Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump

Hi Cal listers; Long time no see. I've been off the list for a while, but now we're thinking about some projects and I'd really like to get some input from the list. Our Cal 39 is #003, and she has no sump at all in the bilge. The bilge floor is flat from front to back. Overall the bilge is about a foot deep. It is slightly deeper under the mast, but not by more than an inch or so. We have a large-capacity bilge pump with a float switch that allows about 2 inches of water in the bilge. I haven't found a way to reduce that by much. Problem is, when we heel much, especially in a sea way, water will slop out onto the sole. For that reason and others I'd really like to reduce the amount of water in the bilge. I'm considering excavating a small sump to add a low-capacity auto bilge pump to handle the water from the drip shaft. Since its an encapsulated keel with no bolts, I'm assuming that if I took a 3-inch whole saw to the middle of the bilge floor and cut down about 2-3 inches, I'd cut through the bilge floor FRG and expose the epoxy/lead shot mix that fills the keel. I could then insert a plastic cup (like a 3" PVC end-cap) and epoxy that in place. This could then be the location of a small bilge pump with an integral float switch. Thoughts? Is this crazy? Thanks in advance, Bob W Cal 39-2 #003 "Sea Star" San Francisco

Hi Bob, Don Casey writes about this in "This Old Boat". I am in the process of implementing the idea. Here he writes about the two pump idea that keeps the bilge dry: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/19937-devising-better-bilge-pump.html Mike Robinson Holiday Cal 36 #4 Pt. Richmond, CA > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: bo… [at] bobwalden.com > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:42:06 +0000 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump > > Hi Cal listers; > > Long time no see. I've been off the list for a while, but now we're thinking about some projects and I'd really like to get some input from the list. > > Our Cal 39 is #003, and she has no sump at all in the bilge. The bilge floor is flat from front to back. Overall the bilge is about a foot deep. It is slightly deeper under the mast, but not by more than an inch or so. > > We have a large-capacity bilge pump with a float switch that allows about 2 inches of water in the bilge. I haven't found a way to reduce that by much. Problem is, when we heel much, especially in a sea way, water will slop out onto the sole. For that reason and others I'd really like to reduce the amount of water in the bilge. > > I'm considering excavating a small sump to add a low-capacity auto bilge pump to handle the water from the drip shaft. Since its an encapsulated keel with no bolts, I'm assuming that if I took a 3-inch whole saw to the middle of the bilge floor and cut down about 2-3 inches, I'd cut through the bilge floor FRG and expose the epoxy/lead shot mix that fills the keel. I could then insert a plastic cup (like a 3" PVC end-cap) and epoxy that in place. This could then be the location of a small bilge pump with an integral float switch. > > Thoughts? Is this crazy? > > Thanks in advance, > Bob W > Cal 39-2 #003 "Sea Star" > San Francisco > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009

I know little about Cal 39's, but I would think if it does have an encapsulated keel, then at the aft section there would be the large void, that an adult male can fit into. (well maybe a 160lb 5'4") much like the 40 and other Cals.. It would be nice to see a section of the hull. IS this early (Lapworth) boat that much different than the rest of the family? dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Walden Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:42 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump Hi Cal listers; Long time no see. I've been off the list for a while, but now we're thinking about some projects and I'd really like to get some input from the list. Our Cal 39 is #003, and she has no sump at all in the bilge. The bilge floor is flat from front to back. Overall the bilge is about a foot deep. It is slightly deeper under the mast, but not by more than an inch or so. We have a large-capacity bilge pump with a float switch that allows about 2 inches of water in the bilge. I haven't found a way to reduce that by much. Problem is, when we heel much, especially in a sea way, water will slop out onto the sole. For that reason and others I'd really like to reduce the amount of water in the bilge. I'm considering excavating a small sump to add a low-capacity auto bilge pump to handle the water from the drip shaft. Since its an encapsulated keel with no bolts, I'm assuming that if I took a 3-inch whole saw to the middle of the bilge floor and cut down about 2-3 inches, I'd cut through the bilge floor FRG and expose the epoxy/lead shot mix that fills the keel. I could then insert a plastic cup (like a 3" PVC end-cap) and epoxy that in place. This could then be the location of a small bilge pump with an integral float switch. Thoughts? Is this crazy? Thanks in advance, Bob W Cal 39-2 #003 "Sea Star" San Francisco

Thanks Mike. I'd seen that article, but good to review it. But I'm not really asking about the 2-pump issue, it's more the issue of how I'm thinking about making the sump, specifically for the 39-2 bilge and encapsulated keel. If anyone on the list has experience with this kind of work on these boats, I'd appreciate any insights. bw On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Michael Robinson < mi… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > Don Casey writes about this in "This Old Boat". I am in the process of > implementing the idea. Here he writes about the two pump idea that keeps the > bilge dry: > > http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/19937-devising-better-bilge-pump.html > > > *Mike Robinson* > *Holiday* > *Cal 36 #4* > *Pt. Richmond, CA* > ** > > > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > From: bo… [at] bobwalden.com > > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:42:06 +0000 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump > > > > Hi Cal listers; > > > > Long time no see. I've been off the list for a while, but now we're > thinking about some projects and I'd really like to get some input from the > list. > > > > Our Cal 39 is #003, and she has no sump at all in the bilge. The bilge > floor is flat from front to back. Overall the bilge is about a foot deep. It > is slightly deeper under the mast, but not by more than an inch or so. > > > > We have a large-capacity bilge pump with a float switch that allows about > 2 inches of water in the bilge. I haven't found a way to reduce that by > much. Problem is, when we heel much, especially in a sea way, water will > slop out onto the sole. For that reason and others I'd really like to reduce > the amount of water in the bilge. > > > > I'm considering excavating a small sump to add a low-capacity auto bilge > pump to handle the water from the drip shaft. Since its an encapsulated keel > with no bolts, I'm assuming that if I took a 3-inch whole saw to the middle > of the bilge floor and cut down about 2-3 inches, I'd cut through the bilge > floor FRG and expose the epoxy/lead shot mix that fills the keel. I could > then insert a plastic cup (like a 3" PVC end-cap) and epoxy that in place. > This could then be the location of a small bilge pump with an integral float > switch. > > > > Thoughts? Is this crazy? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Bob W > > Cal 39-2 #003 "Sea Star" > > San Francisco > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check > it out.<http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009> > > >

--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > I know little about Cal 39's, but I would think if it does have an encapsulated keel, then at the aft section there would be the large void, that an adult male can fit into. (well maybe a 160lb 5'4") much like the 40 and other Cals.. It would be nice to see a section of the hull. > > IS this early (Lapworth) boat that much different than the rest of the family? > > dEmO Timm, there is a photo of a Cal 39 here: http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/boats/action/viewImage/image/15440/boat/1125/index.html and that is a very different keel shape than the 40. I would think the idea of cutting a cup in the keel from above and epoxying a seal would work. I don't know how wide the keel is at that point, though. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Walden > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:42 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump >

So this is "not" the earlier Cal 39, that Lapworth came up with but the later Cal designed by Ray Hunt? (forgot name).. I think there was a Lapworth and Hunt Cal 39.. right? The hull number threw me off, #3, so the boat is the #3 39-2... On Freewind Cal 9.2 we "have no bilge" @ 6", so my bilge pumps are one in the middle over the keel for pumping out while upright and one each outboard of the beam under the berths so I can pump out while sailing. We carry a portable electrical pump on a cord so we can hit odd spots if the need arises. So far the boat has been quite dry... dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtkennedy1 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:30 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, <timmothy.lessley@...> wrote: > > I know little about Cal 39's, but I would think if it does have an encapsulated keel, then at the aft section there would be the large void, that an adult male can fit into. (well maybe a 160lb 5'4") much like the 40 and other Cals.. It would be nice to see a section of the hull. > > IS this early (Lapworth) boat that much different than the rest of the family? > > dEmO Timm, there is a photo of a Cal 39 here: http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/boats/action/viewImage/image/15440/boat/1125/index.html and that is a very different keel shape than the 40. I would think the idea of cutting a cup in the keel from above and epoxying a seal would work. I don't know how wide the keel is at that point, though. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Bob Walden > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:42 AM > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump >

Fellow Calsters, I am attaching a copy of a small section of Lapwoprth's plans for the California 39-2. Sorry, but I can only get an8.5" X 11" section of a 24" X 36" Drawing. The revision date on this drawing is 19 October 1976. it is from the "Arrangement" drawing but is the only one of the 4 drawings that shows the keel profile. The scale is 3/4" equals 1 foot. I think it shows that the ballast is at the very bottom of the keel. However I am not at all sure how to read this. Hopefully, some of you brainiacs can make something more of it. I would only be guessing. If you have questions or need to see another section let me know. Regards, Wayne Gillikin From: Bob Walden <bo… [at] bobwalden.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:42:06 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Cal 39-2: Putting in a Bilge Sump Hi Cal listers; Long time no see. I've been off the list for a while, but now we're thinking about some projects and I'd really like to get some input from the list. Our Cal 39 is #003, and she has no sump at all in the bilge. The bilge floor is flat from front to back. Overall the bilge is about a foot deep. It is slightly deeper under the mast, but not by more than an inch or so. We have a large-capacity bilge pump with a float switch that allows about 2 inches of water in the bilge. I haven't found a way to reduce that by much. Problem is, when we heel much, especially in a sea way, water will slop out onto the sole. For that reason and others I'd really like to reduce the amount of water in the bilge. I'm considering excavating a small sump to add a low-capacity auto bilge pump to handle the water from the drip shaft. Since its an encapsulated keel with no bolts, I'm assuming that if I took a 3-inch whole saw to the middle of the bilge floor and cut down about 2-3 inches, I'd cut through the bilge floor FRG and expose the epoxy/lead shot mix that fills the keel. I could then insert a plastic cup (like a 3" PVC end-cap) and epoxy that in place. This could then be the location of a small bilge pump with an integral float switch. Thoughts? Is this crazy? Thanks in advance, Bob W Cal 39-2 #003 "Sea Star" San Francisco