sunbrella

I just had an interesting conversation today. I have a sunbrella fabric main cover that is a little over three years old. A few weeks ago I noticed a number of spots where the fabric is showing sun damage. I called the canvas shop and he called me back today after looking at the boat. He said that white sunbrella has poor resistance to UV radiation because the white color has no pigment to protect it. I've had white boat canvas for 35 years and have never seen this. The main cover is only 3 years old ! The canvas guy also said that the sunbrella guarantee is not very good because it only covers the fabric, which is a small part of the cost. I have never heard of this. I've had white for years on the assumption that it reflects the light and is less subject to UV damage than the darker colors that absorb more. Later this afternoon, I was in a patio shop and the woman there said she had never heard this either. Had I been told that the white color is less reliable, I would have had a color for the cover and dodger. I used to take the main off and the dodger off for the winter but didn't this year because the fabric is supposed to be UV resistant. I'm not very happy about this. Anybody else heard this ? Mike Kennedy

Mike, I remember hearing that white sails on hang gliders are the most sun resistant. That would probably be polyester material. What is Sunbrella made from? My 11 year old Sunbrella sail cover is Persian Green, it has held up really well except the material is starting to feel a bit dried up. The biggest problem I have is the sewing in the seams between the fabric and the vinyl where the toggles attach has gradually disintegrated, so I don't know if it makes sense to re sew it or just order a new cover. Of course, it is the seams exposed to the sun, like, the ones along the front of my mast, that have gone. The seam along the bottom of the boom still looks great. Also the leather trim has worn out from the sun exposure. Lately I've wondered about applying something like "Armor-all" to the material to restore it's plyability and softness. Oh yeah, I do remember hearing some colors last longer than others from the canvas shop owner at Anacappa Marine up in Channel Islands Marina. He said the Persian Green held up pretty good, and that's the color I went with. I was tired of looking at aqua blue covers, which he said also hold up real well. Jerry --- On Tue, 1/6/09, mtkennedy1 <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: mtkennedy1 <mt… [at] cox.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] sunbrella To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 8:58 PM I just had an interesting conversation today. I have a sunbrella fabric main cover that is a little over three years old. A few weeks ago I noticed a number of spots where the fabric is showing sun damage. I called the canvas shop and he called me back today after looking at the boat. He said that white sunbrella has poor resistance to UV radiation because the white color has no pigment to protect it. I've had white boat canvas for 35 years and have never seen this. The main cover is only 3 years old ! The canvas guy also said that the sunbrella guarantee is not very good because it only covers the fabric, which is a small part of the cost. I have never heard of this. I've had white for years on the assumption that it reflects the light and is less subject to UV damage than the darker colors that absorb more. Later this afternoon, I was in a patio shop and the woman there said she had never heard this either. Had I been told that the white color is less reliable, I would have had a color for the cover and dodger. I used to take the main off and the dodger off for the winter but didn't this year because the fabric is supposed to be UV resistant. I'm not very happy about this. Anybody else heard this ? Mike Kennedy

Mike, It is my understanding that Sunbrella fabric has the "best" resistance of all the modern "canvas" fabrics. There are several grades of sunbrella, fire resistance and weight for interior and exterior uses. I have seen some canvas fabrics wear as you are describing, but they are usually the "other brands". Usually the competitors fabric is much less than "sunbrella". I would recommend taking a sample of the fabric, or the cover to another canvas shop or fabric supplier to verify that the material is actually sunbrella. If you specified that material when you ordered the cover, you may have a solid position to have the cover remade to your original specs. http://www.sunbrella.com/na/en/marine.pl John From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:59 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] sunbrella I just had an interesting conversation today. I have a sunbrella fabric main cover that is a little over three years old. A few weeks ago I noticed a number of spots where the fabric is showing sun damage. I called the canvas shop and he called me back today after looking at the boat. He said that white sunbrella has poor resistance to UV radiation because the white color has no pigment to protect it. I've had white boat canvas for 35 years and have never seen this. The main cover is only 3 years old ! The canvas guy also said that the sunbrella guarantee is not very good because it only covers the fabric, which is a small part of the cost. I have never heard of this. I've had white for years on the assumption that it reflects the light and is less subject to UV damage than the darker colors that absorb more. Later this afternoon, I was in a patio shop and the woman there said she had never heard this either. Had I been told that the white color is less reliable, I would have had a color for the cover and dodger. I used to take the main off and the dodger off for the winter but didn't this year because the fabric is supposed to be UV resistant. I'm not very happy about this. Anybody else heard this ? Mike Kennedy

mtkennedy1 wrote: > > I just had an interesting conversation today. I have a sunbrella > fabric main cover that is a little over three years old. A few weeks > ago I noticed a number of spots where the fabric is showing sun > damage. I called the canvas shop and he called me back today after > looking at the boat. He said that white sunbrella has poor resistance > to UV radiation because the white color has no pigment to protect it. > > I have never heard of this. I've had white for years on the assumption > that it reflects the light and is less subject to UV damage than the > darker colors that absorb more. > My Cal 20 came with a sail cover made of some synthetic fabric in white. It was very old (probably 1960s or 70s) and was very fragile in places--it was thin and weakened, tearing easily. I bought some beige or tan synthetic fabric, unlabelled but purportedly Sunbrella, from a fabric cut-out shop, and stitched it over the old one, retaining only the edges of the old cover with their nice grommets and hooks. It has lasted a couple seasons here at 45 deg. N with no visible degradation. Just last week I re-stitched some of the hems on the old part of the cover--the stitching had rotted but the fabric on the bottom, away from the sun, was still intact. I have always made your assumption--white reflects, dark absorbs. In fact, as I recall from the early days of solar heating devices, when sunlight strikes a dark surface, the UV is absorbed and re-radiated as infrared (at the other end of the light spectrum). Maybe the engineers can explain the phenomenon more accurately. You'd think that this was more destructive to fabric than simple reflection. Three years seems awfully short for service lifetime. My other boat has a boom tent that's made of a vinyl coated fabric, like convertible top material but a bit lighter. Those have lasted just over 15 years each. Bear in mind that this is at about 43 deg. 40 ' N and the season is 5 mo. I am cringing because the last cover reached 15 years last summer and needs to be replaced this winter. $$$. I'll be supporting the Michigan economy, which needs it, but that is small consolation. Chris Campbell

Gerald Sobel wrote: > > The biggest problem I have is the sewing in the seams between the > fabric and the vinyl where the toggles attach has gradually > disintegrated, so I don't know if it makes sense to re sew it or just > order a new cover. Of course, it is the seams exposed to the sun, > like, the ones along the front of my mast, that have gone. > There are two solutions. You could buy a nice sewing machine from Sailrite and some good UV-resistant thread. Or you can find a nice old cast-iron home sewing machine, one of the black ones from Singer, White, National, etc. and find some heavy-duty thread locally. Sewing with a machine is not as mysterious as it looks. I've got a little old "New England Queen," a house-brand product made by National in the 20s or 30s, and I have stitched car upholstery (Naugahyde) with it. The Sailrite models will do a better job, because they can do a zig-zag and handle thick fabric with greater aplomb, but the cheap route works pretty well. Or, Jerry, just break down and pay your local sail or canvas shop to re-stitch the rotted parts. You won't have the sense of accomplishment from doing it your self but it ought to be pretty cheap. Chris Campbell > >

Mike, My experience is with both maroon and white sumbrella. I agree that the pigmented stuff lasts significantly longer. But the white should definitely last more than three years. My white lasted about 8 years before starting to degrade. I added sticky back dacron sail tape to the backside of the canvas to get another couple years out of it. I did not find the same problem when using white sunbrella as a UV cover on my jib. The UV cover outlasted the jib (9 years). This might be because the jib is vertical so it get less direct overhead sun exposure. Oh, I also find that the sunbrella, no matter what color, outlasts normal marine thread. I order Goretex thread on my canvases. Dave 80 Cal 35 Runnin Late Coyote Pt, SF Bay From: mtkennedy1 <mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 8:58:59 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] sunbrella

Sounds like a bit of a yarn to me. All the white canvas makes Conquest look really really sharp, so hopefully it's false, but that would lead to a different problem: the supplier in question. From: mtkennedy1 <mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 8:58:59 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] sunbrella I just had an interesting conversation today. I have a sunbrella fabric main cover that is a little over three years old. A few weeks ago I noticed a number of spots where the fabric is showing sun damage. I called the canvas shop and he called me back today after looking at the boat. He said that white sunbrella has poor resistance to UV radiation because the white color has no pigment to protect it. I've had white boat canvas for 35 years and have never seen this. The main cover is only 3 years old ! The canvas guy also said that the sunbrella guarantee is not very good because it only covers the fabric, which is a small part of the cost. I have never heard of this. I've had white for years on the assumption that it reflects the light and is less subject to UV damage than the darker colors that absorb more. Later this afternoon, I was in a patio shop and the woman there said she had never heard this either. Had I been told that the white color is less reliable, I would have had a color for the cover and dodger. I used to take the main off and the dodger off for the winter but didn't this year because the fabric is supposed to be UV resistant. I'm not very happy about this. Anybody else heard this ? Mike Kennedy

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Lord Nougat <lord_nougat@...> wrote: > > Sounds like a bit of a yarn to me. > All the white canvas makes Conquest look really really sharp, so hopefully it's false, but that would lead to a different problem: the supplier in question. The shop was Harbor Custom Canvas which has been around a long time and which has done work for me before. I'd hate to think they messed around with the material. I've contacted Sunbrella. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 By the way, I put Conquest up for sale as I am having more back trouble and didn't get out much last summer. My kids all seem busy with other things. If someone wants to go Transpac with a 40 this year, it's available. I'm pretty firm on the price so it may be a false alarm what with the economy. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: mtkennedy1 <mtkennedy1@...> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 8:58:59 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] sunbrella >

Sunbrella and most other simular materials are UV resistent to a point, If exposed to the sun, pollution, and other elments they will not hold up for ever. I treat my Sunbrella every 2 years with a UV protector. They can be found at most Chandleries. Dave --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Lord Nougat <lo… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: