Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls

If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTIk3kPfsppJmIqZHqAOutxZTwh07iWOA7DKhiumMW2IZC7zxypsFi/

I'm not re-doing the ceiling, just the saloon walls between the ports (don't think this is called a bulkhead is it?) and the aft innermost wall (for clarification, aren't bulkheads perpendicular to the hull? ) of the aft cabin. The vinyl runs all the way under the decks and forms the ceiling of the cabinets. Thanks - Paul From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls  If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballo ons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2 009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here.

West with 410 is a little brittle verses some of the other fillers, but I think if your boat flexes enough to break the 410 combination, you have other problems. 410 sands incredibly easy, so this project should go faster than you might think. Oddly when you have the nice thick 410 (heavy peanut butter) mixture, it tend to kick over fairly fast when in the mixing pot. Consider keeping the mass of mixture "small" by mixing in a larger pot or on a sheet of plastic to slow down the kicking process. We always use 205 fast catalyst in the Northwest.. so once you get started you should plan on moving fast with a fairly wide spreader. Once the mixture starts to kick, you'll see pock marks while you are toweling, so you have to spread real slow, and maybe have to stop. It usually take two to three layers to get a smooth surface. A scratch coat to make the overall surface, then a blend coat to fill in any air bubbles and low spots, then a final coat to make a uniform system. Each successive coat is sanded by a finer grain of sandpaper. If you have ever done auto body work, this is similar and easier. dEmO From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rodney G Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:51 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls  If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com<mailto:pw… [at] aol.com> writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here.<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/BLSrjpTIk3kPfsppJmIqZHqAOutxZTwh07iWOA7DKhiumMW2IZC7zxypsFi/>

That IS the ceiling. Ceiling is what lines the insides of the hull, overhead is what we call a "ceiling" on land. Bulkheads are usually perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, unless it is a big boat and has "walls" that divide the interior and run fore & aft, in that case those are also known as bulkheads. So, I guess the true definition of a bulkhead is the same as a partition on land....as well as a structural panel perpendicular to the centerline. Basically, walls on land are bulkheads on a boat, unless we are referring to the inside surfaces of the hull, then they are ceiling. If the vinyl areas being replaced are covering the inside surface of the cabin trunk (not the hull) then they are usually known as...........OK, you got me there! I've always called that area "the inside of the cabin trunk sides".......I'm not really sure what the correct term is...? Anyone wish to chime in here? Occasionally even "know-it-alls" need help! Rod Johnson On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:09:35 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: I'm not re-doing the ceiling, just the saloon walls between the ports (don't think this is called a bulkhead is it?) and the aft innermost wall (for clarification, aren't bulkheads perpendicular to the hull? ) of the aft cabin. The vinyl runs all the way under the decks and forms the ceiling of the cabinets. Thanks - Paul From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls ? If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on=2 0the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 =0 A and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul _______ _____________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. Green cleaning products -- do they work as well? Find out now! Can't pay your bills? Click here to learn about filing for bankruptcy. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTLjhZ3FV5tXDu1VGcjm04b4YpuooGigwDj3FlmwhvCAOi6lkfBGuc/

Nautical Jargon can be a killer.... like the story of the new crew who was told to trim the main sheet. "When we tack, just pull in this line, but don't make it fast." In the tack the main was flogging wildly and the skipper looked at the new crew and he was pulling the main sheet in _very slowly_. So -- the "ceiling" is the covering on the inside of the Hull while the Overhead is the underside of the deck more or less. Technically, even the cabin sole was part of the ceiling, as it covered floors and ribs. Dating back to wooden boat terminology, many smaller craft did not have ceilings as the inside of the hull is visible between the ribs, floors etc. Taking this forward to fiberglass construction, Mariposa had a teak ceiling when I bought her (prior owner installed firring strips and battens) but it's been stripped and she has no ceiling at all now. Wilkie On Apr 21, 2009, at 9:35 AM, Rodney G Johnson wrote: > > > > I'm not re-doing the ceiling, just the saloon walls between the > ports (don't think this is called a bulkhead is it?) and the aft > innermost wall (for clarification, aren't bulkheads perpendicular to > the hull? ) of the aft cabin. The vinyl runs all the way under the > decks and forms the ceiling of the cabinets. > > > Thanks - > > Paul > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:51 am > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls > > > > > If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or > are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look > nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all > the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say > "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a > boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. > > As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with > thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV > with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on=2 0the inside of the > hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things > a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same > process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large > flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our > old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture > of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to > purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 > years ago though.....worth checking though! > > The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of > smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate > and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to > maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about > was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on > the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the > quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) > > Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" > 1979 O'DAY DS II > #10201 > =0 A > and former co-owner of > "NODROG" > 1970 CAL 21 #285 > > On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: > Okay, > > So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait > until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in > January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl > from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually > happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 > lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will > paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to > crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner > as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have > to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. > > This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other > ideas. > > Thanks - > > Paul > > > _______ _____________________________________________________ > Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. > > Green cleaning products -- do they work as well? Find out now! > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Can't pay your bills? Click here to learn about filing for bankruptcy. > >

Those of you who removed your vinyl . . . was it sandwiched between the port frames? My ports are painted aluminum and I'd like to remove them and repaint them while I'm at it to make it easier to sand the interior between them as well as making the ports look better but may not have that much time available to get involved in re-bedding all the ports. Thanks - Paul From: Rodney G Johnson <rj… [at] juno.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls  If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John Griviscus and he did exactly that on the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He us ed epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 and former co-owner of "NODROG" 197 0 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pw… [at] aol.com writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here.

The ports on my 39 have an aluminum trim feature that allowed me to remove the vinyl without compromising the bedding seal. The PO had re-bedded the ports just prior to sale and I didn't want to undo that job because of the vinyl. The vinyl job is nasty enough. Regards, Wayne From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:58:48 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls Those of you who removed your vinyl . . . was it sandwiched between the port frames? My ports are painted aluminum and I'd like to remove them and repaint them while I'm at it to make it easier to sand the interior between them as well as making the ports look better but may not have that much time available to get involved in re-bedding all the ports. Thanks - Paul From: Rodney G Johnson <rjohnson24@juno. com> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Replacing Interior Vinyl on Cabin Walls  If the ceiling was already done, why are you planning to redo it? Or are you removing the vinyl from the overhead? Your boat must look nice with all the wood slats covering the ceiling, as well as all the bulkheads (I assume that you mean bulkheads when you say "walls"? Houses have walls, boats have bulkheads). The ceiling on a boat is the covering for the inside of the hull. As far as the idea of smoothing the hull interior surface with thickened epoxy, then painting it....I regularly watch SHIPSHAPE-TV with John G riviscus and he did exactly that on the inside of the hulls of several of his fiberglass powerboats (well, he does things a bit fancy at times, so used AWLGRIP, but still basically the same process!) and it sure worked for him. I would think that the large flat areas of a powerboat hull would flex at least as much as our old CAL hulls, if not more! He used epoxy thickened with a mixture of microballoons and coloidial silica fillers. You may be able to purchase a copy of that episode from his web site, it aired about 5 years ago though.....worth checking though! The early (ours was a 1970) CAL 21s were built with a layer of smooth fiberglass cloth as the innermost layer of the hull laminate and this was sanded and painted. It looked good and was easy to maintain. (that awful paint/resin/ glop coating everyone talks about was only on the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside of the cockpit seats. That was down over the quarterberths, so wasn't really visible!) Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" ; 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 and former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:46:24 -0400 pwestla@aol. com writes: Okay, So what I'm hearing is that don't attempt this job in August, wait until the boat is on the hard, dress warm and attack the removal in January in subfreezing temps. I was told not to go back with vinyl from someone not on the list as the same thing will eventually happen again. I am leaning toward West Systems epoxy with the 410 lightweight filler to smooth out the texture in the walls and will paint it when done. I just hope that it will flex enough not to crack. The ceiling was done with wood slats by the previous owner as was the aft, port cabin wall and the v-berth walls so all I have to do is the main saloon and the inside, aft cabin wall. This job is a long way off so I'm still willing to consider other ideas. Thanks - Paul ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. Green cleaning products -- do they work as well? Find out now!

Rodney G Johnson wrote: > > >  > > (that awful paint/resin/glop coating everyone talks about was only on > the overhead and stood up fine on our boat...except on the underside > of the cockpit seats. Does anybody know what this stuff was? It's a perplexing goop because it's tenacious as hell where it wants to be, and just flakes off elsewhere. It's resistant to all but the strongest, smelliest paint removers. Ugh. Chris Campbell