Wind meter recommendation?

My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. Allen

Do you really care? From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:15:40 PM Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. Allen

That is a strange response. Of course I care. Why do you think I asked. I don't want to get something that is going to go bad in a short time in a marine environment or break the first time I drop it so picking the right sail is a big deal. Do I really care? That is the kind of reply I write after too many scotches but I think you are pretty good with your replies so it really takes me back to get a message like that from you. Perhaps I offended you in one of my replies after too many scotches. If so, I am sorry. Allen On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:32 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Do you really care? > > ________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:15:40 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? > > > > My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. > Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. > Allen > > >

Did you want something handheld or something that is mounted in the boat with a masthead transducer? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:15:40 -0700 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. Allen Windows 7: Simplify your PC. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen1:102009

I appologise for my brusk response. I taught sailing for Orange Coast College, Piloting and Celestial Navigation. I always told students who asked, " You sail in the wind you have, don't concern yourself with the number some electronic or mechanical device tells you." "Change down when the toerail dissappears, change up when the boat won't go." It was too many gin & tonics, by the way. My Best, As Always, Mike From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:56:18 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? That is a strange response. Of course I care. Why do you think I asked. I don't want to get something that is going to go bad in a short time in a marine environment or break the first time I drop it so picking the right sail is a big deal. Do I really care? That is the kind of reply I write after too many scotches but I think you are pretty good with your replies so it really takes me back to get a message like that from you. Perhaps I offended you in one of my replies after too many scotches. If so, I am sorry. Allen On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:32 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Do you really care? > > ________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:15:40 PM > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? > > > > My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. > Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. > Allen > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

All, I have been researching this topic for months. In the past six years, Magic has been sailing without any wind instrumentation. We are thinking of a masthead unit with a close hauled display may be the thing to have for racing. OK, that being said, my preference is to go with a wireless masthead unit. Tacktick and Furuno are the only manufacturers that I have found that offer this feature. Input from other sailors indicate that NEITHER is "ready for prime time", although some people have had great success with theirs. If I go with a wired unit, I prefer to step into the 21st century and take are hard look at those with a NMEA 2000 interface. Airmar makes an interesting unit that has no moving parts. My choice of last resort will be to buy something that has a proprietary interface, which includes the majority of manufacturers. For personal reasons, Raymarine is at the bottom of my list. --Michael--

I have used an Extec handheld anemometer for years. I purchased it at WW Grainger, for if I remember correctly, about $100. It shows temperature and wind speed in mph and knots. Very simple and has digital display. It makes a great backup for my primary masthead unit. Patrick From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 7:28:10 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? All, I have been researching this topic for months. In the past six years, Magic has been sailing without any wind instrumentation. We are thinking of a masthead unit with a close hauled display may be the thing to have for racing. OK, that being said, my preference is to go with a wireless masthead unit. Tacktick and Furuno are the only manufacturers that I have found that offer this feature. Input from other sailors indicate that NEITHER is "ready for prime time", although some people have had great success with theirs. If I go with a wired unit, I prefer to step into the 21st century and take are hard look at those with a NMEA 2000 interface. Airmar makes an interesting unit that has no moving parts. My choice of last resort will be to buy something that has a proprietary interface, which includes the majority of manufacturers. For personal reasons, Raymarine is at the bottom of my list. --Michael--

Allen Edwards wrote: > > > My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold > your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 > knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. > You've got the model made by Taylor with the little white ball that rises in the tube? These are highly sensitive to moisture. We use them in the schoolship programs and we have learned to keep them in a dry pocket during the day and next to the galley woodstove overnight. You can purchase new balls for them, as I recall, and since they are just expanded polystyrene, they ought to be cheap. I just called the schoolship office and they buy the replacement balls from Forestry Suppliers, which I found here: http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/. Even if you get something more exotic--the expensive kind that breaks when a bird decides to land on the sensor at masthead--you might want to tune up the old basic model as a backup. Chris Campbell > . > >

mike farrell wrote: > > I appologise for my brusk response. I taught sailing for Orange > Coast College, Piloting and Celestial Navigation. I always told > students who asked, " You sail in the wind you have, don't concern > yourself with the number some electronic or mechanical device tells > you." "Change down when the toerail dissappears, change up when the > boat won't go." It can be nice to have some data to write down. I used to do what Mike says--just match my sails to the weather--but I was always reading about people describing their experiences when it was blowing /X/ knots, and I wondered what that meant. My device is a little Kestrel handheld. I like its max and average readout options and the ability to measure in many different units (miles, knots, m/s, Force scale, etc.). I have started keeping records of apparent wind speed, point of sail, sea state, sails deployed, and boat performance. This helps me get a better sense for what's happening and what to expect. Also, I single-hand a lot. On the other boat, that means bending on sail in the marina, sailing or powering about 1.5 miles down the river and shipping channel, and then setting sail. It's extremely inconvenient to change jibs in the river's dredged channel, which is narrow and often filled with powerboats. It can be equally inconvenient to find your self overpowered when singlehanding. Not impossible or even intimidating, but certainly inconvenient. Having some objective indicators of which jib to choose can be helpful here. I've been using the wind gauge on the Cal 20 too. It's nice to have some way to relate wind speed to boat performance. Chris Campbell >

mike farrell wrote: > > I appologise for my brusk response. I taught sailing for Orange > Coast College, Piloting and Celestial Navigation. I always told > students who asked, " You sail in the wind you have, don't concern > yourself with the number some electronic or mechanical device tells > you." "Change down when the toerail dissappears, change up when the > boat won't go." It can be nice to have some data to write down. I used to do what Mike says--just match my sails to the weather--but I was always reading about people describing their experiences when it was blowing /X/ knots, and I wondered what that meant. My device is a little Kestrel handheld. I like its max and average readout options and the ability to measure in many different units (miles, knots, m/s, Force scale, etc.). I have started keeping records of apparent wind speed, point of sail, sea state, sails deployed, and boat performance. This helps me get a better sense for what's happening and what to expect. Also, I single-hand a lot. On the other boat, that means bending on sail in the marina, sailing or powering about 1.5 miles down the river and shipping channel, and then setting sail. It's extremely inconvenient to change jibs in the river's dredged channel, which is narrow and often filled with powerboats. It can be equally inconvenient to find your self overpowered when singlehanding. Not impossible or even intimidating, but certainly inconvenient. Having some objective indicators of which jib to choose can be helpful here. I've been using the wind gauge on the Cal 20 too. It's nice to have some way to relate wind speed to boat performance. Chris Campbell >

Michael, I installed the Airmar pb200 on our 2-46 several years ago as a component for a new autopilot. We've had no problems with it, we use a tecnautic display unit. Pricey but trouble free. http://www.tecnautic.com <http://www.tecnautic.com/> Wyatt From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:28 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? All, I have been researching this topic for months. In the past six years, Magic has been sailing without any wind instrumentation. We are thinking of a masthead unit with a close hauled display may be the thing to have for racing. OK, that being said, my preference is to go with a wireless masthead unit. Tacktick and Furuno are the only manufacturers that I have found that offer this feature. Input from other sailors indicate that NEITHER is "ready for prime time", although some people have had great success with theirs. If I go with a wired unit, I prefer to step into the 21st century and take are hard look at those with a NMEA 2000 interface. Airmar makes an interesting unit that has no moving parts. My choice of last resort will be to buy something that has a proprietary interface, which includes the majority of manufacturers. For personal reasons, Raymarine is at the bottom of my list. --Michael--

Wyatt, I have spoken to Airmar product management. I was told that they haven't officially recommended the PB series for sailboats due to the microprocessors in the unit may interfere with VHF reception/transmission when the antenna is mounted at the masthead within 3 feet of the Airmar unit. Here are two articles that some may find interesting, here and a follow-up. --Michael--

I went with the wireless Tacktick this year (@$1100) and love it but can't tell you if it's ready for prime time or not since I am a novice racer. Seems to work well and allows me to keep the boat on the right heading to keep the sails full. It also has an optional NMEA 2000 wireless interface so you can incorporate other devices. Bob Connell "Jollygood!", Cal 31, #59 Olympia, WA now Shilshole Bay Seattle --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: From: Michael D <md… [at] yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 5:28 AM All, I have been researching this topic for months. In the past six years, Magic has been sailing without any wind instrumentation. We are thinking of a masthead unit with a close hauled display may be the thing to have for racing. OK, that being said, my preference is to go with a wireless masthead unit. Tacktick and Furuno are the only manufacturers that I have found that offer this feature. Input from other sailors indicate that NEITHER is "ready for prime time", although some people have had great success with theirs. If I go with a wired unit, I prefer to step into the 21st century and take are hard look at those with a NMEA 2000 interface. Airmar makes an interesting unit that has no moving parts. My choice of last resort will be to buy something that has a proprietary interface, which includes the majority of manufacturers. For personal reasons, Raymarine is at the bottom of my list. --Michael--

I should have been clear. I am looking for something hand held. I had not considered a mast head unit as the use is really pre-race to pick a sail. Once the race starts, we are stuck with what is up there so there is no chance to change even if it is obvious that we are over powered or under powered. We don't fly spinnakers, which is the obvious time to change headsails . In a race you win or lose by 15 seconds, you can't afford to change sails. I lost one race last year by 0.05 seconds. We also want to use it to give us an indication when it is time to check halyard and backstay tensions, although I have yet to figure out how to get my crew to do that. Perhaps a mast head unit would be the answer. I had not considered a mast head unit but perhaps I should. However, the reply talking about the wireless units not being ready for prime time is discouraging. Allen On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 4:10 AM, Scott Sauvageot <rx… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Did you want something handheld or something that is mounted in the boat with a masthead transducer? > > > ________________________________ > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:15:40 -0700 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? > > > My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. > Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. > Allen > > > ________________________________ > Windows 7: Simplify your PC. Learn more. > >

My preference is Scotch. It is my impression that there are optimal wind speeds for different sails short of the obvious totally overpowered/ underpowered criteria you rightfully talk about. I have three headsails to pick from. We did really well last week picking the 130 against our opponent with a 155. I really wish I had a record of the wind. I am sure we could have sailed that race with a 155 without putting the rail in the water and we could have sailed with a 90 without being obviously under powered. I think the wind was about 15. Any of our sails work in that wind, but I think the 130 works best. Allen On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 4:49 AM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > I appologise for my brusk response. I taught sailing for Orange Coast College, Piloting and Celestial Navigation. I always told students who asked, " You sail in the wind you have, don't concern yourself with the number some electronic or mechanical device tells you." "Change down when the toerail dissappears, change up when the boat won't go." > It was too many gin & tonics, by the way. > My Best, As Always, Mike > > ________________________________ > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:56:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? > > That is a strange response. Of course I care. Why do you think I > asked. I don't want to get something that is going to go bad in a > short time in a marine environment or break the first time I drop it > so picking the right sail is a big deal. > > Do I really care? That is the kind of reply I write after too many > scotches but I think you are pretty good with your replies so it > really takes me back to get a message like that from you. Perhaps I > offended you in one of my replies after too many scotches. If so, I > am sorry. > > Allen > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 8:32 PM, mike farrell <ve… [at] yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you really care? > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 8:15:40 PM > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? > > > > > > > > My old "trusty" wind meter, the one with two scales where you hold your finger over a hole to change scales decided to always read 5 knots regardless of the wind. It is time for a new one. It would have been nice to have had a good meter last weekend as picking the 130 instead of the 155 was greatly to our advantage and we don't really know what the wind was for next time. > > Anyone have recommendations on what to get or what not to get? I was never really happy with the two scale meter as the two scales never agreed with each other. I think I need to know when it is under 12 or over 20. I would like to be able to tell the difference between 11 and 12 so anything with reasonable resolution is going to be fine and 2 decimal digits of resolution would just be a distraction. Mainly I want something that will last in a salt spray environment. > > Allen > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Michael, My VHF antennae is mounted 2-3 inches from the PB200. On the advice of Otto Hollborn of Tecnautic, I did extend the mount tube upward about 10 inches partly because of their concerns about interference and partly to minimize turbulence from the masthead itself. At any rate the VHF still works fine, though I haven't checked to see if transmitting adversely affects the PB200. The auto pilot in wind mode performs better than any other I've seen, even wing n wing. Another approach would be to deck mount the VHF antennae, (sounds crazy) but I did read an article recently that claims better overall VHF performance when the antennae is mounted lower due to reflection. The article asserted that with the lower perspective, signal bounce off of the water surface enhanced VHF performance. Truth is I rarely use the hard wired VHF, the handheld is more convenient. Wyatt From: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:28 AM To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Wind meter recommendation? (Wyatt) Wyatt, I have spoken to Airmar product management. I was told that they haven't officially recommended the PB series for sailboats due to the microprocessors in the unit may interfere with VHF reception/transmission when the antenna is mounted at the masthead within 3 feet of the Airmar unit. Here are two articles that some may find interesting, here <http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/02/sailing_with_an_airmar_pb200_.htm l> and a follow-up <http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/02/sailing_with_an_airmar_pb200_-_pa rt_ii_.html> . --Michael--

Bob, Thanks for you response. I'm more concerned with loss of signal from the masthead unit to the display. I have heard that others have a signal drop-out, and it sometimes takes recycling power on the display to get wind data displaying again. For others it has been rock solid. I'd like to hear more about your experience. As a side note, another sailor in my club has a Tacktick unit. He likes it alot, although I do recall we lost wind data for about 3 minutes (for no apparent reason) during our race from Fort Lauderdale to Key West last year. --Michael--