Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish!

DEKS OLJE (sp?) is one of the best. It is a two component system, the first part is an oil that you apply about 3-4 coats of (apply, let soak in, apply next coat until no more soaks in). That produces a somewhat satin, oiled finish, then you apply several coats of the second part, this adds the semi-gloss (might be gloss) finish of a varnish. Supposedly regular maintenance consists of simply scuffing the surface and applying a light coat of part 2 when needed. Unlike varnish, you can easily touch up the finish without major sanding and recoating. I remember seeing glowing recommendations of this system in their ads, testimonies from users who really are torture testing their bright-finished boats. When I was working in a marine store we couldn't keep DEKS OLJE in stock for long......it just kept selling out! One thing is that unlike varnish, Deks Olje doesn't tend to bubble and lift off the surface since it is more of an oil finish. The 2 parts are sold separate. Part 1 can be used alone if the oiled look is preferred. I've also heard great things about BRISTOL FINISH. The beauty of teak is that you can just let it go, it won't look pristine.... but it won't rot away for a good long time. We used teak oil on the teak trim of our CAL 21, lightly sanding to smooth it first. However, even during our short New England seasons (June-September) we really needed to reapply a coat of oil every 3 weeks or so. Using typical teak cleaners (many are bleaches) will erode the wood away and tends to make matters worse, light sanding worked better for us. The teak pieces (and other wood trim) on my Day Sailer (yes, there are a few!) are all varnished with Petit Captain's Varnish, and I get VERY good results even on teak plywood that is exposed to the weather all season (May-October). Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'Day DS II 10201 former co-owner of "NODROG" 1970 CAL 21 #285 On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:49:35 -0800 (PST) Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com> writes: I really need to do something with the teak on the outside of my boat (inside is oiled and just fine). There isn't much teak on the outside but what there is needs attention. There are only handholds, companionway hatch boards, a bit of trim referred to as an "eyebrow", and coaming caps. My primary objective is preservation, my secondary objective is ease of maintenance, and my tertiary objective is cosmetic appeal. Can you all share you opinions about your favorite teak treatment. Regards, Wayne Gillikin "Elusive" 1982 Cal 39 Mk 3 Stock Trading Save big on Stock Trading Fees. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=3EbzQ7ZKN1A2l23OMU4V5QAAJ1CIixW8vmHn6WPZlsvVErEuAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADaQAAAAA=

I do a lot to keep Papoose up but doing anything with the teak is not one of them. Over time the teak does get smaller and it looks kind of grey and gets some texture if you don't sand it probably every decade. Varnished teak looks great but takes a lot of work to keep in good shape. Teak has natural oils so doesn't really need anything. It also doesn't take varnish well because of these same oils. My daddy used to tell me that varnishing teak was a terrible idea because of these two factors (it doesn't need it and it doesn't work well). I have no idea if doing nothing is better or worse than sanding it every year in terms of wear but I can tell you that after almost 55 years of doing nothing, the teak is still doing its job although I had to cut off some of the screws that were beginning to show through as the shrinking had gotten that bad. I have tried varnish and oil. Of the two, I prefer oil as you can do it in one day and if you don't varnish 3 times a year, you end up having to strip the entire thing off and start over, a 4 day job. My biggest wonderment it seeing people with varnished teak and holly cabin soles. The whole idea of teak and holly is that it is not slippery when wet and it doesn't need to be varnished. The reason holly is used is that it doesn't turn dark like most white woods when it is exposed to water. My cabin sole is oiled and that is absolutely the way I recommend it. There you don't even have to re-oil very often. Go below with wet gear and you don't slip around. But almost every boat I have been on has varnished cabin soles. I don't get it. Allen

Allen, I have the same issue with the cabin sole. When it gets wet it is a skating rink. Also, it gets scuff marks no matter what you do. I considered sanding it down and putting a two part urethane on it with some non-skid mixed in. I did that on the companion way ladder a few years back and it worked fine. Leaving the sole au naturel is more better still! The more I hear of oiled teak the better I like it. Thanks for the input. Regards, Wayne From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 11:23:16 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! I do a lot to keep Papoose up but doing anything with the teak is not one of them. Over time the teak does get smaller and it looks kind of grey and gets some texture if you don't sand it probably every decade. Varnished teak looks great but takes a lot of work to keep in good shape. Teak has natural oils so doesn't really need anything. It also doesn't take varnish well because of these same oils. My daddy used to tell me that varnishing teak was a terrible idea because of these two factors (it doesn't need it and it doesn't work well). I have no idea if doing nothing is better or worse than sanding it every year in terms of wear but I can tell you that after almost 55 years of doing nothing, the teak is still doing its job although I had to cut off some of the screws that were beginning to show through as the shrinking had gotten that bad. I have tried varnish and oil. Of the two, I prefer oil as you can do it in one day and if you don't varnish 3 times a year, you end up having to strip the entire thing off and start over, a 4 day job. My biggest wonderment it seeing people with varnished teak and holly cabin soles. The whole idea of teak and holly is that it is not slippery when wet and it doesn't need to be varnished. The reason holly is used is that it doesn't turn dark like most white woods when it is exposed to water. My cabin sole is oiled and that is absolutely the way I recommend it. There you don't even have to re-oil very often. Go below with wet gear and you don't slip around. But almost every boat I have been on has varnished cabin soles. I don't get it. Allen

some folks hate external wood upkeep so much they eliminate the wood in favor of something else. I know of a CAL with the external companionway trim and the companionway hatch sliders, which were in bad shape, replaced with the appropriate color of Trex. You have to look carefully from up close to be able to tell it is not teak. no upkeep. Hose off, go sailing. they sail her a lot. It lives outside all year long though usually with a tarp covering in the winter. The Trex has been on the boat several years already. they selected chunks of Trex which could be worked to match the original look. Reggie

You are welcome. Also, because it is below and out of the elements, you don't even have to re oil it very often. To me it is an easy decision. Above deck, I understand that people might want to varnish even though I don't. One of the boats in our fleet painted the teak and I have some painted teak as well on my winch pads. I sanded them down at one point and oiled them but they started to crack from the exposure to the dry air and I had to paint them again. But if you really don't want to maintain teak and you don't care what it looks like but you want to protect it, paint it. Allen On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Wayne Gillikin <wa… [at] yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Allen, > > I have the same issue with the cabin sole. When it gets wet it is a > skating rink. Also, it gets scuff marks no matter what you do. I > considered sanding it down and putting a two part urethane on it with some > non-skid mixed in. I did that on the companion way ladder a few years back > and it worked fine. Leaving the sole au naturel is more better still! The > more I hear of oiled teak the better I like it. > > Thanks for the input. > > Regards, > Wayne > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> > *To:* Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Mon, December 14, 2009 11:23:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! > > > > I do a lot to keep Papoose up but doing anything with the teak is not one > of them. Over time the teak does get smaller and it looks kind of grey and > gets some texture if you don't sand it probably every decade. Varnished > teak looks great but takes a lot of work to keep in good shape. Teak has > natural oils so doesn't really need anything. It also doesn't take varnish > well because of these same oils. My daddy used to tell me that varnishing > teak was a terrible idea because of these two factors (it doesn't need it > and it doesn't work well). I have no idea if doing nothing is better or > worse than sanding it every year in terms of wear but I can tell you that > after almost 55 years of doing nothing, the teak is still doing its job > although I had to cut off some of the screws that were beginning to show > through as the shrinking had gotten that bad. I have tried varnish and oil. > Of the two, I prefer oil as you can do it in one day and if you don't > varnish 3 times a year, you end up having to strip the entire thing off and > start over, a 4 day job. > > My biggest wonderment it seeing people with varnished teak and holly cabin > soles. The whole idea of teak and holly is that it is not slippery when wet > and it doesn't need to be varnished. The reason holly is used is that it > doesn't turn dark like most white woods when it is exposed to water. My > cabin sole is oiled and that is absolutely the way I recommend it. There > you don't even have to re-oil very often. Go below with wet gear and you > don't slip around. But almost every boat I have been on has varnished cabin > soles. I don't get it. > > Allen > > >

<With covers, you only have to throw on a couple touch-up coats every two years.> There is a boat in our marina that has covers on EVERYTHING . . . toe rail, dorade boxes, hatch boards, grab rails etc etc . . . they never seem to go anywhere . . . just guessing mind you, but if I had to take all that stuff off, store it, and then put it back on every time I wanted to use the boat I'd probably sit in my slip too, but that's just me. It just seems that in this day and age when time seems to be so limited despite being able to do everything at the click of a button . . . (probably due to globama climate warming change caused by the Hell breaking loose at Tiger's house . . .) JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!! ;-) . . . you need to decide carefully how you want to spend your time. Its all about the choices you make, to each his own, I judge not. Paul (with teak that looks like crap and a bottom that shines, go figure) Adventure Kwest '80 Cal 39

The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last longer. The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer that makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I will do them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I got rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab rails are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:57 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > <With covers, you only have to throw on a couple touch-up coats > every two years.> > > There is a boat in our marina that has covers on EVERYTHING . . . > toe rail, dorade boxes, hatch boards, grab rails etc etc . . . they > never seem to go anywhere . . . just guessing mind you, but if I > had to take all that stuff off, store it, and then put it back on > every time I wanted to use the boat I'd probably sit in my slip too, > but that's just me. > > It just seems that in this day and age when time seems to be so > limited despite being able to do everything at the click of a > button . . . (probably due to globama climate warming change caused > by the Hell breaking loose at Tiger's house . . .) > > JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!! ;-) . . . > > you need to decide carefully how you want to spend your time. Its > all about the choices you make, to each his own, I judge not. > > Paul (with teak that looks like crap and a bottom that shines, go > figure) > Adventure Kwest > '80 Cal 39 > >

When I restored the boat and the grab rails are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. Mike - Do you remember approx what it cost to do the stainless handrails? Any words of wisdom/caution/advice for someone wanting to do that? A friend of mine in Canada just did that I think he said it cost him $100 per foot. That sounds like a lot and I may be mis-remembering so I'll ask him again. I'd love to do that on my boat as the last time they were done, whoever did it got whatever they used on the deck and it looks like crap and is blistering too. Thanks - Paul West Adventure Kwest '80 Cal 39

On Footloose I tried Bristol Finish with marginal luck, despite the promise of the two-part durability. Too many places it bubbled, even some I know I prepared well, since it is vapor-proof any trapped moisture causes a problem. But I have one dockmate who loves it's competitor (which I can't remember, honey something ) and one who took Bristol Finish off after a month. I guess it YMMV. At the moment I'm converting to the new Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak. It is a lot less orange than the previous product, and should be durable and easy to keep up. Footloose came bright and shiny - she has wood around her portlights too - but it's all too much work. It's a boat, not a grand piano. Kirk Footloose Cal 2-34 On 12/14/2009 11:14 AM, Michael Kennedy wrote: > The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last longer. > The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer that > makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two > years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I will do > them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I got > rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab rails > are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:57 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > >> >> -- Kirk Grier kg… [at] kirkgrier.com

Mike, I have used an undercoat of epoxy and a few coats of two part urethane with great success in the past. I had a Cal 28 before this boat and it had wooden spreaders. I used standard issue varnish several times but the sun was murder on it. After I gave them the epoxy/urethane treatment the result was bullet proof. I tried the same on the coaming caps on this boat but every time I applied the epoxy I would get tiny bubbles and it would turn milky/opaque in parts. The milky result is from excess moisture but it should not have happened given ambient conditions at the time. I have no idea what caused the bubbles. The only thing I hate more than varnishing is taking it off and re-varnishing. So, I'm crying Uncle and looking for a fool-proof approach for the lazy guy. Regards, Wayne From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:14:13 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last longer. The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer that makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I will do them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I got rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab rails are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96

I don't remember but it was nothing like that. There are two on each side because I have Dorade boxes for the vents. They might have been $100 each and are 3 and 6 feet, I think. I'll see if I can find the paperwork. I think I ordered them on-line. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:46 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > > When I restored the boat and the grab rails > are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. > > Mike - > > Do you remember approx what it cost to do the stainless handrails? > Any words of wisdom/caution/advice for someone wanting to do that? > > A friend of mine in Canada just did that I think he said it cost him > $100 per foot. That sounds like a lot and I may be mis-remembering > so I'll ask him again. I'd love to do that on my boat as the last > time they were done, whoever did it got whatever they used on the > deck and it looks like crap and is blistering too. > > Thanks - > > Paul West > Adventure Kwest > '80 Cal 39 > > >

My toe rails were brand new when epoxied and it wasn't the West stuff. I don't know the name. Maybe being new made the difference. I have used the Epifanes with high UV protection and it will be two years soon. I think I did four coats the last time. The cockpit backrests look like they were varnished a month ago. The toe rails show some age will need it soon. Mike Kennedy Conquest Cal 40 # 96 On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Wayne Gillikin wrote: > > Mike, > > I have used an undercoat of epoxy and a few coats of two part > urethane with great success in the past. I had a Cal 28 before this > boat and it had wooden spreaders. I used standard issue varnish > several times but the sun was murder on it. After I gave them the > epoxy/urethane treatment the result was bullet proof. I tried the > same on the coaming caps on this boat but every time I applied the > epoxy I would get tiny bubbles and it would turn milky/opaque in > parts. The milky result is from excess moisture but it should not > have happened given ambient conditions at the time. I have no idea > what caused the bubbles. The only thing I hate more than varnishing > is taking it off and re-varnishing. So, I'm crying Uncle and > looking for a fool-proof approach for the lazy guy. > > Regards, > Wayne > > From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:14:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! > > The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last longer. > The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer that > makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two > years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I will do > them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I got > rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab rails > are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > > >

Was it Smiths epoxy? That stuff is very thin and penetrates. Also smells terrible. Allen On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > My toe rails were brand new when epoxied and it wasn't the West stuff. > I don't know the name. Maybe being new made the difference. I have > used the Epifanes with high UV protection and it will be two years > soon. I think I did four coats the last time. The cockpit backrests > look like they were varnished a month ago. The toe rails show some age > will need it soon. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Wayne Gillikin wrote: > >> >> Mike, >> >> I have used an undercoat of epoxy and a few coats of two part >> urethane with great success in the past. I had a Cal 28 before this >> boat and it had wooden spreaders. I used standard issue varnish >> several times but the sun was murder on it. After I gave them the >> epoxy/urethane treatment the result was bullet proof. I tried the >> same on the coaming caps on this boat but every time I applied the >> epoxy I would get tiny bubbles and it would turn milky/opaque in >> parts. The milky result is from excess moisture but it should not >> have happened given ambient conditions at the time. I have no idea >> what caused the bubbles. The only thing I hate more than varnishing >> is taking it off and re-varnishing. So, I'm crying Uncle and >> looking for a fool-proof approach for the lazy guy. >> >> Regards, >> Wayne >> >> From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:14:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! >> >> The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last longer. >> The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer that >> makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two >> years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I will do >> them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I got >> rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab rails >> are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. >> >> Mike Kennedy >> Conquest Cal 40 # 96 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Mike and Paul attached are photos of the ss handrails I had made up in Oakland (Metal Magic) 2 years ago. As I recall the pair (different lengths) cost about $400. I am very happy with them...much stronger than teak, and NO varnish. They are through bolted. Mike Robinson Holiday Cal 36 # 4 > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: mt… [at] cox.net > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:13:45 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! > > I don't remember but it was nothing like that. There are two on each > side because I have Dorade boxes for the vents. They might have been > $100 each and are 3 and 6 feet, I think. I'll see if I can find the > paperwork. I think I ordered them on-line. > > Mike Kennedy > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:46 AM, pw… [at] aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > When I restored the boat and the grab rails > > are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. > > > > Mike - > > > > Do you remember approx what it cost to do the stainless handrails? > > Any words of wisdom/caution/advice for someone wanting to do that? > > > > A friend of mine in Canada just did that I think he said it cost him > > $100 per foot. That sounds like a lot and I may be mis-remembering > > so I'll ask him again. I'd love to do that on my boat as the last > > time they were done, whoever did it got whatever they used on the > > deck and it looks like crap and is blistering too. > > > > Thanks - > > > > Paul West > > Adventure Kwest > > '80 Cal 39 > > > > > > > > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

Could be. The guy who made the rails and fixed the joint did it and I didn't pay that close attention. If somebody really wants to know, I've got his number someplace. Mike Kennedy Conquest cal 40 # 96 On Dec 14, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Allen Edwards wrote: > Was it Smiths epoxy? That stuff is very thin and penetrates. Also > smells terrible. > > Allen > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Michael Kennedy > <mt… [at] cox.net> wrote: > > My toe rails were brand new when epoxied and it wasn't the West > stuff. > > I don't know the name. Maybe being new made the difference. I have > > used the Epifanes with high UV protection and it will be two years > > soon. I think I did four coats the last time. The cockpit backrests > > look like they were varnished a month ago. The toe rails show some > age > > will need it soon. > > > > Mike Kennedy > > Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > > > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Wayne Gillikin wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike, > >> > >> I have used an undercoat of epoxy and a few coats of two part > >> urethane with great success in the past. I had a Cal 28 before > this > >> boat and it had wooden spreaders. I used standard issue varnish > >> several times but the sun was murder on it. After I gave them the > >> epoxy/urethane treatment the result was bullet proof. I tried the > >> same on the coaming caps on this boat but every time I applied the > >> epoxy I would get tiny bubbles and it would turn milky/opaque in > >> parts. The milky result is from excess moisture but it should not > >> have happened given ambient conditions at the time. I have no idea > >> what caused the bubbles. The only thing I hate more than > varnishing > >> is taking it off and re-varnishing. So, I'm crying Uncle and > >> looking for a fool-proof approach for the lazy guy. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Wayne > >> > >> From: Michael Kennedy <mt… [at] cox.net> > >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > >> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:14:13 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] I hate to varnish! > >> > >> The newer varnishes have a lot of sun screen in them and last > longer. > >> The teak on Conquest was originally sealed with an epoxy sealer > that > >> makes the toe rails look a little dark but they are now nearly two > >> years since the last varnish job and still look pretty good. I > will do > >> them after New Years again and it takes about a week to do it. I > got > >> rid of the teak grab rails when I restored the boat and the grab > rails > >> are now stainless. They were the worst job to refinish. > >> > >> Mike Kennedy > >> Conquest Cal 40 # 96 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

I was very pleased with my new stainless handrails. contact ke… [at] metalogicinc.com. the 4 handrails were under $500 when I bought them a year ago. more pictures if anyone interested. Reggie

I think I may have been thinking of HONEY TEAK when I mentioned Bristol Finish? Oh Well, I remember an episode of Ship-Shape TV that had the founder of one of them (I still think it was Bristol Finish?) raving about how much better his product was than varnish....... speaking about it's performance in the Florida sunshine....... but then everyone thinks that their product is absolutely the best thing since sliced bread. I'll have to look up my collection of saved episodes to check on this! Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD" 1979 O'DAY DS II #10201 On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:49:36 -0800 Kirk Grier <kg… [at] kirkgrier.com> writes: > On Footloose I tried Bristol Finish with marginal luck, despite the > promise of > the two-part durability. Too many places it bubbled, even some I > know I > prepared well, since it is vapor-proof any trapped moisture causes a > problem. > But I have one dockmate who loves it's competitor (which I can't > remember, > honey something ) and one who took Bristol Finish off after a month. > I guess > it YMMV. > > At the moment I'm converting to the new Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak. > It is a > lot less orange than the previous product, and should be durable and > easy to > keep up. Footloose came bright and shiny - she has wood around her > portlights > too - but it's all too much work. It's a boat, not a grand piano. > > Kirk > Footloose Cal 2-34 Cash Advance Need cash? Click to get a cash advance. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=fa9V0-k15xKM_Vk6oEJeRQAAJ1CIixW8vmHn6WPZlsvVErEuAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADdgAAAAA=