Bottom Paint & Speed Logs

Hello Everyone, This topic will likely be as controversial as a tiller vs. the wheel.... Magic is being hauled on March 12th to get a new bottom. I have Miami Soda Blasters lined up to take all of the old paint off down to the gelcoat (or what ever is under the existing paint). I have a contractor lined up to redo the bottom, but at this time I haven't decided on which paint to use. Brenda and I are avid club racers, so we are thinking more about speed than durability. I know CAL saiors hail from all over, and the paint that is good for you may not be good for me. Afterall, we keep Magic in the water year round, with water temps from 70F in the winter months to 85F in the summer. I'd like to hear from anyone with bottom paint experience. At this time we are considering Pettit Vivid or Pettit Trinidad SR. Any other input that you can share will be greatly appreciated. BTW, thanks to Richard Anderson's input/research, I have ordered an Airmar DST800 transducer (bronze, speed, depth, temperature; NMEA 2000), and a Furuno FI-503 head display. Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL P.S. This weekend will the the Hillsboro Inlet Sailing Club annual circle raftup. You can watch it happen live at http://lakebocacam.com/ starting around noon EST Saturday. Two years ago, we had 60+ boats rafted.

Photo E-mail Play slideshow<http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1JmZao!iR2Cw0xkempWprU7YUqL!LcjkQCwwTVPE1FJZE3WKI9KtyN8JrCLMSpBw3ZBof!arB4**Q%24%24> | Download images <http://photos.msn.com/viewing/Photos.aspx?pi_Type=SlideshowTask&Task=Download&stppData=&pi_ImagesOnly=1&Folder=nBuRgwTGIGgOPXBotYNhUnHBal9xIHCDIwat1wtvGlg%24&User=heRNVFXLFsMMpW*cxAMk6D2wybruP2x*&pi_NoLogin=1> One vote for Petit ... Vivid ... white. I do not, however, know how it will respond to your warmer water. Our local waters range from about 58 to 70 degrees. We get wiped down every 2 weeks, and the bottom jobs seem to last 2 years (when the paint is nearly gone). Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA <http://photos.msn.com/Viewing/Album.aspx?PST=8nK2AN1B!1JmZao!iR2Cw0xkempWprU7YUqL!LcjkQCwwTVPE1FJZE3WKI9KtyN8JrCLMSpBw3ZBof!arB4**Q%24%24> ----- Original Message ----- From: md… [at] yahoo.com<mailto:md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:44 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bottom Paint & Speed Logs Hello Everyone, This topic will likely be as controversial as a tiller vs. the wheel.... Magic is being hauled on March 12th to get a new bottom. I have Miami Soda Blasters lined up to take all of the old paint off down to the gelcoat (or what ever is under the existing paint). I have a contractor lined up to redo the bottom, but at this time I haven't decided on which paint to use. Brenda and I are avid club racers, so we are thinking more about speed than durability. I know CAL saiors hail from all over, and the paint that is good for you may not be good for me. Afterall, we keep Magic in the water year round, with water temps from 70F in the winter months to 85F in the summer. I'd like to hear from anyone with bottom paint experience. At this time we are considering Pettit Vivid or Pettit Trinidad SR. Any other input that you can share will be greatly appreciated. BTW, thanks to Richard Anderson's input/research, I have ordered an Airmar DST800 transducer (bronze, speed, depth, temperature; NMEA 2000), and a Furuno FI-503 head display. Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL P.S. This weekend will the the Hillsboro Inlet Sailing Club annual circle raftup. You can watch it happen live at http://lakebocacam.com/<http://lakebocacam.com/> starting around noon EST Saturday. Two years ago, we had 60+ boats rafted. This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN<http://g.msn.com/0PHenus1/29>.

On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:44 AM, md… [at] yahoo.com wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > This topic will likely be as controversial as a tiller vs. the > wheel.... Magic is being hauled on March 12th to get a new bottom. > I have Miami Soda Blasters lined up to take all of the old paint off > down to the gelcoat (or what ever is under the existing paint). I > have a contractor lined up to redo the bottom, but at this time I > haven't decided on which paint to use. Brenda and I are avid club > racers, so we are thinking more about speed than durability. I know > CAL saiors hail from all over, and the paint that is good for you > may not be good for me. Afterall, we keep Magic in the water year > round, with water temps from 70F in the winter months to 85F in the > summer. > > I'd like to hear from anyone with bottom paint experience. At this > time we are considering Pettit Vivid or Pettit Trinidad SR. Any > other input that you can share will be greatly appreciated. I have Vivid white on Conquest. It seems like it would be difficult to get a really smooth bottom. We are not racing and would redo the bottom if we were. Anyway FWIW. When I had race boats, I used Baltoplate but the copper content has been reduced in recent years. You could really get it smooth though. We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your reflection in it. You have to like the color, of course. Like Henry Ford's black cars, it comes only in that chocolate color. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > BTW, thanks to Richard Anderson's input/research, I have ordered an > Airmar DST800 transducer (bronze, speed, depth, temperature; NMEA > 2000), and a Furuno FI-503 head display. > > Michael Duvall > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > P.S. This weekend will the the Hillsboro Inlet Sailing Club annual > circle raftup. You can watch it happen live at http://lakebocacam.com/ > starting around noon EST Saturday. Two years ago, we had 60+ boats > rafted. > > >

Hi, If you race your boat, go with VC17, it has teflon. I think they have various types for salt water, fresh water, etc, but usually needs to be recoated yearly. A good place to go is the West Marine catalog, they have good technical discussion sections to help people select products that are best suited for them. Nick - Jade - Cal 9.2 From: "Michael Kennedy" <mt… [at] cox.net> To: "Cal Boats" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:31:28 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Bottom Paint & Speed Logs On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:44 AM, md… [at] yahoo.com wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > This topic will likely be as controversial as a tiller vs. the > wheel.... Magic is being hauled on March 12th to get a new bottom. > I have Miami Soda Blasters lined up to take all of the old paint off > down to the gelcoat (or what ever is under the existing paint). I > have a contractor lined up to redo the bottom, but at this time I > haven't decided on which paint to use. Brenda and I are avid club > racers, so we are thinking more about speed than durability. I know > CAL saiors hail from all over, and the paint that is good for you > may not be good for me. Afterall, we keep Magic in the water year > round, with water temps from 70F in the winter months to 85F in the > summer. > > I'd like to hear from anyone with bottom paint experience. At this > time we are considering Pettit Vivid or Pettit Trinidad SR. Any > other input that you can share will be greatly appreciated. I have Vivid white on Conquest. It seems like it would be difficult to get a really smooth bottom. We are not racing and would redo the bottom if we were. Anyway FWIW. When I had race boats, I used Baltoplate but the copper content has been reduced in recent years. You could really get it smooth though. We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your reflection in it. You have to like the color, of course. Like Henry Ford's black cars, it comes only in that chocolate color. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > BTW, thanks to Richard Anderson's input/research, I have ordered an > Airmar DST800 transducer (bronze, speed, depth, temperature; NMEA > 2000), and a Furuno FI-503 head display. > > Michael Duvall > s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 > Pompano Beach, FL > > P.S. This weekend will the the Hillsboro Inlet Sailing Club annual > circle raftup. You can watch it happen live at http://lakebocacam.com/ > starting around noon EST Saturday. Two years ago, we had 60+ boats > rafted. > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Practical Sailor just did another one of their bottom paint tests - attached is the graph of their recommendations. I'll plunder the whole article for you if there aren't any Practical Sailor magazines handy where you are. From: "md… [at] yahoo.com" <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:44:43 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bottom Paint & Speed Logs Hello Everyone, This topic will likely be as controversial as a tiller vs. the wheel.... Magic is being hauled on March 12th to get a new bottom. I have Miami Soda Blasters lined up to take all of the old paint off down to the gelcoat (or what ever is under the existing paint). I have a contractor lined up to redo the bottom, but at this time I haven't decided on which paint to use. Brenda and I are avid club racers, so we are thinking more about speed than durability. I know CAL saiors hail from all over, and the paint that is good for you may not be good for me. Afterall, we keep Magic in the water year round, with water temps from 70F in the winter months to 85F in the summer. I'd like to hear from anyone with bottom paint experience. At this time we are considering Pettit Vivid or Pettit Trinidad SR. Any other input that you can share will be greatly appreciated. BTW, thanks to Richard Anderson's input/research, I have ordered an Airmar DST800 transducer (bronze, speed, depth, temperature; NMEA 2000), and a Furuno FI-503 head display. Michael Duvall s/v Magic, Cal 2-27 Pompano Beach, FL P.S. This weekend will the the Hillsboro Inlet Sailing Club annual circle raftup. You can watch it happen live at http://lakebocacam. com/ starting around noon EST Saturday. Two years ago, we had 60+ boats rafted.

You could really get it smooth though. > We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand > it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your > reflection in it. what does burnishing do besides allow one to preen? Reggie

Burnishing promotes laminar flow of water over the hull and keeps turbulence to a minimum. Turbulent flow by definition increases resistance to the boat traveling through the water as extra energy has to be put into the water to get it to move in a circular or turbid motion. Laminar flow requires the least energy as the water flows smoothly over the hull as it it displaced. For this reason, burnishing should be done at every point on the hull of the boat with the direction of the water flow in mind. Sanding motion should be back and forth in a direction that the water is expected to flow as the hull moves through the water. The smoother the bottom is and the more alignment between the burnishing and the water flow, the less the resistance will be as the hull displaces the water -- hence greater speed! A circular motion sander is not a good tool to use. Most avid racers use a 3M sanding block and a trickling hose with 600 grit paper to burnish the hull. And a perfectly smooth bottom paint will then reflect light evenly giving you that satisfying reflection of your sweating persona at a job well done! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:31:38 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint You could really get it smooth though. > We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand > it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your > reflection in it. what does burnishing do besides allow one to preen? Reggie

So, here go the Cal List people giving all the secrets away again. Just joking, Nick "Jade" From: "Donald Dutton" <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: "Cal Boats" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:39:33 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint Burnishing promotes laminar flow of water over the hull and keeps turbulence to a minimum. Turbulent flow by definition increases resistance to the boat traveling through the water as extra energy has to be put into the water to get it to move in a circular or turbid motion. Laminar flow requires the least energy as the water flows smoothly over the hull as it it displaced. For this reason, burnishing should be done at every point on the hull of the boat with the direction of the water flow in mind. Sanding motion should be back and forth in a direction that the water is expected to flow as the hull moves through the water. The smoother the bottom is and the more alignment between the burnishing and the water flow, the less the resistance will be as the hull displaces the water -- hence greater speed! A circular motion sander is not a good tool to use. Most avid racers use a 3M sanding block and a trickling hose with 600 grit paper to burnish the hull. And a perfectly smooth bottom paint will then reflect light evenly giving you that satisfying reflection of your sweating persona at a job well done! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:31:38 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint You could really get it smooth though. > We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand > it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your > reflection in it. what does burnishing do besides allow one to preen? Reggie

Michael, I've had very good luck in terms of durability with Pettit Trinidad SR (3years) and it rates tops in terms of durability in the latest PS test. It's not a racing paint but Practical Sailor said it could be polished to provide decent race performance. I'd recommend taking Lord Nougart's offer to send you the whole article if you can't get a copy. Dave 80 Cal 35 Runnin Late Coyote Pt, SF Bay From: "md… [at] yahoo.com" <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:44:43 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Bottom Paint & Speed Logs

We learned the lesson of laminar flow early in our sailing career. Back in our Flying Scot days in Texas the reigning Texas District Champion Bill Berry taught us to keep the hull very clean and highly waxed. We did very well with this in Texas. But then we would come up against the, then just beginning, Eagan brothers out of Bay Waveland Yacht Club and in smooth water they would just walk away from us. One regatta I came down to Seabrook Sailing Club at 6:00am and there were the Eagans with their Flying Scot hanging fromt he hoist wet sanding the bottom with 1000 grit sand paper up and down the hull in the direction of water flow. Well, we dumped our boats off the trailers and onto the front lawn and killed the grass we used so much acetone getting the wax off quickly! Then we got the hose out and started sanding. By the 10:00am gun we were finally able to keep boat speed with the Eagans -- although they eventually beat us anyhow. It turns out that the wax was causing the water to "bead" and the bubbles that formed in the edges of the surface tension beads were enough turbulance to slow the boat down. With the wax gone and the hull sanded the boat moved smoothly through the water and sailed faster. Similar to discussion about the outboard well in the cockpit of some Cals we found that the centerboard gasket was also critical to boat speed. Water that entered the centerboard trunk while sailing would exit in bursts causing turbulence and drag. With a brand new gasket around the centerboard the water could not enter and exit while sailing and the boat moved faster. So, anything you can do to seal the outboard well against water while sailing should increase your boatspeed as well as keeping you from getting splashed. Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "ng… [at] comcast.net" <ng… [at] comcast.net> To: Cal Boats <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:04:51 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint So, here go the Cal List people giving all the secrets away again. Just joking, Nick "Jade" Burnishing promotes laminar flow of water over the hull and keeps turbulence to a minimum. Turbulent flow by definition increases resistance to the boat traveling through the water as extra energy has to be put into the water to get it to move in a circular or turbid motion. Laminar flow requires the least energy as the water flows smoothly over the hull as it it displaced. For this reason, burnishing should be done at every point on the hull of the boat with the direction of the water flow in mind. Sanding motion should be back and forth in a direction that the water is expected to flow as the hull moves through the water. The smoother the bottom is and the more alignment between the burnishing and the water flow, the less the resistance will be as the hull displaces the water -- hence greater speed! A circular motion sander is not a good tool to use. Most avid racers use a 3M sanding block and a trickling hose with 600 grit paper to burnish the hull. And a perfectly smooth bottom paint will then reflect light evenly giving you that satisfying reflection of your sweating persona at a job well done! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain

thought some recent studies showed scales to be faster, like dimples on a golf ball To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ng… [at] comcast.net Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:04:51 +0000 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint So, here go the Cal List people giving all the secrets away again. Just joking, Nick "Jade" From: "Donald Dutton" <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: "Cal Boats" <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:39:33 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint Burnishing promotes laminar flow of water over the hull and keeps turbulence to a minimum. Turbulent flow by definition increases resistance to the boat traveling through the water as extra energy has to be put into the water to get it to move in a circular or turbid motion. Laminar flow requires the least energy as the water flows smoothly over the hull as it it displaced. For this reason, burnishing should be done at every point on the hull of the boat with the direction of the water flow in mind. Sanding motion should be back and forth in a direction that the water is expected to flow as the hull moves through the water. The smoother the bottom is and the more alignment between the burnishing and the water flow, the less the resistance will be as the hull displaces the water -- hence greater speed! A circular motion sander is not a good tool to use. Most avid racers use a 3M sanding block and a trickling hose with 600 grit paper to burnish the hull. And a perfectly smooth bottom paint will then reflect light evenly giving you that satisfying reflection of your sweating persona at a job well done! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:31:38 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] burnishing bottom paint You could really get it smooth though. > We did the bottom ourselves and did not spray it. I was able to sand > it down and finally burnish it with bronze wool. You could see your > reflection in it. what does burnishing do besides allow one to preen? Reggie