Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck

I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT

Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Charlie - I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling.? It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either.? My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time.? Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? Thanks - Paul ? From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:05 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Vangs, even solid vangs, have a world they like to live in. My Cal 40 had a sliding gooseneck, which I had to pin, otherwise when you reefed down (hardened) the vang, the gooseneck would slide up to the top of the track. Rotating booms would create another problem, which could be engineered to work and allow the boom to rotate... but why get this part so complex. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:05 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Old boom furling systems wrapped the sail around the outside of the boom, hence the problem with gear on the boom, modern boom furling takes place inside the boom, so hardware can live outside the boom. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:18 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Charlie - I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling. It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either. My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time. Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? Thanks - Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:05 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>

Yeah, if the sails wraps around the boom then the problems are obvious. Can anyone comment regarding modern in-boom vs in-mast furling?? Can't afford either one, just curious if anyone knows why in-mast seems to be more popular. Paul From: ti… [at] ch2m.com To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:23 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Old boom furling systems wrapped the sail around the outside of the boom, hence the problem with gear on the boom, modern boom furling takes place inside the boom, so hardware can live outside the boom. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:18 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Charlie - I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling.? It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either.? My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time.? Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? Thanks - Paul ? From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:05 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. > I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. > My Cal 20 still has its roller-reefing gooseneck in place, although I don't use it to roll the boom. The real problem is that it rides in a slot in the mast, allowing me to use the main downhaul. It's the same slot that the mainsail slugs ride in going upward. Here's the problem: as I crank in/down on the vang, it pulls the boom down some _but also forward_ because of the vang's angle. The forward pull makes the gooseneck fitting want to rotate on a vertical axis toward one side of the mast or the other (to leeward), and this tends to pry the slot that it rides in open. If you have a fixed gooseneck fitting, it would not have this problem or at least it would likely be engineered for it. Chris Campbell > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >

Yep, the old boats had "out-boom" furling. The whole boom turned (a crank in the end of the boom), and you rolled the sail up on it. Abysmal. In-boom allows you to have battens, while in-mast does not (guess I've seen a few vertical battens). Also, you can't have a bendy mast. Bending the in-mast roller is a disaster. Jiffy reef seems fine to me. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Charlie - I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling. It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either. My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time. Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? Thanks - Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:05 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir =http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%2 6hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>

Chris, on the 25s I have used big hose clamps around the mast to hold the dang slider in place. We've found that the slide height adjustment is not particularly useful. The track for the main slides is a separate piece that starts higher up. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:10 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. My Cal 20 still has its roller-reefing gooseneck in place, although I don't use it to roll the boom. The real problem is that it rides in a slot in the mast, allowing me to use the main downhaul. It's the same slot that the mainsail slugs ride in going upward. Here's the problem: as I crank in/down on the vang, it pulls the boom down some but also forward because of the vang's angle. The forward pull makes the gooseneck fitting want to rotate on a vertical axis toward one side of the mast or the other (to leeward), and this tends to pry the slot that it rides in open. If you have a fixed gooseneck fitting, it would not have this problem or at least it would likely be engineered for it. Chris Campbell

It is a simple though a little time consuming task to modify an old CAL roller furling gooseneck so that it is fixed and then you can add the rigid vang. Been there. Done that. Twice. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:27:55 -0500 Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling (Paul) Yep, the old boats had "out-boom" furling. The whole boom turned (a crank in the end of the boom), and you rolled the sail up on it. Abysmal. In-boom allows you to have battens, while in-mast does not (guess I've seen a few vertical battens). Also, you can't have a bendy mast. Bending the in-mast roller is a disaster. Jiffy reef seems fine to me. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pw… [at] aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:18 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Charlie - I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling. It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either. My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time. Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? Thanks - Paul From: Husar, Charlie [USA] <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 1:05 pm Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Bob, first question is why any of us would want the gooseneck to rotate. I think we have all kissed off roller reefing as useless. Many Thanks Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:03 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck I seem to recall that someone posted a note here about installing a rigid vang from Garhauer that worked with a rotating gooseneck configuration. I had never heard of that and I contacted Garhauer and they say it can't be done. Did I misunderstand that earlier post? Bob Andrew CAL 39 Nereid Norwalk, CT ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Yep, the old boats had "out-boom" furling. The whole boom turned (a > crank in the end of the boom), and you rolled the sail up on it. > Abysmal. In-boom allows you to have battens, Even with battens, you're left with the problem of rolling a curved surface onto a straight roller. Doesn't work. "Abysmal" is a kind description. The battens might help a little bit by poking the leech out as it rolled up, but the problem remains that a sail is not a window shade. If it were, we couldn't go to windward. > Jiffy reef seems fine to me. Absolutely. It's fast (hence the monniker "jiffy") and leaves you with a usable shape, even if you're doing it single-handed too late, and thus quasi-ineptly. Besides, it gives you a bunch more lines to bewilder the uninitiated. We've gotta maintain our mystique. Chris Campbell. >

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Chris, on the 25s I have used big hose clamps around the mast to hold > the dang slider in place. We've found that the slide height > adjustment is not particularly useful. The track for the main slides > is a separate piece that starts higher up. The 20 uses the extruded mast groove for everything--sail slide slugs, a couple cleats on the after side, the gooseneck slide. My boat has two holes drilled athwartship across the groove, with a cotter pin that fits in it to capture the slugs when the sail comes down. The boom slides down and bangs into the cleat for the downhaul. There's another cleat under it for the vang. Both are screwed into aluminum tubes inserted in the groove. This is low-tech sailing. Remember that height of tech and height of cost have a direct relationship, more or less, so I am happy with it. I like the downhaul, too. It's easy to hoist the main fully then pull the boom down and cleat the downhaul line. The downhaul saves having to use halyard winch ($$, weight, etc.). The only problem is the one I described earlier, with the gooseneck wanting to rotate around the mast as the vang is loaded. I do not have the problem of the boom wanting to slide up in the groove that Timm L. described. It's rotation around the mast, with the threat of prying that mast groove open. This is all academic right now, of course, because our Bay is officially frozen, all the way out into Lake Michigan. It's the first freeze since 2003. Some of us are jubilant and just wish that it had frozen smooth enough for iceboating. Chris Campbell >

Chris, I just love the word "athwartship". It is a sobriety test for crew. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:57 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Chris, on the 25s I have used big hose clamps around the mast to hold the dang slider in place. We've found that the slide height adjustment is not particularly useful. The track for the main slides is a separate piece that starts higher up. The 20 uses the extruded mast groove for everything--sail slide slugs, a couple cleats on the after side, the gooseneck slide. My boat has two holes drilled athwartship across the groove, with a cotter pin that fits in it to capture the slugs when the sail comes down. The boom slides down and bangs into the cleat for the downhaul. There's another cleat under it for the vang. Both are screwed into aluminum tubes inserted in the groove. This is low-tech sailing. Remember that height of tech and height of cost have a direct relationship, more or less, so I am happy with it. I like the downhaul, too. It's easy to hoist the main fully then pull the boom down and cleat the downhaul line. The downhaul saves having to use halyard winch ($$, weight, etc.). The only problem is the one I described earlier, with the gooseneck wanting to rotate around the mast as the vang is loaded. I do not have the problem of the boom wanting to slide up in the groove that Timm L. described. It's rotation around the mast, with the threat of prying that mast groove open. This is all academic right now, of course, because our Bay is officially frozen, all the way out into Lake Michigan. It's the first freeze since 2003. Some of us are jubilant and just wish that it had frozen smooth enough for iceboating. Chris Campbell

I thought "sail slide slugs" to be quite the test to make sure your crew was sober!! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS The thought of a roller furled main in 50+ knots of wind makes me afraid of the mechanism enough to keep me from ever having a furled main. I like single line reefing brought back to the cockpit via blocks and into hefty stoppers. But, as a precaution, I have not removed the furling winch from the mast under the boom just in case the stopper breaks! "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 2:47:06 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Chris, I just love the word "athwartship" . It is a sobriety test for crew. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:57 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Chris, on the 25s I have used big hose clamps around the mast to hold the dang slider in place. We've found that the slide height adjustment is not particularly useful. The track for the main slides is a separate piece that starts higher up. The 20 uses the extruded mast groove for everything-- sail slide slugs, a couple cleats on the after side, the gooseneck slide. My boat has two holes drilled athwartship across the groove, with a cotter pin that fits in it to capture the slugs when the sail comes down. The boom slides down and bangs into the cleat for the downhaul. There's another cleat under it for the vang. Both are screwed into aluminum tubes inserted in the groove. This is low-tech sailing. Remember that height of tech and height of cost have a direct relationship, more or less, so I am happy with it. I like the downhaul, too. It's easy to hoist the main fully then pull the boom down and cleat the downhaul line. The downhaul saves having to use halyard winch ($$, weight, etc.). The only problem is the one I described earlier, with the gooseneck wanting to rotate around the mast as the vang is loaded. I do not have the problem of the boom wanting to slide up in the groove that Timm L. described. It's rotation around the mast, with the threat of prying that mast groove open. This is all academic right now, of course, because our Bay is officially frozen, all the way out into Lake Michigan. It's the first freeze since 2003. Some of us are jubilant and just wish that it had frozen smooth enough for iceboating. Chris Campbell

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > Old boom furling systems wrapped the sail around the outside of the boom, hence the problem with gear on the boom, modern boom furling takes place inside the boom, so hardware can live outside the boom. Also, the in-boom furling systems I've seen use full battened mains. They are nice but $$$. I looked and it was about $7,000 fr one that woule fit the Cal 40. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > ________________________________ > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pwestla@... > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:18 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] In-Boom Furling was Rigid Vang with Rotating Gooseneck > > > Charlie - > > I have noticed that on new boats, in-mast furling seems to be far more popular than in-boom furling. It seems to me that in boom furling would be superior to in mast furling but have no experience with either. My Cal 39 apparently had a furling boom at one time. Did the old roller reefing booms roll the sail on the outside of the boom or were they internal like today's in-boom furlers? > > Would you mind re-stating the issues with roller reefing for my benefit? > > Thanks - > > Paul > > > >