Re: [Cal_Boats] sail cloth (Paul)

Ppaul, I sail in the bay typically with too much wind so I am always asking for flatter sails. No waves although there is some nice chop at times but it isn't like sailing in the ocean. I know what you mean by hard to find a grove though. Keeping Papoose sailing well with the 155 with 20+kt of wind takes huge amounts of concentration. As I tell my crew, "this is way harder than it looks". The deal with this sail is I think I finally have my crew to the point where we can change sails in the middle of a race. We don't use spinnakers so it is a little different than typical. Again, thanks for your lead. I will keep it in mind. Allen On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > Allen - > > If he's giving you that kind of service than I'd stick with him. When I > told Scott, of Evolution, that I wasn't real happy with my Quantum he said > " It's hard to find a groove isn't it." I said YES, HOW DID YOU KNOW?? > > He said that the software they use for design really cuts them too flat for > most people. With all the wind you have that may not be an issue but then > again you are probably in good sized waves as well so you'll need a deeper > cut to provide the power to pull that heavy boat thru the waves. > > Ask your guy how much their software allows them to tweak the design and if > what I said above is true about needing some depth for power to pull thru > waves, make sure he is aware and you guys are on the same page. > > Good luck. > > Ya know, if you just want advice from Scott, he's always happy to talk and > give advice. > > Paul > > In a message dated 12/23/2009 5:53:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: > > > > Thanks for the recommendation, I really appreciate it. This group is a > great group of people. > > Here is the thing, there were not a lot of L-36s built and they are all a > little different so I basically have a one of a kind boat. In addition, I > am putting a jib inside the forward lower shroud which is going to be a very > close fit. So I feel a real need for a high level of custom service. The > local Quantum rep sailed with me I think 8 times to make sure the 3 sails I > bought from him were perfect. Now that would not have been necessary had > they been perfect to begin with but the two sails I got from North and had > for an average of 10 years each were never right and the guy never sailed > with me. They re-cut the main twice and then I gave up. The jib was not > what I ordered but he talked me into keeping it. I like the service I get > from Quantum. > > Cheap sails? My good friend sails with these and loves them > http://www.fareastsails.com/ > <http://www.fareastsails.com/>I think they look like old rags but if I > sailed 125 times a year like he does mine might look like rags too so I > can't knock them. They weren't right either but he lived with them like I > did with the North Sails. > > Allen > > > On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Allen - >> >> That sounds pricey for a 90%. I'd be willing to bet my sailmaker could >> beat that and ship it across the US for less than that. >> >> Check out his site http://www.evolutionsails.com/ >> >> If you want to call, ask for Scott Gibbs and tell him Paul West referred >> you. The drawback is going to be getting the boat measured. I don't know >> if he has a loft on the west coast yet. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> > >

Paul, I am understanding more what he is quoting for the Fusion-MX sail. Apparently they make the Fusin-MX (newer and cheaper version of your Fusion-M sail) with a number of different scrim options. These run from Polyester, Pentax, Spectra, Kevlar, to Carbon with various combinations. The one he quoted me is Polyester (Dacron). I think there are 4 layers, taffeta, scrim, mylar, taffeta. Do you know which type of scrim your sail has and do you have an opinion in terms of my boat? I think the idea here is not to get a sail that is too stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We want it to hold its shape but have a little give for the puffs. I actually think the construction is similar to the Norlam except the Norlam is 3 layers without the scrim. The other difference is that the Norlam sails are tri-radial where the Quantum get their strength from the scrim yarns. Allen Fusion MX is a Quantum product. It was announced just 8 months ago so is > fairly new. > > *Must be a "new" version of the Fusion M which is what our 155 was.* > > > I am also unclear how strong the fibers are. Perhaps they are very > strong, like bullet proof materials. > > *Yes, they are ridiculously strong. I forget how much weight you can lift > with one fiber but it is crazy. It is not the fiber that wears out, it is > the mylar-ish material that they are adhered to that wears out. The rule of > thumb is that UV does more damage to these sails than moisture whereas > Dacron is more UV resistant but does not like moisture. So with a high tech > sail you can ride'em hard and put them away wet so to speak.* > > > I would like the sail to last 10 years. > > > > *I think that is very doable. Ask the sailmaker and be ready to tell him > how often* *you sail, what percentage is racing vs cruising and what is > your upper wind speed limit that you'll sail in.* > > > >

Paul, I am understanding more what he is quoting for the Fusion-MX sail. Apparently they make the Fusin-MX (newer and cheaper version of your Fusion-M sail) with a number of different scrim options. These run from Polyester, Pentax, Spectra, Kevlar, to Carbon with various combinationsco The one he quoted me is Polyester (Dacron). I think there are 4 layers, taffeta, scrim, mylar, taffeta. Stay away from Pentax. It stretches then shrinks back to a smaller size than it was before. My sailmaker said they lost a foot along the foot of a J-24 sail due to that. He was amazed (and pissed) that anyone would put out such a crappy fiber for sails. My experience is just with Kevlar and we loved the sails on our old boat. Do you know which type of scrim your sail has and do you have an opinion in terms of my boat? I think the idea here is not to get a sail that is too stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We want it to hold its shape but have a little give for the puffs. I really don't understand this concept of ripping up the boat or anyone making a sail that stretches. All new sails are going to be very close to the same strength and stretchability when new. If the boat were on the hard with the sails up then I'd buy into a sail tearing up the boat but water gives when you have a puff. True there is a split second of stress to the rig between the transfer of the wind to the rig to the water, but again, new sails are going to be so close in strength I can't see that as being a decision in buying. Five years from now your mylar sail will still be pulling hard and your boat will be on its feet whereas your dacron sail will be stretched out causing more heel and slowing you down. I actually think the construction is similar to the Norlam except the Norlam is 3 layers without the scrim. The other difference is that the Norlam sails are tri-radial where the Quantum get their strength from the scrim yarns. I'd imagine the triradial will be more expensive as they are way more labor intensive but I think you get a better shape from them. Paul

" I think the idea here is not to get a sail that is too stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We want it to hold its shape but have a little give for the puffs." Sheet selection and trim and steering should have significant impact on this. Much/most of the "give" from a puff should be absorbed in stretch of the sheet and/or heading up and/or easing then re-tensioning the sheet. Reggie

Paul not all boats sail there best with a large overlapping sail like a 155, remember keep it simple if your working to hard to sail a boat somethings not working right. you r boat may sail better with a 140 and be more efficent. I sail on a friends Benatau 35.He thinks that everytime you race you need to sail with the biggest sail you have we spent more time trying to overcome the effects of to much sail. I fianaly convinved him that the next race with the same wind conditions to change to the 135. The boat handled perfect the boat got in the grove faster everthing was easier and the results were better not first but second. Anyway it was a lot more fun. Dave --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

I agree. We've used a blade in 0-3 knots as it would hold its shape but as soon as the wind built (lol relatively speaking) we need a bigger sail as everyone started passing us. There is no silver bullet that works for every boat basically. Paul In a message dated 12/24/2009 12:31:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dr… [at] yahoo.com writes: Paul not all boats sail there best with a large overlapping sail like a 155, remember keep it simple if your working to hard to sail a boat somethings not working right. you r boat may sail better with a 140 and be more efficent. I sail on a friends Benatau 35.He thinks that everytime you race you need to sail with the biggest sail you have we spent more time trying to overcome the effects of to much sail. I fianaly convinved him that the next race with the same wind conditions to change to the 135. The boat handled perfect the boat got in the grove faster everthing was easier and the results were better not first but second. Anyway it was a lot more fun. Dave --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] allen.edwards@all> wrote: (http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmZzOGx1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MTYxMTU3 OA--) Switch to: _Text-Only_ (http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional) , _Daily Digest_ (http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Email Delivery: Digest) • _Unsubscribe_ (http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Cal_Boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.c om&subject=Unsubscribe) • _Terms of Use_ (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/) .

Great discussion going on here. One thing you can try in 0-3 when the wind can't fill your sail is to put everyone on the leeward side of the boat and gravity will fill the sail. We did that and a few other things once and went from so far back we needed binoculars to see the fleet to second uncorrected and first corrected. It also helps to keep the boat speed up. Some boats switched to spinnakers when the wind died on that race and the net was their boats stopped during the sail change and the spinnaker wasn't enough to get them moving again. We just sailed (very slowly) by them. On another sub thread of this thread I can point out that sometimes we have a 155 up because the wind is very light but we end up in 20+kt when the wind comes up. Do you change from a 155 that seems to be working fine although with difficulty to a 130 when the wind picks up and lose a minute or so in the change in hopes of picking it up with less leeway? Clearly the right sail is faster but is it enough faster to justify changing with 2 miles to go? We pick a sail at the start and stick with it. Others may do differently. Allen On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:50 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com> wrote: > > > I agree. We've used a blade in 0-3 knots as it would hold its shape but > as soon as the wind built (lol relatively speaking) we need a bigger sail as > everyone started passing us. > > There is no silver bullet that works for every boat basically. > > Paul > > In a message dated 12/24/2009 12:31:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dr… [at] yahoo.com writes: > > > > Paul not all boats sail there best with a large overlapping sail like a > 155, remember keep it simple if your working to hard to sail a boat > somethings not working right. you r boat may sail better with a 140 and be > more efficent. I sail on a friends Benatau 35.He thinks that everytime you > race you need to sail with the biggest sail you have we spent more time > trying to overcome the effects of to much sail. I fianaly convinved him that > the next race with the same wind conditions to change to the 135. The boat > handled perfect the boat got in the grove faster everthing was easier and > the results were better not first but second. Anyway it was a lot more fun. > > Dave > > --- On *Wed, 12/23/09, Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com>*wrote: > > [image: > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmZzOGx1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MTYxMTU3OA--]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmZzOGx1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MTYxMTU3OA--> > Switch to: Text-Only<http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>• > Unsubscribe<http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > > >

> > Paul, > > > I am understanding more what he is quoting for the Fusion-MX sail. > Apparently they make the Fusin-MX (newer and cheaper version of your > Fusion-M sail) with a number of different scrim options. These run from > Polyester, Pentax, Spectra, Kevlar, to Carbon with various combinations. > The one he quoted me is Polyester (Dacron). I think there are 4 layers, > taffeta, scrim, mylar, taffeta. > > *Stay away from Pentax. It stretches then shrinks back to a smaller size > than it was before. My sailmaker said they lost a foot along the foot of a > J-24 sail due to that. He was amazed (and pissed) that anyone would put out > such a crappy fiber for sails. My experience is just with Kevlar and we > loved the sails on our old boat.* > Great input, thanks. I will avoid pentax. It is only marginally better in its specs and if it has these kind of problems, who needs it. > > Do you know which type of scrim your sail has and do you have an opinion in > terms of my boat? I think the idea here is not to get a sail that is too > stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We want it to hold its > shape but have a little give for the puffs. > > *I really don't understand this concept of ripping up the boat or anyone > making a sail that stretches. All new sails are going to be very close to > the same strength and stretchability when new. If the boat were on the hard > with the sails up then I'd buy into a sail tearing up the boat but water > gives when you have a puff. True there is a split second of stress to the > rig between the transfer of the wind to the rig to the water, but again, new > sails are going to be so close in strength I can't see that as being a > decision in buying. Five years from now your mylar sail will still be > pulling hard and your boat will be on its feet whereas your dacron sail will > be stretched out causing more heel and slowing you down.* > The question was which scrim did your Fusion-M sails have? As far as the concept is concerned, you are pulling against the inertia of the boat. There isn't much difference between being on the hard and being in the water unless the boat is held down with chains when it is on the hard. I would guess if you put up your sails when in the boatyard, you would leave the stands. Please don't try it to prove me wrong. :-) Pretty much everyone I have talked to says sail stretch is significant in terms of stress on the boat. HiTech lines are also a big deal. Combine them and I would pull my boat apart for sure. I use standard line for my jib sheets because of this. > > I actually think the construction is similar to the Norlam except the > Norlam is 3 layers without the scrim. The other difference is that the > Norlam sails are tri-radial where the Quantum get their strength from the > scrim yarns. > > *I'd imagine the triradial will be more expensive as they are way more > labor intensive but I think you get a better shape from them.* > > *Paul* > > > > The two sails are almost the same price. The difference is that the radial cut sail does not have the strain biased scrum and is using the taffeta as the load bearing material. The Fusion-MX sail uses the scrum to carry the load so doesn't need the tri-radial cut. I don't know, that is just what I read. Is your Fusion-M sail tri radial? Allen

For the 0 to 3 I have a light #1 1.5oz on its own spectra luff. I have the 155 hanked on and if the wild builds, just raise the 155 and drop the light #1.... and stuff down the fore hatch. If the wind dies, drag it back out, raise it and drop the 155..... Allen Edwards wrote: > > > Great discussion going on here. One thing you can try in 0-3 when the > wind can't fill your sail is to put everyone on the leeward side of > the boat and gravity will fill the sail. We did that and a few other > things once and went from so far back we needed binoculars to see the > fleet to second uncorrected and first corrected. It also helps to > keep the boat speed up. Some boats switched to spinnakers when the > wind died on that race and the net was their boats stopped during the > sail change and the spinnaker wasn't enough to get them moving again. > We just sailed (very slowly) by them. > > > On another sub thread of this thread I can point out that sometimes we > have a 155 up because the wind is very light but we end up in 20+kt > when the wind comes up. Do you change from a 155 that seems to be > working fine although with difficulty to a 130 when the wind picks up > and lose a minute or so in the change in hopes of picking it up with > less leeway? Clearly the right sail is faster but is it enough faster > to justify changing with 2 miles to go? We pick a sail at the start > and stick with it. Others may do differently. > > Allen > > > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:50 AM, <pw… [at] aol.com > <mailto:pw… [at] aol.com>> wrote: > > > > I agree. We've used a blade in 0-3 knots as it would hold its > shape but as soon as the wind built (lol relatively speaking) we > need a bigger sail as everyone started passing us. > > There is no silver bullet that works for every boat basically. > > Paul > > In a message dated 12/24/2009 12:31:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dr… [at] yahoo.com <mailto:dr… [at] yahoo.com> writes: > > > > Paul not all boats sail there best with a large overlapping > sail like a 155, remember keep it simple if your working to > hard to sail a boat somethings not working right. you r boat > may sail better with a 140 and be more efficent. I sail on a > friends Benatau 35.He thinks that everytime you race you need > to sail with the biggest sail you have we spent more time > trying to overcome the effects of to much sail. I fianaly > convinved him that the next race with the same wind conditions > to change to the 135. The boat handled perfect the boat got in > the grove faster everthing was easier and the results were > better not first but second. Anyway it was a lot more fun. > > Dave > > --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Allen Edwards > <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmZzOGx1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MTYxMTU3OA-- > <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmZzOGx1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE2NDg1Njk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NTc5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2MTYxMTU3OA--> > > Switch to: Text-Only > <http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest > <http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest> > • Unsubscribe > <http://us.mc518.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com&subject=Unsubscribe> > • Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > > >

In the middle of Christmas prep while my 17mo old son is asleep. Will try to answer all questions late tonight but may be tomorrow night. MERRY CHRISMAHANNAKUS (as PC as I get ;-) ) Paul In a message dated 12/24/2009 1:23:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com writes: Paul, I am understanding more what he is quoting for the Fusion-MX sail. Apparently they make the Fusin-MX (newer and cheaper version of your Fusion-M sail) with a number of different scrim options. These run from Polyester, Pentax, Spectra, Kevlar, to Carbon with various combinationsco The one he quoted me is Polyester (Dacron). I think there are 4 layers, taffeta, scrim, mylar, taffeta. Stay away from Pentax. It stretches then shrinks back to a smaller size than it was before. My sailmaker said they lost a foot along the foot of a J-24 sail due to that. He was amazed (and pissed) that anyone would put out such a crappy fiber for sails. My experience is just with Kevlar and we loved the sails on our old boat. Great input, thanks. I will avoid pentax. It is only marginally <WBR>better in its specs and if it has these kind of problems, who need Do you know which type of scrim your sail has and do you have an opinion in terms of my boat? I think the idea here is not to get a sail that is too stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We want it to hold its shape but have a little give for the puffs. I really don't understand this concept of ripping up the boat or anyone making a sail that stretches. All new sails are going to be very close to the same strength and stretchability when new. If the boat were on the hard with the sails up then I'd buy into a sail tearing up the boat but water gives when you have a puff. True there is a split second of stress to the rig between the transfer of the wind to the rig to the water, but again, new sails are going to be so close in strength I can't see that as being a decision in buying. Five years from now your mylar sail will still be pulling hard and your boat will be on its feet whereas your dacron sail will be stretched out causing more heel and slowing you down. The question was which scrim did your Fusion-M sails have? As far as the concept is concerned, you are pulling against the inertia of the boat. There isn't much difference between being on the hard and being in the water unless the boat is held down with chains when it is on the hard. I would guess if you put up your sails when in the boatyard, you would leave the stands. Please don't try it to prove me wrong. :-) Pretty much everyone I have talked to says sail stretch is significant in terms of stress on the boat. HiTech lines are also a big deal. Combine them and I would pull my boat apart for sure. I use standard line for my jib sheets because of this. I actually think the construction is similar to the Norlam except the Norlam is 3 layers without the scrim. The other difference is that the Norlam sails are tri-radial where the Quantum get their strength from the scrim yarns. I'd imagine the triradial will be more expensive as they are way more labor intensive but I think you get a better shape from them. Paul The two sails are almost the same price. The difference is that the radial cut sail does not have the strain biased scrum and is using the taffeta as the load bearing material. The Fusion-MX sail uses the scrum to carry the load so doesn't need the tri-radial cut. I don't know, that is just what I read. Is your Fusion-M sail tri radial? Allen

To Cal Boats List: Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Best Wishes for any celebration you may undertake this season! Great Sailing in 2010! Have watched Prep and Landing four times with my son -- It's a Wonderful Life is on tonight! Great shows, good memories! Don Dutton, 1986 Cal 33-2, "Quantum Evolution" Admiral -- Eileen, Crew -- Kimmy, Jenny, and Chris "Twenty Years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." ........Mark Twain From: "pw… [at] aol.com" <pw… [at] aol.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, December 24, 2009 10:43:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] sail cloth (Paul) In the middle of Christmas prep while my 17mo old son is asleep. Will try to answer all questions late tonight but may be tomorrow night. MERRY CHRISMAHANNAKUS (as PC as I get ;-) ) Paul In a message dated 12/24/2009 1:23:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, allen.edwards@ PaloAltoPhoto. com writes: >Paul, >> >>> >>>I am understanding more what he is quoting for the Fusion-MX sail. >>> Apparently they make the Fusin-MX (newer and cheaper version of your >>> Fusion-M sail) with a number of different scrim options. These run >>> from Polyester, Pentax, Spectra, Kevlar, to Carbon with >>> various combinations . The one he quoted me is Polyester >>> (Dacron). I think there are 4 layers, taffeta, scrim, mylar, >>> taffeta. >>Stay away from Pentax. It stretches then shrinks back to >> a smaller size than it was before. My sailmaker said they lost a foot along >> the foot of a J-24 sail due to that. He was amazed (and pissed) that >> anyone would put out such a crappy fiber for sails. My experience >> is just with Kevlar and we loved the sails on our old >> boat. > > >Great input, thanks. I will avoid pentax. It is > only marginally better in its specs and if it has these kind of > problems, who needs it. > >>> >>>Do you know which type of scrim your sail has and do you have an >>> opinion in terms of my boat? I think the idea here is not to get a >>> sail that is too stiff so that we won't rip the boat up as badly. We >>> want it to hold its shape but have a little give for the >>> puffs. >>I really don't understand this concept of ripping up the boat >> or anyone making a sail that stretches. All new sails are going to be >> very close to the same strength and stretchability when new. If the >> boat were on the hard with the sails up then I'd buy into a sail tearing up >> the boat but water gives when you have a puff. True there is a split >> second of stress to the rig between the transfer of the wind to the rig to >> the water, but again, new sails are going to be so close in strength I can't >> see that as being a decision in buying. Five years from now your >> mylar sail will still be pulling hard and your boat will be on its feet >> whereas your dacron sail will be stretched out causing more heel and >> slowing you down. > > >The question was which scrim did your Fusion-M sails have? > > >As far as the concept is concerned, you are pulling against > the inertia of the boat. There isn't much difference between > being on the hard and being in the water unless the boat is held down with > chains when it is on the hard. I would guess if you put up your sails > when in the boatyard, you would leave the stands. Please don't try it to > prove me wrong. :-) Pretty much everyone I have talked to says sail > stretch is significant in terms of stress on the boat. HiTech lines are > also a big deal. Combine them and I would pull my boat apart for sure. > I use standard line for my jib sheets because of this. > > >>> >>>I actually think the construction is similar to the Norlam except the >>> Norlam is 3 layers without the scrim. The other difference is that >>> the Norlam sails are tri-radial where the Quantum get their strength from >>> the scrim yarns. >>I'd imagine the triradial will be more expensive as they are >> way more labor intensive but I think you get a better shape from >> them. >>Paul >>> >>> >The two sails are almost the same price. The difference is that the > radial cut sail does not have the strain biased scrum and is using the taffeta > as the load bearing material. The Fusion-MX sail uses the scrum to carry > the load so doesn't need the tri-radial cut. I don't know, that is just > what I read. Is your Fusion-M sail tri radial? > > > >Allen

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:38 AM, roline <ro… [at] charter.net> wrote: > > > For the 0 to 3 I have a light #1 1.5oz on its own spectra luff. I have > the 155 hanked on and if the wild builds, just raise the 155 and drop the > light #1.... and stuff down the fore hatch. If the wind dies, drag it back > out, raise it and drop the 155..... > Very interesting. I have a light #1 with a wire luff that I removed the hanks from that we free fly from the spinnaker halyard. We used that in that light air race we won. The other sail was a 90 though. That is my grand plan. This new sail I am trying to spec will be a 90 and be used in combination with a free flying 150. As a wise old salt told me 20 years ago, in the SF Bay you only need two sails, the smallest one you can get and the biggest and you might need to change from one to the other in an instant. We had a start once where there was almost no wind on the line, boats were almost drifting but just the lines length to the south, it was blowing 20+. I sail near SF Airport out of Brisbane Marina if anyone cares. Merry Christmans and Happy Holidays to all, Allen

The "OLD SALT" had good advice! Happy Holidays! Mike Farrell Cal #61 COYOTE From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, December 24, 2009 11:21:23 AM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] sail cloth (Paul) On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:38 AM, roline <ro… [at] charter.net> wrote: >For the 0 to 3 I have a light #1 1.5oz on its own spectra luff. I have the 155 hanked on and if the wild builds, just raise the 155 and drop the light #1.... and stuff down the fore hatch. If the wind dies, drag it back out, raise it and drop the 155...... Very interesting. I have a light #1 with a wire luff that I removed the hanks from that we free fly from the spinnaker halyard. We used that in that light air race we won. The other sail was a 90 though. That is my grand plan. This new sail I am trying to spec will be a 90 and be used in combination with a free flying 150. As a wise old salt told me 20 years ago, in the SF Bay you only need two sails, the smallest one you can get and the biggest and you might need to change from one to the other in an instant. We had a start once where there was almost no wind on the line, boats were almost drifting but just the lines length to the south, it was blowing 20+. I sail near SF Airport out of Brisbane Marina if anyone cares. Merry Christmans and Happy Holidays to all, Allen