further (please stick with me), I am rebuilding my (other) CAL > 25 in scenic Deale, MD. Replacing some interior wood facings (using > Okume ply), redoing the bottom after a "chippy" soda blasting job left a > lot of dings (using primarily 3M premium filler), and refilling all deck > hardware holes (Maas epoxy), reseating all deck wood coamings (3M 4200 > UV fast), repainting non-skid areas (no sand primer and Interlux one > part with grains) and other deck areas, among others. You get the idea. > > NOW FINALLY FOR MY REAL QUESTION!! Ta-da. After I fill the deck holes, > there is always a negative meniscus (indent) because the liquid soaks > in. Many, Many holes due to different hardware layouts over 35 years. > I have tried different compositions for the final fill and sand of the > holes prior to painting (typically West or other epoxy with low density > thickener). Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surface > job was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears through > the paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? > > What is the "best" stuff to use for the surface fill-in of the holes in > the deck? Needs to be sandable, and to smooth well, and not end up > showing the hole outlines. > > Sure was a long way to ask a short question. 65 degrees today! Need to > get off to the boat yard before the rain starts this PM. > > Cheers > Charlie > Annapolis > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surface > job was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears through > the paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? > The Gougeon Brothers' technical folks are always good at answering questions like this, especially since most of them are active and creative users of their products. Give 'em a call or e-mail and see what they say. Chris Campbell

Charlie, I've been working on filling holes on boats for a bit now and have found that the West Systems works well for me. I use the low density filler (407) and make sure I do all the surface prep. Sand, clean, acetone wash, fresh water rinse and dry thoroughly. The cleaner the better. Shortcuts have worked, but not with the best results. If you chamfer the hole then it is harder for the filler to pull away from the sides. If you don't chamfer the edges the filler will pull away from the sides and leave the hairline crack around the hole. Someone else mentioned using a countersink bit and that works. Also, if you overfill a little bit, it will alleviate the issue of leaving a dimple in the middle. Just sand smooth the excess. If you have a hole in your antiskid, that's a different story... The gel coat and antiskid are polyester resin and gel coat doesn't stick to epoxy properly (if you happened to fill the hole with epoxy). The best thing to do is to fill the hole with a mixture of gel coat and colloidal silica thickened to peanut butter consistency after chamfering, sanding, cleaning etc. To duplicate your anti skid pattern, get a can of mold release spray, spray on a section of your anti skid and then smear a 1 by 1 area with silicone RTV. When this cures, peel it up and you will have a piece of antiskid pattern. Take a needle and poke through the indentations. This is to allow air to escape. Spray with mold release, align it (!) and press it over your gel coat application before it cures. When it is cured, the pattern piece will peel right off and you should have an uninterrupted antiskid pattern. The silicone piece will be reusable. Hope this helps. Mike Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > NOW FINALLY FOR MY REAL QUESTION!! Ta-da. After I fill the deck holes, > there is always a negative meniscus (indent) because the liquid soaks > in. Many, Many holes due to different hardware layouts over 35 years. > I have tried different compositions for the final fill and sand of the > holes prior to painting (typically West or other epoxy with low density > thickener). Invariably after a while, no matter how smooth the surface > job was prior to painting, the outline of the holes reappears through > the paint. Does the fill shrink a bit? > > What is the "best" stuff to use for the surface fill-in of the holes in > the deck? Needs to be sandable, and to smooth well, and not end up > showing the hole outlines. > > Sure was a long way to ask a short question. 65 degrees today! 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