Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.)

Chris H., Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> wrote: From: chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch

but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: tm… [at] yahoo.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) Chris H., Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> wrote: From: chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch

how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

can't really tell y0u. Two strong fellas can carry one if they must. It will include everything attached to the mast....all standing rigging and masthead running rigging and wiring, etc. To: my… [at] hotmail.com CC: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: sa… [at] yahoo.com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:35:12 -0700 Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

The Kenyon spar for the later Cal 227 weighs 3.7 #/ft the older masts weigh more. The total weight for a 35 ft section with masthead fittings, halyards, shrouds, spreaders is about 175 - 200 pounds, Very easy to lift with a 4 to 1 advantage hoist; the trick is keeping it vertical and aligning it with the mast step while the crew walks on the deck and inserts the pins. Dropping it half way up can cause some problems, but that's another story. John Boyce _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:35 PM To: my… [at] hotmail.com Cc: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

The crane operator at Morgan Marina estimated my mast at 800 pounds. The change in the waterline with and without the mast would tend to support his claim. The stick measures 51' and is keel stepped with the over water clearance at 50' meaning the step is about 1' below the waterline. This guy is one of the best who has ever hauled my mast, so, if you find yourself in New Jersey, and need a mast hauled or stepped, Morgan Marina is the place to go! The only source of water in my bilge has been from the sheaves on the top of the mast down to the step, and since we have moved to the desert that is central California, our bilge is dry for the first time in the 23 years we have owned the boat. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: John Boyce <je… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:59:08 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) The Kenyon spar for the later Cal 227 weighs 3.7 #/ft the older masts weigh more. The total weight for a 35 ft section with masthead fittings, halyards, shrouds, spreaders is about 175 - 200 pounds, Very easy to lift with a 4 to 1 advantage hoist; the trick is keeping it vertical and aligning it with the mast step while the crew walks on the deck and inserts the pins. Dropping it half way up can cause some problems, but that's another story. John Boyce From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Randy Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:35 PM To: my1972ih@hotmail. com Cc: cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

For what it's worth, we actually had our Cal-40 mast weighted. 434 pounds, including all rigging (no halyards) and our radar antenna. Fin Beven Cal-40 #24 Radiant San Pedro, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Dutton<mailto:dn… [at] sbcglobal.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(John Boyce) The crane operator at Morgan Marina estimated my mast at 800 pounds. The change in the waterline with and without the mast would tend to support his claim. The stick measures 51' and is keel stepped with the over water clearance at 50' meaning the step is about 1' below the waterline. This guy is one of the best who has ever hauled my mast, so, if you find yourself in New Jersey, and need a mast hauled or stepped, Morgan Marina is the place to go! The only source of water in my bilge has been from the sheaves on the top of the mast down to the step, and since we have moved to the desert that is central California, our bilge is dry for the first time in the 23 years we have owned the boat. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: John Boyce <je… [at] gmail.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:59:08 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) The Kenyon spar for the later Cal 227 weighs 3.7 #/ft the older masts weigh more. The total weight for a 35 ft section with masthead fittings, halyards, shrouds, spreaders is about 175 - 200 pounds, Very easy to lift with a 4 to 1 advantage hoist; the trick is keeping it vertical and aligning it with the mast step while the crew walks on the deck and inserts the pins. Dropping it half way up can cause some problems, but that's another story. John Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://ps.com/> [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com<http://s.com/>] On Behalf Of Randy Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:35 PM To: my1972ih@hotmail. com Cc: cal_boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? Randy r good wrote: > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > Reggie > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch >

Donald Dutton wrote: > > > The crane operator at Morgan Marina estimated my mast at 800 pounds. > The change in the waterline with and without the mast would tend to > support his claim. The stick measures 51' and is keel stepped with > the over water clearance at 50' meaning the step is about 1' below the > waterline. This guy is one of the best who has ever hauled my mast, > so, if you find yourself in New Jersey, and need a mast hauled or > stepped, Morgan Marina is the place to go! My other boat has a deck-stepped wooden mast that's about 28 feet above deck level. The first year we owned the boat, when I was 21 and had a much newer body, we tried unstepping the mast by hand, just tilting it down on the big sturdy hinged step. How hard could that be? Why pay the marina all that money to do it? It was a fundamental misunderstanding of physics and how levers work. The thing got MUCH heavier as it came off of vertical toward the horizontal. I couldn't use my right shoulder for a month after I went back to college. I broke the glass globe on the masthead light and sliced my right hand with it. What a disaster, and an early lesson in why it's often worth paying to do something the better way. In those years, they had an old guy with a fondness for the bottle who ran an old crane, the kind with clutches and cables and drums. He liked to sample his bottle for breakfast and the crane was a balky old thing. But somehow it worked. And then the marina got new equipment and new operators, sober and professional, and the current guy can drop that mast down so the pivot pin on the step lines up /just right/. It's incredible. So I can recommend Bay Harbor Marina in Bay City, MI. Chris Campbell

On Wednesday 29 April 2009 17:39:26 david dobbs wrote: > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of > sailboats have started to store mast up. While not the well experienced with the issue but it just makes sense to me to have the mast down over the winter/summer pending your storage season. At out club we use the facilities of the neighboring club to raise and lower the masts. Now mind you our sailing club is limited to 25 footer keel boats. But if I had an expensive 29+ footer and say storing it in Florida over the summer, I would definitely take the mast down and then inspect everything prior to it being raised. OK so it costs say 200 bucks at the high end. I would argue that just insurance. On the other hand, most Canadians I know do not insure their boats unless required by the marina but that's just third party liability. Perhaps its as simple as a cultural difference. -- /ch

My mast (1972 Cal 27 p-t) weighs in at about 125#- that includes the shrouds and stays. Since my club (CSYC) has a gin pole (Radocy lift), I unstep mine each fall. Only takes 3 people to step/unstep, and 2 men to carry. Dave Leasia '72 Cal 27 pop-top #145 s/v Candy Cane Grosse Pointe Farms, MI --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@...> wrote: > > > how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? > > Randy > > r good wrote: > > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > > > Reggie > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > > Chris H., > > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on > the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch > > >

I am guessing from these communications that the yardman at Morgan was a tad on the high side with his estimate for my mast of 800 lbs. Probably in the range of 4 - 450 lbs from what everyone else is saying. I know that with the shrouds attached and the base of the mast 1/2" above the step it took every bit of my 240 lbs to move it 1/8" to the left so that it seated on the step as he lowered that last 1/2" down onto the mast step. I absolutely did not put my hands between the mast and the bulkhead but held onto the aft side of the mast to pull it into place. I also know that he did such a good job of judging the vertical level when he started lowering that there was no need for adjustment beyond that 1/8" as the mast came the 6 feet from the deck opening to the step. If you think about it for a while you will realize how much experience that takes to accomplish from a crane 20' from the boat and holding the mast 25' above the deck! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Dave Leasia <te… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 9:49:12 AM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Mast Up or Down(Chris H.)- weight My mast (1972 Cal 27 p-t) weighs in at about 125#- that includes the shrouds and stays. Since my club (CSYC) has a gin pole (Radocy lift), I unstep mine each fall. Only takes 3 people to step/unstep, and 2 men to carry. Dave Leasia '72 Cal 27 pop-top #145 s/v Candy Cane Grosse Pointe Farms, MI --- In Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@. ..> wrote: > > > how much weight are we talking for CAL 27/ 29 mast with wiring in it ? or without? > > Randy > > r good wrote: > > but, there are masts, and then there are MASTS! > > > > and ways to step a CAL 27 mast while on the trailer with just me and my wife > > > > Reggie > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com From: tmft567@yahoo. com Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) > > Chris H., > > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of sailboats have started to store mast up. I think that puts at least some unanticipated strain on the rig. besides, mast down storage is cheaper, and it only costs me $40 to raise or lower my mast. My club has a gin pole and a mast storage rack, so I don't even take it to the yard. > > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, chris h <chris123@magma. ca> wrote: > > From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Wiring, et al To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 6:29 AM > > On Tuesday 28 April 2009 18:59:55 david dobbs wrote: > Listees, > All your mast wiring and rigging problems could be solved easily. Move to > the Midwest. We take our masts down every Fall and put them back up in > Spring. Gives you time to fix any problems, make improvements, etc. > Course the weather is limiting, but we have all this white, fluffy stuff in > Winter, you could get to like it. Well, I do have to admit it does get a > trifle cold, but hey, down jackets. Bring your skis. My apple trees have > begun blooming, and I think I'll mow tomorrow. Thursday I'll be at the > boatyard. > Regards, > David Dobbs, Cal29 411 > Iv often wondered about that. Here in the North (North shore of Lake Ontario) we always remove the masts. Yet strangely enough, on the South Shore the masts always stay up when the boats are pulled. While it is a cost savings to some degree I guess it really deters the owner from fully inspecting and working on > the mast and associated accoutrement' s each spring. Whats more interesting is when i see hurricane damaged boats from further south and ofter wonder if the boats on the hard would not be better off with the stick down and boats secured with additional straps anchored into the the ground. Certainly would not hurt if liive in a hurricane prone area. -- /ch > > >

The only time my mast has been removed from my boat and replaced has been to move it overland via truck. From Houston to St. Pete to New Jersey, to Panama City to San Francisco Bay the boat has spent every winter in the water with the mast up. Someone convinced me a long time ago that sailboats are designed to have the keel hanging from the hull, not to have the hull standing on the keel. To fight ice in New Jersey I purchased an "ice eater" that was an electric motor with a propeller mounted on top and was placed just forward of the keel and canted 20 degrees aft. It turned on with a thermostat when the air temperature reached 20 degrees or less. I never had any ice form within 4 feet of the boat with this running. I doubt this would work in Michigan as evidenced by the pulling of the docks as well as the boats. The only time I considered my decision unwise was a March thaw one year in Morgan Marina when all of the ice from up stream kept banging on the keel as it passed by at 4 knots. Bottom job that spring showed no marks or damage, but listening to the bangs and knocks while living aboard was disconcerting nonetheless! Considering the fact that there has been no loss of stiffness to the hull nor any alignment problems from 3 long distance hauls on trucks says that I am being overly protective, but in most places I have lived hauling for the winter simply is not necessary and the danger involved in dropping the mast through the deck and onto the step has limited any attempt to remove the mast other than for those truck trips. I would rather go up in a bosun's chair than pull the mast. The Cal 33-2 came with conduit already installed in the mast to keep the internal halyards separated from the wiring. There is no banging inside the mast at all with the halyards taught and cleated. And the sheaves are still in good condition after 23 years. For hurricane preparedness in Houston and Florida we removed all canvas, ran light weight polypropylene leaders in place of the halyards and tightened the sidestays to eliminate any slack. During one storm we had evidence of 20 degrees of heel in the slip even with all of that weight removed from the mast. Boats put ashore were blocked and left with mast up as the 24 hours or less of preparation time simply doesn't allow for time to remove masts. However, the marina would not pull and block any boat with any canvas or sails remaining on the boat -- a wise precaution. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) On Wednesday 29 April 2009 17:39:26 david dobbs wrote: > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of > sailboats have started to store mast up. While not the well experienced with the issue but it just makes sense to me to have the mast down over the winter/summer pending your storage season. At out club we use the facilities of the neighboring club to raise and lower the masts. Now mind you our sailing club is limited to 25 footer keel boats. But if I had an expensive 29+ footer and say storing it in Florida over the summer, I would definitely take the mast down and then inspect everything prior to it being raised. OK so it costs say 200 bucks at the high end. I would argue that just insurance. On the other hand, most Canadians I know do not insure their boats unless required by the marina but that's just third party liability. Perhaps its as simple as a cultural difference. -- /ch

Donald Dutton wrote: > > > The only time my mast has been removed from my boat and replaced has > been to move it overland via truck. From Houston to St. Pete to New > Jersey, to Panama City to San Francisco Bay the boat has spent every > winter in the water with the mast up. Someone convinced me a long > time ago that sailboats are designed to have the keel hanging from the > hull, not to have the hull standing on the keel. Strangely enough, others convinced me that at least when hauled out, it's better for the Cal 20 to be sitting on her keel than to be supported on the hull with the keel hanging. But I think that you're right: ideally, our boats are designed to be floating, supported uniformly across the hull surface under the waterline, and being out of the water is a less favorable situation whether the boat is sitting on the keel or not. The keel weighs less underwater too. > To fight ice in New Jersey I purchased an "ice eater" that was an > electric motor with a propeller mounted on top and was placed just > forward of the keel and canted 20 degrees aft. It turned on with a > thermostat when the air temperature reached 20 degrees or less. I > never had any ice form within 4 feet of the boat with this running. I > doubt this would work in Michigan as evidenced by the pulling of the > docks as well as the boats. Some docks are bubbled, to prevent the ice from forming around the pilings and lifting them or the ice from carrying them away. Ice movement is an interesting phenomenon. I have a small summer cottage on Saginaw Bay, a very large shallow bay on Lake Huron's west side (it forms Michigan's "Thumb" region). In 1946 a NE wind pushed the ice ashore and it knocked down the little cottage. The original owner propped up the roof and rebuilt the place. It happens in the spring with just the right combination of strong onshore wind and sun-weakened ice. This spring it came ashore again, but this time there was a concrete sea wall in its way so it piled up about 30 ' above the water level, maybe 20' above the ground level behind the sea wall, and came within 10 feet of the little cottage again. It was just a massive pile of ice, carrying sand and gravel just like the glaciers did 12,000 years ago. My flag pole now has a gentle arc from the vertical (do they make Viagra for flag poles?). But the lesson is that once the ice starts moving, it has a huge mass that's very hard to stop. My neighbors are recent year-round residents with a very nice house they built. I had shown them historic ice pictures and they didn't really understand the concept until they headed out their back door to escape this spring. Chris Campbell

Don, Remind me again where you have your Cal 33-2? We are finally getting back to Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay this summer. Alcyone II has been on the hard for a while (4 YEARS) so now I hope she stays together when I put her back in the water. She has been at Annapolis Naval Station out on the point but has done well. Blue Skies, Darr LaFon, Alcyone II Cal 33-2 _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:38 PM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) The only time my mast has been removed from my boat and replaced has been to move it overland via truck. From Houston to St. Pete to New Jersey, to Panama City to San Francisco Bay the boat has spent every winter in the water with the mast up. Someone convinced me a long time ago that sailboats are designed to have the keel hanging from the hull, not to have the hull standing on the keel. To fight ice in New Jersey I purchased an "ice eater" that was an electric motor with a propeller mounted on top and was placed just forward of the keel and canted 20 degrees aft. It turned on with a thermostat when the air temperature reached 20 degrees or less. I never had any ice form within 4 feet of the boat with this running. I doubt this would work in Michigan as evidenced by the pulling of the docks as well as the boats. The only time I considered my decision unwise was a March thaw one year in Morgan Marina when all of the ice from up stream kept banging on the keel as it passed by at 4 knots. Bottom job that spring showed no marks or damage, but listening to the bangs and knocks while living aboard was disconcerting nonetheless! Considering the fact that there has been no loss of stiffness to the hull nor any alignment problems from 3 long distance hauls on trucks says that I am being overly protective, but in most places I have lived hauling for the winter simply is not necessary and the danger involved in dropping the mast through the deck and onto the step has limited any attempt to remove the mast other than for those truck trips. I would rather go up in a bosun's chair than pull the mast. The Cal 33-2 came with conduit already installed in the mast to keep the internal halyards separated from the wiring. There is no banging inside the mast at all with the halyards taught and cleated. And the sheaves are still in good condition after 23 years. For hurricane preparedness in Houston and Florida we removed all canvas, ran light weight polypropylene leaders in place of the halyards and tightened the sidestays to eliminate any slack. During one storm we had evidence of 20 degrees of heel in the slip even with all of that weight removed from the mast. Boats put ashore were blocked and left with mast up as the 24 hours or less of preparation time simply doesn't allow for time to remove masts. However, the marina would not pull and block any boat with any canvas or sails remaining on the boat -- a wise precaution. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain _____ From: chris h <ch… [at] magma.ca> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) On Wednesday 29 April 2009 17:39:26 david dobbs wrote: > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of > sailboats have started to store mast up. While not the well experienced with the issue but it just makes sense to me to have the mast down over the winter/summer pending your storage season. At out club we use the facilities of the neighboring club to raise and lower the masts. Now mind you our sailing club is limited to 25 footer keel boats. But if I had an expensive 29+ footer and say storing it in Florida over the summer, I would definitely take the mast down and then inspect everything prior to it being raised. OK so it costs say 200 bucks at the high end. I would argue that just insurance. On the other hand, most Canadians I know do not insure their boats unless required by the marina but that's just third party liability. Perhaps its as simple as a cultural difference. -- /ch

Our Cal 33-2 is currently docked at Marina Village ( http://www.marinavillageharbor.com/index.html ) on Alameda Island on the central eastern side of San Francisco Bay, California. Her dockage has included Watergate and Waterford Harbor, Houston, TX; The Harborage, St. Petersburg, FL; Private slip, Vina del Mar Island, FL; Morgan Marina, Morgan, NJ; (Can't remember Marina name, but it was our favorite -- eat at Annies and have the crab bisque!), Grasonville, MD; Wharton Creek Marina, Wharton Creek, MD; Liberty Landing Marina, Liberty State Park, NJ (weekly fireworks in summer); Watson Bayou Marina (great hurricane hole), Panama City, FL; Moss Landing Marina, Moss Landing, CA (Monterey Bay); San Leandro Marina, San Leandro, CA; and finally Marina Village. We retain state flags from each of her berthings and fly them all when we dress ship for a celebration such as Blessing of the Fleet or Season Opening Day. Our mast was dropped in Watergate Marina, TX, raised in Morgan Marina, NJ, dropped in Morgan Marina, NJ, raised again in Panama City, FL (Scary job), dropped in Panama City, FL (scary), and raised at Gravelle's Boat Yard, Moss Landing, CA -- another recommended boat yard for mast work! The Derek M. Bayliss vessel with twin carbon fibre spars over 75' tall sailed from San Francisco Bay down to Moss Landing to have Gravelles haul their masts and work on both boat and masts. The Bayliss was docked on our dock for about 2 months during this period. They could have gone anywhere and chose Gravelles -- we just got lucky! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS We loved sailing the Chesapeake and stayed at Annapolis on one very memorable vacation trip that took us all over the central Chesapeake Bay. The Miles River and Chester Rivers were our favorite destinations, but there are few bad places to go on the Chesapeake. Just wish we had more wind! "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: darr lafon <da… [at] cinci.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:24:04 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) Don, Remind me again where you have your Cal 33-2? We are finally getting back to Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay this summer. Alcyone II has been on the hard for a while (4 YEARS) so now I hope she stays together when I put her back in the water. She has been at Annapolis Naval Station out on the point but has done well. Blue Skies, Darr LaFon, Alcyone II Cal 33-2 From:Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) The only time my mast has been removed from my boat and replaced has been to move it overland via truck. From Houston to St. Pete to New Jersey , to Panama City to San Francisco Bay the boat has spent every winter in the water with the mast up. Someone convinced me a long time ago that sailboats are designed to have the keel hanging from the hull, not to have the hull standing on the keel. To fight ice in New Jersey I purchased an "ice eater" that was an electric motor with a propeller mounted on top and was placed just forward of the keel and canted 20 degrees aft. It turned on with a thermostat when the air temperature reached 20 degrees or less. I never had any ice form within 4 feet of the boat with this running. I doubt this would work in Michigan as evidenced by the pulling of the docks as well as the boats. The only time I considered my decision unwise was a March thaw one year in Morgan Marina when all of the ice from up stream kept banging on the keel as it passed by at 4 knots. Bottom job that spring showed no marks or damage, but listening to the bangs and knocks while living aboard was disconcerting nonetheless! Considering the fact that there has been no loss of stiffness to the hull nor any alignment problems from 3 long distance hauls on trucks says that I am being overly protective, but in most places I have lived hauling for the winter simply is not necessary and the danger involved in dropping the mast through the deck and onto the step has limited any attempt to remove the mast other than for those truck trips. I would rather go up in a bosun's chair than pull the mast. The Cal 33-2 came with conduit already installed in the mast to keep the internal halyards separated from the wiring. There is no banging inside the mast at all with the halyards taught and cleated. And the sheaves are still in good condition after 23 years. For hurricane preparedness in Houston and Florida we removed all canvas, ran light weight polypropylene leaders in place of the halyards and tightened the sidestays to eliminate any slack. During one storm we had evidence of 20 degrees of heel in the slip even with all of that weight removed from the mast. Boats put ashore were blocked and left with mast up as the 24 hours or less of preparation time simply doesn't allow for time to remove masts. However, the marina would not pull and block any boat with any canvas or sails remaining on the boat -- a wise precaution. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From:chris h <chris123@magma. ca> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) On Wednesday 29 April 2009 17:39:26 david dobbs wrote: > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of > sailboats have started to store mast up. While not the well experienced with the issue but it just makes sense to me to have the mast down over the winter/summer pending your storage season. At out club we use the facilities of the neighboring club to raise and lower the masts. Now mind you our sailing club is limited to 25 footer keel boats. But if I had an expensive 29+ footer and say storing it in Florida over the summer, I would definitely take the mast down and then inspect everything prior to it being raised. OK so it costs say 200 bucks at the high end. I would argue that just insurance. On the other hand, most Canadians I know do not insure their boats unless required by the marina but that's just third party liability. Perhaps its as simple as a cultural difference. -- /ch

Gee, And I thought I had moved a lot. Are you in the Navy? Alcoyone I (a Dufour 29) went from Pensacola to Navarre, Florida, then New Orleans, then Rodman Naval Station, Panama and then Canyon Lake, San Antonio, Texas. I am Air Force. Alcyone II, Cal 33-2, I bought at Salt Ponds Marina whle stationed at Langley AFB, VA. Then up to Annapolis while at Pentagon, then trucked back to Eglin AFB, Florida, then sailed back to Annapolis. On the hard there for the last 4 years,but moving for the last time to Baltimore - Annapolis area and will put her back in the water in July, I hope. Dropped mast once to truck from Annapolis to Eglin AFB, Florida (near Destin/Fort Walton Beach area) Dropped at Bert Jabin's in Annapolis. They did fine, outstanding work. Raised at Sahlimar Yacht Basin (would never go there again) I think I would rather sail around Cape Horn than take the mast down again after that experience!!!!! Great idea on the flags, I may copy that one! For dressing ship. Although I would have to combine both Alcyones to have close to as many as yours. Blue Skies, Darr LaFon PS - The wind on the Chesapeake is definitely not like SF Bay. But easier on the wine bottles down below. _____ From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:35 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down (Darr) Our Cal 33-2 is currently docked at Marina Village ( http://www.marinavi <http://www.marinavillageharbor.com/index.html> llageharbor.com/index.html ) on Alameda Island on the central eastern side of San Francisco Bay, California. Her dockage has included Watergate and Waterford Harbor, Houston, TX; The Harborage, St. Petersburg, FL; Private slip, Vina del Mar Island, FL; Morgan Marina, Morgan, NJ; (Can't remember Marina name, but it was our favorite -- eat at Annies and have the crab bisque!), Grasonville, MD; Wharton Creek Marina, Wharton Creek, MD; Liberty Landing Marina, Liberty State Park, NJ (weekly fireworks in summer); Watson Bayou Marina (great hurricane hole), Panama City, FL; Moss Landing Marina, Moss Landing, CA (Monterey Bay); San Leandro Marina, San Leandro, CA; and finally Marina Village. We retain state flags from each of her berthings and fly them all when we dress ship for a celebration such as Blessing of the Fleet or Season Opening Day. Our mast was dropped in Watergate Marina, TX, raised in Morgan Marina, NJ, dropped in Morgan Marina, NJ, raised again in Panama City, FL (Scary job), dropped in Panama City, FL (scary), and raised at Gravelle's Boat Yard, Moss Landing, CA -- another recommended boat yard for mast work! The Derek M. Bayliss vessel with twin carbon fibre spars over 75' tall sailed from San Francisco Bay down to Moss Landing to have Gravelles haul their masts and work on both boat and masts. The Bayliss was docked on our dock for about 2 months during this period. They could have gone anywhere and chose Gravelles -- we just got lucky! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" PS We loved sailing the Chesapeake and stayed at Annapolis on one very memorable vacation trip that took us all over the central Chesapeake Bay. The Miles River and Chester Rivers were our favorite destinations, but there are few bad places to go on the Chesapeake. Just wish we had more wind! "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain _____ From: darr lafon <da… [at] cinci.rr.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:24:04 PM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) Don, Remind me again where you have your Cal 33-2? We are finally getting back to Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay this summer. Alcyone II has been on the hard for a while (4 YEARS) so now I hope she stays together when I put her back in the water. She has been at Annapolis Naval Station out on the point but has done well. Blue Skies, Darr LaFon, Alcyone II Cal 33-2 _____ From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Donald Dutton Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:38 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) The only time my mast has been removed from my boat and replaced has been to move it overland via truck. From Houston to St. Pete to New Jersey , to Panama City to San Francisco Bay the boat has spent every winter in the water with the mast up. Someone convinced me a long time ago that sailboats are designed to have the keel hanging from the hull, not to have the hull standing on the keel. To fight ice in New Jersey I purchased an "ice eater" that was an electric motor with a propeller mounted on top and was placed just forward of the keel and canted 20 degrees aft. It turned on with a thermostat when the air temperature reached 20 degrees or less. I never had any ice form within 4 feet of the boat with this running. I doubt this would work in Michigan as evidenced by the pulling of the docks as well as the boats. The only time I considered my decision unwise was a March thaw one year in Morgan Marina when all of the ice from up stream kept banging on the keel as it passed by at 4 knots. Bottom job that spring showed no marks or damage, but listening to the bangs and knocks while living aboard was disconcerting nonetheless! Considering the fact that there has been no loss of stiffness to the hull nor any alignment problems from 3 long distance hauls on trucks says that I am being overly protective, but in most places I have lived hauling for the winter simply is not necessary and the danger involved in dropping the mast through the deck and onto the step has limited any attempt to remove the mast other than for those truck trips. I would rather go up in a bosun's chair than pull the mast. The Cal 33-2 came with conduit already installed in the mast to keep the internal halyards separated from the wiring. There is no banging inside the mast at all with the halyards taught and cleated. And the sheaves are still in good condition after 23 years. For hurricane preparedness in Houston and Florida we removed all canvas, ran light weight polypropylene leaders in place of the halyards and tightened the sidestays to eliminate any slack. During one storm we had evidence of 20 degrees of heel in the slip even with all of that weight removed from the mast. Boats put ashore were blocked and left with mast up as the 24 hours or less of preparation time simply doesn't allow for time to remove masts. However, the marina would not pull and block any boat with any canvas or sails remaining on the boat -- a wise precaution. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain _____ From: chris h <chris123@magma. ca> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:39:55 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Mast Up or Down(Chris H.) On Wednesday 29 April 2009 17:39:26 david dobbs wrote: > Chris H., > Actually there are 2 yards in Chicago that have mast up storage. A lot of > sailboats have started to store mast up. While not the well experienced with the issue but it just makes sense to me to have the mast down over the winter/summer pending your storage season. At out club we use the facilities of the neighboring club to raise and lower the masts. Now mind you our sailing club is limited to 25 footer keel boats. But if I had an expensive 29+ footer and say storing it in Florida over the summer, I would definitely take the mast down and then inspect everything prior to it being raised. OK so it costs say 200 bucks at the high end. I would argue that just insurance. On the other hand, most Canadians I know do not insure their boats unless required by the marina but that's just third party liability. Perhaps its as simple as a cultural difference. -- /ch