Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / outboard discussion

Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should make a couple of remarks with regards to the original situation after all so that folks don't get the impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so that is the reasoning behind having an outboard 'onboard' ICOE... What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure out where it came from), the compression seems good and after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did not think of having the engine checked for potential detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, the water in the oil is back)... So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? Sabine Cal 3-30 "Estrella"

Water, particularly salt water in the oil can destroy an engine. The source must be discovered immediately, and repairs completed, or you risk the engine. Water can come from several sources - The raw water pump seals may be leaking water directly into the engine. The exhaust system is faulty or incorrectly designed. The head gasket is leaking. The head or block is internally rotted, allowing water to enter the oil pan. Joe DeMers Sound Marine Diesel LLC www.soundmarinediesel.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabine Faulhaber To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / outboard discussion Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should make a couple of remarks with regards to the original situation after all so that folks don't get the impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so that is the reasoning behind having an outboard 'onboard' ICOE... What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure out where it came from), the compression seems good and after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did not think of having the engine checked for potential detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, the water in the oil is back)... So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? Sabine Cal 3-30 "Estrella" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16 - Release Date: 1/30/2009 12:00 AM

First things first, Find out why you have so much water coming into the boat. IE stuffing box leaking, bad through hull, bad hose ect. this must be addressed asap as several hundred gallons of water in the boat is not a good thing, and you shouldn't be depending on your bilge pump to keep your boat floating... Next the engine problem, From you description of water in the engine I would say there is a problem in one or more of four areas. 1. you have water feeding back through the exhaust system. 2. You have a bad head gasket or head that has eroded and breached the combustion chamber. 3. you have a bad pump seal. 4. there is water in the fuel. Your description of black water in the oil is confusing, in most cases when water/salt water mixes with oil the oil turns milky brown. this would leave me to believe case #4 above, if water was in the fuel it would take some of the carbon out of the combustion chamber with it on the way out. these engines are know for having a lot of blow by witch would send water back into the crank case oil... Try some off the shelf additives to remove water from your fuel and see if that solves the problem... Cheers, Joe Underwood Cal 34 Huba Huba BMW TECH. Commodore Anacapa Yacht Club --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Joe DeMers <je… [at] mindspring.com> wrote: > From: Joe DeMers <je… [at] mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / outboard discussion > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:36 PM > Water, particularly salt water in the oil can destroy an > engine. The source must be discovered immediately, and > repairs completed, or you risk the engine. > > Water can come from several sources - > > The raw water pump seals may be leaking water directly into > the engine. > The exhaust system is faulty or incorrectly designed. > The head gasket is leaking. > > The head or block is internally rotted, allowing water to > enter the oil pan. > > > Joe DeMers > Sound Marine Diesel LLC > www.soundmarinediesel.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sabine Faulhaber > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:24 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / > outboard discussion > > > Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, > > > thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion > my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should > make a couple of remarks with regards to the original > situation after all so that folks don't get the > impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my > boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as > I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know > enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I > am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and > her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's > are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the > money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so > that is the reasoning behind having an outboard > 'onboard' ICOE... > > > What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked > me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella > (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started > developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and > eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was > water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure > out where it came from), the compression seems good and > after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running > fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the > bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of > gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did > not think of having the engine checked for potential > detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems > to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as > before (also, the water in the oil is back)... > > > So, that is the current status of the engine... Any > ideas? > > > Sabine > > > Cal 3-30 "Estrella" > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16 - Release > Date: 1/30/2009 12:00 AM

Hi Sabine Do you know how high on the engine the water got? Could water have entered the engine though vents? You must get the oil/filter changed ASAP. Engines don't like water mixed in their oil. Does engine run hot. Could have blown head gasket. (water in oil) There are ways to check these things. Do you have a water seperator filter on your fuel system? Did items like your starter get submerged? I agree with Randy the a 4 is a neat motor as long as it not rotten/rusted though. Chuck Second Fiddle --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Sabine Faulhaber <su… [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: Sabine Faulhaber <su… [at] yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / outboard discussion To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:24 PM Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should make a couple of remarks with regards to the original situation after all so that folks don't get the impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so that is the reasoning behind having an outboard 'onboard' ICOE... What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure out where it came from), the compression seems good and after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did not think of having the engine checked for potential detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, the water in the oil is back)... So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? Sabine Cal 3-30 "Estrella"

Do not up on the Atomic 4. Engines really do not get much simpler than an atomic 4. I ran one for 35 years in my CAL 30 before finally replacing it with another Atomic 4. You will be giving up a lot going to an out board and will only get marginal performance. There are two companies, Moyer Marine and Ingigo Electronics that manufacture Atomic 4 products. Moyer Marine as a discussion board over seen by Don Moyer who is the Guru of Atomic 4. They have everything from parts to complete engines. There manuals and dvds on the engine are also really good. I assume your engine is an original with no oil filter, raw water cooled, mechanical fuel pump and points for an ignition system. There is also two different models. The older model has a small prestolite distributor about 3 inches in diameter and an oil fill on the rear of the engine. The newer version has a delco distributor and an oil fill on the front of the engine about the fly wheel housing. On the older model the points and coil would be a problem as whenll as the mechanical fuel pump. There are lots of things you can check and fix relatively cheaply. Good luck Brent Jacobsen --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Sabine Faulhaber <supergirl_sb@...> wrote: > > Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, > > thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should make a couple of remarks with regards to the original situation after all so that folks don't get the impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so that is the reasoning behind having an outboard 'onboard' ICOE... > > What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure out where it came from), the compression seems good and after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did not think of having the engine checked for potential detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, the water in the oil is back)... > > So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? > > Sabine > > Cal 3-30 "Estrella" >

Also, check out www.bshmarine.com for more A4 new and used parts as well as rebuilts. Tom, Cal 46 & 25 --- On Mon, 2/9/09, BJake <be… [at] pacbell.net> wrote: From: BJake <be… [at] pacbell.net> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Update on Atomic 4 dilemma / outboard discussion To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:26 AM Do not up on the Atomic 4. Engines really do not get much simpler than an atomic 4. I ran one for 35 years in my CAL 30 before finally replacing it with another Atomic 4. You will be giving up a lot going to an out board and will only get marginal performance. There are two companies, Moyer Marine and Ingigo Electronics that manufacture Atomic 4 products. Moyer Marine as a discussion board over seen by Don Moyer who is the Guru of Atomic 4. They have everything from parts to complete engines. There manuals and dvds on the engine are also really good. I assume your engine is an original with no oil filter, raw water cooled, mechanical fuel pump and points for an ignition system. There is also two different models. The older model has a small prestolite distributor about 3 inches in diameter and an oil fill on the rear of the engine. The newer version has a delco distributor and an oil fill on the front of the engine about the fly wheel housing. On the older model the points and coil would be a problem as whenll as the mechanical fuel pump. There are lots of things you can check and fix relatively cheaply. Good luck Brent Jacobsen --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Sabine Faulhaber <supergirl_sb@ ...> wrote: > > Hello fellow Cal-boat owners, > > thanks for all the good input and the lively discussion my 'Atomic 4 dilemma' has caused. I think I should make a couple of remarks with regards to the original situation after all so that folks don't get the impression I am 'abandoning' the Atomic 4 in my boat. I fully intend to keep this engine runnning as long as I can - my problem as I mentioned is that I don't know enough about this engine yet to keep it purring (remember, I am a fairly new boat owner and even newer to this boat and her Atomic 4), my boating friends who have Atomic 4's are all fairly busy folks and I just don't have the money to sink into a professional taking care of it ... so that is the reasoning behind having an outboard 'onboard' ICOE... > > What is wrong with the Atomic 4 several people have asked me? Well, it ran fairly well when we first got Estrella (with the help of some starter flid) but then it started developing issues of suddenly stopping while running and eventually not starting any more. It turned out there was water in the oil (and no, our local expert can't figure out where it came from), the compression seems good and after a carburetor rebuild the engine seemed to be running fine - that is until my boat-partner turned off the bilge-pump one fine day and we had serval hundreds of gallons of water on the cabin floor. Unfortunately he did not think of having the engine checked for potential detrimental effects before trying to use it again - it seems to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, the water in the oil is back)... > > So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? > > Sabine > > Cal 3-30 "Estrella" >

> to have started o.k. but ended up stopping suddenly as before (also, > the water in the oil is back)... > > > > So, that is the current status of the engine... Any ideas? > > I am guessing a blown head gasket. Call Dave at Van Ness engineering and ask him. He walked me through replacing my head gasket, which I must admit turned out to be a significant job as I broke 5 head bolts and it took several days to drill them out. I have rebuilt a couple of hot rod engines so was comfortable doing the work myself, with Dave's guidance. In any event, he may be able to tell you what is going on. A blown head gasket should not really be a reason to get rid of an engine if that is what it is. That said, if you are getting gallons of water in the bilge, an obvious question is where is it coming from? You should be able to see that. Allen