Upwind in heavy weather

Hi I have a Crown 28, which is essentially a Cal29 built in North Van. In general, she sails great, and I can overtake a Hunter 32 upwind in light air. I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. She seems "solid" in waves, goes great off the wind, even close-reaching. But directly upwind, I'm lucky to get 4 knots (I can easily get over 5 upwind in lighter air). I've tried sailing her on her ear, the way the Cal25 liked, tried reefing everything, tried falling off a bit, feathering the main... Any suggestions? druid http://www.bcboatnet.org

My guess is that it is your jib. It isn't going to have an acceptable shape furled up as much as you are probably doing and not furled it is too big. Allen On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 9:01 AM, capn_druid <ls… [at] dccnet.com> wrote: > > > Hi > > I have a Crown 28, which is essentially a Cal29 built in North Van. In > general, she sails great, and I can overtake a Hunter 32 upwind in light > air. I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and > fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good > shape (not RACING shape, but decent) > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind > in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't > seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. She seems "solid" > in waves, goes great off the wind, even close-reaching. But directly upwind, > I'm lucky to get 4 knots (I can easily get over 5 upwind in lighter air). > I've tried sailing her on her ear, the way the Cal25 liked, tried reefing > everything, tried falling off a bit, feathering the main... > > Any suggestions? > > druid > http://www.bcboatnet.org > > >

smaller headsail Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ls… [at] dccnet.com Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather Hi I have a Crown 28, which is essentially a Cal29 built in North Van. In general, she sails great, and I can overtake a Hunter 32 upwind in light air. I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. She seems "solid" in waves, goes great off the wind, even close-reaching. But directly upwind, I'm lucky to get 4 knots (I can easily get over 5 upwind in lighter air). I've tried sailing her on her ear, the way the Cal25 liked, tried reefing everything, tried falling off a bit, feathering the main... Any suggestions? druid http://www.bcboatnet.org

Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, or just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed the genny down to about 100% or less, with a single reef in the main, and the main's feathered a little. Should I go to less sail, maybe 2 reefs in the main? I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it seemed to work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and this one doesn't...hmmm....) druid --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, r good <my1972ih@...> wrote: > > > smaller headsail > > Reggie > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: lsumpter@... > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather > > I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. >

Sail her on her feet with reef main if your on your ear after de powering the main and jib, and certainly not a rolled up 160. If its blowing consistently 20 to weather, a reef main and with crew on the rail with a 155 is ok up to about 25-28 max. then we switch down to a 135 if we can at 25 knots and shake the reef down wind. Mark San Pedro Cal 2-29 ----- Original Message ----- From: r good To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather smaller headsail Reggie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ls… [at] dccnet.com Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather Hi I have a Crown 28, which is essentially a Cal29 built in North Van. In general, she sails great, and I can overtake a Hunter 32 upwind in light air. I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. She seems "solid" in waves, goes great off the wind, even close-reaching. But directly upwind, I'm lucky to get 4 knots (I can easily get over 5 upwind in lighter air). I've tried sailing her on her ear, the way the Cal25 liked, tried reefing everything, tried falling off a bit, feathering the main... Any suggestions? druid http://www.bcboatnet.org __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4720 (20091227) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4720 (20091227) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

your reefed genny will not perform well upwind, particularly in heavy air. my personal recommendation would be for a 100% and then reef the main as needed to balance the helm Reggie To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com From: ls… [at] dccnet.com Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:09:14 +0000 Subject: [Cal_Boats] Re: Upwind in heavy weather Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, or just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed the genny down to about 100% or less, with a single reef in the main, and the main's feathered a little. Should I go to less sail, maybe 2 reefs in the main? I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it seemed to work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and this one doesn't...hmmm....) druid --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, r good <my1972ih@...> wrote: > > > smaller headsail > > Reggie > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > From: lsumpter@... > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather > > I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. >

I like this advice, so often people think that just because the have a furler that reefing their 150% is the the best option. yes you can make the sail smaller but you risk stretching that sail, plus the lousy shape. A 150 should be a lighter weight then the 100. The 100% would definatly be a better choice in heavy air plus you can furl it up and maintain better shape. --- On Sun, 12/27/09, r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> wrote: From: r good <my… [at] hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [Cal_Boats] Re: Upwind in heavy weather To: ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 2:57 PM your reefed genny will not perform well upwind, particularly in heavy air. my personal recommendation would be for a 100% and then reef the main as needed to balance the helm Reggie To:

Pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, like a 90. You won' t get the shape you need from the reefed sail particularly if it doesn't have the foam. You want flat sails in that much wind. You will likely want more halyard tension to keep the draft forward. Allen On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Lloyd <ls… [at] dccnet.com> wrote: > > > Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! > > Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, or > just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed the genny down to > about 100% or less, with a single reef in the main, and the main's feathered > a little. Should I go to less sail, maybe 2 reefs in the main? > > I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it seemed to > work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and this one > doesn't...hmmm....) > > druid > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, r good > <my1972ih@...> wrote: > > > > > > smaller headsail > > > > Reggie > > > > > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: lsumpter@... > > > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather > > > > > I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened > loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING > shape, but decent) > > > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind > in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't > seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. > > > > >

GOOD ADVISE____ TAKE IT!!! mike farrell Cal 20 COYOTE Hull 61 From: Allen Edwards <al… [at] PaloAltoPhoto.com> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 3:53:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cal_Boats] Re: Upwind in heavy weather Pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, like a 90. You won' t get the shape you need from the reefed sail particularly if it doesn't have the foam. You want flat sails in that much wind. You will likely want more halyard tension to keep the draft forward. Allen On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Lloyd <ls… [at] dccnet.com> wrote: >Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! > >Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, or just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed the genny down to about 100% or less, with a single reef in the main, and the main's feathered a little. Should I go to less sail, maybe 2 reefs in the main? > >I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it seemed to work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and this one doesn't...hmmm....) > >druid > > >--- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com, r good <my1972ih@...> wrote: >> >> >> smaller headsail >> >> Reggie >> >> >> >> To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com >> From: lsumpter@... > >> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 >> Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather >> >> > >I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) >> >> Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance with the Crown. >> > >

We went out when the remants of Ike blew through, 35-40 knots, reefed main and hanked on storm jib. Haven't had that much fun since the race after the goast guard closed the ocean to the MORA fleet due to a big storm and huge rollers. Allen Edwards wrote: > > > Pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, like a 90. You won' t > get the shape you need from the reefed sail particularly if it doesn't > have the foam. You want flat sails in that much wind. You will > likely want more halyard tension to keep the draft forward. > > > Allen > > > On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Lloyd <ls… [at] dccnet.com > <mailto:ls… [at] dccnet.com>> wrote: > > > > Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! > > Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small > jib, or just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed > the genny down to about 100% or less, with a single reef in the > main, and the main's feathered a little. Should I go to less sail, > maybe 2 reefs in the main? > > I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it > seemed to work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and > this one doesn't...hmmm....) > > druid > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, r good <my1972ih@...> wrote: > > > > > > smaller headsail > > > > Reggie > > > > > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: lsumpter@... > > > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather > > > > > I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and > fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in > pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) > > > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would > FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft > waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance > with the Crown. > > > > >

<GROAN> I was hoping not to do that. I have (fond?) memories of hanking on a working jib in 4ft seas, hanging on for dear life (despite the harness) and getting SOAKED. And that was back in the Day when headsails were actually hanked on. Now that I have to feed it up a narrow channel (single-handed, of course), it's hard enough at the dock... I don't suppose there's such a thing as "flying jib" - ie one that is only attached at the tack and head? Anyway, I might do that. I do remember the Cal25 had a working jib for the heavier winds - it even had REEF POINTS on the foot that actually worked pretty well. Maybe a bit of compromise: say a 110, flatter, heavier than the genny, and roll it in if I need less. I could just leave the working jib on, and in light air get off the wind a bit and pull up the spinnaker... :D druid - loves his spinnaker! Allen Edwards wrote: > > > Pull down the genny and hank on a small jib, like a 90. You won' t > get the shape you need from the reefed sail particularly if it doesn't > have the foam. You want flat sails in that much wind. You will > likely want more halyard tension to keep the draft forward. > > > Allen > > > On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Lloyd <ls… [at] dccnet.com > <mailto:ls… [at] dccnet.com>> wrote: > > > > Hi, Reggie - thanks for the input! > > Are you saying I should pull down the genny and hank on a small > jib, or just reef the genny more? In, say, 25 knots, I've reefed > the genny down to about 100% or less, with a single reef in the > main, and the main's feathered a little. Should I go to less sail, > maybe 2 reefs in the main? > > I roller-reefed the genny all the time on the Catalina 36, and it > seemed to work well (although it had a foam luff to flatten it and > this one doesn't...hmmm....) > > druid > > > > --- In Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com>, r good <my1972ih@...> wrote: > > > > > > smaller headsail > > > > Reggie > > > > > > > > To: Ca… [at] yahoogroups.com <mailto:Cal_Boats%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: lsumpter@... > > > Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:01:30 +0000 > > Subject: [Cal_Boats] Upwind in heavy weather > > > > > I have a fairly large genoa (160%?) with roller reefing and > fully-battened loose-footed main with 3 reef-points, both in > pretty good shape (not RACING shape, but decent) > > > > Now my question: Years ago, I had a Cal25, and that boat would > FLY upwind in heavy air (ie 25-35 knots in Georgia Strait, 4-6ft > waves). But I can't seem to get anywhere near that performance > with the Crown. > > > > >

> I could just leave the working jib on, and in light air get off the wind > a bit and pull up the spinnaker... :D > > druid - loves his spinnaker! > or a "flying genny"

A sailmaker told me it is highly unlikeley the wind will stay attached to agenoa any bigger than a 150, particularly one which is "not new". Perhaps they gave an advantage when sailing white sails only with downwind work, or perhaps even beam reaching. and only in moderate winds. Even low streetch fabric, imagine the stretch going on inn a 160 or 170 0r larger. Even the 150 gives up pointing ability, old or new. Reggie