Racing with whisker poles

Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. Allen

Allen, Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller sail perhaps. We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech to do this. We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 Jerry --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. Allen

whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you describe. using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. Allen

We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in the butt to rig the after-guy. The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not have won. Pole was much longer than J. I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing or practicing for a race. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you > describe. > > using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is > the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must > be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. > > Reggie > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers > like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I > am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind > and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in > other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down > after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use > an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything > seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We > have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong > winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for > racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as > helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information > on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually > nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am > happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested > in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. > Allen > > > > >

Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we used a 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has something to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff and the luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes fullness in the poled out luff. You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Allen, > Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure > what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller > sail perhaps. > > We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, > but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a > leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to > reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech > to do this. > > We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we > round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being > it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails > flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? > > Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 > > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM > > > > Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like > I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am > left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and > go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other > words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after > the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an > after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything > seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We > have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong > winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for > racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as > helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information > on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually > nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am > happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested > in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. > > Allen > > > >

Allen, I use a pin type whisker pole. We use the lazy sheet, looped over the forward mooring cleat, and pulled tite, as a foreguy to maintain tightness on the leech. Remember, I've only got a 24' sailboat with 8.5' between bow and mast, which of course makes sail handling less stressful. I also have another, shorter whisker pole (the Hurricane Gulch shortened it years ago, it got bent in half so we ended up cutting off the bent end) that has a snap hook, which we attach to the sheet behind the clew. We have a problem with the whisker pole working its way, slideing aft along the working sheet. Come to think of it, it we attached a small line and looped it over the cleat, maybe even with a length of bungee cord (since we need to play the whisker pole fore and aft) it could prevent that whisker pole from doing it. Come to think of it, my sailmaker put in battens to cure my hooked leech problem, after that, the sail wouldn't work as well going down wind, it had lost it's magic shape for reverse flow efficiency. Phooey! Maybe I'll take those battens out. Or maybe next down wind race i can use my other older mylar genoa hand me down, it's developed a hook so it should work better than the newer hand me down. Jerry, Shpritz Jerry --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 1:53 PM Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we used a 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has something to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff and the luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes fullness in the poled out luff. You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com> wrote: Allen, Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller sail perhaps. We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech to do this. We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 Jerry --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. Allen

I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not seeing how you are doing it. My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on the mast. I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip to. Randy From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in the butt to rig the after-guy. The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not have won. Pole was much longer than J. I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing or practicing for a race. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com> wrote: >whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you describe. > >using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. > >Reggie > > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > > >Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. > > >Allen > > > > > >

Ok now I get it. You are sheeted down so the pole does not move. Do you have forward stays on your boat? That is my biggest pain in the butt. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:53:10 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we used a 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has something to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff and the luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes fullness in the poled out luff. You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com> wrote: >Allen, >Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller sail perhaps. > >We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech to do this. > >We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? > >Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 > >Jerry > >--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> wrote: > > >>From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM >> >> >> >>Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >>

I had that same problem with getting the pole to be at the clew and not a foot or more back on the sheet. I put a block on a padeye near the bow and a line through the block aft to the cockpit. That line goes up to the pole and is either a downhaul or a fore-guy depending on what you want to call it. When we set the sail up, we have two ways to do it and one involves setting the pole up on the lazy sheet and gybeing the sail over to the pole. You absolutely cannot put the pole on the sail unless the jib is behind the main, which is the other way we do it. The way Forespar says to do it just plain does not work in strong winds. Anyway, then we use the fore-guy to force the pole up to the clew and then pull the sail back with the sheet to its trim position, easing the fore-guy. On a smaller boat with a pin type pole this is not an issue. Oh, my pole is a Forespar #402200 12-22 aluminum line control pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Allen, > I use a pin type whisker pole. We use the lazy sheet, looped over the > forward mooring cleat, and pulled tite, as a foreguy to maintain tightness > on the leech. Remember, I've only got a 24' sailboat with 8.5' between bow > and mast, which of course makes sail handling less stressful. > > I also have another, shorter whisker pole (the Hurricane Gulch shortened it > years ago, it got bent in half so we ended up cutting off the bent end) that > has a snap hook, which we attach to the sheet behind the clew. We have a > problem with the whisker pole working its way, slideing aft along the > working sheet. Come to think of it, it we attached a small line and looped > it over the cleat, maybe even with a length of bungee cord (since we need to > play the whisker pole fore and aft) it could prevent that whisker pole from > doing it. > > Come to think of it, my sailmaker put in battens to cure my hooked leech > problem, after that, the sail wouldn't work as well going down wind, it had > lost it's magic shape for reverse flow efficiency. Phooey! Maybe I'll take > those battens out. Or maybe next down wind race i can use my other older > mylar genoa hand me down, it's developed a hook so it should work better > than the newer hand me down. > > Jerry, Shpritz > > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 1:53 PM > > > > Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we used a > 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has something > to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff and the > luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes fullness > in the poled out luff. > > You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I > am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark > without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on > your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to > tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward > side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or > the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. > Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. > But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to > the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to > windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in > tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to > rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the > pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. > > Allen > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=so… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> Allen, >> Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure >> what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller >> sail perhaps. >> >> We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, >> but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a >> leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to >> reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech >> to do this. >> >> We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we >> round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being >> it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails >> flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? >> >> Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 >> >> Jerry >> >> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com>*wrote: >> >> >> From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM >> >> >> >> Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers >> like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I >> am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind >> and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in >> other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down >> after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use >> an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything >> seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We >> have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong >> winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for >> racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as >> helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information >> on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually >> nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am >> happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested >> in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >> >> Allen >> >> >> > >

I see in what you are saying that there are really different situations. 1) Gybe going down wind: Take the pole down, gybe the jib, pole it out behind the main, then gybe the main. 2) Going from downwind to upwind gybing the main. Take the pole down, gybe the main, harden up. 3) Going downwind to upwind hardening the main, gybing the jib. Gyne the jib with the pole up, take pole down after on new course. It is situation #3 that you need an after-guy. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Randy Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not seeing > how you are doing it. > > My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft > long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and > then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru > the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on > the mast. > > I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip > to. > > Randy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > > > We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in the > butt to rig the after-guy. > The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found out > it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig an > after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the > outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck > but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and > tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed > overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we > taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not > have won. Pole was much longer than J. > I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I > must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. > No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing > or practicing for a race. > > Allen > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com<my… [at] hotmail.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you >> describe. >> >> using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is >> the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must >> be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. >> >> Reggie >> >> ------------------------------ >> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> >> Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers >> like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I >> am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind >> and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in >> other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down >> after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use >> an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything >> seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We >> have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong >> winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for >> racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as >> helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information >> on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually >> nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am >> happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested >> in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >> Allen >> >> >> >> > > >

I am gettin git now. All I need is aplace to attach a foreguy. Thanks again. I always learn something every day. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:15:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles I see in what you are saying that there are really different situations. 1) Gybe going down wind: Take the pole down, gybe the jib, pole it out behind the main, then gybe the main. 2) Going from downwind to upwind gybing the main. Take the pole down, gybe the main, harden up. 3) Going downwind to upwind hardening the main, gybing the jib. Gyne the jib with the pole up, take pole down after on new course. It is situation #3 that you need an after-guy. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com> wrote: >I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not seeing how you are doing it. > >My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on the mast. > >I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip to. > >Randy > > > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > >We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in the butt to rig the after-guy. >The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not have won. Pole was much longer than J. > > >I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing or practicing for a race. > > >Allen > > > > > >On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com> wrote: > > >>whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you describe. >> >>using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. >> >>Reggie >> >> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >> >>From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >>Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> >> >> >>Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >> > >

What pole do you have? Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Randy Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I am gettin git now. All I need is aplace to attach a foreguy. > > Thanks again. I always learn something every day. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:15:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > > > I see in what you are saying that there are really different situations. > > 1) Gybe going down wind: Take the pole down, gybe the jib, pole it out > behind the main, then gybe the main. > 2) Going from downwind to upwind gybing the main. Take the pole down, gybe > the main, harden up. > 3) Going downwind to upwind hardening the main, gybing the jib. Gyne the > jib with the pole up, take pole down after on new course. > > It is situation #3 that you need an after-guy. > > Allen > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com<sa… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not >> seeing how you are doing it. >> >> My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft >> long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and >> then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru >> the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on >> the mast. >> >> I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip >> to. >> >> Randy >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >> >> *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> >> >> >> We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in >> the butt to rig the after-guy. >> The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found >> out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig >> an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the >> outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck >> but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and >> tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed >> overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we >> taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not >> have won. Pole was much longer than J. >> I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I >> must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. >> No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing >> or practicing for a race. >> >> Allen >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com<my… [at] hotmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you >>> describe. >>> >>> using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is >>> the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must >>> be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. >>> >>> Reggie >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >>> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >>> >>> Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of >>> spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the >>> pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going >>> downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the >>> pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the >>> pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I >>> know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and >>> everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, >>> etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in >>> strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work >>> for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as >>> helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information >>> on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually >>> nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am >>> happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested >>> in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >>> Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >

I have a fixed 14ft Forespar. It does have a place I can put a piece of line in it, but I don't think I can get a carribeaner in it to clip onto. From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:19:07 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles What pole do you have? Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com> wrote: >I am gettin git now. All I need is aplace to attach a foreguy. > >Thanks again. I always learn something every day. > > > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:15:25 PM > >Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > >I see in what you are saying that there are really different situations. > > >1) Gybe going down wind: Take the pole down, gybe the jib, pole it out behind the main, then gybe the main. >2) Going from downwind to upwind gybing the main. Take the pole down, gybe the main, harden up. >3) Going downwind to upwind hardening the main, gybing the jib. Gyne the jib with the pole up, take pole down after on new course. > > >It is situation #3 that you need an after-guy. > > >Allen > > > >On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com> wrote: > > >>I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not seeing how you are doing it. >> >>My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on the mast. >> >>I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip to. >> >>Randy >> >> >> >> From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >> >>To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >> >>Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM >>Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> >> >> >>We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in the butt to rig the after-guy. >>The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not have won. Pole was much longer than J. >> >> >>I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move I must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing or practicing for a race. >> >> >>Allen >> >> >> >> >> >>On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com> wrote: >> >> >>>whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you describe. >>> >>>using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole is the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. >>> >>>Reggie >>> >>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com >>> >>>From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >>>Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >>>Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >>> >>> >>> >>>Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >>> >>> >>>Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Take a piece of 1/8 inch amsteel and make a loop. Tie it with a strait bend. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Randy Alcorn <sa… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I have a fixed 14ft Forespar. It does have a place I can put a piece of > line in it, but I don't think I can get a carribeaner in it to clip onto. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:19:07 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > > > > What pole do you have? > > Allen > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com<sa… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> I am gettin git now. All I need is aplace to attach a foreguy. >> >> Thanks again. I always learn something every day. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >> *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:15:25 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >> >> >> >> I see in what you are saying that there are really different situations. >> >> 1) Gybe going down wind: Take the pole down, gybe the jib, pole it out >> behind the main, then gybe the main. >> 2) Going from downwind to upwind gybing the main. Take the pole down, >> gybe the main, harden up. >> 3) Going downwind to upwind hardening the main, gybing the jib. Gyne the >> jib with the pole up, take pole down after on new course. >> >> It is situation #3 that you need an after-guy. >> >> Allen >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Randy Alcorn <saylorran@yahoo. com<sa… [at] yahoo.com> >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I race non-spin with a whisker pole. I have to agree, that I am not >>> seeing how you are doing it. >>> >>> My J is 12 ft and I fly a 155 sail. My whisker pole is short and is 14 ft >>> long. I have to release the pole from the mast, release it from the sail and >>> then either harden up to round the mark or jibe, pull the sail thru >>> the triangle, hook up the sheet and push the sail out and clip the pole on >>> the mast. >>> >>> I have not rigged an after guy yet, my pole does not have a place to clip >>> to. >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> >>> >>> *To:* Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:41:14 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >>> >>> >>> >>> We do it. Leave the pole up and tack. It is just that it is a pain in >>> the butt to rig the after-guy. >>> The first time we did it without an after-guy and that is when we found >>> out it slams into the forestay. No damage but from then on we try and rig >>> an after-guy. So here is the deal, we are going down wind overlapped to the >>> outside with this boat we are racing. I think our pole was over their deck >>> but in any event we were close. We went around the mark with them and >>> tacked. Pole stays on the starboard side, jib now on port. We stayed >>> overlapped with them and eventually passed them and won the race. Had we >>> taken the pole down early, we would not have been able to pass them and not >>> have won. Pole was much longer than J. >>> I guess I wasn't clear in my description. It is a pretty aggressive move >>> I must admit and like I said you don't see much written about it. >>> No cursing boat would ever do it and neither would I except either racing >>> or practicing for a race. >>> >>> Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM, r good <my1972ih@hotmail. com<my… [at] hotmail.com> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> whisker pole would have to be less than J in length to do what you >>>> describe. >>>> >>>> using a whisker pole and genoa, the correct length of the whisker pole >>>> is the genoa's LP, which will be longer than J. Therefor, the pole must >>>> be removed, then gybe or tack the genoa, then reset the pole. >>>> >>>> Reggie >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com <Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> >>>> From: allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com >>>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:38:55 -0700 >>>> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles >>>> >>>> Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of >>>> spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the >>>> pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going >>>> downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the >>>> pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the >>>> pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I >>>> know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and >>>> everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, >>>> etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in >>>> strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work >>>> for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as >>>> helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information >>>> on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually >>>> nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am >>>> happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested >>>> in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. >>>> Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >

so, do you shorten the pole when crossing the foredeck? Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:04:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) I had that same problem with getting the pole to be at the clew and not a foot or more back on the sheet. I put a block on a padeye near the bow and a line through the block aft to the cockpit. That line goes up to the pole and is either a downhaul or a fore-guy depending on what you want to call it. When we set the sail up, we have two ways to do it and one involves setting the pole up on the lazy sheet and gybeing the sail over to the pole. You absolutely cannot put the pole on the sail unless the jib is behind the main, which is the other way we do it. The way Forespar says to do it just plain does not work in strong winds. Anyway, then we use the fore-guy to force the pole up to the clew and then pull the sail back with the sheet to its trim position, easing the fore-guy. On a smaller boat with a pin type pole this is not an issue. Oh, my pole is a Forespar #402200 12-22 aluminum line control pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: Allen, I use a pin type whisker pole. We use the lazy sheet, looped over the forward mooring cleat, and pulled tite, as a foreguy to maintain tightness on the leech. Remember, I've only got a 24' sailboat with 8.5' between bow and mast, which of course makes sail handling less stressful. I also have another, shorter whisker pole (the Hurricane Gulch shortened it years ago, it got bent in half so we ended up cutting off the bent end) that has a snap hook, which we attach to the sheet behind the clew. We have a problem with the whisker pole working its way, slideing aft along the working sheet. Come to think of it, it we attached a small line and looped it over the cleat, maybe even with a length of bungee cord (since we need to play the whisker pole fore and aft) it could prevent that whisker pole from doing it. Come to think of it, my sailmaker put in battens to cure my hooked leech problem, after that, the sail wouldn't work as well going down wind, it had lost it's magic shape for reverse flow efficiency. Phooey! Maybe I'll take those battens out. Or maybe next down wind race i can use my other older mylar genoa hand me down, it's developed a hook so it should work better than the newer hand me down. Jerry, Shpritz Jerry --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 1:53 PM Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we used a 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has something to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff and the luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes fullness in the poled out luff. You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com> wrote: Allen, Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller sail perhaps. We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech to do this. We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 Jerry --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> wrote: From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. Allen

You pretty much have shorten it as the damn thing is 20 feet long. But you have to lengthen it before setting it on the new side. You cannot lengthen it after it is on the jib and the mast. You can try and get it out a couple of feet, but not extended. There is just too much friction in the pole. Basically we are shortening it to be able to swing it around only to lengthen it again. If I could figure out how to reverse it without shortening it I would. I just had a talk with my foredeck guy and he doesn't like any of my ideas for an after-guy so I hope someone on this list has an easier way to do that than what I have come up with. Allen On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:27 PM, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > so, do you shorten the pole when crossing the foredeck? > Reggie > > ------------------------------ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:04:45 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) > > I had that same problem with getting the pole to be at the clew and not > a foot or more back on the sheet. I put a block on a padeye near the bow > and a line through the block aft to the cockpit. That line goes up to the > pole and is either a downhaul or a fore-guy depending on what you want to > call it. When we set the sail up, we have two ways to do it and one > involves setting the pole up on the lazy sheet and gybeing the sail over to > the pole. You absolutely cannot put the pole on the sail unless the jib is > behind the main, which is the other way we do it. The way Forespar says to > do it just plain does not work in strong winds. Anyway, then we use the > fore-guy to force the pole up to the clew and then pull the sail back with > the sheet to its trim position, easing the fore-guy. > On a smaller boat with a pin type pole this is not an issue. > > Oh, my pole is a Forespar #402200 12-22 aluminum line control pole. > > Allen > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Gerald Sobel <so… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > > > Allen, > I use a pin type whisker pole. We use the lazy sheet, looped over the > forward mooring cleat, and pulled tite, as a foreguy to maintain tightness > on the leech. Remember, I've only got a 24' sailboat with 8.5' between bow > and mast, which of course makes sail handling less stressful. > > I also have another, shorter whisker pole (the Hurricane Gulch shortened it > years ago, it got bent in half so we ended up cutting off the bent end) that > has a snap hook, which we attach to the sheet behind the clew. We have a > problem with the whisker pole working its way, slideing aft along the > working sheet. Come to think of it, it we attached a small line and looped > it over the cleat, maybe even with a length of bungee cord (since we need to > play the whisker pole fore and aft) it could prevent that whisker pole from > doing it. > > Come to think of it, my sailmaker put in battens to cure my hooked leech > problem, after that, the sail wouldn't work as well going down wind, it had > lost it's magic shape for reverse flow efficiency. Phooey! Maybe I'll take > those battens out. Or maybe next down wind race i can use my other older > mylar genoa hand me down, it's developed a hook so it should work better > than the newer hand me down. > > Jerry, Shpritz > > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles (Allen) > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 1:53 PM > > Interesting what you say about using a worn out sail. Last night we > used a 40 year old sail and have very good luck with it. It probably has > something to do with the fact that when poled out the leech becomes the luff > and the luff becomes the leech. Thus the hook on the sails leech becomes > fullness in the poled out luff. > > You know, if you leave the pole up and can figure out how to rig it, as I > am trying to figure out the best way, then you can easily round the mark > without taking the pole down. No flopping sails, no problem. You are on > your new course and can take the pole down any time before it is time to > tack. As you can see, you end up taking the pole down from the windward > side. Just make sure you are clipped to the sheet and not to the knot or > the ring. The sheet just plays out through the jaw. You need long sheets. > Mine are probably too long but they are 90 feet long for my 36 ft boat. > But you have to figure that the sheet ends up going from the winch, back to > the turning block, then forward to the end of the pole out 20 feet to > windward, and back to the leeward side of the boat to the sails clew in > tight for the upwind leg. Try it. Then if you figure out an easy way to > rig the after-guy, you can tell me :-) If you don't have the after-guy, the > pole hits the forestay, which is bad for the pole. > > Allen > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Gerald Sobel <sobel_solar@ yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=so… [at] yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > Allen, > Eric and I are the cruising fleet whisker pole wizards, but I'm not sure > what you are talking about. We have the advantage of working with a smaller > sail perhaps. > > We also work hard to get reverse flow and aerodynamic lift from the Genoa, > but last nite I concluded it works best with a worn out foresail with a > leech hook! I had a hard time getting my new second hand mylar jib to > reverse flow...I use an extra set of tel tails set a foot in from the leech > to do this. > > We usually take the whisker pole down a couple of boat lengths before we > round the buoy, and start pulling in the main sheet then, the idea being > it's better to lose a few horse power at that point than have the sails > flapping and dragging when you've turned up wind. Does that help? > > Jerry Sobel, Shpritz, Olde Cal 24 #71 > > Jerry > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com>*wrote: > > > From: Allen Edwards <allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com> > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Racing with whisker poles > To: Cal_Boats@yahoogrou ps.com<http://mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 11:38 AM > > Does anyone on this list race with whisker poles instead of spinnakers > like I do? We have been through many iterations of rigging the pole but I > am left with one thing I am not yet happy with. If you are going downwind > and go around a mark and want to tack or gybe the jib through the pole, in > other words, letting the sheet run through the jaw and taking the pole down > after the rounding, how do you keep the pole off the forestay. (I know, use > an after-guy, but how exactly). We have tried several things and everything > seems like one too many lines, too hard to rig, gets in the way, etc. We > have figured a lot of things out, like how to put up the pole in strong > winds, and find that the instructions given by Forestay do not work for > racing at all. I have talked many times to the folks at Forespar and as > helpful and friendly as they are, they have provided no useful information > on the subject other than to practice. There is very little (actually > nothing useful) on the web as almost all racing is with spinnakers. I am > happy to trade tips if someone has a particular issue and am most interested > in hearing how people deal with the after-guy problem. > > Allen > > > > > > > > >