Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls(Dremel-Botch?)

Dremel/Bosch makes a knock off as well, $99 at Home Depot, but the tile cutting blade is about $30 bucks extra. I tried it but didn't like it, for cutting wood, but i might get one any way to remove chipping paint of some decaying beams on a solar rebuild job I'm doing. I hate buying German products, it is a family thing, you know, my Aunt, Uncle, and cousin were genocided. Maybe I'll spring for the American tool if I can get it for less than advertised price on TV, maybe can on Ebay? It is definately a spcialty tool for getting at narrow inacessable spots, not much good for anything else. Jerry --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Michael McElhaney <mi… [at] wahini.org> wrote: From: Michael McElhaney <mi… [at] wahini.org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 9:47 PM Just to start something... Harbor freight has Fein master knock offs on sale this week for $40. Haven't tried it. Looks chintzy. But for $40 bucks if it gets you through one job it paid for itself. I just spent $175 on a Rockwell Sonic crafter (As seen on TV!). It works ok. Proprietary expensive blades. I prefer the Fein though; it is easier to change the blades and has variable speed. The proprietary blades that they rape you for is a downer. I just got done cutting out 3 layers of rotten plywood and fiberglass and rebuilding them on a stinkpot. Couldn't have done it without an oscillating saw. Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Aye, and a Fein tool it is. As previously mentioned by someone, Fein prices have come down since patent has expired. Rockwell makes a similar tool that is cheaper. No word on longevity. I have one of each. Two hands, you know. Given the choice of going out to dinner or spending the money on a neat tool, I go for the latter. Tomorrow you are hungry again, but the tool just keeps chugging along. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:45 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls So maybe the glued carpet mastic remover is better.. ? failing that the hot scraper method and hair on fire. I'm a big fan of 36 grit sandpaper and elbow grease... and more powerful tools! My Fein Multimaster has a glue scraper blade and a carbide spade, which I'm sure would walk through this stuff.. but would take more work if the surface was not mostly smooth. I just did the Cal 40 Chain locker with the Multimaster which was lined with carpet glued down with waterproof (tan) mastic. Stayed away from chemicals. All gone now! From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of DavidOwen Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:21 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Bad News travels fast...... I've done this project, too and my experiences were similar to Wayne's. Wire brushes, various DA sanders, and even a 4" angle-grinder with 24 - 36 - 40, etc. grits just smeared the stuff around. I tried without noticeable success: Thinner Acetone Jasco paint brush cleaner/remover Interlux 206, 333, 333N, etc. etc. MEK Tueolene (laquer thinner) Denatured Alcohol Naptha? I tried with a little success, but way too much work and mess: 3M adhesive remover. It was expensive and worked slowly and required water and detergent cleanup and the surface still wasn't ready to paint without further sanding. So then, in desperation I called a couple of technical REPS at Jasco and later one at 3M. Both had ideas for me to try but nothing really worked until I spread some marine stripper on. NOTE: The stripper works even better on the polyester resin than it does the glue, so it's a real bad idea to use it unless you are just nuts desperate and stand over it and scrape the glue off before the fiberglass starts to melt as well. Not a good or fun scenario. The better option that worked for me after I had tried everything else, and the one that I settled on for the duration was a hot putty knife. A) 3M organic respirator and lots of fresh air through the boat. VERY IMPORTANT. B) Fire extinguisher close at hand. VERY IMPORTANT. C) A plumbers butane torch fastened to a large flat base so it CAN'T TIP OVER. D) A stiff putty knife about two or three inches across. E) A metal plaster-mixing- spreading box screwed to a plywood base so it won't move around on you. F) Leather gloves, jeans and a long sleeve thick shirt. HEAT THE PUTTY KNIFE, not the boat surface. Use the hot knife to slide under and lift off some glue. Scrape the glue into the metal plaster box, reheat the knife and repeat. Once you get enough of the adhesive off of the fiberglass, you can make a few passes with coarse and then finer sandpaper to finish. Good luck. Wilkie On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:30 PM, pwestla@aol. com wrote: Wayne - Boy, you're just full of good news ;-) I can't wait to get started now! Would you happen to remember the products you tried? Were they making "Goof Off" or "Oops" when you were tackling this? I assume you tried Acetone? Thanks Paul In a message dated 4/20/2009 3:22:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, waynegillikin@ yahoo.com writes: The glue is a big problem. I stripped off all the vinyl in my boat because it was coming off anyway and the foam backing was disintegrating to brown powder. The glue residue comes in two forms: dry and gummy. I took the dry glue off by using a wire wheel in an electric sander. This process makes a huge mess of the interior of the boat and contributes to much domestic disharmony. But, it works. The gummy glue just clogged the wire wheel and rendered it useless. I tried everything to remove the glue but not a single commercial solvent or glue remover had the least effect. The solution: Interlux paint remover that is safe for fiberglass. It ain't perfect but it kinda works. The gummy glue merely scoffs at all other chemicals. I really can't help with the final cosmetics as I haven't figured that out myself yet. Whatever I come up with I feel confident will not include vinyl or glue. Regards, Wayne From: "pwestla@aol. com" <pwestla@aol. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Cc: CSOA@yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:58:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Does anyone know of a good way to replace the vinyl used to cover the raw fiberglass on the walls of interior of the cabin? I don't want to go back with more vinyl and to just paint it will leave it with the texture of the fiberglass. I suppose I could fair it like a keel but I was hoping for a simpler solution that wouldn't involve sanding. Even if I replaced the vinyl it still looks like there would be a fair amount of sanding to be done to get all the dried glue off. Anyone with some silver bullets out there for removing the old glue and replacing with something new. . . besides writing a big check to someone else to do it? This is next winter's chore. I figure it'll take that long to find a good solution or save the money ;-) Thanks - Paul Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

Those Bosch tools are probably made in China anyway... come to think of it, that's not much of a consolation though. From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:13:30 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls(Dremel-Botch?) Dremel/Bosch makes a knock off as well, $99 at Home Depot, but the tile cutting blade is about $30 bucks extra. I tried it but didn't like it, for cutting wood, but i might get one any way to remove chipping paint of some decaying beams on a solar rebuild job I'm doing. I hate buying German products, it is a family thing, you know, my Aunt, Uncle, and cousin were genocided. Maybe I'll spring for the American tool if I can get it for less than advertised price on TV, maybe can on Ebay? It is definately a spcialty tool for getting at narrow inacessable spots, not much good for anything else. Jerry --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Michael McElhaney <mike@wahini. org> wrote: From: Michael McElhaney <mike@wahini. org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 9:47 PM Just to start something... Harbor freight has Fein master knock offs on sale this week for $40. Haven't tried it. Looks chintzy. But for $40 bucks if it gets you through one job it paid for itself. I just spent $175 on a Rockwell Sonic crafter (As seen on TV!). It works ok. Proprietary expensive blades. I prefer the Fein though; it is easier to change the blades and has variable speed. The proprietary blades that they rape you for is a downer. I just got done cutting out 3 layers of rotten plywood and fiberglass and rebuilding them on a stinkpot. Couldn't have done it without an oscillating saw. Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Aye, and a Fein tool it is. As previously mentioned by someone, Fein prices have come down since patent has expired. Rockwell makes a similar tool that is cheaper. No word on longevity. I have one of each. Two hands, you know. Given the choice of going out to dinner or spending the money on a neat tool, I go for the latter. Tomorrow you are hungry again, but the tool just keeps chugging along. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:45 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls So maybe the glued carpet mastic remover is better.. ? failing that the hot scraper method and hair on fire. I'm a big fan of 36 grit sandpaper and elbow grease... and more powerful tools! My Fein Multimaster has a glue scraper blade and a carbide spade, which I'm sure would walk through this stuff.. but would take more work if the surface was not mostly smooth. I just did the Cal 40 Chain locker with the Multimaster which was lined with carpet glued down with waterproof (tan) mastic. Stayed away from chemicals. All gone now! From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of DavidOwen Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:21 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Bad News travels fast...... I've done this project, too and my experiences were similar to Wayne's. Wire brushes, various DA sanders, and even a 4" angle-grinder with 24 - 36 - 40, etc. grits just smeared the stuff around. I tried without noticeable success: Thinner Acetone Jasco paint brush cleaner/remover Interlux 206, 333, 333N, etc. etc. MEK Tueolene (laquer thinner) Denatured Alcohol Naptha? I tried with a little success, but way too much work and mess: 3M adhesive remover. It was expensive and worked slowly and required water and detergent cleanup and the surface still wasn't ready to paint without further sanding. So then, in desperation I called a couple of technical REPS at Jasco and later one at 3M. Both had ideas for me to try but nothing really worked until I spread some marine stripper on. NOTE: The stripper works even better on the polyester resin than it does the glue, so it's a real bad idea to use it unless you are just nuts desperate and stand over it and scrape the glue off before the fiberglass starts to melt as well. Not a good or fun scenario. The better option that worked for me after I had tried everything else, and the one that I settled on for the duration was a hot putty knife. A) 3M organic respirator and lots of fresh air through the boat. VERY IMPORTANT. B) Fire extinguisher close at hand. VERY IMPORTANT. C) A plumbers butane torch fastened to a large flat base so it CAN'T TIP OVER. D) A stiff putty knife about two or three inches across. E) A metal plaster-mixing- spreading box screwed to a plywood base so it won't move around on you. F) Leather gloves, jeans and a long sleeve thick shirt. HEAT THE PUTTY KNIFE, not the boat surface. Use the hot knife to slide under and lift off some glue. Scrape the glue into the metal plaster box, reheat the knife and repeat. Once you get enough of the adhesive off of the fiberglass, you can make a few passes with coarse and then finer sandpaper to finish. Good luck. Wilkie On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:30 PM, pwestla@aol. com wrote: Wayne - Boy, you're just full of good news ;-) I can't wait to get started now! Would you happen to remember the products you tried? Were they making "Goof Off" or "Oops" when you were tackling this? I assume you tried Acetone? Thanks Paul In a message dated 4/20/2009 3:22:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, waynegillikin@ yahoo.com writes: The glue is a big problem. I stripped off all the vinyl in my boat because it was coming off anyway and the foam backing was disintegrating to brown powder. The glue residue comes in two forms: dry and gummy. I took the dry glue off by using a wire wheel in an electric sander. This process makes a huge mess of the interior of the boat and contributes to much domestic disharmony. But, it works. The gummy glue just clogged the wire wheel and rendered it useless. I tried everything to remove the glue but not a single commercial solvent or glue remover had the least effect. The solution: Interlux paint remover that is safe for fiberglass. It ain't perfect but it kinda works. The gummy glue merely scoffs at all other chemicals. I really can't help with the final cosmetics as I haven't figured that out myself yet. Whatever I come up with I feel confident will not include vinyl or glue. Regards, Wayne From: "pwestla@aol. com" <pwestla@aol. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Cc: CSOA@yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:58:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Does anyone know of a good way to replace the vinyl used to cover the raw fiberglass on the walls of interior of the cabin? I don't want to go back with more vinyl and to just paint it will leave it with the texture of the fiberglass. I suppose I could fair it like a keel but I was hoping for a simpler solution that wouldn't involve sanding. Even if I replaced the vinyl it still looks like there would be a fair amount of sanding to be done to get all the dried glue off. Anyone with some silver bullets out there for removing the old glue and replacing with something new. . . besides writing a big check to someone else to do it? This is next winter's chore. I figure it'll take that long to find a good solution or save the money ;-) Thanks - Paul Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

My primary purpose for the Fein/Rockwell is for cutting straight lines at edges. If one is doing a partial redeck, one can lay up the new board as a template and use the tool to cut along the edges. Deck wood is not thick so tool works well. Most CALs I've seen are best redecked from the inside. The outer glas skin is thick; the inner glas skin is almost non-existent. Don't even know how one would get a good final shape working from the outside. When I set the board, I always use jacks from the inside to force some curvature and get a tight placement against the outer skin. Also use the Fein to cut fillet bonds at corners. It definitely has its place in the tool arsenal. I found the dremel to be underpowered for things other than cutting off the occasional screw or bolt. It is compact, tho. Does things in tight spaces. I've found that the special blades for all these things are quite expensive. It's like printers. Give you the printer and stick you for the ink cartridges. Cheers Charlie From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lord Nougat Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:02 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls(Dremel-Botch?) Those Bosch tools are probably made in China anyway... come to think of it, that's not much of a consolation though. From: Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:13:30 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls(Dremel-Botch?) Dremel/Bosch makes a knock off as well, $99 at Home Depot, but the tile cutting blade is about $30 bucks extra. I tried it but didn't like it, for cutting wood, but i might get one any way to remove chipping paint of some decaying beams on a solar rebuild job I'm doing. I hate buying German products, it is a family thing, you know, my Aunt, Uncle, and cousin were genocided. Maybe I'll spring for the American tool if I can get it for less than advertised price on TV, maybe can on Ebay? It is definately a spcialty tool for getting at narrow inacessable spots, not much good for anything else. Jerry --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Michael McElhaney <mike@wahini. org> wrote: From: Michael McElhaney <mike@wahini. org> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Tools for Cabin Walls To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 9:47 PM Just to start something... Harbor freight has Fein master knock offs on sale this week for $40. Haven't tried it. Looks chintzy. But for $40 bucks if it gets you through one job it paid for itself. I just spent $175 on a Rockwell Sonic crafter (As seen on TV!). It works ok. Proprietary expensive blades. I prefer the Fein though; it is easier to change the blades and has variable speed. The proprietary blades that they rape you for is a downer. I just got done cutting out 3 layers of rotten plywood and fiberglass and rebuilding them on a stinkpot. Couldn't have done it without an oscillating saw. Husar, Charlie [USA] wrote: Aye, and a Fein tool it is. As previously mentioned by someone, Fein prices have come down since patent has expired. Rockwell makes a similar tool that is cheaper. No word on longevity. I have one of each. Two hands, you know. Given the choice of going out to dinner or spending the money on a neat tool, I go for the latter. Tomorrow you are hungry again, but the tool just keeps chugging along. Cheers Charlie From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:45 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls So maybe the glued carpet mastic remover is better.. ? failing that the hot scraper method and hair on fire. I'm a big fan of 36 grit sandpaper and elbow grease... and more powerful tools! My Fein Multimaster has a glue scraper blade and a carbide spade, which I'm sure would walk through this stuff.. but would take more work if the surface was not mostly smooth. I just did the Cal 40 Chain locker with the Multimaster which was lined with carpet glued down with waterproof (tan) mastic. Stayed away from chemicals. All gone now! From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of DavidOwen Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:21 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Bad News travels fast...... I've done this project, too and my experiences were similar to Wayne's. Wire brushes, various DA sanders, and even a 4" angle-grinder with 24 - 36 - 40, etc. grits just smeared the stuff around. I tried without noticeable success: Thinner Acetone Jasco paint brush cleaner/remover Interlux 206, 333, 333N, etc. etc. MEK Tueolene (laquer thinner) Denatured Alcohol Naptha? I tried with a little success, but way too much work and mess: 3M adhesive remover. It was expensive and worked slowly and required water and detergent cleanup and the surface still wasn't ready to paint without further sanding. So then, in desperation I called a couple of technical REPS at Jasco and later one at 3M. Both had ideas for me to try but nothing really worked until I spread some marine stripper on. NOTE: The stripper works even better on the polyester resin than it does the glue, so it's a real bad idea to use it unless you are just nuts desperate and stand over it and scrape the glue off before the fiberglass starts to melt as well. Not a good or fun scenario. The better option that worked for me after I had tried everything else, and the one that I settled on for the duration was a hot putty knife. A) 3M organic respirator and lots of fresh air through the boat. VERY IMPORTANT. B) Fire extinguisher close at hand. VERY IMPORTANT. C) A plumbers butane torch fastened to a large flat base so it CAN'T TIP OVER. D) A stiff putty knife about two or three inches across. E) A metal plaster-mixing- spreading box screwed to a plywood base so it won't move around on you. F) Leather gloves, jeans and a long sleeve thick shirt. HEAT THE PUTTY KNIFE, not the boat surface. Use the hot knife to slide under and lift off some glue. Scrape the glue into the metal plaster box, reheat the knife and repeat. Once you get enough of the adhesive off of the fiberglass, you can make a few passes with coarse and then finer sandpaper to finish. Good luck. Wilkie On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:30 PM, pwestla@aol. com wrote: Wayne - Boy, you're just full of good news ;-) I can't wait to get started now! Would you happen to remember the products you tried? Were they making "Goof Off" or "Oops" when you were tackling this? I assume you tried Acetone? Thanks Paul In a message dated 4/20/2009 3:22:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, waynegillikin@ yahoo.com writes: The glue is a big problem. I stripped off all the vinyl in my boat because it was coming off anyway and the foam backing was disintegrating to brown powder. The glue residue comes in two forms: dry and gummy. I took the dry glue off by using a wire wheel in an electric sander. This process makes a huge mess of the interior of the boat and contributes to much domestic disharmony. But, it works. The gummy glue just clogged the wire wheel and rendered it useless. I tried everything to remove the glue but not a single commercial solvent or glue remover had the least effect. The solution: Interlux paint remover that is safe for fiberglass. It ain't perfect but it kinda works. The gummy glue merely scoffs at all other chemicals. I really can't help with the final cosmetics as I haven't figured that out myself yet. Whatever I come up with I feel confident will not include vinyl or glue. Regards, Wayne From: "pwestla@aol. com" <pwestla@aol. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Cc: CSOA@yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:58:50 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Does anyone know of a good way to replace the vinyl used to cover the raw fiberglass on the walls of interior of the cabin? I don't want to go back with more vinyl and to just paint it will leave it with the texture of the fiberglass. I suppose I could fair it like a keel but I was hoping for a simpler solution that wouldn't involve sanding. Even if I replaced the vinyl it still looks like there would be a fair amount of sanding to be done to get all the dried glue off. Anyone with some silver bullets out there for removing the old glue and replacing with something new. . . besides writing a big check to someone else to do it? This is next winter's chore. I figure it'll take that long to find a good solution or save the money ;-) Thanks - Paul Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 > ! Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 > !

On Tuesday 21 April 2009 01:13:30 Gerald Sobel wrote: > Dremel/Bosch makes a knock off as well, $99 at Home Depot, but the tile > cutting blade is about $30 bucks extra. Is this the Bosch you are referring too Gerald? http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=1640VS If so, yes I would say its useless as well as it has one application only. That's for tile layers to undercut door jams. Just slip two tiles (one for the mortar one for tile) next to the door jam, lay down the blade on the tile and saw away. In 30 seconds or less you have a perfect flush cut under which you can slip a tile. Jams line up with the new floor level perfectly. That's the only purpose for this tool. Use it on all my tile jobs. You can stretch it into a few other uses but you really need to know the tool well to make it perform adequately outside its design parameter. Best regards -- /ch