Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling & Sail Changes

If you have a double track head stay you can change out headsails w/o losing any time. Also if you are luffing your main you can reef w/o losing much time since it is not doing much pulling anyway. Granted you need good experienced crew for both maneuvers but it can be done effectively. On our CS 30 we had to sail with 15 degrees or less of heel so we didn't have the luxury of accepting all that heeling over w/o putting the brakes on. We also had a Harken roller furler with a removable drum and a dual track headstay so that we could race with deck sweepers and cruise with a roller furler. I intend to get the same system for our Cal 39. Paul West Adventure Kwest Cal 39 ('80 Lapworth design) In a message dated 8/16/2009 10:16:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: When just sailing, not racing, I reef if possible and almost always sail with a 90. Even then there is sometimes more wind than I would like and sometimes I get in a situation where I am not reefed and want to just sail through it. I bubble the main, it isn't flogging so it isn't hard on the sail. I could not do this with my old main so this may not work for everyone. Rather than flog, I change course and go somewhere that isn't as windy. Just getting off the wind a little helps as well. Afterall, if I am not racing, I don't have anywhere I need to get in a hurry. Now, in a race, if you take the time to reef, you get passed. If you want to change sails, you finish last. You make a decision and stick with it no matter what happens pretty much. We race without spinnakers so there really isn't a chance to change sails and in a 3 hour race things can change. The guy who is the fastest actually says he lets the main flog and that it is hard on the sail. I don't like to do that but I have verified that it is fast. He always sails with a 155, never reefed. I should point out that there are a lot of reaching legs in our races. I know he has a kevlar 90 with an inboard track that he uses in races where he uses a spinnaker that are beat-run type courses. He is a very good sailor and almost always wins. I beat him in the Jessica Cup one year 2 races to 1. Last year he beat me 2 to 1 with the last race being a 6 inches margin. He also won the big boat series (national championship) on an Express 37 so the guy is really good. He is the one who told me about the bubble, the flogging, and all this. We observed that he kept the heel to about 25 degrees so that is our new goal (was 30%). He is also responsible <WBR>for getting the handicap of an L-36 to 150 here in San Franci It is higher everywhere else. Allen On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Donald Dutton <_d… [at] sbcglobal.dnl_ (mailto:dn… [at] sbcglobal.net) > wrote: Scott, When I say I "dump" the main it is never to the point that the sail will flog -- that would be very hard on both the sail and the boat's rig and, as someone else pointed out, would slow the boat significantly. I dump the main enough to let it luff on the current heading, sometimes for as much as half the sail, but the leach of the main is always still drawing and powering the boat. The luff of the main is depowered and "bubbled", not flogging! Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: scott <_s… [at] yahoo.ssc_ (mailto:ss… [at] yahoo.com) > To: _Cal_Boats@yahoogrouCal_Bo_ (mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:46:19 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling (was Reefing, et al.) Hello Cal boaters Here on SF bay where winds reach 30mi And more I plan to reef instead of flogging a 1500 dollar main sail also reefing keeps the boat on the right heel angle angle decrease the rudder angle less drag some combos of sails I have 25-30knots wind 150% and fist reef (note the high speed increases load on that big headsail) 110% with full main or first reef to 25-30 and second reef after 30knts and thats when the rig is howling a song. A 120-130 % is also a good to mix and match Now if racing and the crew weight may consider the large headsail and the the first reef again NOTE AS THE WIND GAINS SPEED ITS MORE LOAD ON THE SAILS AND RIGGING I cruise mostly now and when I race a fun beer its not to win. Scott 2-29 Coyote PT San Mateo CA

I wondered about reefing as you say but all I know when my competitors reef, I pass them so I haven't done it in a race. Also, just because we bubble the main in the puffs, does't mean it isn't pulling in the lulls. The trimmer is constantly playing the mainsheet. His goal is keeping the boat heal at target. I hank on the jib so changing sails is not a good idea. Sounds like you have a nice setup with that removable drum. What I am experimenting with is a free flying 150 with a wire luff so that I can run a smaller sail, 130 or even the 90, and put this free flying sail up for the run and perhaps the reach. Then I could switch sails on deck and hoist a different sail for the next leg. Allen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:38 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > If you have a double track head stay you can change out headsails w/o > losing any time. Also if you are luffing your main you can reef w/o losing > much time since it is not doing much pulling anyway. Granted you need good > experienced crew for both maneuvers but it can be done effectively. > > On our CS 30 we had to sail with 15 degrees or less of heel so we didn't > have the luxury of accepting all that heeling over w/o putting the brakes > on. We also had a Harken roller furler with a removable drum and a dual > track headstay so that we could race with deck sweepers and cruise with a > roller furler. I intend to get the same system for our Cal 39. > > Paul West > Adventure Kwest > Cal 39 ('80 Lapworth design) > > In a message dated 8/16/2009 10:16:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: > > > > When just sailing, not racing, I reef if possible and almost always sail > with a 90. Even then there is sometimes more wind than I would like and > sometimes I get in a situation where I am not reefed and want to just sail > through it. I bubble the main, it isn't flogging so it isn't hard on the > sail. I could not do this with my old main so this may not work for > everyone. Rather than flog, I change course and go somewhere that isn't as > windy. Just getting off the wind a little helps as well. Afterall, if I am > not racing, I don't have anywhere I need to get in a hurry. > > Now, in a race, if you take the time to reef, you get passed. If you want > to change sails, you finish last. You make a decision and stick with it no > matter what happens pretty much. We race without spinnakers so there really > isn't a chance to change sails and in a 3 hour race things can change. The > guy who is the fastest actually says he lets the main flog and that it is > hard on the sail. I don't like to do that but I have verified that it is > fast. He always sails with a 155, never reefed. I should point out that > there are a lot of reaching legs in our races. I know he has a kevlar 90 > with an inboard track that he uses in races where he uses a spinnaker that > are beat-run type courses. He is a very good sailor and almost always wins. > I beat him in the Jessica Cup one year 2 races to 1. Last year he beat me > 2 to 1 with the last race being a 6 inches margin. He also won the big boat > series (national championship) on an Express 37 so the guy is really good. > He is the one who told me about the bubble, the flogging, and all this. We > observed that he kept the heel to about 25 degrees so that is our new goal > (was 30%). He is also responsible for getting the handicap of an L-36 to > 150 here in San Francisco. It is higher everywhere else. > > Allen > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > >> >> >> Scott, >> >> When I say I "dump" the main it is never to the point that the sail will >> flog -- that would be very hard on both the sail and the boat's rig and, as >> someone else pointed out, would slow the boat significantly. I dump the >> main enough to let it luff on the current heading, sometimes for as much as >> half the sail, but the leach of the main is always still drawing and >> powering the boat. The luff of the main is depowered and "bubbled", not >> flogging! >> >> Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" >> >> "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you >> didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail >> away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. >> Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* scott <ss… [at] yahoo.com> >> *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2009 6:46:19 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling (was Reefing, et al.) >> >> >> >> Hello >> Cal boaters >> >> Here on SF bay where winds reach 30mi And more I plan to reef instead of >> flogging >> a 1500 dollar main sail also reefing keeps the boat on the right heel >> angle angle decrease >> the rudder angle less drag >> some combos of sails I have >> >> 25-30knots wind 150% and fist reef (note the high speed increases load on >> that big headsail) >> >> 110% with full main or first reef to 25-30 and second reef after 30knts >> and thats >> when the rig is howling a song. >> >> A 120-130 % is also a good to mix and match >> >> Now if racing and the crew weight may consider the large headsail and the >> the first reef >> again >> >> NOTE AS THE WIND GAINS SPEED ITS MORE LOAD ON THE SAILS AND RIGGING >> >> I cruise mostly now and when I race a fun beer its not to win. >> >> Scott >> 2-29 >> Coyote PT San Mateo CA >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > >

I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us say you are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. Say the wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. What is the best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the high. In other words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog half the time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and underpowered half the time? One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in each mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail plan for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. I don't know the answer. I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. The sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I get the best sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer above? Allen

In a race its almost always better to have too much sail as you can always ease or luff the sails in high wind but you can't add more sail area in light air. Underpowered is never good. Your ability to point is huge and I presume with the tighter sheeting angle it improves your pointing by nothing less than 5 degrees and probably a lot more. Do the geometry on what 5 degrees gives you in a 1/2 mile and you'll be amazed at how much closer you'd be to the mark. In regard to your last point re: passing people who are reefing if you practice it you can do it in less than 30 seconds. I've even seen it done during a tack. Paul In a message dated 8/16/2009 2:59:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us say you are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. Say the wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. What is the best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the high. In other words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog half the time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and underpowered half the time? One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in each mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail plan for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. I don't know the answer. I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. The sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I get the best sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer above? 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So, we want good pointing. Well, that is exactly how I lost the last Master Mariners race. I was faster on all the legs except the second and got out pointed using a 130 and not flogging to my competitor using a 155 with main flogging and beating itself to death. That brings me to another question. I bought this 130 specifically for racing on the advice of two sail makers. Now I am wondering if it is any good. I read a comment somewhere on the web that a 130 is useless with a single spreader rail fastened rig like mine. The sheeting angle just isn't very good. When I first got it, it would hang up on the spreader. I looked up and said that for those 3 inches of sail, I was having to keep the sail outside the spreader and could not sheet in very tight. I had it recut so it clears the spreader and it comes in another 6 to 12 inches compared to the pre recut. But it still doesn't have a good sheeting angle compared to the 155. Like I say to me crew, I used to race with a 90 and always got passed on the downwind let (leg 3). Now I race with a 130 and am faster than he is on the downwind leg (my whisker pole is longer) but he passed me on the second leg and I can't catch him. Does anyone have an opinion about a 130 on a single spreader rig or are all your boats double spreaders with inside tracks? Lapworth made improvements I know when he went to the cal boats and I know they improved over the years. Allen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > In a race its almost always better to have too much sail as you can > always ease or luff the sails in high wind but you can't add more sail area > in light air. Underpowered is never good. > > > Your ability to point is huge and I presume with the tighter sheeting angle > it improves your pointing by nothing less than 5 degrees and probably a lot > more. Do the geometry on what 5 degrees gives you in a 1/2 mile and you'll > be amazed at how much closer you'd be to the mark. > > In regard to your last point re: passing people who are reefing if you > practice it you can do it in less than 30 seconds. I've even seen it done > during a tack. > > Paul > > > > In a message dated 8/16/2009 2:59:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: > > > > I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us say you > are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. Say the > wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. What is the > best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the high. In other > words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog half the > time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and underpowered half the > time? > > One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in each > mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it better > to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail plan > for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. > > I don't know the answer. > > I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. The > sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I get the best > sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer above? > > Allen > > Messages in this topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/message/17150;_ylc=X3oDMTM3cDFyM3ZiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRtc2dJZAMxNzE1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjIEdHBjSWQDMTcxNTA-> > (3) Reply (via web post) > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydDZmcHZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRtc2dJZAMxNzE1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjI-?act=reply&messageNum=17152>| > Start a new topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGpoZ2oyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjI-> > > . > > __0.0.010265.15809R:002e52b0 E:3090.1581735415 V: > > >

Allen, To your first paragraph: As Paul West pointed out in the email before this, had the competitor with the 155 taken the time (or had the time!) to train his crew, he would have had them reef the main during that leg and sheet it in so it did not flog during the leg and would have been faster still. That is one of the main tools of racing -- to see what works best, try it, and do it even better than your competitor the next time. If a competitor beats you, try to see what they are doing and accomplish it. Racing also makes you a better cruiser since you become adept at handling tight situations and making your boat perform under stress. Reefing on the windward leg may be difficult if not practiced, but it is very easy to shake the reef out of the main before the downwind leg. I usually have someone at the mast when rounding the windward mark ready to release the reef just as the mainsheet is being let out. It is very fast. As to the rig questions and other Cal boats, I'll leave that answer to others. Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:28:06 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling & Sail Changes So, we want good pointing. Well, that is exactly how I lost the last Master Mariners race. I was faster on all the legs except the second and got out pointed using a 130 and not flogging to my competitor using a 155 with main flogging and beating itself to death. That brings me to another question. I bought this 130 specifically for racing on the advice of two sail makers. Now I am wondering if it is any good. I read a comment somewhere on the web that a 130 is useless with a single spreader rail fastened rig like mine. The sheeting angle just isn't very good. When I first got it, it would hang up on the spreader. I looked up and said that for those 3 inches of sail, I was having to keep the sail outside the spreader and could not sheet in very tight. I had it recut so it clears the spreader and it comes in another 6 to 12 inches compared to the pre recut. But it still doesn't have a good sheeting angle compared to the 155. Like I say to me crew, I used to race with a 90 and always got passed on the downwind let (leg 3). Now I race with a 130 and am faster than he is on the downwind leg (my whisker pole is longer) but he passed me on the second leg and I can't catch him. Does anyone have an opinion about a 130 on a single spreader rig or are all your boats double spreaders with inside tracks? Lapworth made improvements I know when he went to the cal boats and I know they improved over the years. Allen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM, <pwestla@aol. com> wrote: > >In a race its almost always better to have too much sail as you can always >ease or luff the sails in high wind but you can't add more sail area in light >air. Underpowered is never good. > > >Your ability to point is huge and I presume with the tighter sheeting angle >it improves your pointing by nothing less than 5 degrees and probably a lot >more. Do the geometry on what 5 degrees gives you in a 1/2 mile and you'll >be amazed at how much closer you'd be to the mark. > >In regard to your last point re: passing people who are reefing if you >practice it you can do it in less than 30 seconds. I've even seen it done >during a tack. > >Paul > > > >In a message dated 8/16/2009 2:59:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com writes: > >>I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us >> say you are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. >> Say the wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. >> What is the best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the >> high. In other words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble >> and flog half the time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and >> underpowered half the time? >> >> >> >>One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in >> each mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it >> better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail >> plan for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. >> >> >>I don't know the answer. >> >> >>I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. >> The sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I >> get the best sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer >> above? >> >> >> >>Allen >>Messages >> in this topic (3) >> Reply (via web post) | Start >> a new topic >. > >__0.0.010265. 15809R:002e52b0 E:3090.1581735415 V: >

As I think I said in a previous email, my competitor won the nationals in the big boat series and has a very experienced crew. His 7 man young and experienced crew could certainly have reefed if they wanted to. He never reefs as far as I can tell. Also, as Paul pointed out, it is better to be overpowered than under powered so it is difficult for me to criticize his strategy as awkward as it looks, which he admits. He also carried a 150 handicap on an L-36, same as a Cal-33 and not far off a Cal-36, which is 144. I always feel like he knows what he is doing and try and learn from it. For the last few years I have tried to outsmart him by using a 130 which is not as overpowered. Hasn't worked. This last year I put up the 130 instead of the 155 because we had gail force winds in the forecast. He used the 155. I was faster on most legs but got out pointed and lost too much on one leg to catch him on the remaining ones. I have practiced pointing higher and am much better at it with the technique I have discussed in these emails so we shall see. The question remains open about the merits of a 130 on a single spreader rig. Allen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Donald Dutton <dn… [at] sbcglobal.net>wrote: > > > Allen, > > To your first paragraph: As Paul West pointed out in the email before > this, had the competitor with the 155 taken the time (or had the time!) to > train his crew, he would have had them reef the main during that leg and > sheet it in so it did not flog during the leg and would have been faster > still. That is one of the main tools of racing -- to see what works best, > try it, and do it even better than your competitor the next time. If a > competitor beats you, try to see what they are doing and accomplish it. > Racing also makes you a better cruiser since you become adept at handling > tight situations and making your boat perform under stress. > > Reefing on the windward leg may be difficult if not practiced, but it is > very easy to shake the reef out of the main before the downwind leg. I > usually have someone at the mast when rounding the windward mark ready to > release the reef just as the mainsheet is being let out. It is very fast. > > As to the rig questions and other Cal boats, I'll leave that answer to > others. > > Donald Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" > > "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you > didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail > away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. > Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:28:06 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling & Sail Changes > > > > So, we want good pointing. Well, that is exactly how I lost the last > Master Mariners race. I was faster on all the legs except the second and > got out pointed using a 130 and not flogging to my competitor using a 155 > with main flogging and beating itself to death. > > That brings me to another question. I bought this 130 specifically for > racing on the advice of two sail makers. Now I am wondering if it is any > good. I read a comment somewhere on the web that a 130 is useless with a > single spreader rail fastened rig like mine. The sheeting angle just isn't > very good. When I first got it, it would hang up on the spreader. I looked > up and said that for those 3 inches of sail, I was having to keep the sail > outside the spreader and could not sheet in very tight. I had it recut so > it clears the spreader and it comes in another 6 to 12 inches compared to > the pre recut. But it still doesn't have a good sheeting angle compared to > the 155. > > Like I say to me crew, I used to race with a 90 and always got passed on > the downwind let (leg 3). Now I race with a 130 and am faster than he is on > the downwind leg (my whisker pole is longer) but he passed me on the second > leg and I can't catch him. > > Does anyone have an opinion about a 130 on a single spreader rig or are all > your boats double spreaders with inside tracks? Lapworth made improvements > I know when he went to the cal boats and I know they improved over the > years. > > Allen > > On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM, <pwestla@aol. com <pw… [at] aol.com>>wrote: > >> >> >> In a race its almost always better to have too much sail as you can >> always ease or luff the sails in high wind but you can't add more sail area >> in light air. Underpowered is never good. >> >> >> Your ability to point is huge and I presume with the tighter sheeting >> angle it improves your pointing by nothing less than 5 degrees and probably >> a lot more. Do the geometry on what 5 degrees gives you in a 1/2 mile and >> you'll be amazed at how much closer you'd be to the mark. >> >> In regard to your last point re: passing people who are reefing if you >> practice it you can do it in less than 30 seconds. I've even seen it done >> during a tack. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> In a message dated 8/16/2009 2:59:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com writes: >> >> >> >> I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us say >> you are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. Say >> the wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. What is >> the best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the high. In other >> words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog half the >> time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and underpowered half the >> time? >> >> One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in >> each mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it >> better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail >> plan for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. >> >> I don't know the answer. >> >> I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. The >> sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I get the best >> sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer above? >> >> Allen >> >> Messages in this topic >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/message/17150;_ylc=X3oDMTM3cDFyM3ZiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRtc2dJZAMxNzE1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjIEdHBjSWQDMTcxNTA-> >> (3) Reply (via web post) >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydDZmcHZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRtc2dJZAMxNzE1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjI-?act=reply&messageNum=17152>| >> Start a new topic >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cal_Boats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGpoZ2oyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNTA0NDkxNjI-> >> >> . >> >> __0.0.010265. 15809R:002e52b0 E:3090.1581735415 V: >> >> > >

As I recall, for our T/2, single spreader masthead rig, The local sailmaker, Phil Healy of Taylor Sailmakers, said a blade would help us point higher upwind but not by a lot, and we would lose downwind unless we flew the spinnaker. He recommended against any intermediate sails as a compromise. He said a 150 would be almost as good as the blade upwind and way better downwind, and that it would be the preferred foresail if sailing white sails only. He built us a butt kicking 150 hank on. We tired of roling and bagging it, which was akin to stuffing a 19' sausage into a wrapper, so we purchased a Harken roller furler and had him re-cut the genoa to fit. It is still a butt kicker. We're in first place in our Friday night series and second in our Tuesday night series so far. He said larger than 150 (we have 2 170's) was a waste. Impossible to keep the airflow attached that far. It seems the old CALs were designed for the 150ish sail. Reggie CAL 27 T/2 "Knot Ready" To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:28:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Heeling & Sail Changes So, we want good pointing. Well, that is exactly how I lost the last Master Mariners race. I was faster on all the legs except the second and got out pointed using a 130 and not flogging to my competitor using a 155 with main flogging and beating itself to death. That brings me to another question. I bought this 130 specifically for racing on the advice of two sail makers. Now I am wondering if it is any good. I read a comment somewhere on the web that a 130 is useless with a single spreader rail fastened rig like mine. The sheeting angle just isn't very good. When I first got it, it would hang up on the spreader. I looked up and said that for those 3 inches of sail, I was having to keep the sail outside the spreader and could not sheet in very tight. I had it recut so it clears the spreader and it comes in another 6 to 12 inches compared to the pre recut. But it still doesn't have a good sheeting angle compared to the 155. Like I say to me crew, I used to race with a 90 and always got passed on the downwind let (leg 3). Now I race with a 130 and am faster than he is on the downwind leg (my whisker pole is longer) but he passed me on the second leg and I can't catch him. Does anyone have an opinion about a 130 on a single spreader rig or are all your boats double spreaders with inside tracks? Lapworth made improvements I know when he went to the cal boats and I know they improved over the years. Allen On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: In a race its almost always better to have too much sail as you can always ease or luff the sails in high wind but you can't add more sail area in light air. Underpowered is never good. Your ability to point is huge and I presume with the tighter sheeting angle it improves your pointing by nothing less than 5 degrees and probably a lot more. Do the geometry on what 5 degrees gives you in a 1/2 mile and you'll be amazed at how much closer you'd be to the mark. In regard to your last point re: passing people who are reefing if you practice it you can do it in less than 30 seconds. I've even seen it done during a tack. Paul In a message dated 8/16/2009 2:59:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: I have a question related to this discussion for the group. Let us say you are faced not with a given set of conditions, but a changing set. Say the wind is alternating between two states, call them high and low. What is the best set of sails to use, one for the low or one for the high. In other words, is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog half the time, or be perfect in the high wind condition and underpowered half the time? One obvious point is that it depends on the percentage that you are in each mode so I guess the best reply is at what percent of the time is it better to be overpowered and have to bubble and flog rather than have a sail plan for the high conditions and suffer being underpowered. I don't know the answer. I have a second related question. I have 3 headsails, 90, 130, 155. The sails all tack to the rail because of the rig. Therefore, I get the best sheeting angle using the 155. Does that change the answer above? Allen Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic . __0.0.010265.15809R:002e52b0 E:3090.1581735415 V: