Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing

I rarely buy from WM. When I do it's usually for something on sale or on close out. I carefully plan my purchases and spend considerable time finding the best deal. Local purchases are only done when I can't wait for what I need. I order a lot of stuff off the Internet, including Defender, ebay, Craigs List, and a number of others I can't remember. Michael

Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something....they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations.....but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> writes: Recent Activity 3New Members Visit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others.. Digital Photography - Click Now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmShUxvu75upqpJGXHbhwejumM411RxOH8o7cym8Jst8PEIxLry/

I don't know if this is true or not but I was told by an employee at Boaters World that they stopped carrying sailing items because they were being stolen from the store! They too have idiots working at their stores. They had a few sailing items left in the store in a basket that was labeled "make offer" so I got all the stainless Wichard shackles and anything else that I might need that was worth buying and offered them a buck a piece. I walked out of there with probably $150 worth of shackles and other stainless items for about $15 bucks. Gotta luv it! Paul **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

I've been happy with the West Marine in Pensacola. And I am sure glad I don't have to put up the hundreds of thousands of collars to pay for having low turnover items on the shelves. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: rj… [at] juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:50:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something....they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations.....but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <cl… [at] charterinternet.com> writes: . Digital Photography - Click Now.

Rodney G Johnson wrote: > > > > The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when > they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or > BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! .... > > The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST > come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real > boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do > the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost > without my GPS > stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! .... > > Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or > "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, > (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often > set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. I keep complaining because (a) it's therapeutic and (b) sometimes the West guys used to read this. I can still remember walking into a brand new West Marine store, the first local store of theirs that I had ever seen, and it was so cool! I made this mental shopping list of all the great stuff I'd buy for my boat. But then when I went back later to buy it, it was no longer stocked. This is usually explained as a "business model" and the rationale is that you can't have slow-moving items tying up capital and blah blah blah. But a rational business model will factor in _customer service and satisfaction_. The local chandleries commonly stocked stuff that their customers wanted, whether it moved fast or not. They viewed it as part of their business to serve the customers. And so when I wanted my favorite varnish, it would be there on the shelf, or perhaps that nice cleat. I'm sure it increased costs; I'm sure it had an adverse effect on profit maximization in the short term. But you know, when I wanted some bigger-ticket item, I looked first to my local folks because they are the ones that had served me in the past. Now I don't much care if West wants to make a killing by selling pull-behind toys and big coolers for the power boat market, but if they want any loyalty or good feelings from me, they've got to meet my needs too. My view is that businesses have obligations to communities and to customers. They must be more than mere profit mining. The other day I bought some pricey new snowshoes. I didn't go online and seek the lowest price. I walked downtown at lunch, found some good ones at the local outdoor outfitter, and paid their price. Chances are that a lower price was available elsewhere, but these guys are there when I need them, and I want to keep them there, so I shop there. It's as simple as that. Same thing with the nice local bookstore downtown. This probably sounds terribly naive in an age when corporate ethics have been set by investment bankers and auto executives, but perhaps we're returning to a notion that in order to make money you've got to give something in return. In my line of work, there are all sorts of ethical obligations running to the legal system, the opposite party, and to various other folks. I cannot simply orient my behavior around making the most money for myself. And so it seems reasonable to look to the rest of the economic world to do more than just make the most money possible. Chris Campbell

On West Marine, we have the same in PR, I buy west system epoxy and fillers from them, a gallon of epoxy runs about $107.00, and I usually get about 22% off as a reseller - mind you, that does not include catalist. As far as other products, I ship them in from other vendors stateside, it is cheaper, even with shipping costs, than West.

I"ll probably get grilled for saying this... but these West Marine price fixing examples are failures of free market capitalism. Allowing one mega corporation to out franchise the mom and pop businesses that America was built on- that's not american. It is not economic freedom and it's not self determination. What are we left with in the end? A lack of choice, a lack of quality, and a lack of independently run local business (and the lack of ability to even think of starting one up again and competing against the monopoly company). I'm not promoting any other system here... I'm just calling it like I see it. Our small microcosm of sailboat parts shopping is sort of like a miners canary if you think about it. I never buy from West Marine. First and last stop- mom and pop's shop. Cris From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:50:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something... .they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations... ..but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock.....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> writes: . ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Digital Photography - Click Now.

AS West Marine, or any other buxiness, carries less of what you/we want, a niche market opens up. Who would like to be the first to step in for an underserved area near you? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: wh… [at] yahoo.com Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 13:03:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing I"ll probably get grilled for saying this... but these West Marine price fixing examples are failures of free market capitalism. Allowing one mega corporation to out franchise the mom and pop businesses that America was built on- that's not american. It is not economic freedom and it's not self determination. What are we left with in the end? A lack of choice, a lack of quality, and a lack of independently run local business (and the lack of ability to even think of starting one up again and competing against the monopoly company). I'm not promoting any other system here... I'm just calling it like I see it. Our small microcosm of sailboat parts shopping is sort of like a miners canary if you think about it. I never buy from West Marine. First and last stop- mom and pop's shop. Cris From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:50:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something... .they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that.....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations... ..but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> writes: . ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Digital Photography - Click Now.

That is until the mega corporation catches wind of the niche market, then either buys it out or china copy reproduces it. You can't compete against the big guys if you're the little guy. How do you think GE has stayed on the stock market for 112 years? Cause they eat anything... Cris From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 1:07:29 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] competition AS West Marine, or any other buxiness, carries less of what you/we want, a niche market opens up. Who would like to be the first to step in for an underserved area near you? Reggie To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: whirledpeas333@ yahoo.com Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 13:03:48 -0800 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing I"ll probably get grilled for saying this... but these West Marine price fixing examples are failures of free market capitalism. Allowing one mega corporation to out franchise the mom and pop businesses that America was built on- that's not american. It is not economic freedom and it's not self determination. What are we left with in the end? A lack of choice, a lack of quality, and a lack of independently run local business (and the lack of ability to even think of starting one up again and competing against the monopoly company). I'm not promoting any other system here... I'm just calling it like I see it. Our small microcosm of sailboat parts shopping is sort of like a miners canary if you think about it. I never buy from West Marine. First and last stop- mom and pop's shop. Cris From: Rodney G Johnson <rjohnson24@juno. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:50:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something... .they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that.....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations... ..but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock.....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> writes: . ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Digital Photography - Click Now.

You have hit it on the head. That is the problem everywhere. Starbucks, Home Depot, chain restaurants, Kmart, Wal-Mart. It is hard to not buy from these stores because money is tight. It is a wave that has destroyed the entrepreneurial spirit in this country. Blah Blah Blah.corporations aren't going to change. Scott _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:04 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing I'll probably get grilled for saying this... but these West Marine price fixing examples are failures of free market capitalism. Allowing one mega corporation to out franchise the mom and pop businesses that America was built on- that's not American. It is not economic freedom and it's not self determination. What are we left with in the end? A lack of choice, a lack of quality, and a lack of independently run local business (and the lack of ability to even think of starting one up again and competing against the monopoly company). I'm not promoting any other system here... I'm just calling it like I see it. Our small microcosm of sailboat parts shopping is sort of like a miners canary if you think about it. I never buy from West Marine. First and last stop- mom and pop's shop. Cris _____ From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:50:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick, so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something... .they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that.....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations... ..but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com <mailto:cl… [at] charterinternet.com> > writes: . ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Digital Photography - Click Now. <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/BLSrjpTDvmShUxvu75upqpJGXHbhwej umM411RxOH8o7cym8Jst8PEIxLry/>

Here in northern CAl West marine has very little competion I'm so so tired of there prices for years I have called them Worst cost marine. They have closed the Mt. View store I'm glad that is all I can say with out being sued. some of there clerks are plain non boaters add to the price and will I shop elsewhere. Also there share holders want a return so when you pay retail ask that question I do I do not have money growing on trees. Its sad that I remember them to be a good store ect. But when they dropped a lot stuff and added the clothes and other big ticket items it was not the same My 2 cents on this Scott Walker --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Scott Cyphers <sc… [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Scott Cyphers <sc… [at] sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:20 PM You have hit it on the head. That is the problem everywhere. Starbucks, Home Depot, chain restaurants, Kmart, Wal-Mart. It is hard to not buy from these stores because money is tight. It is a wave that has destroyed the entrepreneurial spirit in this country. Blah Blah Blah…corporations aren’t going to change. Scott From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Whirled Peas Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:04 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing I’ll probably get grilled for saying this... but these West Marine price fixing examples are failures of free market capitalism. Allowing one mega corporation to out franchise the mom and pop businesses that America was built on- that's not American. It is not economic freedom and it's not self determination. What are we left with in the end? A lack of choice, a lack of quality, and a lack of independently run local business (and the lack of ability to even think of starting one up again and competing against the monopoly company). I'm not promoting any other system here... I'm just calling it like I see it. Our small microcosm of sailboat parts shopping is sort of like a miners canary if you think about it. I never buy from West Marine. First and last stop- mom and pop's shop. Cris From: Rodney G Johnson <rjohnson24@juno. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 9:50:09 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing Chris, until you mentioned this I hadn't really thought about it! But you are SO right! Around here many of the smaller chandleries (like the one I used to work for) order from a supplier called "KELLOGG MARINE", (they are supposedly owned by Brunswick , so much for the little guy..but!!) and if you need something... .they can get it to the local guy the next day usually! Not everything is at WEST Marine (or as a friend calls it , "Worst Marine") prices, but some things are actually LESS $$, and it probably balances out. Try getting WEST to have something come in the next day...hardly ever happens! The WEST Marine and BOAT/US Stores around here used to be good, when they first opened it was WONDERFUL, like walking into the WEST or BOAT/US catalog! They had all the real boat stuff we need! But like you say, the little guys couldn't really compete...even though they were able to give one thing that the big guys can't (well, what the big guys stopped providing after the first year or so of operation!) that is, personal service by store clerks who actually know boats! In the beginning, WEST was like that.....I still remember back in the early 1990's when we replaced the cabin vents on our CAL 21, we went to WEST and they only had one of the vents we needed, they bent over backwards to arrange a direct shipment to our home of the other 2 we needed, no shipping charge, and we had them a few days later! The last time I needed WEST to get something like that to me I'd have to pay shipping, unless I wanted to pick it up at the store....and either way it was not going to be anytime quick! The worst part about what happens to the local little guys after WEST come in is that not only does WEST stop carrying the items that real boatowners need (as opposed to marina-dwelling, "let the boatyard do the work", where's my TV and DVD, who used all the ice, help I'm lost without my GPS stinkpotters) but they raise the prices! I also remember when I needed to replace the bunk brackets on my trailer, I needed 4 brackets. WEST had 1 in stock at the first store that I went to, so I went down the street to another WEST store, they had 1 bracket! Well ,I wasn't going to buy 1, go back to the first store to buy another, then order the other 2! No time! Well, I went to a BOATER'S WORLD store the next day, not only did they have about 10-15 of those brackets in stock, but they were less $$$! Now, Boater's World is still not my first choice...and they seems to be slipping into the WEST Marine mold, but still....THEY actually had what I needed!! Unfortunately, this is not a philosophy limited to marine stores, or "the big guys", I presently work part-time for a regional store chain, (sort-of a modern General Store), and the "basic" on items is often set low to cut down on "costly" stock in the stores. (Basic is how many of an item is to be kept "in stock" at all times) If there is an item that we sell only about 3 per month, we will often only have 2-4 in stock. That's fine, until the not so rare instance when a customer comes in needing 6 of that item....well, we may be able to get the rest from one of our other store locations... ..but if they are out as well....we have to wait until we can get an "emergency order" or until our every 2-weeks normal order. I've tried to get the Management to understand the stupidity of their basics on several items...but no luck! We have our own warehouse, our own trucks and vans.....so I see no reason why we couldn't get a needed item to the store in less than 24 hours (possibly the same day often!) but it doesn't work that way! If we could get items in in less than 24 hours, I could see the low basics, but since in some cases it may be 2-3 weeks or more before we get more stock....well, you can see it ain't going to work! The crew at the warehouse are also not the brightest bulbs in the world.....sometimes we don't get something because they just didn't feel like looking for it...it's not back ordered, they just couldn't bother to find where it is! Well ,enough complaining! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:04:09 -0500 Chris Campbell <clcampbell@charteri nternet.com> writes: . ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Digital Photography - Click Now.

Chris Campbell: I came across this article and link and thought you might enjoy it: * It is not too often when a pro sailing shooter attends a hard water event, but Oskar Kihlborg was in Sweden for the Ice Optimist and DN Junior World Championship, and has provided the 'buttheads with a rare look into this exciting segment of the sport: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/09/0307 Both your letter and the photos in Sailing, regarding the schooner Madelaine, were interesting, but better yet was meeting Tom & Chris Gibson recently and chatting up tall boats. Jon Myers Sometime ballast aboard Cal 29 Bay Breeze Volunteer crew aboard Gazela Otherwise serving Melusine, Sabre 34 MkI #094 Swan Creek, MD From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Campbell Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:01 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. **************************************************

jo… [at] peco-energy.com wrote: > > Chris Campbell: > > I came across this article and link and thought you might > enjoy it: > > > > * It is not too often when a pro sailing shooter attends a hard water > event, > > but Oskar Kihlborg was in Sweden for the Ice Optimist and DN Junior World > > Championship, > Thanks for the link. For non-iceboaters, note the mast bend and the runner plank (the transverse plank holding the after two runners) bend in some of the pics. This is how an iceboat absorbs gusts. Well, it's a good way. The other way is by what we would cal heeling, or hiking in iceboat terms, or lifting a runner. If you lift it too far, you capsize and perhaps have surgery later, as I did a couple years back. The bendy-mast, bendy-plank approach is better. Our soft-water boats heel to do the same thing. As the mast bends it flattens the sail, as we know. My boat, being of the old design, has a not-so-bendy mast and plank, and has a nylon sail that stretches out when the gust hits, a bad plan. Chris Campbell > > and has provided the 'buttheads with a rare look into this > > exciting segment of the sport: > > http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/09/0307 > <http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/photos/09/0307> > > > > Both your letter and the photos in Sailing, regarding the > schooner Madelaine, were interesting, but better yet was meeting Tom & > Chris Gibson recently and chatting up tall boats. > > > > Jon Myers > > Sometime ballast aboard Cal 29 */Bay Breeze/* > > Volunteer crew aboard*/ Gazela/* > > Otherwise serving */Melusine/*, > > Sabre 34 MkI #094 > > Swan Creek, MD > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Chris Campbell > *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 2:01 PM > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: West Marine Price Fixing > > > > ************************************************** This e-mail and any > of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary > information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. > This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of > this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of > and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the > sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of > this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. > ************************************************** > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1991 - Release Date: 3/9/2009 7:14 AM >