Re: [Cal_Boats]Mike K., Long Races

Mike, If you want to do a 330 mile race, called the Chicago- Mackinac I can hook you up. David Dobbs --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Fun factor, PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 2:23 PM Jerry, I pretty much quit racing in the late 1980s for similar reasons. I told Ed Lorence at Watts Sails that I was going to do Transpac on a budget and he laughed. We were beating guys with five times the investment in the same size boat (I'm thinking of Shenandoah, the Kiwi 40 in Newport) but every year required retooling and new sails. I had kids starting college and I gave it up. I think a lot of people did the same and class racing has become far more popular as a result. Secondly, I liked the long races and they have pretty much gone away. Lots of professional sailors who want a nice dinner in a restaurant, a hot shower and a comfy bed. Anyway, the IOR was the beginning of a bad trend although the changes were probably inevitable. Just think, the Cal 40 was a high tech innovation back then. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On May 16, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > Capt'n dEmo, > Size matters? That's not the whole story. We know that shape and > aspect ratio matter nearly as much as area does. It's why racers are > willing to shell out boat bucks for the latest high tech gear. > > Maybe sail boat racing is dying out because participants can no > longer afford to equip their boats well enuff to be competitive. I > am finding this to be true, even in our cruising level racing, I'm > competing against a boat with an owner who, for example, gets the > most out of the minus six second laminate sail deduction by flying a > brand new 3DL North sail, after finding that last years new Norlam > just isn't good enuff (he tried to pan it off as a dacron sail). The > guy isn't happy unless he is winning every race! And he doesn't even > need the bells and whistles, he's an outstanding sailor with a smart > well practiced steady crew. > > Meanwhile, my enthusiatic first mate keeps asking me if we should > pole out the jib, when we're going up wind, and is more concerned > with waving hello to the crews on the other boats than getting the > sails trimmed as we approach the starting line, in traffic, in the > last seconds of the count down to the gun. I don't know. Who has the > right idea? I'm beginning to wonder. > > Last night we took out two newbies, who have a boat on our dock but > who've never sailed it (a budget dock queen) and copped last place > (the race committe boogied before the race deadline and no one was > around to take our finish time (we drifted in with two minutes and > 49 seconds to spare), and at the YC, denied that they did it! ...and > I double checked, my watch was correctly set. We're talking about a > race that took less than two hours, with the wind dying after > sunset, and a finish line on a dock inside the marina. If I had to > do it over, I wouldn't change a thing. We had way more fun doing it > our way. > > Jerry > > Jerry > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com > > wrote: > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: > [Cal_Boat(Rudder) > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 8:01 AM > > > I guess it is the same as sails, shape does not matter, only the > acreage. > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:39 AM > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: > [Cal_Boat(Rudder) > > dEmo, > That no change of PHRF sounds nice, but a bit surprising, since it > seems the new rudder would have less drag, else, why bother changing > the shape? Would it be fair to Cal 40's racing with the old one (the > inverted Sabre Jet tail)? > > Which brings me to my CB project. If I change the shape, don't I > automatically get dinged three seconds? In my case, at least, I'm > not racing against any other Cal 24s (no one else is racing old Cal > 24s, at least not on the West Coast, and certainly not in So Cal), > and, my pointing ability is abysmal. I'm constantly being out > pointed by other boats by five to ten degrees. aaaAAARRRGHH. One > person said if I don't change the area or depth the PHRF people > wouldn't ding me, but the new rudder shows considerably more depth > and more aspect ratio, plus, thinner cross section. Obviously, I > can't change my cross section unless I don't want the CB to be > retractable. ...for trailering purposes or, in my case, anchoring in > the shallow lagoon at Cat Harbor...for free. > > Can you imagine me putting on a CB that's got minimal chord and > maximal depth, while I'm at it, with a torpedo bulb, and horizontal > whisker fins, like an America's cup boat? Interesting idea. I would > look funny on my New England cat boat style hull, wouldn't it? > Jerry > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ > ch2m.com> wrote: > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 > Belle Aurore (Rudder) > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM > > > PHRF stayed even, as it is the same surface area.. at least in so. > cal, sf, and pacific northwest. > > I have heard other regions have gotten a hit.. but not on the West > Coast. > > NO Transpac this year.. yipes, that hurts to say.. > > Cal Gal is getting refit for either a Vic Maui or Pacific Cup in 2010. > > A small tear will wander down my cheek as the Transpac starting gun > sounds and my wallet inflates from all the money I saved pressing > against my other cheeks.. > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:19 PM > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 > Belle Aurore (Rudder) > > Cap'n dEmo, how did the new rudder affect you PHRF? If this new > rudder had been used as a tail empanage on the F-86, instead of the > inverted Cal 40 model, during the Korean "police action" of > 1949-1953, would the Air Force have shot down more Mig 15s? Confused > historians want to know. > > Is, or, R, you going to be at the Mariner's Village/Shorline Yacht > Club, for the TransPac; anyone on the list going to be there (or be > square)? > > I will be doing the Queen Mary feeder race in, in July, Neptune > willing! We will be feeding the big big race, but not doing it, in > me Cal 24 Olde. I got big plans to make it around the Death Cape, > Palos Verdes, the ship wreck, buoy R10 without getting stuck in > steep chop and becalmed and left in the wake of the fleet, like in > all previous QM Races. I will be chanting sea shanties to Neptune > and sprinkling libations, liberally, before we depart. > > If Eric, me trusty foist mate, has enough to drink, at the after > the race party, at Shorline YC, he will be disinhibitted, up dancing > wildly half passed midnite. A sight to behold to please the Sea > Gods. Arrrghh! > > Oh yes, and another hearty ArrrgghhhHH! > Jerry > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ > ch2m.com> wrote: > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:43 AM > > > Very similar to the rudder project that we did in 2000 for the > Pacific Cup. > > In all, the Cal-List put together 25 rudders for the Cal 40 (& 36) > at significant savings. If each of us did a one-off they would have > been @$5,000 each. > > We sold the rudders on a production run for about $1,200 each. > > We left the plug and mold with Foss Foam and Doug Grant in southern > California. > > This rudder, per my recollection, has been amalgamated as a Cal 40 > class rudder. > > From the photos below you can see the difference between the stock > barn door and the elliptical rudder. It's attack angles are improved > and it is much thinner (requiring the bushing design below). > > My experience is that the new rudder is much easier to drive, and > stalls considerably less. > > dEmO > > <att3d79.jpg> > > <att6778.jpg> > > <att9b6a.jpg> > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > s.com] On Behalf Of Michael McElhaney > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:50 AM > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore > > Wow! That is unfortunate alright. I hope somebody had insurance. > Where did he get the new stick, I wonder, and at what price? > I notice she has a fancy racing rudder. Does it really make that > much of a difference? > She also has a different boom than original. Our Cal-40, Celtic > Naut, still has the original boom with huge Merriman blocks. It's > only 4:1 on the mainsheet and a bear to adjust in a blow. How is > Belle Aurore's boom rigged? I think Fin's Radiant is rigged the > same. It sure looks like a lot cleaner rig. > My "to-do" list seems to have just gotten longer... > > >

I did the Port Huron to Mac race in 1978. I would enjoy it but am no longer much help. Still, I would be game if asked. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 Mike Jr has done a couple of Chicago-Mac races. On May 17, 2009, at 7:13 PM, david dobbs wrote: > > > > Mike, > If you want to do a 330 mile race, called the Chicago- Mackinac I > can hook you up. > > David Dobbs > > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats]Fun factor, PHRF rating, empenage mods, was > RE: [Cal_Boat(Rudder) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 2:23 PM > > Jerry, I pretty much quit racing in the late 1980s for similar > reasons. I told Ed Lorence at Watts Sails that I was going to do > Transpac on a budget and he laughed. We were beating guys with five > times the investment in the same size boat (I'm thinking of > Shenandoah, the Kiwi 40 in Newport) but every year required retooling > and new sails. I had kids starting college and I gave it up. I think a > lot of people did the same and class racing has become far more > popular as a result. > > Secondly, I liked the long races and they have pretty much gone away. > Lots of professional sailors who want a nice dinner in a restaurant, a > hot shower and a comfy bed. > > Anyway, the IOR was the beginning of a bad trend although the changes > were probably inevitable. Just think, the Cal 40 was a high tech > innovation back then. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > On May 16, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Gerald Sobel wrote: > > > Capt'n dEmo, > > Size matters? That's not the whole story. We know that shape and > > aspect ratio matter nearly as much as area does. It's why racers are > > willing to shell out boat bucks for the latest high tech gear. > > > > Maybe sail boat racing is dying out because participants can no > > longer afford to equip their boats well enuff to be competitive. I > > am finding this to be true, even in our cruising level racing, I'm > > competing against a boat with an owner who, for example, gets the > > most out of the minus six second laminate sail deduction by flying a > > brand new 3DL North sail, after finding that last years new Norlam > > just isn't good enuff (he tried to pan it off as a dacron sail). The > > guy isn't happy unless he is winning every race! And he doesn't even > > need the bells and whistles, he's an outstanding sailor with a smart > > well practiced steady crew. > > > > Meanwhile, my enthusiatic first mate keeps asking me if we should > > pole out the jib, when we're going up wind, and is more concerned > > with waving hello to the crews on the other boats than getting the > > sails trimmed as we approach the starting line, in traffic, in the > > last seconds of the count down to the gun. I don't know. Who has the > > right idea? I'm beginning to wonder. > > > > Last night we took out two newbies, who have a boat on our dock but > > who've never sailed it (a budget dock queen) and copped last place > > (the race committe boogied before the race deadline and no one was > > around to take our finish time (we drifted in with two minutes and > > 49 seconds to spare), and at the YC, denied that they did it! ...and > > I double checked, my watch was correctly set. We're talking about a > > race that took less than two hours, with the wind dying after > > sunset, and a finish line on a dock inside the marina. If I had to > > do it over, I wouldn't change a thing. We had way more fun doing it > > our way. > > > > Jerry > > > > Jerry > > > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ > ch2m.com > > > wrote: > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: > > [Cal_Boat(Rudder) > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 8:01 AM > > > > > > I guess it is the same as sails, shape does not matter, only the > > acreage. > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > > s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel > > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:39 AM > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] PHRF rating, empenage mods, was RE: > > [Cal_Boat(Rudder) > > > > dEmo, > > That no change of PHRF sounds nice, but a bit surprising, since it > > seems the new rudder would have less drag, else, why bother changing > > the shape? Would it be fair to Cal 40's racing with the old one (the > > inverted Sabre Jet tail)? > > > > Which brings me to my CB project. If I change the shape, don't I > > automatically get dinged three seconds? In my case, at least, I'm > > not racing against any other Cal 24s (no one else is racing old Cal > > 24s, at least not on the West Coast, and certainly not in So Cal), > > and, my pointing ability is abysmal. I'm constantly being out > > pointed by other boats by five to ten degrees. aaaAAARRRGHH. One > > person said if I don't change the area or depth the PHRF people > > wouldn't ding me, but the new rudder shows considerably more depth > > and more aspect ratio, plus, thinner cross section. Obviously, I > > can't change my cross section unless I don't want the CB to be > > retractable. ...for trailering purposes or, in my case, anchoring in > > the shallow lagoon at Cat Harbor...for free. > > > > Can you imagine me putting on a CB that's got minimal chord and > > maximal depth, while I'm at it, with a torpedo bulb, and horizontal > > whisker fins, like an America's cup boat? Interesting idea. I would > > look funny on my New England cat boat style hull, wouldn't it? > > Jerry > > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ > > ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 > > Belle Aurore (Rudder) > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM > > > > > > PHRF stayed even, as it is the same surface area.. at least in so. > > cal, sf, and pacific northwest. > > > > I have heard other regions have gotten a hit.. but not on the West > > Coast. > > > > NO Transpac this year.. yipes, that hurts to say.. > > > > Cal Gal is getting refit for either a Vic Maui or Pacific Cup in > 2010. > > > > A small tear will wander down my cheek as the Transpac starting gun > > sounds and my wallet inflates from all the money I saved pressing > > against my other cheeks.. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > > s.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Sobel > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:19 PM > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats]QM Race feeder to Trans Pac, was:The Cal 40 > > Belle Aurore (Rudder) > > > > Cap'n dEmo, how did the new rudder affect you PHRF? If this new > > rudder had been used as a tail empanage on the F-86, instead of the > > inverted Cal 40 model, during the Korean "police action" of > > 1949-1953, would the Air Force have shot down more Mig 15s? Confused > > historians want to know. > > > > Is, or, R, you going to be at the Mariner's Village/Shorline Yacht > > Club, for the TransPac; anyone on the list going to be there (or be > > square)? > > > > I will be doing the Queen Mary feeder race in, in July, Neptune > > willing! We will be feeding the big big race, but not doing it, in > > me Cal 24 Olde. I got big plans to make it around the Death Cape, > > Palos Verdes, the ship wreck, buoy R10 without getting stuck in > > steep chop and becalmed and left in the wake of the fleet, like in > > all previous QM Races. I will be chanting sea shanties to Neptune > > and sprinkling libations, liberally, before we depart. > > > > If Eric, me trusty foist mate, has enough to drink, at the after > > the race party, at Shorline YC, he will be disinhibitted, up dancing > > wildly half passed midnite. A sight to behold to please the Sea > > Gods. Arrrghh! > > > > Oh yes, and another hearty ArrrgghhhHH! > > Jerry > > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ > > ch2m.com> wrote: > > > > From: timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com <timmothy.lessley@ ch2m.com> > > Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore (Rudder) > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:43 AM > > > > > > Very similar to the rudder project that we did in 2000 for the > > Pacific Cup. > > > > In all, the Cal-List put together 25 rudders for the Cal 40 (& 36) > > at significant savings. If each of us did a one-off they would have > > been @$5,000 each. > > > > We sold the rudders on a production run for about $1,200 each. > > > > We left the plug and mold with Foss Foam and Doug Grant in southern > > California. > > > > This rudder, per my recollection, has been amalgamated as a Cal 40 > > class rudder. > > > > From the photos below you can see the difference between the stock > > barn door and the elliptical rudder. It's attack angles are improved > > and it is much thinner (requiring the bushing design below). > > > > My experience is that the new rudder is much easier to drive, and > > stalls considerably less. > > > > dEmO > > > > <att3d79.jpg> > > > > <att6778.jpg> > > > > <att9b6a.jpg> > > > > > > > > From: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Cal_ Boats@yahoogroup > > s.com] On Behalf Of Michael McElhaney > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:50 AM > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] The Cal 40 Belle Aurore > > > > Wow! That is unfortunate alright. I hope somebody had insurance. > > Where did he get the new stick, I wonder, and at what price? > > I notice she has a fancy racing rudder. Does it really make that > > much of a difference? > > She also has a different boom than original. Our Cal-40, Celtic > > Naut, still has the original boom with huge Merriman blocks. It's > > only 4:1 on the mainsheet and a bear to adjust in a blow. How is > > Belle Aurore's boom rigged? I think Fin's Radiant is rigged the > > same. It sure looks like a lot cleaner rig. > > My "to-do" list seems to have just gotten longer... > > > > > > > > > >