boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25?

Does anyone have great recommendation on a boom vang (brand/setup/whatever) for an older Cal 25? First I’m wondering how to determine the cross section of the boom and the mounting strap I need to install. Or maybe someone already knows what size and brand works or has a supplier for such. Second, I want something pretty hefty… I like to sail heavy weather. Any recommendations?

I always recommend people to consider Garhauer, they will make the entire piece as a rigid vang. including the mounts. You need to contact them, and then supply templates of your spars. Their pricing, quality and strengths are very good, sometimes they need a bit of lead time. My last pricing Garhauer was at least 1/3 the price of other units. They sell factory direct, and custom make for your boat. dEmO My Cal 9.2 Garhauer. [cid:079520720@02032009-194E] California Girl Garhauer: [cid:079520720@02032009-1955] From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Does anyone have great recommendation on a boom vang (brand/setup/whatever) for an older Cal 25? First I'm wondering how to determine the cross section of the boom and the mounting strap I need to install. Or maybe someone already knows what size and brand works or has a supplier for such. Second, I want something pretty hefty... I like to sail heavy weather. Any recommendations?

Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. Cheers Charlie CAL 25 460 CAL 25 1657 Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Does anyone have great recommendation on a boom vang (brand/setup/whatever) for an older Cal 25? First I'm wondering how to determine the cross section of the boom and the mounting strap I need to install. Or maybe someone already knows what size and brand works or has a supplier for such. Second, I want something pretty hefty... I like to sail heavy weather. Any recommendations?

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first > decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer > mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at > the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a > through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay > in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with > multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This > creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. > Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in /Good Old Boat/ that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all >

I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less.. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas.. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

$100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: [http://garhauermarine.com/images/product/25%20UAB4-1.jpg] $5.00 more will get you this bail [http://garhauermarine.com/images/product/BB-2.jpg] http://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

Whirled Peas wrote: > > Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very > light. Gee, I've never messed with a preventer unless it was blowing hard enough to wreak havoc if the main backwinded. But it should run from the boom end, way forward. Tie it to the boom with a very long loop so you can reach the loop from the cockpit with the boom way out. Chris Campbell >

If and when we decide to use a preventer, we first tie a gasket (sail tie) or a piece of light line around the boom and attach the preventer to this. If there is a ghastly jibe, then the line breaks letting the stuff fly without breaking the boom. Before the break, the sails flap, (warning 1) then the boom makes a flutter noise (warning 2), then the line makes a snapping noise (warning 3) then the deck is cleared, with sailors heads flying about - on those who never listen to warnings. [http://garhauermarine.com/images/product/BT-1.jpg] another $4.50 "wishbone" from Garhauer. Two other ideas, 1. we picked a very light preventer cam cleat lock on our preventer, when stressed it slips the line instead of the boom breaking... 2. when going downwind with the spinnaker up, we use an Outgrabber, a line from the end of the boom, to the spinnaker sheet, if the boom tries to swing, it has to pull the spinnaker sheet first, collapsing the spinnaker, and slowing the boom down considerably. [http://www.spinnakershop.com/images/SpinShop/Outgrab/outgrabber%20ai.jpg] dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Husar, Charlie [USA] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:48 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

In light air we use a preventer, if necessary to calm the boom. Out grabber in use on Stan and Sally Honey's Cal 40, crossing the finish line at Diamond head. [http://www.spinnakershop.com/images/SpinShop/ConserTPFinishCroppedBright.jpg] From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:21 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Whirled Peas wrote: Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Gee, I've never messed with a preventer unless it was blowing hard enough to wreak havoc if the main backwinded. But it should run from the boom end, way forward. Tie it to the boom with a very long loop so you can reach the loop from the cockpit with the boom way out. Chris Campbell

Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s..com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm<http://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com<http://bah.com/>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m..com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps..com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<http://ch2m.com/>" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm<http://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com<http://bah.com/>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

hmmm, good stuff. The sale on vangs is still going on until April 30th http://garhauermarine.com/index.cfm Solid vang is probably out of my budget currently (seeing the number of projects I need to get done). Now, should I go with a stainless steel 25-US 4-1 vang 1000lb working load.... or should I step up to a 30 UAB 4-1 vang anodized aluminum with 2000lb working load? Decisions decisions... not much to do at work today :) From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m..com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

I second that recommendation Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ti… [at] ch2m.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:18:15 -0700 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? - Garhauer I always recommend people to consider Garhauer, they will make the entire piece as a rigid vang. including the mounts. You need to contact them, and then supply templates of your spars. Their pricing, quality and strengths are very good, sometimes they need a bit of lead time. My last pricing Garhauer was at least 1/3 the price of other units. They sell factory direct, and custom make for your boat. dEmO My Cal 9.2 Garhauer. California Girl Garhauer: From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Does anyone have great recommendation on a boom vang (brand/setup/whatever) for an older Cal 25? First I’m wondering how to determine the cross section of the boom and the mounting strap I need to install. Or maybe someone already knows what size and brand works or has a supplier for such. Second, I want something pretty hefty… I like to sail heavy weather. Any recommendations?

strap type works fine if a stop screw is installed. still need topping lift however. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: hu… [at] bah.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:26:07 -0500 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. Cheers Charlie CAL 25 460 CAL 25 1657 Annapolis From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:06 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Does anyone have great recommendation on a boom vang (brand/setup/whatever) for an older Cal 25? First I’m wondering how to determine the cross section of the boom and the mounting strap I need to install. Or maybe someone already knows what size and brand works or has a supplier for such. Second, I want something pretty hefty… I like to sail heavy weather. Any recommendations?

you'll regret not doing the rigid vang. be sure you are pricing the right one. call Garhauer Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wh… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? hmmm, good stuff. The sale on vangs is still going on until April 30th http://garhauermarine.com/index.cfm Solid vang is probably out of my budget currently (seeing the number of projects I need to get done). Now, should I go with a stainless steel 25-US 4-1 vang 1000lb working load.... or should I step up to a 30 UAB 4-1 vang anodized aluminum with 2000lb working load? Decisions decisions... not much to do at work today :) From: "ti… [at] ch2m.com" <ti… [at] ch2m.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

Ok, I've been taking my sail up and down for years with no rigid vang. But I do see the potential benefit... in very strong conditions like 25knot winds I sorta wish I had a rigid vang. Will a rigid vang hold up to a strongly luffing sail in heavy conditions? Will it hold up to an accidental partial tack while bring the sail down or reefing? Cris From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 4:41:43 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? you'll regret not doing the rigid vang. be sure you are pricing the right one. call Garhauer Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: whirledpeas333@ yahoo.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? hmmm, good stuff. The sale on vangs is still going on until April 30th http://garhauermari ne.com/index. cfm Solid vang is probably out of my budget currently (seeing the number of projects I need to get done). Now, should I go with a stainless steel 25-US 4-1 vang 1000lb working load.... or should I step up to a 30 UAB 4-1 vang anodized aluminum with 2000lb working load? Decisions decisions... not much to do at work today :) From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck.. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

The solid boom is spring loaded, like your (my) toiler paper holder rod, it will compress to a point, then it bottoms out, so it will support until something breaks, once the spring totally compresses. The Cal 40 solid vang can support my weight, 275lbs before the spring compresses completely. After that huge load, the weaker of components becomes the concern... Still, if you need room in a budget, if you have the line from the top of the mast to the back of the boom, a boom topping lift, you will not need the solid vang... dEmO, the big load! [cid:032524700@03032009-195C] From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:47 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Ok, I've been taking my sail up and down for years with no rigid vang. But I do see the potential benefit... in very strong conditions like 25knot winds I sorta wish I had a rigid vang. Will a rigid vang hold up to a strongly luffing sail in heavy conditions? Will it hold up to an accidental partial tack while bring the sail down or reefing? Cris From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 4:41:43 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? you'll regret not doing the rigid vang. be sure you are pricing the right one. call Garhauer Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> From: whirledpeas333@ yahoo.com<http://yahoo.com/> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? hmmm, good stuff. The sale on vangs is still going on until April 30th http://garhauermari ne.com/index. cfm<http://garhauermarine.com/index.cfm> Solid vang is probably out of my budget currently (seeing the number of projects I need to get done). Now, should I go with a stainless steel 25-US 4-1 vang 1000lb working load.... or should I step up to a 30 UAB 4-1 vang anodized aluminum with 2000lb working load? Decisions decisions... not much to do at work today :) From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<http://ch2m.com/>" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<http://ch2m.com/>" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps..com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com<http://ch2m.com/>" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm<http://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm> From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com<http://bah.com/>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all.. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

WP, I once worked for an E-8 named Whirley, not my fave, but that's another story. Take a look at Sail Care's catalog. I bought a block from them recently and by all appearance it's as good or better than Harken, etc. They import them from Italy and the price is reasonable. Regards, David Dobbs Cal29 411 --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Whirled Peas <wh… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Whirled Peas <wh… [at] yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 4:04 PM > All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... > hopefully less.. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I > can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their > design. > > I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure > if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that > goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum > pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount > anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has > an eye mounted on the deck. > > Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless > the wind is very light. > > Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the > stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item > I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and > go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be > using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks > > Cris > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" > <hu… [at] bah.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for > older Cal 25? > > > I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I > do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris > says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. > A lot of force when the main backwinds. > > Cheers > Charlie > > > ________________________________ > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ > Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for > older Cal 25? > > Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > Hi, Peas.. I would need to go measure some things, but I > the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I > have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a > line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be > reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a > through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend > not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something > into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not > vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once > snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. > > > > > > > > > I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads > because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end > sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a > recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using > a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the > same reason. > > But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate > screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) > screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear > (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or > else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom > from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to > suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of > aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with > the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But > think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: > sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. > Not really a good plan. > > Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell > me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run > to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones > than we have" but he professes not to understand. > > Chris Campbell > in fresh water, after all > >

Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvantage? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff

ti… [at] ch2m.com wrote: > > A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp > on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp > while sailing is NOT good. > The original owner of my Cal 20 had installed a clever topping lift. It runs from the masthead down to the aft end of the boom, through a block, and then forward along the boom, terminating past the block in a stopper knot. When you hoist the main, it lifts the boom up and slacks the topping lift; when you drop the sail, the boom is held up by it. The stopper knot stops at the block at the end of the boom, and when the topping lift slacks as the mainsail is raised, a piece of shock cord pulls the topping lift down and forward, through the block, so it doesn't flop around annoyingly while you sail. It's a good arrangement and it meets the budget needs of this guy, a two-boat owner who earns less than half in a year what the former prez of Citigroup earned in a day. (I came across that little statistic last night). I think I manage my boats better than the Citigroup prez managed his company, judging by its present disarray. Chris Campbell >

On Tuesday 03 March 2009 09:29:27 Chris Campbell wrote: > The original owner of my Cal 20 had installed a clever topping lift. That's a cool trick. Was wondering how to accomplish that while reading the manual and learning the rigging configuration. All I can do for now is read..:( -- /ch

Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey owen To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvantage? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM

Chris h wrote: > > On Tuesday 03 March 2009 09:29:27 Chris Campbell wrote: > > > The original owner of my Cal 20 had installed a clever topping lift. > > That's a cool trick. Was wondering how to accomplish that while > reading the > manual and learning the rigging configuration. All I can do for now is > read..:( > This system uses a little lightweight block shackled to the aluminum casting end-cap on the boom, or one of the two tangs secured to it. I have to fiddle with the length of the shock cord running forward so it's not to badly stretched in the down position and still has enough oomph to keep the topping lift under control in the up position. The longer the better. Chris Campbell > > > >

Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all the way through for maximum strength, but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. Somebody someplace said to just use teflon tape stuff like the plumbers use but I imagine there is most likely something considerably better suited to this purpose. Also, I was seriously thinking about getting one of those 'solid' boom vangs [from Garmin is it?] but Jib Kelly said Cal 20 booms are just not made for that and it would be looking for trouble on top of being expensive. Yeah, so what do you guys use to stave off galvanic corrosion betwixt stainless and aluminium? From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:42:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

I see those things all the time for cheap at Kelly Marine, which is located conveniently right across the street! So if you end up not finding any near you, I'll go nab one for you and mail it. From: Whirled Peas <wh… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:04:57 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

Dunno, just sounded like a good name for a Doo-Wop group. Not sure you can stop the corrosion, but dipping the screws into Lanocote can help. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Nougat Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all the way through for maximum strength, but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. Somebody someplace said to just use teflon tape stuff like the plumbers use but I imagine there is most likely something considerably better suited to this purpose. Also, I was seriously thinking about getting one of those 'solid' boom vangs [from Garmin is it?] but Jib Kelly said Cal 20 booms are just not made for that and it would be looking for trouble on top of being expensive. Yeah, so what do you guys use to stave off galvanic corrosion betwixt stainless and aluminium? From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:42:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

Check out Tef Gel at: http://tinyurl.com/bwwhpd If the tiny url doesn't work, just google it or bring up the Hall Spars, Jamestown Distributors, etc. site to check on it. Jon Myers Cal 29 Bay Breeze Ballast @ GOBR From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Nougat Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:43 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all the way through for maximum strength, but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. Somebody someplace said to just use teflon tape stuff like the plumbers use but I imagine there is most likely something considerably better suited to this purpose. Also, I was seriously thinking about getting one of those 'solid' boom vangs [from Garmin is it?] but Jib Kelly said Cal 20 booms are just not made for that and it would be looking for trouble on top of being expensive. Yeah, so what do you guys use to stave off galvanic corrosion betwixt stainless and aluminium? From: Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:42:44 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. **************************************************

Lord Nougat wrote: > Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two > 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. > I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried > whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts > and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally > aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all > the way through for maximum strength Remember that our spreader brackets are fastened through the mast with a stainless bolt, but that it has an aluminum tube to prevent crushing the mast as you secure the nut on the bolt. You'll need something like that, won't you? > , but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. When I replaced my spreader brackets, I either used anhydrous lanolin from the drug store or whatever grease I had at hand to keep the aluminum tube and stainless bolt from going to war. The old tube/bolt were cookin' away, even though I'm, in fresh water (but of course they had a 40 year head start on hostilities). Chris Campbell

The way to use the wishbone (U-strap) is to double nut or nylock nut one end, so we have a tight bolt without tightening to compress the boom. The u-bracket should be free to rotate some. All CAL 25s have a through-bolt on the spreader brackets with compression tube. If one is doing the v-bracket as described below, through bolting is not advised. Unfortunately it comes out to be either tapped threads or self tapping screws on each side. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:05 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too Lord Nougat wrote: Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all the way through for maximum strength Remember that our spreader brackets are fastened through the mast with a stainless bolt, but that it has an aluminum tube to prevent crushing the mast as you secure the nut on the bolt. You'll need something like that, won't you? , but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. When I replaced my spreader brackets, I either used anhydrous lanolin from the drug store or whatever grease I had at hand to keep the aluminum tube and stainless bolt from going to war. The old tube/bolt were cookin' away, even though I'm, in fresh water (but of course they had a 40 year head start on hostilities). Chris Campbell

my Garhauer will and does on my T/2 Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wh… [at] yahoo.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:46:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Ok, I've been taking my sail up and down for years with no rigid vang. But I do see the potential benefit... in very strong conditions like 25knot winds I sorta wish I had a rigid vang. Will a rigid vang hold up to a strongly luffing sail in heavy conditions? Will it hold up to an accidental partial tack while bring the sail down or reefing? Cris From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 4:41:43 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? you'll regret not doing the rigid vang. be sure you are pricing the right one. call Garhauer Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: whirledpeas333@ yahoo.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? hmmm, good stuff. The sale on vangs is still going on until April 30th http://garhauermari ne.com/index. cfm Solid vang is probably out of my budget currently (seeing the number of projects I need to get done). Now, should I go with a stainless steel 25-US 4-1 vang 1000lb working load.... or should I step up to a 30 UAB 4-1 vang anodized aluminum with 2000lb working load? Decisions decisions... not much to do at work today :) From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Solid vangs are made with two tubes, one inside the other, like a shock absorber. An internal spring keeps the tubes pushed out. The spring is sized by Garhauer when you give them dimensions of your rig. So the springed unit can hold the weight of your boom, so when you drop the main, such as when you are reefing, the boom stays supported, instead of dropping to the deck. A rope vang, will drop the boom to the deck, unless you have a clasp on the backstay, or a boom topper from the mast head. Using the clasp while sailing is NOT good. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? So what's the advantage of the solid vang? I'm unfamiliar and just trying to guess here by looking at product pictures. From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:35:35 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? You might talk Garhauer into honoring the Solid Vang sale price that ended Feb 28th... 20% off? From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:33 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Thanks timmothy! That's what I was looking for. The $100 solution is a great option. And the Garhauer solid vangs aren't all that pricey... $330? Maybe.. maybe... From: "timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com" <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 2:19:55 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? $100 (plus shipping) answer is: Search the Garhauer site for boom vang and bails. for @ $95 this: $5.00 more will get you this bail http://garhauermari ne.com/catalog. cfm From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? All good advice. Forgot to mention my budget is $200 tops... hopefully less. So that may rule out a solid vang. Unless I can fabricate it myself but I'm not familiar with their design. I was thinking of having a stainless steel strap (not sure if that the correct term... the V shaped wishbone ones) that goes diagonally onto the boom. I was going to use aluminum pop rivets to help avoid corrosion. No need to mount anything on the mast... the mast end of the vang already has an eye mounted on the deck. Preventer mode... I don't mess with preventers unless the wind is very light. Was mostly wondering is anyone had a source on the stainless wishbone boom strap... or is that just an item I'm going to have to draw up my own crosssection for and go shopping? Or does anyone know the proper term I should be using for it? A bail? Even if it goes diagonal? Thanks Cris From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@ bah.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:48:15 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:43 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Hi, Peas. I would need to go measure some things, but I the first decision is solid vang that supports the mast. I have heard Garhauer mentioned highly for this. I use a line vang at 4:1 with the cleat at the top so it can be reached more easily. I use a u-shaped bail to a through-bolt in the boom. The strap type attachments tend not to stay in or stay in place. If you screw something into the mast with multiple screws, make sure they are not vertically aligned. This creates a weak spot. Once snapped a boom in a storm due to this. Kind of exciting. I've always been a bit nervous about mid-boom loads because of that problem. Both of my boats have boom-end sheeting, which makes me feel secure. I think it was a recent article in Good Old Boat that cautioned against using a line vang running to the toe rail as a preventer for the same reason. But my Cal 20 has a line vang running to a stainless plate screwed on the bottom of her boom with steel (not stainless) screws. Some of the tension on the plate is in shear (forward) but a good part of it is down , in tension (or else the vang wouldn't do anything except keep the boom from disappearing aft, would it?). I usually manage to suppress my morbid curiosity about the combined effect of aluminum + stainless + regular steel, consoling myself with the thought that my boat is in fresh water, after all.. But think about it, even ignoring the battery effect: sheet-metal screws running into aluminum are in tension. Not really a good plan. Even worse, I haven't managed to get Steve Seal to sell me a bail for the bottom of the mast for the vang to run to. Another supplier said "Steve Seal has beter ones than we have" but he professes not to understand. Chris Campbell in fresh water, after all

On Tuesday 03 March 2009 14:12:38 Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: You can of course try one of these with adjustable slide. http://www.boomkicker.com/ A guy in here town picked one up for his small starter beneteau at the annual yacht club flee market (great place to find stuff) for 80 bucks. Loves it. -- /ch

On Tuesday 03 March 2009 16:30:35 Chris h wrote: These guys also have the boom bail that someone was requesting in this thread. Sorry I cant find it right now so its a bit out of sequence. Looks interesting. http://www.seoladair.com/rollingbails/index.html -- /ch

Ok, so the U-strap with double nuts/locking nuts on the bolt sounds like the prefered solution. This is the strongest vang mounting design overall, right? And it sounds like the V-strap is not the strongest arraingement. I was thinking I could pop rivet a V strap. Guess I'll abandone that idea. Thanks for all the advice. Cris Capp From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:12:38 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too The way to use the wishbone (U-strap) is to double nut or nylock nut one end, so we have a tight bolt without tightening to compress the boom. The u-bracket should be free to rotate some. All CAL 25s have a through-bolt on the spreader brackets with compression tube. If one is doing the v-bracket as described below, through bolting is not advised. Unfortunately it comes out to be either tapped threads or self tapping screws on each side. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:05 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too Lord Nougat wrote: Agh! This stainless plate you mention... it ripped out of my boom two 4th of Julys ago sailing to Long Beach. I've got a really horrible temporary solution that keeps me worried whenever we're on a reach or run, but I have some big stainless bolts and a replacement plate/pad eye thing. I intend to drill [horizontally aligned] 2 holes all the way through the boom and run the bolts all the way through for maximum strength Remember that our spreader brackets are fastened through the mast with a stainless bolt, but that it has an aluminum tube to prevent crushing the mast as you secure the nut on the bolt. You'll need something like that, won't you? , but galvanic corrosion is still worrying me. When I replaced my spreader brackets, I either used anhydrous lanolin from the drug store or whatever grease I had at hand to keep the aluminum tube and stainless bolt from going to war. The old tube/bolt were cookin' away, even though I'm, in fresh water (but of course they had a 40 year head start on hostilities) . Chris Campbell

This looks impressive... I think one of these has a destiny with my boom :) From: Chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 1:34:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] boom vang fun involving Cal 20s too On Tuesday 03 March 2009 16:30:35 Chris h wrote: These guys also have the boom bail that someone was requesting in this thread. Sorry I cant find it right now so its a bit out of sequence. Looks interesting. http://www.seoladai r.com/rollingbai ls/index. html -- /ch

Greg: In general areas, I used balsa, and whenever posible, I cut from the bottom, just to avoid all the work involved with finishing the deck. Once installed and glassed, I used a 1" hole saw to remove bottom layer of glass and core where deck hardware screws will be installed, leaving the top glass layer. I filled the holes w/ a mix of epoxy w/ microfibers. By doing it this way, I hope to keep moisture from wetting core again. It is a lot of work, but I think it is well worth it. Regards Jeff From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM

Greg: BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is appreciated. As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just as functional, for a lot less $$$$. Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. Jeff From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM

Jeff Nidacore is a core material used for several different applications including boat decks. It is plastic formed into small honey comb shapes and comes in 4 X 8 sheets. Cut to shape and epoxy into the deck and then glass over. Never again will I have to worry about rotten wood. I cut the entire deck off the boat and pulled all the balsa out....was extremely wet in several areas and I figured I would do it all with the exception of the foredeck which is nice and dry. For a non-skid, I looked into several different materials / techniques and ended up buying the original pattern of the non skid, did a reverse mold using gell coat and then epoxied that onto the deck. Finished by spray painting the deck with a quality epoxy paint. A few things I would have done differently in retrospect, but overall happy with the outcome. I have never heard of Vetus non skid....wil have to look it up tonight. The sand was a bit rough on the skin if you had to put a knee down so I stayed away from it. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey owen To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Greg: BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is appreciated. As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just as functional, for a lot less $$$$. Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 3/3/2009 4:09 PM

some boats are now masking out areas and them applying a thin coat of one of the spray or roll on bed liners for nonskid Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: Sv… [at] optonline.net Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:07:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Jeff Nidacore is a core material used for several different applications including boat decks. It is plastic formed into small honey comb shapes and comes in 4 X 8 sheets. Cut to shape and epoxy into the deck and then glass over. Never again will I have to worry about rotten wood. I cut the entire deck off the boat and pulled all the balsa out....was extremely wet in several areas and I figured I would do it all with the exception of the foredeck which is nice and dry. For a non-skid, I looked into several different materials / techniques and ended up buying the original pattern of the non skid, did a reverse mold using gell coat and then epoxied that onto the deck. Finished by spray painting the deck with a quality epoxy paint. A few things I would have done differently in retrospect, but overall happy with the outcome. I have never heard of Vetus non skid....wil have to look it up tonight. The sand was a bit rough on the skin if you had to put a knee down so I stayed away from it. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Greg: BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is appreciated. As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just as functional, for a lot less $$$$. Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. Jeff From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 3/3/2009 4:09 PM

I used sand on a previous iteration and my crew did a lot of bleeding. I used a water-catalyzed epoxy deck coating and it is very aggressive without as much bleeding. It can be adjusted with a few hours and a sander (requires a recoat of paint) but I like my crew staying on the boat and will live with it. Wilkie On Mar 4, 2009, at 9:30 AM, r good wrote: > some boats are now masking out areas and them applying a thin coat > of one of the spray or roll on bed liners for nonskid > Reggie > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: Sv… [at] optonline.net > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:07:56 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid > > Jeff > > Nidacore is a core material used for several different applications > including boat decks. It is plastic formed into small honey comb > shapes and comes in 4 X 8 sheets. Cut to shape and epoxy into the > deck and then glass over. Never again will I have to worry about > rotten wood. > > I cut the entire deck off the boat and pulled all the balsa > out....was extremely wet in several areas and I figured I would do > it all with the exception of the foredeck which is nice and dry. > > For a non-skid, I looked into several different materials / > techniques and ended up buying the original pattern of the non skid, > did a reverse mold using gell coat and then epoxied that onto the > deck. Finished by spray painting the deck with a quality epoxy > paint. A few things I would have done differently in retrospect, > but overall happy with the outcome. I have never heard of Vetus non > skid....wil have to look it up tonight. The sand was a bit rough on > the skin if you had to put a knee down so I stayed away from it. > > > Greg > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeffrey owen > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid > > > Greg: > > BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more > about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is > my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly > a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is > appreciated. > > As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I > sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I > am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat > (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One > is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I > thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just > as functional, for a lot less $$$$. > > Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. > > Jeff > > From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core > > > Jeff, > > How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. > I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used > nidacore instead of balsa. > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeffrey owen > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question > > > Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a > 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks > for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and > the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the > tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were > originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the > change? Any advantage/disadvant age? > > BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed > properly before the track installs. > > Thanks to all for all the valuable info! > > Regards > > Jeff > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: > 3/2/2009 11:02 PM > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: > 3/3/2009 4:09 PM > > > >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, > but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can > be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. > > Cheers > Charlie > > I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. If you do that, it should be a light line that will break but then you risk a headache from the boom. We were off Magdalena Bay at the time about 50 miles offshore on the way to Manzanillo. Those old IOR boats really rolled in a breeze down wind. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

like this? [cid:349351721@04032009-0EFA] From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, > but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can > be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. > > Cheers > Charlie > > I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. If you do that, it should be a light line that will break but then you risk a headache from the boom. We were off Magdalena Bay at the time about 50 miles offshore on the way to Manzanillo. Those old IOR boats really rolled in a breeze down wind. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

So Greg, where did you source the Nida Core material? from the factory or another source? I have interest in some in the Pacific Northwest, USA. and was looking to avoid shipping a 4x8 sheet from Florida. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of svadas Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:08 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Jeff Nidacore is a core material used for several different applications including boat decks. It is plastic formed into small honey comb shapes and comes in 4 X 8 sheets. Cut to shape and epoxy into the deck and then glass over. Never again will I have to worry about rotten wood. I cut the entire deck off the boat and pulled all the balsa out....was extremely wet in several areas and I figured I would do it all with the exception of the foredeck which is nice and dry. For a non-skid, I looked into several different materials / techniques and ended up buying the original pattern of the non skid, did a reverse mold using gell coat and then epoxied that onto the deck. Finished by spray painting the deck with a quality epoxy paint. A few things I would have done differently in retrospect, but overall happy with the outcome. I have never heard of Vetus non skid....wil have to look it up tonight. The sand was a bit rough on the skin if you had to put a knee down so I stayed away from it. Greg From: Jeffrey owen<mailto:je… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Greg: BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is appreciated. As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just as functional, for a lot less $$$$. Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. Jeff From: svadas <Sv… [at] optonline.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg From: Jeffrey owen<mailto:je… [at] yahoo.com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 3/3/2009 4:09 PM

mtkennedy1 wrote: > > > I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a > jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to > climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and > release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the > masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. > This, says Chris with a great big grin, is what separates sailing from golf. Chris Campbell > > > >

Mike, on my 25, when we are in heavy air/water almost by the lee, I try to twing down the chute to reduce the shoulders. In our Frostbite races (no chutes allowed) a few weeks ago, we were getting a lot of roll with wing-on-wing in heavy air. What might you (or others on the list) do to get out of the rolling (other than jibe and come up). I try to drive with the rolls (don't fight it), but am always concerned that we will pull the old accidental jibe and splatter stuff and people all over the place. My release trick on a "preventer" is to wrap the vang line around the shrouds near the base, and have someone hold it. If things go to hell, the holder just lets go. We have the vang block at the top (at the boom end). Cheers, I Guess Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line > vang, but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer > mode can be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. > > Cheers > Charlie > > I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. If you do that, it should be a light line that will break but then you risk a headache from the boom. We were off Magdalena Bay at the time about 50 miles offshore on the way to Manzanillo. Those old IOR boats really rolled in a breeze down wind. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Well almost, Timm. I try to get more water into the chute. The Olson 30s have just reformed as a Cruising One Design (COD) Class on the Chesapeake. I will pass this shot on to their Class rep. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ti… [at] ch2m.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:20 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? (Mike K) like this? From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:16 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> , "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > I meant to say the decision is solid vang or line vang. I do line vang, > but a solid one might be handy. As Chris says, the preventer mode can > be dangerous in heavier air. A lot of force when the main backwinds. > > Cheers > Charlie > > I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. If you do that, it should be a light line that will break but then you risk a headache from the boom. We were off Magdalena Bay at the time about 50 miles offshore on the way to Manzanillo. Those old IOR boats really rolled in a breeze down wind. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

Timmo, Not nidacore, but Fisheries had a cool product at the Seattle Boat Show called MultiPanel. The manufacturer's website is www.thermoboat.com. It may be of interest to you. You could stop and buy me a beverage on your way home from picking it up in Seattle. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma

why stop at one? From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Haas Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:51 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: nidacore Timmo, Not nidacore, but Fisheries had a cool product at the Seattle Boat Show called MultiPanel. The manufacturer's website is www.thermoboat.com. It may be of interest to you. You could stop and buy me a beverage on your way home from picking it up in Seattle. Fred Haas 3-30 Nemesis Tacoma

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > like this? > > [cid:349351721@04032009-0EFA] Kind of like that. Except the main was backed and holding the boat down until I got the preventer released. A lot like that, though. Mike Kenedy Conquest Cal 4 # 96 >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <husar_charlie@...> wrote: > > Mike, on my 25, when we are in heavy air/water almost by the lee, I try > to twing down the chute to reduce the shoulders. In our Frostbite races > (no chutes allowed) a few weeks ago, we were getting a lot of roll with > wing-on-wing in heavy air. What might you (or others on the list) do to > get out of the rolling (other than jibe and come up). I try to drive > with the rolls (don't fight it), but am always concerned that we will > pull the old accidental jibe and splatter stuff and people all over the > place. > > My release trick on a "preventer" is to wrap the vang line around the > shrouds near the base, and have someone hold it. If things go to hell, > the holder just lets go. We have the vang block at the top (at the boom > end). > > Cheers, I Guess > Charlie We were flying a chicken chute at the time, a starcut 1.5 with narrow shoulders and the sheet pulled down about where the guy was on the other side. Those old IOR boats were a handful. It was probably blowing 40 but the boat wouldn't go over 12 so the apparent never dropped the way it does with a lighter boat, especially a Cal 40. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

People have been attacked by alligators on golf courses. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:34 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? mtkennedy1 wrote: I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. This, says Chris with a great big grin, is what separates sailing from golf. Chris Campbell

Mike, Did the same thing with my Bristol 30 and for the same reasons also. With this knowledge I now bring even the preventer back to the cockpit. mtkennedy1 wrote: I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. .

Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: > > People have been attacked by alligators on golf courses. Which leads to me to conclude that there is justice, after all. Chris Campbell avoiding alligators in his iceboat > > . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >

I was attacked by a cottonmouth at Duck Woods CC in North Carolina that narrowly missed my inner thigh! Problem solved with a swift 7-iron!! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "Husar, Charlie [USA]" <hu… [at] bah.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:04:06 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Sailing and Golf (Chris C) People have been attacked by alligators on golf courses. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:34 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: boom vang recommendations for older Cal 25? mtkennedy1 wrote: I learned that the hard way when we laid the Yankee 38 down in a jibe/broach with the preventer cleated down to the rail. I had to climb the cockpit with the boat on its side to reach the cam cleat and release the preventer. That allowed the boat to come up. We had the masthead (or at least the spreader) in the water at the time. This, says Chris with a great big grin, is what separates sailing from golf. Chris Campbell

Well, I am the point of deciding what to do about non skid. The deck is completely repaired and primed, and I'd like to pick some brains. After reading about bloody knees, I'mturning away from sand. I read about kiwi-grip, which seems to be a good altenative - it is a roll on putty used with textured rollers, supplied by the same manufacturer - anyone heard of it? Comments? Other alternative is Vetus or treadmaster-M non-skid overlay - expensive, but easy to apply (easy is a relative term), apparently very durable, good for boat owners with small children (such as myself). So, feedback, as usual, is welcome, thanks to all. Jeff '72 Cal 33 From: DavidOwen <wi… [at] mariposasailing.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 2:06:32 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid I used sand on a previous iteration and my crew did a lot of bleeding. I used a water-catalyzed epoxy deck coating and it is very aggressive without as much bleeding. It can be adjusted with a few hours and a sander (requires a recoat of paint) but I like my crew staying on the boat and will live with it. Wilkie On Mar 4, 2009, at 9:30 AM, r good wrote: some boats are now masking out areas and them applying a thin coat of one of the spray or roll on bed liners for nonskid Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: Svadas4@optonline. net Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:07:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Jeff Nidacore is a core material used for several different applications including boat decks. It is plastic formed into small honey comb shapes and comes in 4 X 8 sheets. Cut to shape and epoxy into the deck and then glass over. Never again will I have to worry about rotten wood. I cut the entire deck off the boat and pulled all the balsa out....was extremely wet in several areas and I figured I would do it all with the exception of the foredeck which is nice and dry. For a non-skid, I looked into several different materials / techniques and ended up buying the original pattern of the non skid, did a reverse mold using gell coat and then epoxied that onto the deck. Finished by spray painting the deck with a quality epoxy paint. A few things I would have done differently in retrospect, but overall happy with the outcome. I have never heard of Vetus non skid....wil have to look it up tonight. The sand was a bit rough on the skin if you had to put a knee down so I stayed away from it. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] core, non-skid Greg: BTW, I never heard of nidacore, could you tell me a little more about it? I am new to all of this, and as a matter of fact, this is my first boat refit, so I am learning a lot along the way, certainly a lot from everything that is discussed here, so any feedback is appreciated. As far as my "little" boat project, I have begun priming the deck. I sanded down what little original non skid there was. At this time, I am filling pits with fairing compound, to do a final primer coat (hopefully). For non-skid, I am loking at a couple of options. One is Vetus non skid overlay, the other is just a sand non-skid. I thing the first will look better, but I believe the second is just as functional, for a lot less $$$$. Any thoughts on this or other approaches would be helpfull. Jeff From: svadas <Svadas4@optonline. net> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:07:33 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question - Core Jeff, How did you do the core replacement and what material did you use. I did a core replacement on my boat cutting from the top and used nidacore instead of balsa. Greg From: Jeffrey owen To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] T-Track question Good morning, it has been a while. I am doing a complete refit of a 72 Cal 33. One of the previous owners replaced the original t-tracks for the jib and spinaker, but placed them between the toe rail and the cabin. If anyone has documentation of the original layout of the tracks, I would certainly appreciate it. I believe they were originally installed along the toe rails. Any feedback as to why the change? Any advantage/disadvant age? BTW, I did a complete core replacement, the deck was not sealed properly before the track installs. Thanks to all for all the valuable info! Regards Jeff No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 3/2/2009 11:02 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 3/3/2009 4:09 PM