PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder)

PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder)

2 messages2009-05-16 08:39 UTCthrough 2009-05-16 15:01 UTC

PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder)

Gerald Sobel2009-05-16 08:39 UTC
dEmo, That no change of PHRF sounds nice, but a bit surprising, since it seems the new rudder would have less drag, else, why bother changing the shape? Would it be fair to Cal 40's racing with the old one (the inverted Sabre Jet tail)? Which brings me to my CB project. If I change the shape, don't I automatically get dinged three seconds? In my case, at least, I'm not racing against any other Cal 24s (no one else is racing old Cal 24s, at least not on the West Coast, and certainly not in So Cal), and, my pointing ability is abysmal. I'm constantly being out pointed by other boats by five to ten degrees. aaaAAARRRGHH. One person said if I don't change the area or depth the PHRF people wouldn't ding me, but the new rudder shows considerably more depth and more aspect ratio, plus, thinner cross section. Obviously, I can't change my cross section unless I don't want the CB to be retractable....for trailering purposes or, in my case, anchoring in the shallow lagoon at Cat Harbor...for free. Can you imagine me putting on a CB that's got minimal chord and maximal depth, while I'm at it, with a torpedo bulb, and horizontal whisker fins, like an America's cup boat? Interesting idea. I would look funny on my New England cat boat style hull, wouldn't it? Jerry --- On Fri, 5/15/09, ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: From: ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM PHRF stayed even, as it is the same surface area.. at least in so. cal, sf, and pacific northwest. I have heard other regions have gotten a hit.. but not on the West Coast. NO Transpac this year.. yipes, that hurts to say.. Cal Gal is getting refit for either a Vic Maui or Pacific Cup in 2010. A small tear will wander down my cheek as the Transpac starting gun sounds and my wallet inflates from all the money I saved pressing against my other cheeks.. From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:19 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) Cap'n dEmo, how did the new rudder affect you PHRF? If this new rudder had been used as a tail empanage on the F-86, instead of the inverted Cal 40 model, during the Korean "police action" of 1949-1953, would the Air Force have shot down more Mig 15s? Confused historians want to know. Is, or, R, you going to be at the Mariner's Village/Shorline Yacht Club, for the TransPac; anyone on the list going to be there (or be square)? I will be doing the Queen Mary feeder race in, in July, Neptune willing! We will be feeding the big big race, but not doing it, in me Cal 24 Olde. I got big plans to make it around the Death Cape, Palos Verdes, the ship wreck, buoy R10 without getting stuck in steep chop and becalmed and left in the wake of the fleet, like in all previous QM Races. I will be chanting sea shanties to Neptune and sprinkling libations, liberally, before we depart. If Eric, me trusty foist mate, has enough to drink, at the after the race party, at Shorline YC, he will be disinhibitted, up dancing wildly half passed midnite. A sight to behold to please the Sea Gods. Arrrghh! Oh yes, and another hearty ArrrgghhhHH! Jerry --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:43 AM Very similar to the rudder project that we did in 2000 for the Pacific Cup. In all, the Cal-List put together 25 rudders for the Cal 40 (& 36) at significant savings. If each of us did a one-off they would have been @$5,000 each. We sold the rudders on a production run for about $1,200 each. We left the plug and mold with Foss Foam and Doug Grant in southern California. This rudder, per my recollection, has been amalgamated as a Cal 40 class rudder. From the photos below you can see the difference between the stock barn door and the elliptical rudder. It's attack angles are improved and it is much thinner (requiring the bushing design below). My experience is that the new rudder is much easier to drive, and stalls considerably less. dEmO From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Michael McElhaney Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:50 AM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore Wow! That is unfortunate alright. I hope somebody had insurance. Where did he get the new stick, I wonder, and at what price? I notice she has a fancy racing rudder. Does it really make that much of a difference? She also has a different boom than original. Our Cal-40, Celtic Naut, still has the original boom with huge Merriman blocks. It's only 4:1 on the mainsheet and a bear to adjust in a blow. How is Belle Aurore's boom rigged? I think Fin's Radiant is rigged the same. It sure looks like a lot cleaner rig. My "to-do" list seems to have just gotten longer...

RE: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder)

ti… [at] ch2m.com2009-05-16 15:01 UTC
I guess it is the same as sails, shape does not matter, only the acreage. From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:39 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder) dEmo, That no change of PHRF sounds nice, but a bit surprising, since it seems the new rudder would have less drag, else, why bother changing the shape? Would it be fair to Cal 40's racing with the old one (the inverted Sabre Jet tail)? Which brings me to my CB project. If I change the shape, don't I automatically get dinged three seconds? In my case, at least, I'm not racing against any other Cal 24s (no one else is racing old Cal 24s, at least not on the West Coast, and certainly not in So Cal), and, my pointing ability is abysmal. I'm constantly being out pointed by other boats by five to ten degrees. aaaAAARRRGHH. One person said if I don't change the area or depth the PHRF people wouldn't ding me, but the new rudder shows considerably more depth and more aspect ratio, plus, thinner cross section. Obviously, I can't change my cross section unless I don't want the CB to be retractable....for trailering purposes or, in my case, anchoring in the shallow lagoon at Cat Harbor...for free. Can you imagine me putting on a CB that's got minimal chord and maximal depth, while I'm at it, with a torpedo bulb, and horizontal whisker fins, like an America's cup boat? Interesting idea. I would look funny on my New England cat boat style hull, wouldn't it? Jerry --- On Fri, 5/15/09, ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> wrote: From: ti… [at] ch2m.com <ti… [at] ch2m.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM PHRF stayed even, as it is the same surface area.. at least in so. cal, sf, and pacific northwest. I have heard other regions have gotten a hit.. but not on the West Coast. NO Transpac this year.. yipes, that hurts to say.. Cal Gal is getting refit for either a Vic Maui or Pacific Cup in 2010. A small tear will wander down my cheek as the Transpac starting gun sounds and my wallet inflates from all the money I saved pressing against my other cheeks.. From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:19 PM To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) Cap'n dEmo, how did the new rudder affect you PHRF? If this new rudder had been used as a tail empanage on the F-86, instead of the inverted Cal 40 model, during the Korean "police action" of 1949-1953, would the Air Force have shot down more Mig 15s? Confused historians want to know. Is, or, R, you going to be at the Mariner's Village/Shorline Yacht Club, for the TransPac; anyone on the list going to be there (or be square)? I will be doing the Queen Mary feeder race in, in July, Neptune willing! We will be feeding the big big race, but not doing it, in me Cal 24 Olde. I got big plans to make it around the Death Cape, Palos Verdes, the ship wreck, buoy R10 without getting stuck in steep chop and becalmed and left in the wake of the fleet, like in all previous QM Races. I will be chanting sea shanties to Neptune and sprinkling libations, liberally, before we depart. If Eric, me trusty foist mate, has enough to drink, at the after the race party, at Shorline YC, he will be disinhibitted, up dancing wildly half passed midnite. A sight to behold to please the Sea Gods. Arrrghh! Oh yes, and another hearty ArrrgghhhHH! Jerry --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> wrote: From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:43 AM Very similar to the rudder project that we did in 2000 for the Pacific Cup. In all, the Cal-List put together 25 rudders for the Cal 40 (& 36) at significant savings. If each of us did a one-off they would have been @$5,000 each. We sold the rudders on a production run for about $1,200 each. We left the plug and mold with Foss Foam and Doug Grant in southern California. This rudder, per my recollection, has been amalgamated as a Cal 40 class rudder.